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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/18/2009 12:42:37 PM | and I tend to be a content single person
So am I. So are a lot of other people.
But to state it as an implication that people who "are" actively seeking, and wanting a partner, are NOT content, is fallacious.
That's why we have friends, pets. Giving is healthy.
We all want "objects of affections"(sic) to direct our affections towards.
Tho there are women I know who think finding a guy is a major priority, most of us are cool with life regardless of if we have a date or not. Most of us will only date if/when we meet a guy we like. Dating is incidental, not a mission. I've made no bones about the fact that I feel dating should be something to do only if it enhances an already happy single life - and some do make it out to be the thing they think will MAKE them happy.
Meeting a nice guy is common. Meeting a nice guy you want to know more about is a lot less common...
You forget to mention that a lot of women bring a whole lot less to the table than they think they do.
If you made your statements gender neutral, then we'd all agree. But you constantly bias it that men are starving for women, and women are "meh"....
But people also tend to take my post to extremes and read things I didn't say into them.
Really? V V V
My main point was that to assume that many women will go out with a man they have no interest in as a friend or possible lover for months simply to eat without paying is not real likely. Most women aren't that hungry. That's all I meant.
Pure hyperbole.
Your strawman that women "aren't that hungry" implies something that is not even within the realm of discussion.
It also implies that most men are that desperate and coercive towards women, which would mean there are an awful lot of losers out there.
So you're sure these women aren't wondering if they should give a guy they sort of like a chance?
If that's the case, she's being completely selfish and self serving if she doesn't spring for her cost of the date. She's already going in with veto power. It's not an equal opportunity for the man. If it takes dinner and drinks to get her to agree, she has accepted being remunerated for her time.
She is putting a price on her "reconsideration". The guy "bought" a second chance.
Whether or not the guy is a "volunteer" doesn't change what "she" is doing.
That's the nature of co-dependancy.
Just because someone is a doormat, doesn't absolve the one who's "walking all over them", of exploiting their weakness.
I agree. In fact I think MALE or FEMALE many of us aren't as great as we think and need to drop the entitlement thing.
I already got that memo, but many don't seem to have.
I've said many times that I think there are some people of BOTH SEXES (had to use caps, lest it be missed) that are evil and out for no good....
I've shown where I don't think you are as impartial as you claim.
I happen to like many of your posts. I also happen to feel that you and I are much more similar than dissimilar. But I see many times where you assign gender neutral behaviour that favours women, and assign ones that cast negative aspersions of men. | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/18/2009 3:54:02 PM |
So am I. So are a lot of other people.
But to state it as an implication that people who "are" actively seeking, and wanting a partner, are NOT content, is fallacious.
That's why we have friends, pets. Giving is healthy.
We all want "objects of affections"(sic) to direct our affections towards.
Most people by definition who want more than they currently have aren't content completely - at least not in the arena they are seeking. I never see dating as a controlled thing, so to me seeking someone can be spinning your wheels when it's only going to happen when it does. Seeking education? Controllable. Seeking a job? Controllable (usually, not always in an economy like this, but generally). But seeking a date, a friend, and sometimes even a pet takes two sides, and we can't always crack the safe the way we want unless someone shows up with the part of the combination that's missing. I'm sort of literal, so to me being open and making sure you're happy with you is all you can do. The rest ain't up to you.
I may one day want a degree, a condo and a rottweiller, but I'm certainly not living a desperate sad life because I don't have those things now.
Wanting is cool - as long as not getting doesn't derail your life. And again I said SOME people make it out to be a state of imcompleteness to not have a date/partner/whatever. I addressed those poeple, therefore I didn't state all that are looking and or wanting are not content.
You forget to mention that a lot of women bring a whole lot less to the table than they think they do.
If you made your statements gender neutral, then we'd all agree. But you constantly bias it that men are starving for women, and women are "meh"....
We don't care what we bring to the table because we're not making deals. If we like what some guy brings to the table and he's cool with what we got - great. If not, no biggie. We know that it'd be a green light on both sides if it's a match, whether fair or not. If nothing matches, nothing matches. It's not reason to stop living.
In my experience, based on friends and a lot of posts here, men are more concerned with pairing off - doesn't mean women aren't. Perhaps less women talk about it. In this thread, the OP is talking about spending money to date and eventually expecting sex to be a part of the process. If he (or a lot of men in other threads) were "meh", they wouldn't be asking. I see threads here about men all worked up that women have lives and don't have time to date. Why would a man who could care either way if he finds anyone even notice what type of schedules women have? He'd have to be too buried in his own life to see it.
It also implies that most men are that desperate and coercive towards women, which would mean there are an awful lot of losers out there.
Some men are coercive, some desperate, some both. Some women take advantage, some are desperate and would rather meet a complete stranger. Life's full of all kinds. If it wasn't there to take advantage of, it wouldn't happen.
If that's the case, she's being completely selfish and self serving if she doesn't spring for her cost of the date. She's already going in with veto power. It's not an equal opportunity for the man. If it takes dinner and drinks to get her to agree, she has accepted being remunerated for her time.
I agree - but these men cannot then say when she decides it's a no that she's a terrible person and he didn't see it coming, or that she went JUST for the dinner.
She is putting a price on her "reconsideration". The guy "bought" a second chance.
He may not have had to, but did anyway.
Whether or not the guy is a "volunteer" doesn't change what "she" is doing.
That's the nature of co-dependancy.
Just because someone is a doormat, doesn't absolve the one who's "walking all over them", of exploiting their weakness.
Yes, so they're both wrong - which is kind of a wash. I assume we agree there then and have essentially the same point. In my case I tend to put more blame on the person who allowed it though, at least the second time it happens in life, because you can't make people who are predators stop; you have to change what you do to attract em. I'd like to stop all car theives from stealing cars and say people that leave their engines running are terrible victims, but at some point you have to realize that the car owners sort of bring in on themselves.
I've shown where I don't think you are as impartial as you claim.
I happen to like many of your posts. I also happen to feel that you and I are much more similar than dissimilar. But I see many times where you assign gender neutral behaviour that favours women, and assign ones that cast negative aspersions of men.
You may be reading the wrong posts then. I have defended men and women depending on the post, the topic, etc.
For example, I don't blame men for sleeping with women and never calling them again after one date or one night. I blame women for going ahead with it and thinking it would lead to another date or call. I tend not to side with someone who offers something to someone else with an expectation they can't forsee going in their favor. I also know there are many men who sleep with women expecting it to go somewhere and it doesn't.
I also think women should always cover their own expenses, so things like this don't end up in a thread. I actually believe that men and women should all be accountable for their space in the world. If we all took care of at least our own business, less misunderstanding would occur, including threads like this. | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/18/2009 7:16:30 PM |
I never see dating as a controlled thing, so to me seeking someone can be spinning your wheels when it's only going to happen when it does. Seeking education? Controllable. Seeking a job? Controllable (usually, not always in an economy like this, but generally). But seeking a date, a friend, and sometimes even a pet takes two sides, and we can't always crack the safe the way we want unless someone shows up with the part of the combination that's missing. I'm sort of literal, so to me being open and making sure you're happy with you is all you can do. The rest ain't up to you.
Precisely. Being single is not a disease or defect. A man and woman who want to be together because they want to be together, is a wonderful thing. To be with a member of the opposite sex primarily because of other people's opinions or thoughts about you is beyond sad.
It's not an equal opportunity for the man. If it takes dinner and drinks to get her to agree, she has accepted being remunerated for her time.
And if I insist on dutch, or paying my own way, in MY real world,men are APPALLED to hear that other men think that way. The argument that 'dating' is a quaint custom from the '50s,no longer relevant, is lost on them. And no, I've had very few experiences- in my whole damn life!- where men thought buying me dinner entitled them to sex.
In this thread, the OP is talking about spending money to date and eventually expecting sex to be a part of the process. If he (or a lot of men in other threads) were "meh", they wouldn't be asking. I see threads here about men all worked up that women have lives and don't have time to date. Why would a man who could care either way if he finds anyone even notice what type of schedules women have? He'd have to be too buried in his own life to see it.
Now that one I can relate to. What do men think? That we just sit in our houses by our computers and telephones,waiting to be asked out on a date?
because you can't make people who are predators stop; you have to change what you do to attract em Yep. And anybody who seems to be highly anxious to get dates, to get into a relationship,is going to attract them. That goes for BOTH genders.
I don't blame men for sleeping with women and never calling them again after one date or one night. I blame women for going ahead with it and thinking it would lead to another date or call I blame 'em both. I'm an equal opportunity blamethrower. He's to blame for being a d*ckruled opportunist and she's to blame for being an idiot. If you as a man are targeting women to date based on your perception of them being 'easy', rather than genuine interest, you are a disgrace to manhood in general and yourself especially. If you as a woman, have sex with your date based on a belief that it will lead to more dating and a relationship,rather than having sex because you want to have sex with the guy, the more fool you. There's nothing whatsoever wrong with 2 people who want to have sex, doing exactly that,within the bounds of responsibility and honor. And both men and women have every right to set their own standards for when sex occurs. Sex should be a gift a man and woman give each other, NOT 'payment' or "bait" or "conquest".
Cindy O | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/19/2009 1:56:35 AM | It's interesting to note that in the nearly 300 posts in this thread, how many variations there are on what people believe constitutes the role of sex in a healthy relationship. And when. And If. And in some cases, what the consequenses will be if they DON'T.
I'm thankful that the brief mentions of race and rape, died out quickly in this thread. Race and rape are 2 subjects that I do not like addressing in a forum. I'll leave that to someone who believes that they are more inclined and/or qualified.
This thread is a continuing, and ongoing challenging experience for me, because to express one's self, and to avoid being misinterpreted as having said something else, can sometimes be a challenge.
One thing for sure, there's no one sure fire way to place how people view and seek sex and relationships, into a ' one size fits all ' mold that will work for everyone. | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/19/2009 6:24:13 AM |
I blame 'em both. I'm an equal opportunity blamethrower. He's to blame for being a d*ckruled opportunist and she's to blame for being an idiot
Now this is the attitude I think it's wrong and very misinformed. what a lot a people don't realise is that a guy will leave and never return if the sex was bad and its not because that's the only thing he wanted, I know I would leave | |
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PiggyT
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Joined: 9/14/2009
Msg: 282 | |
| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/19/2009 6:31:32 AM | I think we should do it like they do it on the Discovery channel!
You and me baby ain't nothin but mammals! | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/19/2009 7:27:23 AM | OINK OINK...OINK OINK...
I here you loud and clear. By the way... I think I may have actually met the almost perfect boyfriend this weekend! I was dating a guy that dumped me for not wanting to drive two hours to have sex... How about them apples... Serves me right! Well in that process I decided to meet a guy that has been e-mailing me and calling me ( for quite a while) from off this site. He was on his way to VA. and drove about an hour out of his way to where I live just to meet me! Talk about just knowing... talk about Karma... We clicked like we've known each other for ever. We have so much in common it's almost creepy. I said I wouldn't stay single long... Man there is a lot of SPARK and CHEMISTRY!
He has potential for the long haul and I'll keep everyone posted. We can't wait to jump each others bones!!! WOO HOO!!! | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/19/2009 7:41:04 AM | Margo, Congratulations!!
I would love to hear about your success with this man! I'm sure that others would as well.
I like the way that you said it..... " WE can't wait to jump each other's bones...."
Margo, with all the things that you and this man have in common, and the way that you just feel that you KNOW... You just MIGHT!
And if this sexual encounter measures on the Richter Scale, at least I'll know why the Mountains in western N C are rumbling! | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/19/2009 9:50:54 AM | Now this is the attitude I think it's wrong and very misinformed. what a lot a people don't realise is that a guy will leave and never return if the sex was bad and its not because that's the only thing he wanted, I know I would leave
So will women. I'm anything BUT misinformed. I'm also aware that there are a lot of men out there acting like they want a serious relationship,when all they REALLY want is to get laid. Even if the sex is good, they'll backpedal/not contact/avoid...until Willy gets rambunctious again. Oh, believe me, I know this firsthand, because I WAS that fool for awhile. But I figured it out pretty quick. Had I not from time to time met decent men with honorable intentions,even if there was no chemistry,or men who were upfront and honest about looking for FwB, I would have abandoned online dating sites long ago. As it is right now, I place as much, if not more,reliance that the 2nd love of my life( if that's meant to be) will come from real time activities.
However, given the many threads in these forums, there must be TONS of women who can't boink worth diddly squat. I'm having trouble believing that sexual incompetence among adult women is THAT prevalent. But I don't date women so I guess I can't say for sure.
And I might add that with 2 people who have genuine feelings for each other,those genuine feelings add a dimension that isn't generally present in a sport f*cking encounter. But those feelings don't generally become fully developed by the 3rd date.
But I stand behind what I said. A lot of women are good at sex but very naive, they think that having sex very quickly will help foster a relationship. And there are a lot of men who love being single and figure it's their perfect right to take advantage of a woman who hasn't yet learned how Adventures in Modern Dating really works.
I'm not advocating that women withold sex as a means to leverage a "relationship". A relationship that has to be gained by "leverage" would seem pretty insecure and unsatisfying to me. But I think women have to realize that a man's d*ck can be capable of running independently of his heart, can over ride his brain, or cause his brain to be calculating as to how best to get a sexual encounter with minimum effort. Thank Heaven that many of them are better men than that!
But sister, if you decide to boink a guy,do it because you want to. Don't get all weepy and devastated if he subsequently vanishes. And if he contacts you again in a month or so, rest assured that you are a competent boinker. My recommendation would be that you save that competency for a man that really matters in your life, be it a significant other, friend with benefts, ongoing lover. But it's your love life, conduct it however you see fit WITHOUT WHINGING.
Cindy O | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/19/2009 11:23:30 AM | There are lots of incompetent people out there ladyc that think they are all that in bed when they are really bad.
For me whether you have sex with me on the first date, 5th date or 500th date the result will be the same.. if the sex is bad I will leave because that part needs to be working 100% or the other parts aren't going to matter to me and I will be gone and that is the same for lots of guys. | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/19/2009 11:35:43 AM |
For me whether you have sex with me on the first date, 5th date or 500th date the result will be the same.. if the sex is bad I will leave because that part needs to be working 100% or the other parts aren't going to matter to me and I will be gone and that is the same for lots of guys.
Whenever I read these types of statements, I am always amazed at how seemingly oblivious those making these statements are to their input of the sexual encounter in regards to the outcome. Maybe its an ego thing, because if I had a lot of "bad" experiences, I would probably be asking what part I played in that vs constantly blaming the other party involved, especially if it happened more often than not. | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/19/2009 11:37:23 AM | Indeed, that is why it is called sex appeal. But in polite society, we don't want to admit ONE of the motivations for the "wine & dine" which is of course SEX! LOL The only place we admit such things is on this peculiar invention called the internet...
I have yet to see a guy ask the waiter for the check saying "...and can you make it fast, I'm looking to get laid a.s.ap."  | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/19/2009 11:49:41 AM |
There are lots of incompetent people out there ladyc that think they are all that in bed when they are really bad.
Dude, I KNOW that. Men are every bit as guilty of it,as women are. In fact they are probably worse. But as a general rule, if a guy is absolutely lousy in bed, there are 'tells'. And if a guy is a good man and we care about each other, we can MAKE sex be a pleasurable and fullfilling experience even if he's NOT Joe Stud. All too often it's also been my experience that a man who is an awesome sexual performer is not always compatible enough to make him serious relationship material. I'm striving for BALANCE. My primary requirement is that we connect on multiple levels, and it's entirely possible that an exceptionally STRONG connection in one aspect could buy a little slack for another aspect where the connection wasn't quite as strong. If you and 'lots of other guys" are dipping your wicks in woman after woman and rejecting them for bad sex, maybe the sex is bad because you and "lots of other guys" are unsatisfying?
Hey, if lots of guys pick their women with their d*cks instead of their brains, it isn't news to me. I'd say 90% of the men who left after they had sex with me were back before long, because ALL THEY WANTED WAS SEX. They didn't want to date, or be friends or have a relationship with ANY woman, they wanted to be single men who'd figured out a way to get nookie when they thought they needed it. Unfortunately, most of them sucked in bed, so why in the HELL would I bother?
Cindy O | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/19/2009 1:01:32 PM |
Sex is spontanious, almost a reflex action. One thing leads to the other until the point where you two are groping and grasping for air.
Dont make it a goal but a process that will mark the official commencement of the r/ship. it is just as important as other times you 2 spend together.
Doggone it, titosmith!
Just about the time I start thinking you are just another dating site dumbass, you come out with something as true, as profound, as logical and sensible as this. And excellent excellent advise for those who are truly seeking to develop a relationship.
But since there are still a fair amount of men for whom the goal is getting laid,with as little expenditure and effort as possible, I'm sure you'll get arguments from some...that 'bad sex' is such a common occurrence, that the "test drive" should happen ASAP. God forbid that a woman might be loving, kind, or even just a fun person to be around,gotta make sure that men don't risk getting involved in a relationship that has bad sex. I know I've made comments myself about men who were marginal sexual performers. "Bad sex" is probably relevant if you are looking for a booty call, But when 2 people love each other and want to please each other, I don't think "bad sex" applies. It's sorta like eating the cake batter before it goes in the oven and calling it a bad cake.
Cindy O | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/19/2009 1:40:18 PM |
Dont make it a goal but a process that will mark the official commencement of the r/ship. it is just as important as other times you 2 spend together.
Tito....Can I retract my previous knee jerk reaction? Because this is one of the smartest things I’ve heard you say.  | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:40:00 PM |
But when 2 people love each other and want to please each other, I don't think "bad sex" applies
I disagree with that, I was in a loving relationship for over a year. I loved my SO so I stayed longer then I should of. My SO was very bad at sex so I had to end it but it was hard because I was attached to this person.
So now I am one of those test drive guys. I wont get myself attached to anyone until I know everything is gonna click which for me means things need to be done earlier on and that means within a month. | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/20/2009 4:07:26 AM | " So now I am one of those test drive guys. I wont get myself attached to anyone until I know everything is gonna click which for me means things need to be done earlier on and that means within a month. "
I happen to agree with you. I like knowing early on if MOST everything is going to connect. I don't waste my time with someone who has major issues.
There are so many selfish people out there. My experience has been that a taker is a taker; on the 1 st date, the 2 nd year, and so on. My cure for that ? NEXT !
I'm a giver by nature. So, to me, it's about finding another giver that I'm highly compatible with.
One area that I disagree with you.... I believe that an otherwise wonderful giving, loving woman who has poor sexual skills, can be taught how incredible sex can be, for her, and how she can better please me. And I believe that similar men can be taught the same concepts and skills.
The biggest sex organ is in the BRAIN. Most people can drive. Some do it well. And for the cause of public welfare, some drivers should announce what day they will be on the road.
Can poor lovers and poor drivers be taught better sexual skills ? In most cases, I say YES. But only if they want to learn. | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/20/2009 6:59:43 AM | Gone to the beach~ At my age I'm just tired of the teaching. I need a partner already trained. There is nothing more boring to me than vanilla sex. That's when I say NEXT!
No matter how great a guy is or how well we click there is no substitute for bedroom skills when I am seeking a LTR. It's an important quality. | |
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| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/20/2009 9:56:37 AM | Gone to the beach~ At my age I'm just tired of the teaching. I need a partner already trained. There is nothing more boring to me than vanilla sex. That's when I say NEXT!
No matter how great a guy is or how well we click there is no substitute for bedroom skills when I am seeking a LTR. It's an important quality.
If that's the case Margo, here at POF vanilla, is pretty much the norm with most men in the vanilla dating sites. If they have been asleep in a marriage for years they probably haven't done much learning or exploration either and their idea of kink is a set of cheap fuzzy handcuffs, not to mention they don't know which of you they should go on. Knowledge is sexy in a man - I want him to teach me, not the other way around.
There are other sites that are more specific almost like a menu when it comes to that adventure. Might as well save time and be upfront about it - you can get right to it without being judged. Vanillas don't understand and do judge you - men and women alike.
I've seen guys in the forum here even appalled that women use toys.
I am here because I'm willing to consider a vanilla ONLY for LTR if their interest correlate and they are open minded to learn, but I'm not wasting my time with a one night stand that only scratches the surface, foreplay is almost nonexistent, they couldn't find their way around a woman's body with a GPS, and I walk away saying "why did I bother?" It's like I've been talked into buying a car that won't start as soon as I got it off the lot. Let's face it - a guy gets off with a stiff breeze, so if they don't really like a woman that much they won't go to any extra trouble to make sure she's happy.
I don't want to listen to a guy ramble on like a PG movie thinking he's kinky  when he sounds pretty amatuer to me and I am not ready to tell him until I've developed a relationship where I can trust him that much. | |
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Savona
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Joined: 7/14/2009
Msg: 299 | |
| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/20/2009 3:58:30 PM |
Let's face it - a guy gets off with a stiff breeze, so if they don't really like a woman that much they won't go to any extra trouble to make sure she's happy.
I don't want to listen to a guy ramble on like a PG movie thinking he's kinky when he sounds pretty amatuer to me and I am not ready to tell him until I've developed a relationship where I can trust him that much.
That post is great MissMewsic ... and sad but true.
Savona
vanilla ... hopefully rich french vanilla | |
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PiggyT
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Joined: 9/14/2009
Msg: 300 | |
| That's WHY It's Called Sex Appeal
Posted: 10/20/2009 4:03:40 PM | If that's the case Margo, here at POF vanilla, is pretty much the norm with most men in the vanilla dating sites. If they have been asleep in a marriage for years they probably haven't done much learning or exploration either and their idea of kink is a set of cheap fuzzy handcuffs, not to mention they don't know which of you they should go on. Knowledge is sexy in a man - I want him to teach me, not the other way around.
There are other sites that are more specific almost like a menu when it comes to that adventure. Might as well save time and be upfront about it - you can get right to it without being judged. Vanillas don't understand and do judge you - men and women alike.
I've seen guys in the forum here even appalled that women use toys.
I am here because I'm willing to consider a vanilla ONLY for LTR if their interest correlate and they are open minded to learn, but I'm not wasting my time with a one night stand that only scratches the surface, foreplay is almost nonexistent, they couldn't find their way around a woman's body with a GPS, and I walk away saying "why did I bother?" It's like I've been talked into buying a car that won't start as soon as I got it off the lot. Let's face it - a guy gets off with a stiff breeze, so if they don't really like a woman that much they won't go to any extra trouble to make sure she's happy.
I don't want to listen to a guy ramble on like a PG movie thinking he's kinky when he sounds pretty amatuer to me and I am not ready to tell him until I've developed a relationship where I can trust him that much.
Nothing screams "I NEED A PIG" quite like the above!
VVV
And nothing screams "I AM A PIG" like the below.... (me me me me it's all about me me me) | |
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