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| | Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?Page 4 of 5 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) |
why not have scanner outside every brown/black persons house and scan them everytime they leave their house surely that would save the hassle of having them at the airport and inconveniencing everybody?
Your racial profiling is a bit...well...racist.
I am sure you will be aware that there are aplenty of white terrorists, are you not? | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 6:10:20 AM |
i work at the airport and ive never heard of a terrorist being stoped by a scanner anywhere at any airport in the world any of you people care to site a source where one terrorist has been caught by a scanner?
So, why don't you ask your manager to explain to you why there is such security at the airports? You sure shouldn't need reminding of (one example) the shoe bomber...wouldn't you wish he had been scanned?
trust diabolikk to come up with the islamophobic rant as per que not like him at all lol
Would you be kind enough to explain where is my post Islamophobic?
It's obvious, from your earlier post, that you do contemplate racial profiling, so, a hint of racism is there to be seen.
Now do the same and tell me where my post is Islamophobic. | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 7:38:02 AM |
why not have scanner outside every brown/black persons house and scan them everytime they leave their house surely that would save the hassle of having them at the airport and inconveniencing everybody?
Would you kindly point out anywhere in this thread where any poster has said that these scanners are only to be used on black/brown people? If not please desist from trying to hijack the thread by making it a racist issue, my point all along has been that ALL passengers should be scanned, read the thread again, you may get the jist. | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 8:53:52 AM |
I am sure you will be aware that there are aplenty of white terrorists, are you not?
There are no white race terrorist organisations that are classed as a threat to air transportation
I wouldnt mind the operator seeing my meat n two veg but i take you point about it being optional | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 9:42:51 AM | The scanners are pointless. They will do absolutely nothing to prevent a terrorist attack.
Even if the scanners are made compulsory, anyone could legally carry components and substances aboard an aircraft that are capable of being used as a very effective bomb. | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:07:26 PM |
There are no white race terrorist organisations that are classed as a threat to air transportation
Really? I must be older than I thought, 'cos I seem to remember any number of actions taken by all sorts of groups againts different peoples. What about when we used to have a spate of hijackings a while back? Admittedly it has become quiet on that front mainly because these people are either in jail or dead, mostly... The bulk of terrorist attacks in the UK have been by WHITE people, have they not? EVERY race is capable of such things, as long as the view is that one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter...
I wouldnt mind the operator seeing my meat n two veg but i take you point about it being optional
My main concern is about radiation exposure for frequent flyers...(Including crew) | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 12:15:31 PM |
I am sure you will be aware that there are aplenty of white terrorists, are you not?
damn there are i must have have missed that on your postings on here.
So, why don't you ask your manager to explain to you why there is such security at the airports? You sure shouldn't need reminding of (one example) the shoe bomber...wouldn't you wish he had been scanned
yeah that highly trained terrorist; anybody got a match lol
i have mates who work for security firms at an airport and if you think scanners alone are the answer then your living in cloud cuckoo land . ill give you an example not long ago someone got suspended for smoking a spliff under a plane he was supposed to be guarding.
and who can forget the illegal immigrants working for a cleaning company at the airport.
Would you be kind enough to explain where is my post Islamophobic
remember Rotterdam. Muslims abusing children conveniently forgetting Mr fritze some of the threads you have started need i go on? | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 3:07:09 PM | Nortyraskull, message #66
Oops! A quantam leap of an assumption, which proved to be totally incorrect
Yes, it was an assumption. I stated in my post it was an assumption. And even though it may have been wrong, I think it was a fair assumption to make considering Israel are market leaders in the world in high tech security systems and information services.
As for the rest of your post... well... all I can say is 'read a few books' because I tell you, I'll take the pepsi challenge with my 'booksmarts' over your 'internet/media smarts' any day of the week. I tell you what... I've read dozens of books but if you can point me to one site... provide me with one link where I can find a 600+ page report or article, [that you've read], written by someone who has taken years to research and write the piece and who has provided dozens of pages of notes, that detail evidence of checkable sources for the material contained within the piece... If you can do all of that - then I'll be happy to concede the point.
Now... Diabolikk - message #74
It’s not as if they haven’t tried already, it’s not as if they’re not trying now, in this very moment, it’s not as if they haven’t told us in every possible way…nope, it’s just that we don’t believe them. It’s funny how we don’t believe that someone that has given us a slap wont do it again even if they say they will do it again…
Let's look at a parallel case to compare it to shall we? In 35 years, the IRA killed 1,775 people and wounded thousands more. Now... if we forget the wounded for now and just concentrate on the death toll... that's an average of 50 corpses, EVERY year, for 35 years. So far in this 'crisis' - in the 8 years since the invasion of Afghanistan, there have been 42 deaths in this country as a result of terrorism.
So my question to you is this... given that we faced a far more implacable foe, much closer to home, who caused considerably more loss of life, [not to mention damage to lives through injury, damage to property and livelehoods, intimidation etc...] over three and a half decades... Why do we [a] live in a much heightened state of fear from a much lesser threat? And [ b] why does the governemnt need far greater powers that impinge on civil liberties of the population at large, in order to deal with this new threat than they ever needed to deal with the other, greater threat?
I mentioned civil liberties... and it's something that a lot of people cite in this debate as a reason for concern. But for me, that's not the real issue. As far as I'm concerned, we have very few [if any] REAL liberties anyway, that can't be taken away from us whenever the government feel like it. It's been the cornerstone of my fight against the state for nearly 20 years now - and for me, it's just a case of 'same sh1t, different day'. Nothing has changed. We're still only free to 'do as we're told' and we're still considered as property to the people and organisations that control our lives.
So yeah, civil liberties? Who cares? We haven't got any - that's nothing new to me.
My objections are where all this state of fear and heightened security is going to lead us and the consequences of it in years to come.
Let me explain with an example. It might be a little bit longwinded - but I promise you I'll try and keep it brief.
Back in 1993 [I think] Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat shook hands on the White House lawn in front of Clinton and formed the Oslo Accords. Which was basically an agreement that they were going to try and work out their differences peacefully.
The Israeli's were forced to the negotiating table for a number of reasons... despite the differences, the Israeli's were dependant on Palestinian labour and goods [in fact they often aggressively defended access to these resources from other Arab nations] and also, continued fighting was damaging their economy. Violence causes uncertainty and fluctuations in the market - and many other States were boycotting Israeli goods and services. Israel were never going to realise their dream of becoming the trade hub of the middle east - and so they agreed to talk about it.
It could have made all the difference... The Israeli's and Palestinians didn't like each other... and they certainly had issues to resolve... but at that point in time they were co-dependant.
Unfortunately, as we all know, it wasn't meant to be. I mean, neither side were being entirely reasonable... but given enough time they may have been forced to work it out.
However, no country exists in the world in isolation - events that transpire elsewhere often have a way of disrupting the best laid plans. And the thing that tipped the scales in this case was the collapse of the Soviet Union - followed by the harsh economic reforms of Yeltsin which caused over 1,000,000 Russian Jews to emigrate to Israel. [Israel has a policy that any Jew, from any country can return to be a citizen in Israel].
[I promise that this is all relevant and it's going somewhere... bear with me...]
So... Israel now have a HUGE population explosion in a very short period of time. If you want some idea of a perspective... Imagine that during the nineties, the entire population of Greece moved to the UK. I'd say that whatever you think regarding the rights and wrongs of Israels subsequent actions... to be fair, they were probably left with very little choice.
The results are self evident... Israel no longer had a dependency on Palestinian labour and goods, they also badly needed more land and water reserves to accomodate the huge influx of foreign Jews. Illegal settlements greatly increased - and in order to combat the increasingly desperate Palestinian response, they began the process they call 'Closure'. Encircling and imprisoning the palestinians behind the high tech security walls and military checkpoionts.
Israel also has the most tech dependant economy in the world... and the majority of that sector is counter terrorism related, providing everything from police and military training to camera recognition and terrorist profiling software and high tech security systems. All of which was developed and trialed in direct response to the troubles between the two peoples... they are now the world model in a counter terrorism state.
So... I hear you saying 'nice lecture Karma, but what the bollix does this have to do with scanners at airports?'
Well... I suppose it's a good question but the answer is very simple. The Israel/Palestine conflict is a perfect example of what happens when you have a developed nation taking what it wants from a less developed nation. What you end up with is nation like Israel, defnding themselves with high tech security and with a vested, economic interest in NOT pursuing a peaceful resolution... and you have the other side which looks like Gaza. Filled to the brim with increasingly desperate people full of hate and resentment hell bent on hurting Israeli's any way they can.
The same thing is starting to happen here with the increased legislation and CCTV and things like scanners at airports.
What we're doing is allowing the government to 'fortress up' the UK, just like in Israel - increasing the economic interest in continued war and conflict. We're no longer interested in pursuing peaceful resolutions to our disagreements with other nations. The safer we feel as a nation, the more aggressive we will become in foreign relations, just like Israel- which in turn will lead to greater danger to us, our families and our children... just like in Israel.
So... if you welcome measures like increased CCTV, scanners at airports, monitoring of correspondance, increased police powers, national ID cards and biometric passports etc... what you're saying is not 'I want to feel safe on an plane' - what you're actually saying is 'it's ok to treat other people like sh1t as long as we're protected from the consequences'. | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 3:43:14 PM |
As for the rest of your post... well... all I can say is 'read a few books' because I tell you, I'll take the pepsi challenge with my 'booksmarts' over your 'internet/media smarts' any day of the week. I tell you what... I've read dozens of books but if you can point me to one site... provide me with one link where I can find a 600+ page report or article, [that you've read], written by someone who has taken years to research and write the piece and who has provided dozens of pages of notes, that detail evidence of checkable sources for the material contained within the piece... If you can do all of that - then I'll be happy to concede the point.
There you go again with your I'm smarter than you argument, which adds a big fat zero to the debate unless you use this knowledge to prove that the aforementioned plots and atrocities never happened or do not exist other than in my "alarmist mind".
Its just more of the same old same old from you. so you've read dozens of books, well FYI I read dozens of books before I left primary school, so if your argument holds water then you have some catching up to do, but it adds no weight to my standpoint, it just says that I can read. | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 3:53:24 PM | Back to Airport Scanners:
These are weak Xrays that 'see through' your clothes and show absolutely anything you have under them. In effect, they show your naked body. They'll only be viewed discretely, for security reasons , and no images will be retained, apparently.
If you are happy to pass this scanner, you won't have to remove your shoes, belt, jewellery, etc. Hopefully, when folk come to accept these, there won't be any more huge queues to get through airport security.
While the trial is running, if you don't want to pass the scanner, you can go through the usual routine of removing your shoes, belt, watch, etc and walking through the metal detector and, maybe, having a pat-down search. | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 4:09:51 PM |
There you go again with your I'm smarter than you argument, which adds a big fat zero to the debate unless you use this knowledge to prove that the aforementioned plots and atrocities never happened or do not exist other than in my "alarmist mind".
It's not about whether or not I'm smarter than you... although you brought that up originally... it's about the fact that my sources of information are more extensive, in depth and credible than yours.
I asked you to prove me wrong by supplying just one source from the media or the internet, that you've used, that covers the topics I'm discussing/debating with the same efficacy as the literature I'm accustomed to reading.
As for adding a big fat zero to the debate... are you even reading everything else I'm writing? I'm not denying there have been incidents... what I'm saying is that the danger is greatly over-exaggerated and the measures taken to protect us from the so called 'greatest threat we face in the modern age' are completely over the top and motivated by reasons other than what you're led ot believe.
Is that so hard for you to understand?
And in any case... it's all too easy to produce reports of 'terrorists' getting arrested that hit the newspapers... what we don't usually see is reports that, more often than not, after being held for 90 days without charge they are quietly released when everyone has forgotten about them.
All people remember and react to is the 'terror threat' - what they don't get to hear about is that the threat was false. And the people concerned have been released without charge, and/or deported without fanfare. | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 4:18:08 PM |
It's not about whether or not I'm smarter than you... although you brought that up originally... it's about the fact that my sources of information are more extensive, in depth and credible than yours.
Jeez its like arguing with my kids.....YOU HAVE NOT PROVIDED ONE SINGLE SCOURCE OF INFORMATION !
I give up on you, its like pulling teeth, but you carry on with your conspiracy theory and I'll let you have credit for your last post not evolving into yet another diatribe about the Israeli's.
Laila Tov! | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 4:24:08 PM | I mentioned civil liberties... and it's something that a lot of people cite in this debate as a reason for concern. But for me, that's not the real issue. As far as I'm concerned, we have very few [if any] REAL liberties anyway, that can't be taken away from us whenever the government feel like it. It's been the cornerstone of my fight against the state for nearly 20 years now - and for me, it's just a case of 'same sh1t, different day'. Nothing has changed. We're still only free to 'do as we're told' and we're still considered as property to the people and organisations that control our lives.
I think you should try living somewhere other than the Uk before you post such nonsense, and if you have and can still type this im assuming youve never lived in in countries where posting about your lack of freedom of speech will get you jailed for 10ys let alone the other things you choose to whine about. Some people have no idea, about what it is to live under an oppressive regime or how much freedom there is in the uk, you talk complete and utter rubbish in my humble opinion. Think yourself lucky you live here and can post, (however ridiculous your posts are) and if you don't think you' re that lucky I suggest you try visiting places where such talk will get you harmed.
Reality has clearly passed some posters by. | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 4:54:13 PM |
Jeez its like arguing with my kids.....YOU HAVE NOT PROVIDED ONE SINGLE SCOURCE OF INFORMATION !
That's the point... the difference between you and I is that I don't have one single source of information.
But in any case... would it make a difference if I did provide you with sources? Would you actually avail yourself of them and make the effort to learn something? Let's give it a shot though, eh? Because you never know right?
Okay, let's see... there's Noam Chomsky, John Pilger, Naomi Klein, Michel Foucalt, George Monbiot, Arundhati Roy, Peter Calvert, Carolyn Nordstrom, Karl Popper, David Barsamian, Norman G. Finkelstein, Edward S. Herman, Walter Lippmann, Ben Bagdikian...
There are quite a few more, but the above have written an immense volume of material and should be enough to get you started.
But let's be honest... you aren't going to check out a single one of them are you? Which is a shame because their works are full of fascinating and eye opening material that will change the way you look at the world forever. They certainly did for me... I equate it to being like when I was 19, and thought I knew everything. And now that I'm older it's mildly embarrassing to recall how I little I knew compared to what I thought I knew. Same situation since I started reading books instead of websites and mainstream media. Do yourself a favour and read a few... lift the veil of ignorance.
I give up on you, its like pulling teeth, but you carry on with your conspiracy theory and I'll let you have credit for your last post not evolving into yet another diatribe about the Israeli's.
I'm sorry... but perhaps you'd like to explain to me how recounting historical fact could be in any way misconstrued as a 'diatribe'? | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 5:14:30 PM |
I think you should try living somewhere other than the Uk before you post such nonsense, and if you have and can still type this im assuming youve never lived in in countries where posting about your lack of freedom of speech will get you jailed for 10ys let alone the other things you choose to whine about. Some people have no idea, about what it is to live under an oppressive regime or how much freedom there is in the uk, you talk complete and utter rubbish in my humble opinion. Think yourself lucky you live here and can post, (however ridiculous your posts are) and if you don't think you' re that lucky I suggest you try visiting places where such talk will get you harmed.
Umm... I think you'll find that under the Terrorism Act 2006 there are quite broad measures that restrict freedom of speech. And in fact people have already been prosecuted for 'voicing their opinions' in a public domain.
And in any case, even before that, freedom to talk about it was the only freedom you had. If you actually wanted to DO something about it then you got stomped on by the police. I know this because for 20 years I've been on demo's, marches, protests and direct actions in an effort to try and protect yours, and my ever diminishing freedoms in this country. And in the process I've seen our rights stripped away, piece by piece, with ever more draconian measures. I've seen terrible things that you wouldn't believe. I've also been beaten by riot police and private security and bailiffs, I've been run down by charging columns of police horses, charged by police transit vans, arrested for no reason, I've had camera equipment [with video evidence of malpractice] confiscated[stolen] by police, I've had my freedom of movement restricted, charged by the police on ridiculous and untrue accusations, and sent to prison twice.
All of this I've seen/been through and I'll do it all again in order to protect you and your freedom, regardless of your ingratitude and short sightedness.
Reality has clearly passed some posters by.
Funny you should say that... I was just thinking the same thing... | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 5:27:52 PM | Okay, let's see... there's Noam Chomsky, John Pilger, Naomi Klein, Michel Foucalt, George Monbiot, Arundhati Roy, Peter Calvert, Carolyn Nordstrom, Karl Popper, David Barsamian, Norman G. Finkelstein, Edward S. Herman, Walter Lippmann, Ben Bagdikian...
There are quite a few more, but the above have written an immense volume of material and should be enough to get you started
Thats quite an impressive list, find those through google did you?
Ok here goes, I'm going to make this very simple for you, there IS a terrorist threat against this country, you know it, I know it, and no amount of subversive reading matter is going to make anyone believe otherwise unless you can provide a direct link to PROVE that it is a blatant lie, something I have been asking you to do for the past 24 hours or so, but it seems to be beyond your capabilities, mainly because no such evidence exists.
Now...listen very carefully, this bit is important, the authorities have introduced a peice of technology that may prevent a terrorist outrage, it may even catch a few drug runners or gun smugglers as well, I believe this to be a step forward in airport security, you believe it to be something far more sinister, but then you by your own admission have been fighting the state for 20 years so I dont expect that you will like anything that is for the good of the man in the street and pours cold water on your conspiracy theory.
I know this because for 20 years I've been on demo's, marches, protests and direct actions in an effort to try and protect yours, and my ever diminishing freedoms in this country. And in the process I've seen our rights stripped away, piece by piece, with ever more draconian measures. I've seen terrible things that you wouldn't believe. I've also been beaten by riot police and private security and bailiffs, I've been run down by charging columns of police horses, charged by police transit vans, arrested for no reason, I've had camera equipment [with video evidence of malpractice] confiscated[stolen] by police, I've had my freedom of movement restricted, charged by the police on ridiculous and untrue accusations, and sent to prison twice.
Nice to see that you did'nt squander that wonderful private education then, your family must be so proud!
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 5:45:43 PM |
the authorities have introduced a peice of technology that may prevent a terrorist outrage, it may even catch a few drug runners or gun smugglers as well, I believe this to be a step forward in airport security
And that's just about the bones of it ..
Those that oppose it have their own agenda's, on the one hand we have sinister and conspiracy's, on the other we have a new safety measure that could saves lives..
As for the right to freedom harping, what about the right to be allowed to fly safely, knowing that everything that can be done to protect us has been ..
What is the problem??
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 5:50:19 PM |
Thats quite an impressive list, find those through google did you?
What do you think?
Ok here goes, I'm going to make this very simple for you, there IS a terrorist threat against this country, you know it, I know it, and no amount of subversive reading matter is going to make anyone believe otherwise unless you can provide a direct link to PROVE that it is a blatant lie, something I have been asking you to do for the past 24 hours or so, but it seems to be beyond your capabilities, mainly because no such evidence exists.
Sigh... OK here goes, I'm going to make this very simple for you. I know nothing of the sort - we've lived under the threat of far worse terrorism for over 30 years... Now THAT was terrorism. This... is scaremongering. And if you can't see the difference then I question your judgement. And I can't believe I have to explain this to you - but books, don't have links on the internet - if you want to read the evidence... you have to read the books.
And again you accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist. Yet if you've not read all the material that I have which forms the base for my arguments then, notto put too fine a point on it, you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. To dismiss what I'm saying without first aquainting yourself of the same reference material is just plain ignorant. | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 6:01:37 PM | know this because for 20 years I've been on demo's, marches, protests and direct actions in an effort to try and protect yours, and my ever diminishing freedoms in this country.
How dare you do all these things thinking that you know whats best for me? Dont you realise that by your actions and the thinking behind your actions that YOU are taking away my freedom of speech? My freedom to say that I am contented with my lot and my freedom to say that I dont want anyone to protest, take direct action, be arrested or gaoled in my name. You are opressing me, and are no better than those you call opressors, cant you see that? Please dont take any further action on my behalf, I dont want it!
And again you accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist. Yet if you've not read all the material that I have which forms the base for my arguments then, notto put too fine a point on it, you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. To dismiss what I'm saying without first aquainting yourself of the same reference material is just plain ignorant.
Aaah so we just have to take your word for it, not quite the way a forum debate works is it? Its a bit like me trying to convince everyone that Henry the Eighth was really a woman, and I know this cos I once read a load of books you see, and you would have to read ALL of the same books as me to figure out how I arrived at that conclusion before you make another post refuting that fact, makes no sense does it? | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 6:11:05 PM |
How dare you do all these things thinking that you know whats best for me? Dont you realise that by your actions and the thinking behind your actions that YOU are taking away my freedom of speech? My freedom to say that I am contented with my lot and my freedom to say that I dont want anyone to protest, take direct action, be arrested or gaoled in my name. You are opressing me, and are no better than those you call opressors, cant you see that? Please dont take any further action on my behalf, I dont want it!
I'm taking nothing from you at all... you're perfectly free to take whatever action or hold whatever opinion you like. It's called choice - and it's your freedom to choose that people like me are trying to protect. If you want to give that away then you're no better than a slave.
Aaah so we just have to take your word for it, not quite the way a forum debate works is it?
Umm... no, you don't have to take my word for it at all... all you have to do is aquaint [u]yourself[/u] of the material I've pointed you to. | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 6:23:02 PM |
I'm taking nothing from you at all... you're perfectly free to take whatever action or hold whatever opinion you like. It's called choice - and it's your freedom to choose that people like me are trying to protect. If you want to give that away then you're no better than a slave
Its opression if you and your fellow protesters acheive change that affects my life in any way, its hypocrasy at its worse, the sooner you realise that the better. | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 6:32:51 PM |
Its opression if you and your fellow protesters acheive change that affects my life in any way, its hypocrasy at its worse, the sooner you realise that the better.
Lol... you're so full of it. | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/15/2009 9:29:26 PM | Essexash, the person who sees the image is in another part the building & has no idea to the person going though the scanner is or will ever know who is etc also the image cannot be saved to the operater only has the screen & alarm button in the control room!
& at the moment is just a trail to see if works, people going though the scanner yes have nothing to hide, plus Manchester airport are saying it will speed up check in times & getting people on to the planes!
surely a scan is better than a touch up oooppps soz pat down & rubber glove, | |
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| Airport body scanner optional, whats the point?
Posted: 10/16/2009 4:22:21 AM | Lancetyrell #81
My main concern is about radiation exposure for frequent flyers...(Including crew)
That’s a possibility but maybe it could be exaggerated like the radiations from mobile telephones. My take is that if they are trialling it, they must know the effect of it; I would be very inclined to think they do not want to be mass-sued after all.
Shiningblackstar #82
damn there are i must have have missed that on your postings on here.
No problem; that is probably because you’re the only one trying to kick this ball in a racial way. No-one else is, just you. Why? You like seeing things that way?
yeah that highly trained terrorist; anybody got a match lol
Precisely, what are you “lol”ing about? The fact that he failed because he wasn’t fast enough to trigger it? It’s sad you find this funny, I wonder how funny it was for the people on the plane.
i have mates who work for security firms at an airport and if you think scanners alone are the answer then your living in cloud cuckoo land . ill give you an example not long ago someone got suspended for smoking a spliff under a plane he was supposed to be guarding.
and who can forget the illegal immigrants working for a cleaning company at the airport.
Where do I say, indeed where does anyone say here, that “scanners alone” can offer security? Or is it just another ball you’re throwing in the middle due to lack of adequate debating skills?
Also, because some people behave wrong, does that make the tool in itself wrong? People drive bad, let’s ban cars?
remember Rotterdam. Muslims abusing children conveniently forgetting Mr fritze some of the threads you have started need i go on?
Your posting style reminds me of absks, no sense whatsoever. Go re-read that thread.
KarmaSuitsYa #83
Yes, let’s look at parallels:
In 35 years, the IRA killed 1,775 people and wounded thousands more….
In 35 years, well said…9/11 was one day only and it killed…?
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/death95w.htm
in the 8 years since the invasion of Afghanistan, there have been 42 deaths in this country as a result of terrorism.
As you know, it’s not this country alone that is affected so, yes, let’s see more parallels:
Try this: 19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals executed in the last 65 years.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/ESPYdate.pdf
or this: More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
or maybe this parallel?
Islamic terrorists murder more people everyday than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchingyear.html
It's all about Iraq, isn't it?
Yep, it's all about Iraq and...
India and the Sudan and Algeria and Afghanistan and New York and Pakistan and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and England and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Turkey and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and California and Kuwait and Virginia and Ethiopia and Iran and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Louisiana and Texas and Tanzania and Germany and Australia and Pennsylvania and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Maryland and Tajikistan and the Netherlands and Scotland and Chad and Canada and China and Nepal and the Maldives and Argentina and Mali and Angola and...
...and pretty much wherever Islamism is taken seriously:
Ask yourself, why does it seem to be a problem for all those countries?
I’ll give you a hint:
"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who
are near to you, and let them find harshness in you,
and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty"
Qur'an, Sura 9:123
So my question to you is this... given that we faced a far more implacable foe,…
No, we didn’t and by now it is clear.
Now, I agree with your point below:
I mentioned civil liberties... and it's something that a lot of people cite in this debate as a reason for concern. But for me, that's not the real issue. As far as I'm concerned, we have very few [if any] REAL liberties anyway, that can't be taken away from us whenever the government feel like it. It's been the cornerstone of my fight against the state for nearly 20 years now - and for me, it's just a case of 'same sh1t, different day'. Nothing has changed. We're still only free to 'do as we're told' and we're still considered as property to the people and organisations that control our lives.
I agree our civil liberties are being eroded, I agree we are losing our way, I agree we should be defending those hard fought liberties more but I hope you will agree that turning the other check hasn’t worked.
I also very (very) much agree that
My objections are where all this state of fear and heightened security is going to lead us and the consequences of it in years to come.
But what alternative do we have at the moment?
I don’t like it any more than you do to be subject to intrusive camera surveillance, airport crazy security etc etc but again, we are not confronted by an opponent that will fight us on a battlefield, we are against someone that will bomb innocents, that will down airplanes etc so, nasty as it is, we can only fight back.
It will cost us a lot, it is costing us a lot, it goes against the way we want to have our societies organised, I agree with you 100% there but unless we find a different and better way to fight this, this is what we must do.
Let me explain with an example. It might be a little bit longwinded - but I promise you I'll try and keep it brief.
Gee…look at my reply; don’t apologise, I am not being better than you in terms of shortness
Encircling and imprisoning the palestinians behind the high tech security walls and military checkpoionts. I was following with interest and semi-nodding in agreement until this sentence. No, here you’re wrong, the walls etc are there to stop suicide bombers. I know, I have visited Israel and seen them and seen the difference those barriers are making. It is since then that the tactics have changed and the various Jihadis launch rockets on Sderot instead. (anyway, let me continue reading…)
…they are now the world model in a counter terrorism state.
By necessity. Wouldn’t you want your government, your state, to develop every conceivable way to defend/protect you?
So... I hear you saying 'nice lecture Karma, but what the bollix does this have to do with scanners at airports?'
No..no..we may disagree on a few issues but I see you have reasoned thoughts on the subject, unlike various empty-heads pontificating over something they have no idea of. I do not agree with you but it is interesting and challenging reading.
We're no longer interested in pursuing peaceful resolutions to our disagreements with other nations. as I say above, I disagree with your Palestine/Israel assessment but this thread is about airport scanners and you know we could be talking about Israel for 3 days instead. I’ll accept that is the way you see it, I don’t but we’ll leave it at that before the moderators delete the thread.
We're no longer interested in pursuing peaceful resolutions to our disagreements with other nations.
It takes two to tango…
So... if you welcome measures like increased CCTV, scanners at airports, monitoring of correspondance, increased police powers, national ID cards and biometric passports etc... what you're saying is not 'I want to feel safe on an plane' - what you're actually saying is 'it's ok to treat other people like sh1t as long as we're protected from the consequences'.
In so many words, yes unfortunately.
Like I said already, we don’t agree but it’s been good reading you. At least, you seem to think first. I just wish other observer of these issues would too. | |
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