| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/27/2009 3:02:09 PM | I believe about a quarter of what the VA tells me anyhow. Thanks for the information, I love learning new things. I wasn't being sarcastic.
Bluesman, First I'm a Democrat and very active. Secondly I was saying the DU is very dangerous, toxic, and posionous. I was trying to relate from personal experience. Thirdly I have thought about a lot of things that could've brought them here. How far back in history do you wish to go? To the time of the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1920's or further still of Talmjia in the 1500's. I can go all the way back to the 620's. What would you like to talk about. The Seljuik, Mongol, Ottoman, Assabad, Empires ? Finally, I know I have a problem with my spelling. I come on the fourms as part of my physical threapy to increase activity to the affected regions of my brain. I have a Tramaic Brain injury from the war, in the temporal lobe region. I think I do very well, and I hold my own. Spelling is one of the things I'm trying to strenghen. Yes, it was huburis.
People die in war, they get hurt, and things get broken. It is up to us to see what the future brings after the bullets stop flying. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/27/2009 3:19:36 PM |
is iraq free? sod them, are we free is the real question.
Bang on!
The insidious globalisation of corporate greed. When Monsanto and their ilk mean the death of the American family farm, where thousands die to make the elite few obscenely rich.
I don't think we are. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/27/2009 3:24:53 PM | | ^^^^ But according to a couple in this forum, that is a good thing ! | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/27/2009 5:57:10 PM | | I hope you weren't refering to me. I don't think that we're free, and this is a good thing. Beleive me I love this Country, that is why I worry. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:08:25 PM | Well, various factions in Iraq are obviously "free" to plant truck bombs in public squares. Democracy! Whiskey! Sexy!
Look, this isn't even a real question, is it? We did to Iraq what Germany did to Poland in '39. It's a war crime, pure and simple -- the only difference being that 60 years ago, at least we **strung up** the war criminals. Nowadays, the swine go on the "motivational speaker" circuit.
Have you ever noticed how we never even bother to count the Iraqi dead? Yeah, some "liberators" we are. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:11:14 PM | "So, yeah, go ahead and believe that 9-11 and Iraq are not connected........."
Um, they're not. Even the man-child Bush admitted as much.
It's slightly astonishing that somebody who can at least type is still clinging to this delusion. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:23:17 PM | Good god, the fever swamps are never going to drain.
"gadgetdoc" bloviates:
"Fast forward to 2006 you see the greater involvement of the Iranian, and its proxy the Syrians the the war effort. "
Here's a simple exercise for you: Look at a map. On that map, note which countries border Iraq, and which do not. Now ask yourself: How many countries would tolerate a hostile army right across the border, and not resort **at least** to "proxies"? You think we'd sit back placidly if, say, Mexico had become a Soviet vassal? They're defending **their** part of the world.
And I notice you omit how the "political stability" in Iraq is essentially the result of bribing Sunni factional leaders -- the so-called "success" of the so-called "surge". Perhaps you could argue that this is standard imperial policy, the kind of thing that the Victorian Britons did all the time in Africa and south Asia. And maybe you'd be right, in a purely tactical sense. But considering that America's just about as overstretched as possible, and not especially good at imperial management anyway -- just how much time does this half-assed "strategy" have before it all comes unglued? | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:41:44 PM |
It's slightly astonishing that somebody who can at least type is still clinging to this delusion.
It's been my experience that there are lots of delusional people on these forums. I'm starting to ignore them because they're an insult to anyones intelligence. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/27/2009 9:01:37 PM | Believing in conspiracies yourself and calling other people delusional is one of lifes ultimate ironies....................................
Paul K | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 3:47:10 AM | Alrighty then Captain Paul K. Ironic,
Bush and Cheney are in desperate need of the "proof" that you claim to have that Iraq and 9/11 were somehow related. They've both backtracked on that claim and need some glimmer of hope when they face their impending war crimes tribunal. Care to share? Please for once, try substance over snark. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 9:11:06 AM | The problem with showing those who believe in conspiracies is that no matter what you tell them, UNLESS it fits their particular version of the conspiracy de jour, it is all made up by the "corporate, Big Pharma, Big Oil, illuminati, free masonites, the pope, knights Templar(!), illuminati (I like that one)" kabal that is controlling the whole world, and enslaving us all. Did I forget anybody? Apologies if I forgot or left anybody out.
How can one argue or disagree with that? Hey, I have a 25 year old dumb A$$ nephew who believes that we, that would be the US govt., brought down the twin towers with a controlled demolition................. Never mind that there is NO EVIDENCE, he believes that nothing crashed in Pensylvannia, never mind that there is footage and pieces of the crash. I know that to him these conspiracies are RELIGION. They don't need proof, they just need to be believed.
Paul K
PS The only place war crimes tribunals will be held for Bush and Chenney are in the pot addlled minds of CNJ's. PLEASE, put down the bong, and have a hit on reality. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 9:22:28 AM | Bluesman how much interaction have you have you had with indigious Iraqi's? How much time have you been in the country? Oh about Afganistan, it isn't dog years just a reality of topography and climate. I've been to both places and had close interations with the peoples of both countries. I live with results everyday. I pray for those that just lost loved ones this week.
Gadget | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:08:13 AM | Paul K
Hey X
Do you consider what happened on 9-11 a travesty to the human potential?
Paul K
Yes, I consider what happened on 9-11 a travesty. I don't believe that violence is a legitimate way of handling greivances.
But, even assuming that the conspiracy theories are wrong and that it was the Taliban who flew those planes into buildings (and the ground) then our response was completely wrong. It called for police action, not military action and certainly not in Iraq. Let's see 3000+ dead by taliban.... 1,000,000+ dead by USA and a few other countries. Where is the justice for those 1,000,000 dead, most of which were as innocent as the people in those planes and in this buildings? | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:10:21 AM | | Paul K- there is plenty of evidence that we were not told what we should have been told regarding 9-11. Do some research and you will see. Also I suggest a few history lessons for yourself, so that you can see that these things have happened many times in the past. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:16:12 AM | Hey X
1,000,000 dead? Please, at least show me the conspiracy sites where I can find that number, and the sites that point out where the information that we should have been told is?
As far as history goes............................. A 9-11 type of attack on the US happened when?
Paul K | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:18:27 PM | | I'm still waiting for K's proof that Iraq was in ANY way related to 9/11. I can't wait. He never did respond to Puppy's request for proof except to dis on his nephew. Talk is cheap ain't it. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:26:54 PM | http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/31/2151041.htm
This does not account either, for the half million kids and elders from the sanctions of Bush One War, nor the millions of others who will die from DU poisoning and PTSD from shock and awe BS.
Paul...Please tell us how Iraqis had a damned thing to do with our 9/11 and subsequent bloodlust. We are still waiting for proof. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:41:16 PM | http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/31/2151041.htm
This does not account either, for the half million kids and elders from the sanctions of Bush One War, nor the millions of others who will die from DU poisoning and PTSD from shock and awe BS.
Paul...Please tell us how Iraqis had a damned thing to do with our 9/11 and subsequent bloodlust. We are still waiting for proof. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 6:09:06 PM | | I want to ask a serious question, in relation to the original one posted? The post was is Iraq better now? I want to take us past the current phase of operations 2003-present. And look at the actions of the United States from just after Gulf War. Wasn't that a bit of bullying on our part by both George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton the 11 years of bombing? Earthpuppy the blood-lust for Iraq was all there in the 1990's I remember watching the Sunday shows and hearing Democrats as well as Republicans wanting to get Sadam. So, in the end I still think the result would've been the same. At least the Iraqi's know that the Americans won't be dropping munitions on there heads on the middle of the night without warning. Not much of an improvement, but an improvement none the less. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 6:23:52 PM | Hey Paul K
No conspiracy sites. These stats are in Iraq alone. Granted it is not solely from coalition bullets and shy of 1,000,000 (even with Afghanistan) but you do get the asymetrical response idea do you? You do understand overkill right? You understand that we layed WASTE TO A WHOLE FREAKING COUNTRY right?
A team of American and Iraqi epidemiologists estimates that 655,000 more people have died in Iraq since coalition forces arrived in March 2003 than would have died if the invasion had not occurred.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442.html
As for history:
These are just three famous examples but there are MANY MANY others.
Spanish-American war, 1898 Surprise explosion of the battleship Maine at Havana, Cuba. 255 died. The Hearst press accused the Spanish, claiming that the explosion was caused by a remote-controlled mine. The USA declared war on Spain, and conquered Philippines, Guam and Cuba. Subsequent investigations revealed that the explosion originated inside the Maine and that it was either an accident, such as a coal explosion, or some type of time bomb inside the battleship. Divers investigating the shipwreck found that the armour plates of the ship were blown bending outwards, not inwards.
Vietnam War, 1964 "The Tonkin incident", where American destroyer Maddox was supposedly attacked twice by three North Vietnamese torpedo boats in 1964 in the Gulf of Tonkin never happened.
World War II, 1939 Operation Canned Goods. The Gleiwitz incident was a staged attack by Nazi forces posing as Poles on 31 August 1939, against the German radio station Sender Gleiwitz in Gleiwitz, Upper Silesia, Germany (since 1945: Gliwice, Poland) on the eve of World War II in Europe. This provocation was the best-known of several actions in Operation Himmler, a Nazi Germany SS project to create the appearance of Polish aggression against Germany, which would be used to justify the subsequent invasion of Poland.
Taken from Wikipedia and 911review.com
It's not like the information is hidden or anything. It's only that some eyes are closed. Politiks is a VERY dirty game.
9-11 should have led to a massive international police action. Instead all evidence was destroyed and war was declared on an unrelated country. Very suspicious if you ask me. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 6:45:36 PM | Hey X
You wrote:
"9-11 should have led to a massive international police action. Instead all evidence was destroyed and war was declared on an unrelated country. Very suspicious if you ask me."
You just me considering that maybe you were kind of resaonable, then you say that all evidence was destroyed and war declared on an unrelated country.............
I've learned one thing when discussing issues with those who fervently believe in conspiracy theorys........ You are wasting your time. Facts mean nothing if they don't align with their theories, and if the facts did align with their theories, it wouldn't be a conspiracy, now would it?
Oh, even IF your numbers are even close to being right, showing 2/3 of a total really isn't even close............
Paul K | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 7:20:29 PM | | Paul K you quibble over numbers and do not face the real issues. You will argue with 700,000 vs 1,000,000? Haha... you are a funny man. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 8:10:49 PM | Paul K pouts:
"Believing in conspiracies yourself and calling other people delusional is one of lifes ultimate ironies........."
I think I get it now: Anyone who disagrees with your, ahem, interesting perspective, "believes in conspiracies". By definition. No wonder you win every argument, ace!
It's been more illuminating than you know, sport. Ciao. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/28/2009 11:31:27 PM | | He couldn't get away with that BS in formal debate. He'd get eaten alive in short order. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 10/29/2009 11:14:34 AM | At first I didn't think that telling anybody that believes as you seem to do, what I do know would be of any use, as you have what you believe set in stone. Actually, it was set in stone long before any of this happened.
What I do know is this, and I know it first hand from folks who were there. When our govt. was goin on and on about WMD's, connections to al queada, and all of the things that were actually debated by congress, and THEN we went to war, we had feet on the ground who actually saw convoys of big trucks going to Syria. There were even loads that were taken to Iran, but not nearly as many as went to Syria.
What was in these trucks? What we didn't find in Iraq. This is not news, and has been said before, but there are those who KNEW long before this was brought up that there was nothing to find in the first place...........
As far as I am concerned, I would have prosecuted the war in a completely different fashion, but that is another issue. Should we have gone to war against Iraq? Probably not. There are better ways to take care of that particular problem. Are the people there better off without saddam? Yes, without question. That opinion also comes from feet on the ground on location, some that have been there many times, from very close to the begining to present day.
Do I expect you to believe me? Not in the least, but then there are folks out there who can tell the differnce between a contrail and a "chemtrial" from 35,000 feet away, and they are believed..............
Paul K | |
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