| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/22/2009 7:06:57 PM |
Wow...the shoe on the other foot has landed...come on Earl...get your warm and fuxzzies around this...You do not think it is fair for you to pay for something that other will benefit from? Kind of sounds like what I have been saying all along!!!!!!!!!!
Why should I pay for the likes of you? You who want to be on the federal teet? You who thinks everyone should pay for this health care sham...you who thinks it is OK to take my money and pay for you and countless others to have something...HELLO...POT CALLING KETTLE!
This is called talking out of both sides of your ass...your getting pretty good at it ol buddy!
1st we ain't old buddies, 2nd my disagreeing with you does not give you cause to be offensive, 3rd I like to feel like who ever I am communicating with is standing right in front of me.
I have worked for a living for as long as I can remember and still do, so you are not paying any thing for me. I see a junk food and drink tax to be a good across the board method of paying for the heath care that those less fortunate then I am. I am not so high and mighty that I think that those less fortunate, that children who have no choice as to where or who they are born to should not have access to quality health care. If we want to reduce the financial burden to our country we have to raise up those less fortunate to the point that they have an opportunity to earn a descent living.
I don't feel that I am any better then anyone else, I have just been a lot luckier then many others, I have worked with the migrant workers in the orange groves, lived in the slums so I know first hand what it is like and how hard it is to get back up once you are down. I made it but that does not erase the memory or make me forget, | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/22/2009 7:23:50 PM | | They call it a Sin tax for the simple reason that many people will more readily accept a new tax that they think only effects "Sinners" as no one really sees themselves as One.....people are basically self centered it is easier to sell new taxes if everyone falsely believes the new taxes will only effect the other guy...Just listen to how the Obama administration is trying to sell the HCR....it is a great example of this...... | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/22/2009 10:26:59 PM | Hmmm. I wonder how many of the people here outraged by the punitive nature of a tax on sugary soda would be FINE with government exerting greater control over the foods/drinks bought for their families by people receiving food stamps/ welfare.
I don't really believe that people are going to rush out and BECOME healthy through exercise and better attention to their larger diets due to such a tax, but I DO think it MIGHT motivate some parents to find other "at home, normal" and actually CHEAPER beverages for their children....like maybe juice, milk or (gasp) tap water. To me, KIDS will benefit the most from this and that IS a laudable goal, and only punitive on those who CONTINUE to buy this crap for their families in large quantities. There is about a teaspoon of sugar (or equivalent) in every ounce of non-diet soda. It's HORRIBLE for people. But many people don't REALLY believe this is true simply because you don't chew it. I know an extremely obese woman who "diets" all the time, but she drinks one of those 44oz Sonic sodas (close to 600 calories!!!) every day!! And guess what, so does her increasingly fat 10 year old daughter (another obese sugar addict in the making). She also struggles financially--maybe, JUST MAYBE, she can be costed out of this terrible habit of hers, or at least its DAILY realization....and thus her daughter SAVED from developing the same bad habits as her mother.
Up until last year, I was a smoker. Did I squawk at the amount of punitive taxation placed on tobacco (in most states, half or MORE of the cost of a pack of cigs)? No. And one of the factors continuing to motivate me in this is the amount of money I save month-to-month by not buying the things. And I know a lot of people who have been at least partly motivated to quit by the rapidly growing cost of the habit over the last couple of decades. I also like to drink--do I **** over the fact that there is a heavy tax on alcohol? No--it, like sugary soda, is not a NECESSITY but a LUXURY, and one (like cigarettes and, again, sugary drinks) that is (mainly) BAD for your health.
Whether it's called a "sin tax" or a "health tax" or a "better habits in the makin' tax" is irrelevant. Whether we get a government-funded health insurance option or all continue paying (or not being able to) for private insurance, we ALL pay for the extraordinary bad health of, and epidemic of obesity in, our society...I shudder to think what it's going to be like when the present generation of MAJORITY overweight kids hit their forties--diabetes epidemic anyone? | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/22/2009 11:48:33 PM |
Which way do you think the government should tackle this recession?
I favor cutting taxes and spending. I don't think the bailouts should have happened, but it's too late to put that genie back in the bottle. I've heard arguments that interests rates should be raised, but I'm not familiar enough with the ins and outs of that to have a strong opinion. I'd tentatively say that they should be raised. I also think that fractional reserve banking is a problem. It causes the issuance of credit to be too easy and is a major driving force in inflation. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/23/2009 4:02:07 AM |
They call it a Sin tax for the simple reason that many people will more readily accept a new tax that they think only effects "Sinners" as no one really sees themselves as One.....people are basically self centered it is easier to sell new taxes if everyone falsely believes the new taxes will only effect the other guy...Just listen to how the Obama administration is trying to sell the HCR....it is a great example of this......
I don't buy your explaination of why they call it but it makes no difference what they call it, Most of us endulge in junk food once in a while. A tax on junk food and drink is a fair across the board way to pay for health care, eating/drinking junk are choices so paying a tax on what you consume is a choice. Maybe taxing junk foods will make people think more about what they eat/drink | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/23/2009 4:48:04 AM | I favor cutting taxes and spending.
Well Obama gave you the tax cut so you got half of what you thought should be done. The bailouts were a necessary evil to maintain confidence in the banking system. You think your economy is bad now. It could have been much much worse.
I've heard arguments that interests rates should be raised, but I'm not familiar enough with the ins and outs of that to have a strong opinion.
I am not sure where you have heard the argument that raising interest rates would have been a good thing but I can guarantee you this, those making that argument don't have a clue. raising interest rates in effect makes money more expensive at a time when you need to get money into the system. The recession is a shrinking of your economy. People have stopped spending. No spending, no business, layoffs occur, which makes for even less spending. If you have a shrinking GDP for 3 quarters consequentially, you are in recession.
And how do you measure GDP? Here is the formula.
The most common approach to measuring and quantifying GDP is the expenditure method:
GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports - imports), or,
GDP = C + I + G + (X - M).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product
Since private consumption has fallen off the cliff and no one has any money to invest and you can't make money any cheaper since interest rates are pretty much zero the only tool left at your disposal is government spending which is what this administration is doing. And it appears to be working, slowly but still working. Judging by the stock market confidence and money is starting to flow. Hopefully jobs will follow soon.
Trust me, if the Obama administration had turned off the taps instead, it would have been a disaster many times worse than what you have seen. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/23/2009 6:27:54 AM |
Up until last year, I was a smoker. Did I squawk at the amount of punitive taxation placed on tobacco (in most states, half or MORE of the cost of a pack of cigs)? No. And one of the factors continuing to motivate me in this is the amount of money I save month-to-month by not buying the things. Thats cool that you quit but you are partly responsible for the new "Sin/Health tax" .....as the revenue stream decreases more new taxes will be created to compensate...
We do not Need the Government to Force us into any set lifestyle of their choosing through the use of Punitive taxes...
It is sad how readily people accept Government control over their lives, all the Politicians have to say is "It's for your own good" and people hop on board....with every new tax, regulation or law a right, privilege or choice is taken away...
Think about this for a minute if they are willing to tax junk food to generate revenue for health care in an attempt to allegedly make us Healthier how long before they start a mandate that requires us to exercise and eat healthy? after all they will have a vested interest in the Health Insurance Industry what better way to keep costs low then to control everyone through taxation and government mandates... | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/23/2009 6:54:30 AM |
Think about this for a minute if they are willing to tax junk food to generate revenue for health care in an attempt to allegedly make us Healthier how long before they start a mandate that requires us to exercise and eat healthy? after all they will have a vested interest in the Health Insurance Industry what better way to keep costs low then to control everyone through taxation and government mandates...
Well, one can argue against almost anything using the "domino theory" argument (ARGH IF THIS NOW WHAT NEXT???)....but at the end of the day this is about legislation, and if legislation now taxes sugary sodas that does NOT mean that there will be an open door for making people exercise. Plus, while the government DOES have the right to tax , through legislation, moving into forcing people to exercise would involve a WHOLE different (and differently constitutional) discussion.
What you are presenting here is a red herring. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/23/2009 7:38:12 PM |
Think about this for a minute if they are willing to tax junk food to generate revenue for health care in an attempt to allegedly make us Healthier how long before they start a mandate that requires us to exercise and eat healthy? after all they will have a vested interest in the Health Insurance Industry what better way to keep costs low then to control everyone through taxation and government mandates...
Ouch --- I can see it now a fine on you if you don't exercise so many days a week without an excuse from your doctor. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/24/2009 1:10:49 AM |
Well Obama gave you the tax cut so you got half of what you thought should be done. The bailouts were a necessary evil to maintain confidence in the banking system. You think your economy is bad now. It could have been much much worse.
What tax cut? If you're talking about the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 then there was very little in tax cuts. Most of the "tax cuts" are tax credits which are just another kind of government expendeture. From what I can tell there was only about $75 billion in tax cuts. Far short of the advertized $288 billion in cuts. The tax cuts are dwarfed by the increased expendetures that we're going to have to pay for. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/24/2009 5:11:02 AM |
What tax cut? If you're talking about the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 then there was very little in tax cuts. Most of the "tax cuts" are tax credits which are just another kind of government expendeture. From what I can tell there was only about $75 billion in tax cuts. Far short of the advertized $288 billion in cuts. The tax cuts are dwarfed by the increased expendetures that we're going to have to pay for
Then you should be happy President Obama wants to give 250.00 more to each senior citizen.
Are you in favor of more tax cuts for the wealthy? They have worked so well, just look at our economy now | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/24/2009 5:52:56 AM |
[The tax cuts are dwarfed by the increased expendetures that we're going to have to pay for.
Well it seems that Obama is probably going to be having problems keeping his no tax on middle class, even his advisors are saying that.
If Health Care passes his advisors have even said that taxes will have to increase due to it.
Have a feeling it's going to be an interesting year for our country tax wise. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/24/2009 6:22:19 AM |
Well it seems that Obama is probably going to be having problems keeping his no tax on middle class, even his advisors are saying that.
Which advisors? Do you have a source?
If Health Care passes his advisors have even said that taxes will have to increase due to it.
Which advisors? Do you have a source?
Have a feeling it's going to be an interesting year for our country tax wise.
You feel that the only reason it will be an interesting year is because of taxes? Or are their other factors that might make it interesting? | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/24/2009 6:41:23 AM | What tax cut? If you're talking about the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 then there was very little in tax cuts. Most of the "tax cuts" are tax credits which are just another kind of government expendeture. From what I can tell there was only about $75 billion in tax cuts. Far short of the advertized $288 billion in cuts. The tax cuts are dwarfed by the increased expendetures that we're going to have to pay for.
You know it would be nice if you would source your information, so we can judge how accurate it is or if it just something you pulled out of your butt.
http://www.slate.com/id/2232185/
"As was planned from the start, in fact, only a small portion of the $787 billion has been spent. The Council of Economic Advisers recently issued a comprehensive report on the impact of the stimulus. "As of the end of August, $151.4 billion of the original $787 billion has been outlaid or has gone to American taxpayers and businesses in the form of tax reductions," the CEA reports. That's 19 percent. If projections made for September expenditures are right, "between one-fifth and one-quarter of the total $787 billion" was spent by the beginning of October."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009#Tax_cuts
Tax cuts
Total: $288 billion
[edit] Tax cuts for individuals
Total: $237 billion
* $116 billion: New payroll tax credit of $400 per worker and $800 per couple in 2009 and 2010. Phaseout begins at $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for joint filers. [27]
* $70 billion: Alternative minimum tax: a one year increase in AMT floor to $70,950 for joint filers for 2009.[27]
* $15 billion: Expansion of child tax credit: A $1,000 credit to more families (even those that do not make enough money to pay income taxes).
* $14 billion: Expanded college credit to provide a $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition and related expenses for 2009 and 2010. The credit is phased out for couples making more than $160,000.
* $6.6 billion: Homebuyer credit: $8,000 refundable credit for all homes bought between 1/1/2009 and 12/1/2009 and repayment provision repealed for homes purchased in 2009 and held more than three years. This only applies to first-time homebuyers.[39]
* $4.7 billion: Excluding from taxation the first $2,400 a person receives in unemployment compensation benefits in 2009.
* $4.7 billion: Expanded earned income tax credit to increase the earned income tax credit — which provides money to low income workers — for families with at least three children.
* $4.3 billion: Home energy credit to provide an expanded credit to homeowners who make their homes more energy-efficient in 2009 and 2010. Homeowners could recoup 30 percent of the cost up to $1,500 of numerous projects, such as installing energy-efficient windows, doors, furnaces and air conditioners.
* $1.7 billion: for deduction of sales tax from car purchases, not interest payments phased out for incomes above $250,000.
Tax cuts for companies
Total: $51 billion
* $15 billion: Allowing companies to use current losses to offset profits made in the previous five years, instead of two, making them eligible for tax refunds.
* $13 billion: to extend tax credits for renewable energy production (until 2014).
* $11 billion: Government contractors: Repeal a law that takes effect in 2012, requiring government agencies to withhold three percent of payments to contractors to help ensure they pay their tax bills. Repealing the law would cost $11 billion over 10 years, in part because the government could not earn interest by holding the money throughout the year.
* $7 billion: Repeal bank credit: Repeal a Treasury provision that allowed firms that buy money-losing banks to use more of the losses as tax credits to offset the profits of the merged banks for tax purposes. The change would increase taxes on the merged banks by $7 billion over 10 years.
* $5 billion: Bonus depreciation which extends a provision allowing businesses buying equipment such as computers to speed up its depreciation through 2009. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/24/2009 1:09:23 PM |
Then you should be happy President Obama wants to give 250.00 more to each senior citizen.
Are you in favor of more tax cuts for the wealthy? They have worked so well, just look at our economy now
I want tax cuts for everybody, including the wealthy. I don't want Obama to give more money to senior citizens. I want him to stop taking away from people (including seniors) in the first place. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/24/2009 1:13:42 PM |
You know it would be nice if you would source your information, so we can judge how accurate it is or if it just something you pulled out of your butt.
I used the Wiki page that you quoted. Notice how most of the "tax cuts" are actually tax credits? | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:24:06 AM |
I want tax cuts for everybody, including the wealthy. I don't want Obama to give more money to senior citizens. I want him to stop taking away from people (including seniors) in the first place.
It is easy to say you want tax cuts. No one likes taxes. I don't like taxes. But I know they are necessary to pay for services I receive.
You keep saying you want to cut taxes but I have asked you before and never received an answer, what is an appropriate level of taxation? How much in taxes are you willing or think is fair to pay for what you receive?
Americans are already one of the lowest taxed nations on the planet. How low should it go and what should be cut to make it as low as you want it to be?
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/tax_tax_fre_day_bur-taxation-tax-freedom-day-burden
As for the tax credit versus tax cut, lower taxes are lower taxes in my mind. Besides that was part of a stimulus package, not the best way to do it in my mind though, I think you get more bang for your buck with government spending it. But that is another thread I think. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/26/2009 2:40:50 PM |
It is easy to say you want tax cuts. No one likes taxes. I don't like taxes. But I know they are necessary to pay for services I receive.
You keep saying you want to cut taxes but I have asked you before and never received an answer, what is an appropriate level of taxation?
I'm an anarchist. I want zero taxes and zero government.
As for the tax credit versus tax cut, lower taxes are lower taxes in my mind.
It's not lower taxes it's wealth redistribution.
Besides that was part of a stimulus package, not the best way to do it in my mind though, I think you get more bang for your buck with government spending it. But that is another thread I think.
Perhaps we should have a thread on Keynsian economics. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/26/2009 3:32:42 PM |
I'm an anarchist. I want zero taxes and zero government.
Good luck, what country are you going to move to? Since I am not aware of any country that fulfills your choice of a anarchy goverment how do you feel about the topic of this thread a sin tax
Perhaps we should have a thread on Keynsian economics.
You don't seem to favor any type of economic system so why would you want to discuss a Keynesian economy? Is a sin tax part of a Keynesian economy | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/26/2009 4:50:48 PM |
I'm an anarchist. I want zero taxes and zero government.
Then there really isn't any point in talking to you is there? Good luck in your search for your Utopia, you are going to need it. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/26/2009 6:33:42 PM |
It's not lower taxes it's wealth redistribution.
ALL taxes are wealth redistribution of one sort or another. ... this fact does not make it impossible to judge which taxes are lower, which higher, and which can best contribute to accomplishing social and/or economic goals. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/26/2009 9:20:12 PM | If the government is the answer, then it most likely was a bad question.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -
Ronald Reagan
Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a loud voice at one end and no responsibility at the other. -- Ronald Reagan | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/27/2009 7:34:26 AM |
If the government is the answer, then it most likely was a bad question.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -
Ronald Reagan
Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a loud voice at one end and no responsibility at the other. -- Ronald Reagan
And you quote from the king of failed trickle down economics, President Reagan sold the people a bill of goods that turned out bad for everyone except for his big business buddies who took the tax cuts and reinvested them in other countries, now we can buy a pair of nike sneakers made in china by chinese workers making 43 cents an hour for a mere $90 plus dollars. Yeah for President Reagan
So lets get back to the sin tax or junk food tax which will be totally voluntary by those who choose to buy junk food, it's easy if you don't want to be taxed on food and drink don't buy junk food and drink, junk food and drink lead to illnesses and diseases which drives up the cost of health care for everyone, conservatives should be jumping up and down with happiness because if a sin tax is passed the people who drive up the cost of health care will be paying for their care in advance | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:02:11 AM | Trickle down econmics vs Trickle up poverty
The people who smoke the most, and eat the wrong foods more often than not are on the lower income end level....
I will not raise taxes on anyone who makes less than 250,000.00 per year was just another lie by The Obamination... Where's Joe Wilson when we need him to point out the other lies and distortions this president is laying on the people. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:02:56 AM |
If the government is the answer, then it most likely was a bad question.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -
Ronald Reagan
Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a loud voice at one end and no responsibility at the other. -- Ronald Reagan
I am still trying to get a conservative to answer my question. How much government is enough? What is an acceptable level of taxation?
What services should the government provide and what should be done by the private sector? What would you take out of government hands now and give to the private sector. Is there anything you think the government does well? If they can put a man on the moon and build a space station why can't they manage health care?
Or are you also an anarchist? | |
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