| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:12:03 AM | I am not going to read through all the posts.
Here in Alberta We pay a sin tax for tobbacco products. A sin tax.
When it was started years ago. It was to pay for health care. Smoking releted
Do we know where this money goes? It goes into the general revenue account. Not the health care account. I have in other threads on here. Posted what the Alberta Government took in on this sin tax. How much was spent on smoking related illness.
They took in more than they spent.
So any sin tax that they may be thinking of in the USA.
It all will not be going into health care. They will put it in general revenue.
So we all know 1 thing. When a government puts on a tax on a product or something for a certin thing. They put that money in general revenue. Then they run out of money so they have to raise those taxes. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/27/2009 11:24:38 AM | I would like to see them tax everything everyone does or uses. Just to make it fair...
Here is a nice article on health care...
http://www.extremewisdom.com/?p=2140
Calling Democrats “liars” on Health care bill is 100% accurate
Linked below are 2 stories that prove conclusively that the Health Care Reforms running through Congress right now are guaranteed to slam our pocket books, hurt the economy, and cost 1000s, if not 10s of 1000s of jobs.
These articles showcase 2 stories about the ACTUAL experiences of 2 states that enacted the types of reforms working their way through Congress. Anyone who says these bills will reduce cost are either forced to ignore experience (i.e. they are stupid), or they are lying.
Lessons from the Massachusetts healthcare experiment
But insurance premiums for most residents are going up, not down. Many middle-class people who had insurance before the overhaul see little change — except that they’re spending more. They’re seeing little or no difference in the quality of their care.
In crafting their plan, Massachusetts lawmakers ducked the tough issues of cost control, including how much public and private insurers would pay physicians and hospitals. So the state still has some of the most expensive medical care in the U.S. And costs are rising faster than the national average. Far faster than wages too.
“What we did was health insurance reform, not healthcare reform,” said Massachusetts state Sen. James Eldridge, a Democrat who regrets having voted for the bill.
BTW, this site has argued all along that we are focusing too much on insurance, and not health care.
Why Health Care Is So Expensive in New York
Back in the early 1990s, New York Gov. Mario Cuomo pushed reforms aimed at fixing the state’s health-care system. Those reforms were supposed to reduce the ranks of the uninsured as well as prevent insurance companies from unfairly charging people with health problems more than others or dropping sick people from the insurance rolls. They were also supposed to spark greater insurance competition.
If that sounds like reforms being proposed in Washington today, it’s not a coincidence. One of the biggest things Mr. Cuomo did was to impose government mandates called community rating (CR) and guaranteed issue (GI). The former prevents insurers from charging people more based on their health or age, and the latter forbids denying coverage to anyone who wants to buy it. These two mandates are now a central part of reforms advancing in Congress. In New York, enacting them has been a mistake.
…
Today, New York’s private individual insurance market is among the nation’s most expensive and highly regulated. New York City residents buying private, unsubsidized individual insurance coverage pay at least $9,036 a year for individual coverage and $26,460 for family coverage. New York’s average premiums in the individual market are more than twice the national average, according to a 2007 eHealth Insurance survey.
Today, 14% of New York’s population lacks coverage, essentially the same as the national average of 15%. Partly because of the high costs of private coverage, nearly one in four New Yorkers is enrolled in Medicaid. New York’s Medicaid program is the nation’s most expensive, requiring high local and state taxes to support it.
…
In a recent study conducted for the Manhattan Institute, we estimate that market-based reforms could make insurance much more affordable, especially if the CR and GI mandates were repealed. Doing that would reduce the number of uninsured by 18% and 19%, respectively (37% combined), and would lower premiums by 42%. We also found that if the state allowed New Yorkers to buy health insurance sold in Connecticut and Pennsylvania, as much as 26% of the uninsured would purchase private policies costing 25% less than similar policies in New York. Offering mandate-lite plans to those younger than 45 could reduce the uninsured by nearly 10%, with an 18% decline in premiums.
Market reforms won’t provide affordable coverage to everyone, so we suggest creating guaranteed-access risk pools for those with chronic diseases. Currently, 35 states have such pools. They could be financed in New York with a modest assessment on policyholders in the individual insurance market of as little as $6 per member, per month.
I bolded those those last two paragraphs for a reason. They provide the best platform for actually solving the problem. The Wyden-Bennett Plan would do that on a national basis.
The left doesn’t want to solve the “health care crisis.” They want to create a massive bureaucracy to employ their minions and control your choices. If they argue that point, they are lying. It really is that simple. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/27/2009 12:07:28 PM | | What I find interesting about this whole sin tax thing is that when they first started talking health care reform we were told that in the long run the government would save money....Then one adds to the fact Obama's promises on not raising taxes. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/27/2009 12:10:51 PM |
I would like to see them tax everything everyone does or uses. Just to make it fair...
Here is a nice article on health care...
http://www.extremewisdom.com/?p=2140
Calling Democrats “liars” on Health care bill is 100% accurate
Linked below are 2 stories that prove conclusively that the Health Care Reforms running through Congress right now are guaranteed to slam our pocket books, hurt the economy, and cost 1000s, if not 10s of 1000s of jobs.
These articles showcase 2 stories about the ACTUAL experiences of 2 states that enacted the types of reforms working their way through Congress. Anyone who says these bills will reduce cost are either forced to ignore experience (i.e. they are stupid), or they are lying.
I stopped right here why go on debating with someone who is arrogant enough to call those who might disagree with him
Anyone who says these bills will reduce cost are either forced to ignore experience (i.e. they are stupid), or they are lying.
I worked for big business at major international chemical company for 28 years, as a mechanical engineer who was in charge of multi-million dollar production areas I witnessed first hand the waste whether it was through poor procedures or just not staying current with available technology and equipment. The problem was always the craftsmen or the operational people till I arrived and turned low profit low performance, poor quality areas into high profit, high quality, high performance areas. The craftsmen and operational personal always played a big role in the turn arounds.
I have no doubt that their are tremendous opportunities in health care, opportunities that will improve the quality of care while significantly reducing costs, incidently I never cut the number of employees, any reduction in manpower came from normal attrition through employees leaving or retiring.
If a public health care option does not work it won't survive, if you are right the private care you tout so highly will out perform the public option and the public option will die.
I presently utilize a government run health care program it's efficient, appointments happen on time, the health care providers from receptionists to physicians are courteous and professional, how many times have you ever went to your physician and had to wait and then be put in a room where you had to wait some more.y experience with private health care tells me it's not efficient, the quality of care is at best ok.
Keep screaming and calling others names who don't agree with you the only thing you will achieve is a sore throat, health care reform will happen in spite of how much the lobbyisy spend trying to defeat it, just the fact that they are willing to spend so much shows that there is plenty of waste. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/27/2009 12:24:47 PM | Typical Earl....
Read the post...debate the post not just a single line you find offensive. Try posting links to support your opinions...you never do..
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/27/2009 1:01:40 PM |
Typical Earl....
Read the post...debate the post not just a single line you find offensive.
Try showing a little respect to those who you disagree with and maybe then I will consider reading some thing you post,
Try posting links to support your opinions...you never do..
Pure BS "baloney sandwich" | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/30/2009 4:35:04 PM |
I can think of a whole lot of "good Christians" who would quite strongly disagree with you on that... A sure sign of a "good" Christian is one that knows that there is no such thing.
No one is "good" but God. Besides, it is not a question of our personal opinions rather what the Word of God says that we Christians follow and the Word of God does not forbid the consumption of tobacco or sugar and actually encourages the consumption of alcohol in some cases. To those who prefer to live in dry counties: right on bro, but again, that is merely preference not sound doctrine or Theology.
But, I think you are overlooking the Judaic concept of yetzer hara and the 'sinful' (against the will of God) relationship to indulgence in such things... or the Christian concept of lust (extravagance, 'luxuria') and gluttony as 'sinful' in relation to indulgence in such things... Indulging or abusing/becoming addicted or enslaved to any substance is a whole other topic, in which case even "good" goods such as bread becomes forbidden.
1 Corinthians 10:23
"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/30/2009 5:07:58 PM | Msg 101 said (So we all know 1 thing. When a government puts on a tax on a product or something for a certin thing. They put that money in general revenue. Then they run out of money so they have to raise those taxes. )
Yes I remember the Calif Lottery that was going to help all the schools. Actually I think that is how many of the state lotteries got shoved through.
Oh well so much for no more taxes if Obama gets elected. Obama seems to be finding a lot of ways to get out money and different ways such as sin tax.
When will we ever learn to properly vet a candidate when they say they can handle a job.
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/30/2009 5:22:51 PM |
So we all know 1 thing. When a government puts on a tax on a product or something for a certin thing. They put that money in general revenue. Then they run out of money so they have to raise those taxes.
I see you are back to that "we" word again, because you think that I know or someone else knows does not make it a fact what makes it a fact is a credible link. Do you have one? | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:09:25 AM |
I will not raise taxes on anyone who makes less than 250,000.00 per year was just another lie by The Obamination... Where's Joe Wilson when we need him to point out the other lies and distortions this president is laying on the people.
This is going to be interesting in the next couple of years as we see our taxes go up for all the money Obama has spent and is planning on spending with this Health Care Mess.
Are we going to just have differenent names for ways to garner more taxes out of the American public?
As I have said before what happened to all the tax cuts Obama promised, or was that just income taxes.
Maybe they will change the name of "Income Tax" just like Nancy has been suggesting a name change on "Public Option". This way Obama can be true to his promise of cuts in income tax. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:57:47 PM |
These articles showcase 2 stories about the ACTUAL experiences of 2 states that enacted the types of reforms working their way through Congress. Anyone who says these bills will reduce cost are either forced to ignore experience (i.e. they are stupid), or they are lying.
Would I be branded a raving conspiracy theorist if I claim that this is intentional? The government is doing a lot of things that are guaranteed to raise costs. We see that as health care costs increase more and more people clamor for a socialized system (like those found in Europe and Canada). This is typical Problem-Reaction-Solution. The government creates a problem (or takes advantage of one that arises), manufactures a reaction through their propaganda arm, the free press, and then offers itself as the solution. When their reforms fail the cycle continues. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/3/2009 11:41:55 AM | Sin Tax; Do people really want to go down that road ? Sugar is bad ? Glucose is the fuel the human brain runs on. Sort of sounds like yet another method of persecuting the overweight or the obese, guess smokers have become old news, need a new group to inhabit the bottom of the pecking order. How about we tax the overweight ten dollars per pound over the limit on a monthly basis or since CO2 is now considered a pollutant and we all exhale it we could tax everyone a few cents for every exhalation.
Here's another idea to fund healthcare or the uninsured. It's called Charity and it's still tax deductable. With this concept every compassionate person who feels strongly about the unfortunate could do something novel and Donate. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/3/2009 1:08:52 PM | .
Here's another idea to fund healthcare or the uninsured. It's called Charity and it's still tax deductable. With this concept every compassionate person who feels strongly about the unfortunate could do something novel and Donate.
That is a great Idea... I think I will send my $$$ to Bennie Hinn.
Better than a clinic....
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/3/2009 6:27:45 PM |
Here's another idea to fund healthcare or the uninsured. It's called Charity and it's still tax deductable. With this concept every compassionate person who feels strongly about the unfortunate could do something novel and Donate.
We have been donating for years our donations go to the Health Care CEO's their board members and their stock holders.
I can understand why some may be against a sin tax, lets for argument's sake it is passed and becomes a reality, maybe some will think about shoveling junk food and drink down their throats and into the throats of their children, heaven forbid we become a more health conscious society, imagine what would happen if the cancer rate was cut in half or if diabetes or heart disease rates were drastically reduced. Think of the impact it would have on those who make a living off of illness and disease.
We are a misery based society existing off of what we take in as a result of pain and suffering, if illness, disease and war were eliminated what would people do for a living could we survive as a nation?
For years we stood idly by as the tobacco companies lured our children into addiction with some screaming that tobacco use was a choice even though the average age for beginning smokers was 12, finally we taxed tobacco enough that to discourage some from smoking. The sin tax allows people to choose whether they want to indulge in junk food and drinks, it's still a choice but the sin tax is a start, a way to discourage the use of junk food and drink. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:51:48 AM | EarlzP; Like our tax dollars don't go to fat cat politicans and their buddies. You discount the good charitable organizations do.
Somehow I doubt we'll ever be taxed into health.
A sin tax 'allows' people to 'choose' ? You think people do not make a choice at the market already ? Do you really believe government should be telling us what to eat and drink ? What do you imagine would happen to a society that has it's ability to make a choice eliminated. Do we then become perpetual children dependent on the parent government to take care of us ? | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:37:48 AM | A sin tax 'allows' people to 'choose' ? You think people do not make a choice at the market already ? Do you really believe government should be telling us what to eat and drink ? What do you imagine would happen to a society that has it's ability to make a choice eliminated. Do we then become perpetual children dependent on the parent government to take care of us ?
That is exactly what the liberals want! They want complete government control of every aspect of our lives. What we eat,drink and even think. They want the government to be their new mommy and daddy. They do not want to think for themselves. They believe they know all the answers ...they want to tell you what is BEST for you based on THEIR far left loony ideals. How to raise your family...what they are taught in schools.
They want your money to pay for others who have less than you do. They want to PUNISH you for being successful by redistributing the wealth. Tell me how this is not socialism? | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/4/2009 8:53:32 AM |
That is exactly what the liberals want! They want complete government control of every aspect of our lives. What we eat,drink and even think. They want the government to be their new mommy and daddy. They do not want to think for themselves. They believe they know all the answers ...they want to tell you what is BEST for you based on THEIR far left loony ideals. How to raise your family...what they are taught in schools.
They want your money to pay for others who have less than you do. They want to PUNISH you for being successful by redistributing the wealth. Tell me how this is not socialism?
You tell me how it is not socialism if I have to pay for your choices, you decide what goes into your mouth not me, why should I pay inflated insurance rates for your poor unhealthy choices of food and drink, I don't want to be your mommy and daddy pay your own way if you want to eat junk pay up front for the health care you will need. No one is forcing you to do any thing it's your choice what you eat and drink. You want it both ways socialism is great as long as it benefits you | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:19:51 PM | Why should I pay for anyone other than me Earl? Why should I be FORCED to pay your health care or anyone else's? Why should I be forced to pay higher taxes so you can have something? Why should the opt out option make those states that do opt out...still pay?
Why do the liberals think that those of us who want to take care of ourselves, not give our hard earned money away are cold and unfeeling? I for one am unfeeling when it comes to people who think I should pay for them to have anything. There are only three sets of people who deserve and need FREE health care. 1. Children under 18. 2 Seniors. 3 Military vets. The rest of you moochers should man up...get what YOU pay for and stop the bullshit wealth redistribution dreams of the socialist a$$hat in office! | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:32:03 PM |
Why should I pay for anyone other than me Earl? Why should I be FORCED to pay your health care or anyone else's? Why should I be forced to pay higher taxes so you can have something? Why should the opt out option make those states that do opt out...still pay?
Why do the liberals think that those of us who want to take care of ourselves, not give our hard earned money away are cold and unfeeling? I for one am unfeeling when it comes to people who think I should pay for them to have anything. There are only three sets of people who deserve and need FREE health care. 1. Children under 18. 2 Seniors. 3 Military vets. The rest of you moochers should man up...get what YOU pay for and stop the bullshit wealth redistribution dreams of the socialist a$$hat in office!
I asked you why I should have to pay for your choices and you skirted the question so I will ask you again and once again you make the debate personal
The rest of you moochers should man up
okay again,Please tell me how it is not socialism if I have to pay for your choices, you decide what goes into your mouth not me, why should I pay inflated insurance rates for your poor unhealthy choices of food and drink, I don't want to be your mommy and daddy pay your own way if you want to eat junk pay up front for the health care you will need. No one is forcing you to do any thing it's your choice what you eat and drink. You want it both ways socialism is great as long as it benefits you. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:40:33 PM |
What??????
"pay your own way if you want to eat junk..."
But I thought you were in favor of HCR???
You want "Joe average guy" to pay a sin tax on his twinkie, so that it can fund public Health Care???
Your right I am all about fairness if you want to eat and drink junk foods have at it just pay ahead for the health care you will need | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/4/2009 8:14:26 PM |
Your right I am all about fairness if you want to eat and drink junk foods have at it just pay ahead for the health care you will need
Ok Earl. If we have public health care, what will be the incentive to be healthy?
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that we should have a sin tax.......stating that your reasoning is about fairness.
Are you kidding??
fairness?? now that is funny. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/4/2009 8:36:12 PM | | If it is about fairness why will people with preexisting conditions be covered immediately without paying into the system while the rest have to wait til 2013....and for that matter is it fair that those who use little or no services will have to pay as much or more than those who use hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of goods and services per year? | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/4/2009 9:20:51 PM | I'm still trying to figure out what happened to the "No New Taxes For the Midle Guys" message of Obama's last year.
We are not even into Obama's first year and Obama and his elected Democrats are already talking about ways to pay for all the money they have spend and will spend.
Just because its not called Income Tax, its supposed to be ok. Seems that by putting another label on it its ok to have new taxes under Obama. | |
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| Sin Tax to help fund Healthcare costs?
Posted: 11/4/2009 11:42:58 PM |
Ok Earl. If we have public health care, what will be the incentive to be healthy?
The incentive to be healthy? How about waking up each morning, try being sick fpor a while you will get a much better idea of what good health means
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that we should have a sin tax.......stating that your reasoning is about fairness.
Are you kidding??
No, if you want to endulge in junk food or drink that leads to health problems pay for it, I didn't say if you are a rich republican or poor democrat pay a sin tax I said if you want to eat and drink junk pay for the health care you will need up front
fairness?? now that is funny.
What could be fairer then being able to make a choice about whether you pay a tax | |
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