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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/3/2009 5:00:03 PM | hey puppy
You have no clue as to who I hold animosity for, and for who I don't hold animosity for. Please don't presume to publish my preferences. The PEOPLE of Viet Nam have all my sympathy for what they have to endure. I am amazed that you see the communist chinese as the RIGHT invader, and that is why we suffered the consequences we did, because we backed the wrong side........ I guess than according to you, we should have backed the communist chinese? You don't leave any other choice. Here's a question: If the communists DIDN'T want to take the whole country of Viet Nam, would there have been a war in the first place?
I am always amazed by those who see the USA, the country they live in as the beginning and end of all evil, and still torture themselves by living here, when there are SO many other paradises that they could be luxuriating in. Why stay here?
Paul K | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/3/2009 6:45:59 PM | Paul K.."If the communists DIDN'T want to take the whole country of Viet Nam, would there have been a war in the first place?
I am always amazed by those who see the USA, the country they live in as the beginning and end of all evil, and still torture themselves by living here, when there are SO many other paradises that they could be luxuriating in. Why stay here?"
Vietnam dealt with China in a 2000 year love/hate relationship as a model, protectorate and threat, at various times, long before the French and then US colonialists took interest in the region as a political strategy. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" played a lot to do with the embrace of Communism and the subsequent defeat of the French and the US in that region in the last century. The Chinese influences in the region were a cause for wars long before we became a cause for war, but it our war there that killed millions in my lifetime and service there. The Chinese have never extended themselves globally as much as we have militarily in the last century.
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
I have never said that the US was "THE beginning and end of all evil", but rather pointed out that we are not the saints we would love to believe we are, and have the same capacity to become another Nazi Germany or worse. Many empires have had and will have that capacity when they see the world as black and white and have gods on their side. It takes people willing to believe in the possibility of good of people and nations to stay in those nations, to fight for truth and justice, and to do BS patrol on the "love it or leave it" brownshirts, whatever the color of the flags they drape themselves in. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/3/2009 6:51:24 PM | Hey pup
you wrote:
"we are not the saints we would love to believe we are, and have the same capacity to become another Nazi Germany or worse."
I can always tell when there is nothing left to discuss, and that is when Nazi germany is brought out, and one side is compared to it, or that one side will become like it, and that they wear "brownshirts".........
Paul K | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:04:43 PM | AS well as I can tell when there is nothing left to discuss when the "love it or leave it" tripe is regurgitated.
It's hard to face the reality that people and nations are pretty much all the same when we get full of ourselves. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:30:17 PM | I asked a very simple question, and that is if this country is so vile, why would you want to live in it in the first place? My family left a country that they considered to be vile...............................
As far as people and nations being all the same, you couldn't be more wrong. As far as being full of yourself, how many people are waiting in line to immigrate to Darfur? How about to Kahzakistan? When night falls on the San Diego and mexico border, what side of the border has more people waiting to try to escape to the other country? And all nations are the same? How many people try to sneak into mexico from America? Shall I go on? If it makes me full of myself about MY country, at least it is with good reason. If you don't feel that way, you really should feel that way about where you live, even if it requires moving.
Paul K | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/4/2009 1:56:19 AM | When I noted that we in the US have been full of ourselves, I was not referring to the Disneyland image that draws in economic immigrants. I was referring to the fact that we have become the global bloody empire in my lifetime, that we reacted quite horrifically in our bloodlust following 9/11, and that the tyrannical majority got quite belligerent toward those of us who opposed running away from finding the perpetrators of the attack and kill and maim millions who had nothing whatsoever to do with it. We are full of ourselves when we do kill and maim millions with no remorse. We are full of ourselves when we still believe the whole world thinks we are protective saints with nukes and killer robot drones. We are full of ourselves when we cannot see just how in debt we are to the world for consuming most of the world's resources and borrowing on future generations. Our tide has not lifted all boats. Even at home, half our kids will be getting food stamps as our empire goes the way of empires before.
People CAN be patriotic and criticize their nation's bad decisions and mis-leadership. People are still allowed to note that the Emperor has no clothes, particularly in our "beacon of democracy". For folks who subscribe to the "love it or leave it" meme, there are nations who would welcome you with finely pressed brown shirts. I am proud that we still have relative freedom of speech and the right to dissent, (in special free speech zones), and that we can still possibly turn our nation back into a global citizen instead of global bully.
I choose to stay and fight for the heart and soul of this nation rather than run. Family and friends are here. I sold my soul and killed plenty of innocent folks for the empire along with millions of others who served and oppose the worst of our nation's excesses as empire.
If you can't handle dissent, I hear that Iraq is free and welcomes American citizens with rose petals and bubbles. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/4/2009 9:40:08 AM | ^^^
To read what you write saddens me because all you see is the supposed bad that "my country'' has done, and see the rest of the world as the victum of our excesses, and innocent victums of our evil. You might have seen a lot of the world, but you saw it with blinders, froma perspective that is so off kilter, that it is hard to imagine.
You talk about nukes, you talk about robot drones, and I certain that in your mind our use of those two things makes us the scourge of the earth. When you say that you want to fight for the heart and soul of your contry, just what heart and soul would that be? Just what would the perfect country be shaped like according to you? I am curious to know, even if it is off topic........
Paul K | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/4/2009 9:50:55 AM | Paul
supposed bad
Not supposed bad, actual bad. Why don't you accept the criticism? You can still bring up the good while admitting that cruelty and insensitivity have often ruled the day.
Ancient Rome did lots that was good... they also did a lot that was quite evil. It is nothing personal (unless it is your family that suffers) it is only politiks.
I could say the same about China, Russia, heck I can even say the same about Canada. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/4/2009 10:06:51 AM | Hey X
What bothers me is that there are so many out there, you included, who seem to think that the US is on the same level, or even worse than the Soviet Union, or China.....................
That shows a total lack of knowledge of what really went on in those countries.
Paul K | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/4/2009 11:53:41 AM | No one has said that the US is worse than Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union or China thus far. We do have the potential, both in our empire reach and how the people can be so easily manipulated as we saw in the post 9/11 Bush league.
We do have some major areas where can can improve in being a better global citizen and turn around the trends that cause most of the world's population to hate us or fear how out of control we can easily become. We export over 2/3 of the worlds weaponry, most intent on destabilization in third world nations. We have over 835 military bases outside of the US, with troops in over 150 countries and bases in over 60. For most of the world's citizens, that reeks of empire. With the advent of the Free Trade Agreement in South America, part of the package included the US placing troops in our trade nations. These military deployments have more to do with US corporate welfare than for the welfare of the citizens of many of those countries.
In the last decade we have snubbed our noses at international law, become a nation that tortures, does renditions, indefinate detentions, and built a huge spy network on our own citizens while repressing free speech through intimidation, spying and infiltration of protesters.
The US with 5% of the world's population has been consuming 25% of it's resources. We are less blatant, in our minds at least, than most empires of the past, but the results are the same for those in the affected countries. We still prop up our puppet governments as often as we can get by with it. Iraq and Afghanistan are but two of the latest puppet regimes. We also are leaders in the export of toxic waste to third world nations. Our Corporate masters have led the world in the export of unsustainable agriculture, GM crops, and co-opting local self sufficiency efforts.
We lead the industrial nations of the world in preventable deaths. We also lead or are very close to the lead in mental illness , with nearly a quarter of us qualifying as such. We lead in eating disorders and 2/3rds of us are either obese or overweight. (consuming a quarter of the world's resources don't help.)
We lead the world in lawyers per capita, and with 5% of the world's population, house nearly a quarter of the world's incarcerated. We incarcerate people longer for the same crimes, than other nations do. China is a distant 2nd in incarceration rates.
While we granted minorities and women equal right in the last century, there is a backlash now against immigrants, particularly those of brown hispanic origin, Muslims, and others selected to make up our scapegoat deficiency.
These are but a few places where we have the capacity to rectify situations, reverse trends, and improve the lives of our citizens and our standing in the world. I've seen radical changes in our nation in my short lifetime, not all for the better. The post 9/11 world was Orwellian as we built up to war. If you were on the "fer us side" you would not have seen how close we came to something quite unrecognizable as the Land of the Free.
If you live on the Res, or are Black or Hispanic while driving, you would also have a different America with it's blue lights in your rear view mirror.
We have done much humanitarian aid, not all of it with strings attached, and we do still have a leadership role in science and technology. We also lead the world in shark attacks. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:23:04 PM | Hey puppy
You start out by saying that "nobody said that the US is worse than"...... and then go into a diatribe that quite a bit of is questionable, make conclusions that are hard if not impossible to prove, yet because you cloak yourself in the "we need to do better for the world", imporve our standing in the world, you get a pass on all the BS that you spout.
I am going to address one point specifically, as I am sure there is a limit as to size of these posts. And, that area is imigration. I don't know ANYBODY that is against LEGAL imigration. I imigrated to this country, but did so LEGALLY. When you refer to those of "brown hispanic origin", I know that it is hard to say so because it is politically incorrect to say so, but why don't you just say..... illegal aliens, mostly from mexico? At least have juevos big enough to call them exactly what they are......... Did the the ones we are discussing now come here legally? NO.
I asked you how many times, why it was that since the US is such a toilet, why do you stay, and you obviously thought I was trying to tell you to get out. You should know by now, that if that was what I thought, I would have said it. Your answer in a nutshell, and thank you for it by the way, was that you were trying to make things better. That leads me to this question: Why do those who come to this country illegally, come here in the first place? Answer: Because it is much better than where they come from. Simple.
Here is where you get to do a great service for all of those people who are risking life and limb to get here. Tell them the "Puppy Doctrine", which is that they should stay where they are, and MAKE IT A BETTER PLACE. After all, if that is good enough for you, why would it not be good enough for them? AND, if you REALLY believed in what you are doing here, why not go there and show them HOW to do it? Or does that philosphy not apply to them? If you are really looking to make the world a better place for all, why not help them improve their country. I think that would be a great idea, and then maybe they can send aid to us here.....
I've had long conversations with folks who used to live on the "res", and you know what they told me that I am sure you will find almost impossible to believe.......... THEY CAN LEAVE......... and the ones that do, usually do quite well. If you really feel that the blue lights of America are always following you, and that since 9/11, we have been living in an Orwellian country, my suggestion is to simply don't speed, don't run red lights, don't cross the double yellow line, and you will be fine. Guess what, those driving laws were around BEFORE 9/11 also.
Whatta ya say??!!! I think the "puppy doctrine" is a great idea whose time has come!
Paul K | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:28:32 PM | First I have to say FTW. I don't worry so much about the rest of the world, as I do about the United States. We're in the GWOT, now we have to finish the job, otherwise it will bite us in our a$$ later. I'm not interested in Oceania. I would say that we've been moving to 1984 since the George H.W. Bush Adminstration.
I want to address, puppets of Iraq and Afganistan. First Al-Malki, is running his own game. He is doing just enough to keep American money and security in the courtry. Once he can stand alone, he's going to say Drop Dead US, and Ally with Iran. Sometimes, you have to wonder if you replaced one dictator, with another.
Karzai, is doing intresting dance. He has to keep his immediate neighbors happy. Pakistan, and Iran...big trading partners. Then he has to Worry about Uzbekistan, and Kazikistan, both countries which have ethnic minorities in Afganistan. These countries have also been involved in the general destablization of Afganistan durring the Post Sovieit Pre GWOT era. The central government is very weak, mostly because of the lack of infasturtures, road, bridges, electric, sewage...basics of Western life. His priority is to keep all the ethnic minorities happy safe and secure, meanwhile keeping the Pastu's feeling superior and like they run the country. All of this of course is keeping the US happy that we are making progress, in all areas. Reconstrution, Humanitarian Rights, War effort, and other political factors.
I see Migrant workers. They work on the farm behind my house. I don't own the farm. And they work long hours for little pay. So illegal immgration is double edge sword. I think that the immgration laws need to be changed to make it easier to come into the US legally. Just know there are two sets of rules in the US. The rules for the connected, and rules for the rest. It is far from equal protection under the law. It isn't so much about money, but influence. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:01:14 PM | Hey gadget
I may have to resign my post as Ambassador to Monaco if you keep it up......
you wrote:
"I think that the immgration laws need to be changed to make it easier to come into the US legally."
Before you say that, you really need to know how it was after WW2, and how it is now. What is funny is that now they are proposing things like having to have a skill set for a particular business, and then you can come into country quickly..... Thats nothing new, thats the way it was in the '60's. If a machine shop needed a tool and die maker, but couldn't find one locally, and there was somebody who wanted to imigrate here from another country, that imigration would be fast tracked. Now, some dumb a$$ politicina is proposing just that type of system and patting himself on the back.
As far as farm work, that one is easy, and you won't believe what I propose. Raise the prices you pay to farm workers. I mean from $10.00/hour to $25.00/hour. That will do two things, both good. Number one, it will make the farm workers union an irrelvancy. Number two, AMERICANS will line up to take those jobs, god help the poor illegal alien who gets in line.
What about the price of crops, you ask. Glad you asked. Here is an example. A head of lettuce costs about $1.00. Out of every dollar, how much do you think is labor????
Less than 10 cents. The rest goes to mortgage payments, euipment, fertilizers, etc. Would you pay $1.10 for a head of lettuce???????? Yep, so would I.
As far as their being two sets of rules, one for those connected, one for everyone else...................... Get used to it, it has been that way since the garden of eden........ metaphorically speaking. (didn't want to piss anybody off)
Paul K | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/4/2009 8:03:37 PM | Yes easier. Legal immgration is a nightmare, even for someone married to a US citizen. I want it to be streamedline to allow desireable (non-criminal/sick/skilled) immgrants into the nation. Then we can look at Visa status's like J-1 student worker etc. However they will have to want to be citzens which not all illegals do. I want to reduce the amount of red-tape involved in legal immgration, not the standards of citizenship.
I am also aganist the abuses that the migrant worker has too. They aren't even making the minium wage, so illegal immgration can be a lose-lose. It drives everyones wage down, and creates a serf class. Then you have the human trafficing, the problems the the coytes, and lets not forget narotics. I'd rather have someone come here legally then have the problems of boarder crossing. So in my opinion streamlining and reducing red tape is a win for all concerned.
A model of agriculture supply curve is a flat line. So, your model on prices has a lot more variables then just labor and other fixed costs. Drought, Flood, and Freeze factor into it too. So dependent on the year can go up more sharply then 0.10 | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/5/2009 4:08:46 AM | Iraq and lettuce go together quite well actually.
Americans demand cheap. Mal-Wart once prided itself on "buy American", but the Waltons quickly found out that cheap was more important than quality or supporting each other's jobs. The same thing has happened to our food supplies as agribusiness has taken over production, citizens are replaced with immigrants legal and illegal, and the produce itself is cheapened in nutrition and grown with chemicals to replace yet more people.
That head of lettuce had to travel 1500 miles to the average american mouth, contains virtually no nutrients or fiber. We would be better off grazing on the grass in our front yards.
To sate the need for cheapness, and highly subsidized transportation fees on socialized highway systems, oil wars must be fought and bases maintained to keep the flow of cheap, bloody lettuce going through our bowels. Without the oil, the vast majority of Americans would perish within a year since we've forgotten how to grow our food, much less do hard physical labor. Our brethren from points south are filling the void of our domestic labor pool that has gotten spoiled rotten, lazy, has a sense of privilege beyond their production capacity, and quite frankly would rather starve on cheap lettuce than do hard work.
Profiling and hate crimes against brown hispanic immigrants is a real and growing problem, regardless of whether they are legal or not. Those whacky kids in NY who killed an immigrant in their fun filled "jump a beaner" night, did not do so because of the price of lettuce...or oil. | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/5/2009 2:41:22 PM | Paul K
I know quite a bit about China actually, having lived in Taiwan for two years I got to know a couple Chinese dissidents living there. I have also been following the news of their persecution of Falun Gong followers, Tibetans, their Islamic minority and political activists. That's why I included China. I don't know Russian history quite as well though I have read quite a bit.
I didn't believe that I was rating countries... quite the opposite... Japan has a long a sordid past with oppression, as do Britian, France, Spain, and a whole host of other places... including the country of my birth Canada.
The way that I see it, some powerful countries focus mostly on oppressing their own citizens other coutries, with a different philosophical bent, focus on exporting this oppression to neighbours and the world at large.
China is in the former category while the United States stands in the latter although, as Earthpuppy pointed out so eloquently the States is doing quite well putting it citizens behind bars.
I would suggest that you read about the history of the CIA. I am curious to know... do you ever seriously read from a source critical to your initial assumptions?
Again it is nothing personal just politiks as usual... the cliche is true after all... power corrupts.
www.mindcontrolforums.com/history-cia-atrocities.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Legacy-Ashes-History-Tim-Weiner/dp/038551445X | |
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| Is Iraq really free now?
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:50:30 PM | The Republic of China (Taiwan) will become a problem for us, but that is another Geo-political discussion.
Earthpuppy, you're right about Transportation. Most people don't really understand what it takes to get food from the farm to the distrubtion center, to the grocery store, to you. The one thing that I haven't been able to wrap my head around (since Katrina) is how developing the pricing structure of Desiel. It isn't a popular as Unleaded fuel, however, it takes less "cracking" of petrol to produce. Therefore, it is easier to produce. All of our tractor trailers, use Desiel about 1000 gallons per fill-up for a 53 foot trailer. The farmer uses desiel for his equipment, and to move his trucks to the storage shed. Placed on another truck and taken to another distrubtion warehouse. From there they are warehoused at a distrubtion center. (Distrubution work is difficult, we have one here in my town.) Then they are taken by truck again, to the local stores, where your car buy the produce. It is an Amazing process really. But you can see why oil in our National Interest. I could also talk about the plastics, and other products produced by oil. I learned a lot about this while researching alternative fuels.
As far as Wal-Mart they didn't go away from the USA until after Sam died. He was un-happy of the destruction of the southern textiles, and argi-business. So if you want to talk about Wal-Mart you have to look at pre and post Sam Walton.
I want to send my prayers to those that were killed or wounded at Ft. Hood today. | |
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