| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/21/2009 2:48:57 PM | Hey X
Now that we control, at least according to you, all of their oil fields, when can we expect the price of gas to come down? I mean, we did go there and take the oil from them, did we not?
Oh, I get it, it was a conspiracy on behalf of "Big Oil", and now they are laughing all the way to the bank......... I should have seen that.
Paul K | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/21/2009 3:51:28 PM | Wow, I love it when people scream about how bad things are in Iraq and they've never been to the country. Is it better? Well it is a matter of persepective and what period of time we're speaking of. After the intital phase of the war in 2003 the answer was a resounding yes. However, the expectation was in the re-building phase was set to high.
The Collition forces had several obsticals to overcome. First, we had to round up the bad players in the former government. Especially find "Elvis" who was in a spider hole. We had to stop the fedien fighters, who, felt that they had no future without the Sunni lead Batth party in power. Then you have the muhajuhin "insurgent" terrorist fighters to combat. In the beginning they were mostly running sabotage missions. They later became more organize under the banner of Al-Qudea in Iraq. Al-Queda means the base by the way, it is a confederation of like minded individuals...not a centerally controlled orgaization. The US tried to use the same light footprint approach in Iraq as they had in Afganistan in hopes that we wouldn't get into a protracted occupation. The goal was to have the Iraq's re-build their country with advisors, and contractors from the US aiding, and doing the heavy lifting. The US under-estimated the resistance and influence of forgein fighters.
Because of the Sabotage efforts of the insurgents and Al-Queda, that happered the rebuilding efforts within the country. Therefore, hurting our overall creditblity. Remember the expection was to have the entire country to be re-built within a 2-3 time frame. Unrealistic from the begining but that was what was sold to the American people and the rest of the world. All paid for my Iraqi petro-dollars. None of which materialized until, 2005/2006. Since we broadcasted this to our enemies this was the plan for reconstrution, this is where the focus, of enemy efforts were. That and IED explotions for the home audience, to undermine the resolve of the American people that had no connection to Iraq outside of the news.
Fast forward to 2006 you see the greater involvement of the Iranian, and its proxy the Syrians the the war effort. The weapons become more complex. They have their markings all over them. This is all in an effort by the Shi'ite Iranians to become the dominate power in the Near East. They see the Al Makiki government as a natural ally in the region. You see prior to the war they were rivals because of the different sects. However, with the popular vote the majority Shi'ite in the country were able to control the government and have become more bulit stronger ties with Iran. Al-Maliliki was in exile in Iran before his return in 2003. This is the same year the IED incedents were at it's zenith. To combat this the troop surge was put into place. This was able to bring stablity back into the country.
In 2009 I would say that the infasturcture is at a point greater then 2000 levels. The violence is lower then pre-war levels. Political stablity is greater. The people have a belief that they will have a say in there government. The country is not in danger of fracture. I didn't go into the Kurtiztan issue that would another complexity to the issue of Iraq. So in short the country is much better. It often takes 10 years to re-build a country after a war. So you will have to give it more time before you can pass final judgement. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:11:09 PM |
we did go there and take the oil from them, did we not?
Actually, you went there to ensure Iraqi oil would continue to be priced in US Dollars. Saddam was starting to sell oil on the spot market for Euros. What do you think made him such a dangerous dictator anyway...the way he treated his people?...Hah! The US was fine with that as long as he did what he was told. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:19:35 PM | We need to talk about the airable land in Iraq. Most of which is in the North or Kurtistan. Which has seen the least amount of violence in the country. So I call the whole report hog-wash. You will find some green areas around Baghdad, but there is very little farm land in that part of the the country for obvious reasons. The South and West of the Country is mostly sand and dessert and or arrid land.
As a member of OPEC he couldn't unilaterally declare what he was going to price oil at. Besides, oil is exchanged on world markets in dollars. It takes more then one person to change that Dukky. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:36:57 PM |
As a member of OPEC he couldn't unilaterally declare what he was going to price oil at
Sure he could. All he had to do was pull out of OPEC (he wouldn't have done that of course). The real danger was that he might pursuade OPEC to move away from the US Dollar as petrocurrency. That would have created an economic crisis for the US much like the one you're going through now. (I wonder if it has anything to do with Iran accepting other currencies for their oil? Leastways, Iran didn't seem like much of a problem until it looked like it was going to drop the US dollar as petrocurrency. All of a sudden it became a major threat to peace in the region...I guess it was "terrorizing" the US pocketbook.) It seems even the Saudis want to dump the Dollar now, which is a pretty clear signal that all those countries that had been holding US dollars to buy oil no longer need them and are dumping them on the world market at an ever-faster rate. This will inflate your currency like it's going out of style (which it is, as far as oil goes). I'm afraid it's already happening... The US dollar is finished! | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:52:10 PM | RE Msg: 31 by JustDukky:
I wonder if it has anything to do with Iran accepting other currencies for their oil? America started talking about declaring war on Iran, around the same time I started reading that Iran was intending to switch oil currencies.
I was pretty certain that when Iraq tried to trade in Euros instead of dollars for their oil, and Iraq then got attacked and invaded, that it must have made the other Arab nations think twice about trying it. However, with Iran having admitted to having enriched uranium, and having shown they have missiles that can cross the whole Middle East all the way to Israel, they have the capability to launch nukes, and that makes them too much of a threat to attack. So Iran is free to switch currencies in a way that Iraq did not. That opens the door to other Arab nations doing the same. Lo and behold, this month, the news has reported that Arab nations have held talks with Russia, China, and France, to trade oil in other currencies, like the Euro, the Chinese Yen, the Japanese Yen, and even a possible new currency discussed to be the new main currency of the Middle East. So it seems that Iran has opened the floodgates for everyone to drop the dollar.
This will inflate your currency like it's going out of style (which it is, as far as oil goes). I'm afraid it's already happening... The US dollar is finished! Not just the US dollar. The Law of Supply and Demand says that when demand drops, so does the price. So when no-one wants to trade in dollars, the dollar loses value in terms of trillions of dollars, which could send inflation spiralling at levels approaching 100s of %. When that happens, American buying power drops like a stone, and suddenly, no-one has any reason to buy American, and since Chinese prices are cheaper, it becomes very possible that America loses over 70% of its exports, and since Americans could buy Chinese products far cheaper, could send American imports sky-high, or could mean that Americans no longer can buy anything, because their dollars are worth nothing. Either way, it could send the American economy spiralling down, and could turn America from being the #1 to #20, in as little as a year. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/21/2009 6:19:35 PM | I don't worry about Iran. Yes it is has the land mass equal to the Western United States. However, this can be accounted for. Iran has been, and is a Nation State sponsor of Terror and has been so since at least 1983. So this has very little to do with the current topic. I'm very versed on them too.
As to the Dollar and inflation. Several factors. First the cutting of interest rate. That is a big factor in countries wanting to move away from it. Secondly the exess printing of money. Third the enourmous "stimulus" spending which will lead to out of control Bannana Republic inflation, Fourth the increase of the Minium wage to 7.25 as of July 09 which as decreased the purchasing power of the common person. Finally the fact that it is Fiat in nature. Much of this can be resolved and our reputation saved, by placing the dollar on either a gold or silver standard. Back it up with a material substance, much like we encouraged Brazil to do in the early 1990's. Secondly, quit this silly stimulus spending. Call back into the Fed 2 Trillion USD. Thirdly immediately raise the interest rate to 3% and raise the reserve funds of FDIC holdings. Bingo you have a economy out of critical condition, and stable. Next you work on you spending priorities. Yeah it will hurt for about 6 months but you keep the economy from collapsing on itself. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/21/2009 7:16:11 PM | ^^ good luck on that fantasy scenario ^^
and which University did you get your economics phd? | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/21/2009 9:56:16 PM |
I don't worry about Iran. Yes it is has the land mass equal to the Western United States. However, this can be accounted for. Iran has been, and is a Nation State sponsor of Terror and has been so since at least 1983. So this has very little to do with the current topic. I'm very versed on them too.
Well if the CIA hadn't had Mossadegh murdered and installed the Shah in '53 - Operation Ajax - Iran would most likely be a fully functioning organic democracy today. So the problem of Iran is, ironically enough, one that the U.S. created in the first place. And as far as state sponsored terrorism goes the U.S. lead the world in that too. Just read "Killing Hope: U.S. Military and C.I.A. Interventions Since World War II" by ex-State spook, William Blum. And for the record, it's not some conspiracy kook book. All the information within is available through FOIA and the LOC, and has been vetted by lumanaries like William Casey and John Stockwell. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/22/2009 2:54:25 AM | My undergrad is in Economics. I also do some work in the Finanical serivces field. I am currently enrolled in a MBA program, and hope to get a Ph.D. I've been studying concurently to get my brokrage license. However, that will take some time. However, I agree, that our government is unwilling to take the steps necessary to repair the economy. Our current President is using Keyansian economic therory without, having the gold-standard to back it up like Maynard Keyans did in the 1930's. There is some disagreement if it worked at all. For sake of arguement we will say that it didn't hurt.
The govenment prior to the Shah was moving towards a Communist/Facist state, therefore it was in the interest of the Western powers to remove it. Was the Shah the best? Maybe not. However Iran was in a much better postion then it is today. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/22/2009 3:08:10 AM |
Wow, I love it when people scream about how bad things are in Iraq and they've never been to the country. Is it better? Well it is a matter of persepective
How about from the perspective of the needless slaughter of tens of thousand of innocent Iraqis and millions leaving their county?
Can you drive two miles to a supermarket and be fairly assured you're not going to run over a roadside bomb that will instantly kill you? Can they?
Can you walk three blocks to a market and go shopping without fear of being blown up by a suicide bomber? Can they?
Is what these people still face every day of their lives is freedom from your perspective, well, we see things quite differently. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/22/2009 3:20:13 AM | | Today is better then what it was in 2006. That said, it also depends on which region of the country you are staying in. In Basra, Mosul, Tirkit, you'd be assured of those things. And sections of Faljujah, sections of Baghdad you have no more a chance of being killed then here in N. America. What people don't understand is that I was safer there then I was walking my own streets. I just had a chance of a more spectracular way of going. I've been in a IED explosion. Iraqi's are returning to the country, and were even durring the zenith of the violence. It is still a work in progress but progess has been made. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/22/2009 7:27:09 AM | Under Saddam, they had a serious problem with terror. Visits in the night by soldiers who could, and would carry off family members, never to be seen again. The family in power "above the law", doing anything, including rape and murder, with impunity. The attempted genocide of Kwaities.
Now, all that is left is the frikkin' taliban. More of a religious threat. Different type of thinking altogether. yet, still a threat.
Sure, there are those saying "blood for oil" and that kind of crap. Try sending a group of these "politically correct" types over there to see girls not allowed to go to school, and women who are basically "maids, cooks and baby-makers" The PC'ers soon change their tune. Attempting to reform a society to drag them into the 21st century is not an easy job. Never is. there are always those who feel "the old ways are the best ways"...perhaps they are...for them. This leaves little for change for their children.
So....round up the PC'ers and give them a free one way ride to the war zone. Let them experience first hand what is going on. Then we'll see what they have to say.
Does this kind of thing work?
Sure. Go look up "Hanoi Jane".  | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/22/2009 7:52:17 AM |
he govenment prior to the Shah was moving towards a Communist/Facist state, therefore it was in the interest of the Western powers to remove it
I wonder how Americans would feel if Stalin had said the government of the US was becoming too "right wing" and it was in his interest to "remove it" and invaded the country to bring Americans "social equality". Would he have been greeted as a liberator? Would it have been his business at all what Americans did in their country? Not bloody likely! So maybe now you can see why the people of Iraq might be a little bit teed off about the Americans bringing them "freedom and democracy" by killing a bunch of them.
Maybe now we can see how wrong it was (for instance) to start a coup in Chile that killed Allende and put that fascist ba$tard Pinochet in power, because Kissinger said "We cannot allow a country to turn communist because of the stupidity of its people." What made Chile's internal affairs any business of the US? What gave Kissinger the right to tell the people of Chile how they should live? | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/22/2009 9:31:23 AM | ^^^^
Hey Paul K
Sorry... 'we' don't control the oil fields, Big Petrol does so don't expect oil prices to come down anytime soon. Infact, if they did I would be encouraged. Prices certain won't go down for Iraqis.
It was a 'conspiracy' on behalf of more than just big oil.
What was the point of your post... I detect sarcasm, a little passive aggressive tones... but I might be mistaken... why don't you just express what you think? Or perhaps I misread it completely and you did express yourself honestly. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/22/2009 9:34:36 AM | | Gadgetdoc.... I would be terrorized if cruise missiles were falling outside my home. I vote to add The United States to that list of States that sponser terrorism. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/22/2009 11:16:53 AM | Hey X
If cruise missles were to "fall" ouside your house, it would mean that they missed....... and they don't miss.
As far as terrorism goes, I think that you need to experience real terrorism, and then make statements as silly as you do.........................
Not that I would want you to experience real terrorism, but you really have missed what it really is.
Paul K | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/22/2009 2:59:47 PM | Hmmm not such the out-cry about the cruise missles being dropped on Baghdad durring the Clinton adminstration. Can anyone remember operation Dessert Fox? So at least if you're going to be against our actions in Iraq be consitant. That said Crusie missles haven't been used much since the end of major combat operations, for the simple reason of Danger Close, and Friendly Fire when doing close air support. You would do well to educate youself on munitions, and there application.
As to Stalin, let's see, he took over the whole Eastern Bloc, aided Mao in China against Kin Chi Chek, and the N. Koreans. So he moved pieces on the chess board for "social justice" That's a non starter Dukky, you know I know my history. As to Chile, there has been no link to the CIA in any actions in the 1970's to the rise of Pinochete. Just rumors and speculation. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/22/2009 3:23:22 PM | | What a bummer! Your info posted is important, very important, and sure the Iraqi people have unjustly suffered much. However, soliciting and requesting of donations is very against the rules of these forums, and I think this thread will not be around for long. Next time you post this important info somewhere, check the rules of the site, so that all your efforts are not for no result-Wiyan | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/22/2009 3:37:00 PM | | ^^^^Better to give to some food charity. In my opinion, at least you know that it will feed someone. I truely hate starvation, as I would say all that post here do. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/23/2009 12:03:03 AM | I was wondering why so many feel so strongly yet, that there was something honorable, that the death and maimed toll was worth it, and the huge debt to China was justified in our Iraq attack. I know Faux Newz helps, but it had to be something deeper that twisted minds into justifying this Bush folly. Then the documents came forth, that the DoD has been using PSYOPs on Steroids on US citizens.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23785.htm
“The strategic target remains our population.”
Now it makes sense why some can spew so much nonsense in the face of reality. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/23/2009 1:35:29 AM | Hey puppy
How've you been? I guess you have heard the good news that the howdy doody administration wasn't going to allow Fox news access to the White house, etc.........
I don't really know where it ended up, but when the president of the US bans/trys to ban a major news source from the white house, you have to wonder what they are afraid of.
Wow....... PSYOPs.................. So the black helicopters I saw were real.
Paul K | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/23/2009 1:52:07 AM | So then you would have no problem if the White House would ban one of the largest news sources in the US? And you would not be worried about the precedent it would set? You would be for that?
Talk about a dangerous downhill slope. First howdy doody doubles the national debt in the first three months, then fires execs in private business, tells them who to hire, tells them what and how much they can be compensated, and now tells all of us who can be at press conferences and who can't????????? Please show me in the Consititution where it gives him that power........................................
And you can't see any parallels in history? Even Nixon wasn't as paranoid as the howdy doody in office now................
Paul K | |
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