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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/25/2009 11:30:21 AM |
Your answer is text-book like, but it ignores the fact that "just sex" for the majority of women seems to be a big "NO-NO". Women often speak against "just sex" like it's something to be avoided, something bad in itself, of itself... hence the question. Also, most women will not date a man who wants "just sex" which leads a man to conclude the majority of women do have something against "just sex". And your point is.....umm...what exactly?
*If* what you say is true and who knows if it is, then so what? I have nothing "against" pure physical sex per se. I hold no view that it is something "bad" in or of itself. But it really does nothing for me, so I choose not to do it. And that's just the way it is for me. Of course the way I know it does nothing for me is that I have done it a couple of times in the past found it to be totally unsatisfying and made a choice not to do it again.
And if that is the way it happens to be for other women, doesn't make us wrong or dysfunctional or hung up. It is a preference. Simple as that. And 'men' will just have to either get over it or focus on that small number of women who are into it I guess. What can I say? *Most* men don't want to date me because I'm 39, have a 2 & 4yr old and am temporarily not working. Nothing I can do about it. Nothing I want to do about it, (in terms of caring for my children in their pre-school years). It's a preference and I totally understand it.
It's a waste of time and energy trying to exert control or influence over that which you cannot control or influence.
The thing is women are often not on the same page with men when it comes to sex.
Your answer is text-book like, You seem to misunderstand my point completely. I am not talking about a 'big picture' concept of whether or not women are on the same page when it comes to sex. Of course they frequently aren't. Duh. Hence these sites and these forums!
What I meant was if *a* man and *a* woman want to have purely physical sex and that is both what they want, then there is nothing wrong, bad, whatever with that IMHO. | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/25/2009 2:18:53 PM |
And your point is.....umm...what exactly?
Okay, I will spell it out for you:
1) Men and women are generally not on the same page when it comes to sex.
2) Men like sex and are okay with "just sex".
3) Women are not okay with "just sex".
4) From 1,2 & 3 it follows that it is unlikely for *a* woman to want to have "just sex" with *a* man.
5) From 1-4 it follows that you statement, "If that's what gets you off, gives you what you want/need at that time and both of you are on the same page, then what could possibly be bad about that?" is
A) A conditional statement that is unlikely to occur
B) A text-book answer as it states the obvious, but yet....
C) Ignores reality &
D) It doesn't really touch on the issue of women's problem with "just sex" (or why some choose to not have it)
You seem to misunderstand my point completely. I am not talking about a 'big picture' concept of whether or not women are on the same page when it comes to sex. Of course they frequently aren't. Duh. Hence these sites and these forums!
I understood your point the first time.
What I meant was if *a* man and *a* woman want to have purely physical sex and that is both what they want, then there is nothing wrong, bad, whatever with that IMHO.
Yes, that is your point. But I think it is redundant, and somewhat of a cliche. It is basically your opinion that there is nothing wrong with others' opinion of "just sex" as it concerns them. It does really touch on the issue of "just sex" for people who have a problem with "just sex". Good to know that other people have your non-approval and non-disapproval when it comes to "just sex".
I have nothing "against" pure physical sex per se. I hold no view that it is something "bad" in or of itself. But it really does nothing for me, so I choose not to do it.
Yeah... as I said, men and women are generally not on the same page. Sex does nothing for you, but it is pleasurable for me. I will generalize by saying sex does nothing for most women, and it's pleasurable for most men.
This explain why many women can withhold sex, manipulate men using sex, insist on a relationship before they "give out" sex, why sex does not have "huge emotional investment", why some women feel used sexually, dislike "players", and so on.
If what you say is true, most men are fools for pursuing women in general. | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/25/2009 3:31:37 PM |
I have nothing "against" pure physical sex per se. I hold no view that it is something "bad" in or of itself.
Actually, that's disingenuous.
You go so far as to say that your experiences with pure physical sex was "totally unsatisfying and made a choice not to do it again".
That's hardly being as indifferent as you claim to be, in regards to casual sex.
And if that is the way it happens to be for other women, doesn't make us wrong or dysfunctional or hung up.
That's an illogical claim.
If you're not enjoying something that is enjoyable as sex and orgasm, then there's an issue somewhere.
You're just in denial, and attempting to put the onus elsewhere.
I can't think of one psychologist, or sex therapist who would give you a clean bill of health "sexually", if you find casual sex "totally unsatisfying".
It's a waste of time and energy trying to exert control or influence over that which you cannot control or influence.
It is if you have a self defeatist attitude, and are prone to fatalism....
It is a preference. Simple as that.
No, it's not simple as that. It's not simply a "preference" as you claim.
If it was a "preference" only, you'd still be able to enjoy casual sex.
According to you, you can't. That means one situation of "sex" is bad, while another is "good".
If it was a "preference" only, you'd be able to enjoy casual sex, but, not choose to indulge in it, casually.
The distinctions between those two types of mindsets are broad. | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/25/2009 3:52:13 PM | | Wow, I'd hate to be a man on a date with somw of you women. Grow up people, esp. women. I hate this about my gender. Look if the feeling and chemistry is right why not? 1st date, 2nd date or even 16th date, does it really matter??? Sex is not a bad thing in fact it's really, really good! As long as it's consentual and both people are on the same page wht does it hurt? Damn people not every ejaculation deserves a name! lol | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/26/2009 6:01:43 PM |
All men in heterosexual relationships pay for sex directly or indirectly. One form is a more honest business transaction and the other is like a slot machine.
Not true. I'm a heterosexual man in a relationship and I am not paying for sex either directly or indirectly. | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/26/2009 9:15:18 PM | It would be good to know as soon as possible that the person had these kind of computational needs so I would not be wasting my time. Each relationship will develop at its own pace. Imposing arbitrary time lines and other expectations on this process may very well ditch some otherwise promising matches. That said, interest and attraction should become pretty obvious by the third date. Without attraction none of the rest will come to anything.....But waiting to acually know one another better and for the desire to build can actually be good. | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/26/2009 9:37:30 PM | Since I'm not really interested in casual sex, I don't entertain the three date rule. As far as I'm concerned at 3 dates the situation is still entirely casual and doesn't even qualify as a relationship. Anyone expecting sex by the third date from me should be looking elsewhere for a free hooker cause I'm not interested inparticipating in their agenda.
I prefer to get to know somebody a little better than you can do in three dates and determine whether I even want to continue seeing them before I sleep with them, if they aren't on board with that we don't even need a 1st date much less a second or third. When we've established that there is mutual interest and potential for more than causal sex, the recreational sex can begin!
Also, helps weed out the married men.... their wives generally don't let them go out often enough to get in more than three dates...so they go for 3 or less... | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/27/2009 12:50:40 AM |
Actually, that's disingenuous.
You go so far as to say that your experiences with pure physical sex was "totally unsatisfying and made a choice not to do it again".
That's hardly being as indifferent as you claim to be, in regards to casual sex. WRONG. Yep I find purely physical sex totally unsatisfying because really good sex for me involves my mind as much as my body. So purely physical sex is just "fine" or "ok". Nothing more, nothing less for me.
Now, casual sex, which by definition is what we are talking about, is a high risk venture. You can be using all the right protections, but at the end of the day there is sill a risk of STDs and you are making that risk much higher by virtue of having sex with someone you know nothing about.
So it's the old risk/reward analysis thing. Purely subjective of course. *For me* the reward does not justify the reward. So I choose not to do it. Not taking the risk for something that is just "fine" or "nice". Not when I know how much better and lower risk the alternative is.
And by the way, I never said I was indifferent to it as a concept per se. As a concept I think it's great if that's what makes you happy. I am however indifferent to it on a personal level.
That's an illogical claim.
If you're not enjoying something that is enjoyable as sex and orgasm, then there's an issue somewhere.
You're just in denial, and attempting to put the onus elsewhere.
I can't think of one psychologist, or sex therapist who would give you a clean bill of health "sexually", if you find casual sex "totally unsatisfying". AND WRONG AGAIN. Your arguments are so flawed, simplistic and biased it's hardly worth responding to. You seem to think you are the 'authority' on this area and yet you sound more naive and ignorant with every comment you make.
I am not in denial about anything. Casual sex/orgasm is fine. It's nice. But for me, it's just average compared to being intimate with someone who knows me a bit and whom I know and with whom with each experience we are learning more.
I have a perfectly "clean bill of health" thanks.
If it was a "preference" only, you'd still be able to enjoy casual sex.
According to you, you can't. That means one situation of "sex" is bad, while another is "good". OMG could you get any more simplistic. NO WRONG YET AGAIN. Contrary to your extraodinarily myopic mindset around sex and relationships, it is not ever black and white, good or bad.
My preference is not to take on the increased risks inherent in casual sex for a 'nice' experience. A really good sexual encounter *for me* starts long before the clothes come off and continues long after the clothes are back on. And I prefer that any day to casual sex.
You are so insistent that there is something wrong with someone who doesn't like/enjoy/want/prefer [insert whatever fits for the individual here] casual sex, I really have to wonder why. It seems to me you are just trying to validate your own choices. Maybe you're not as comfortable with them as you kid yourself you are.
I have no problem whatsoever with casual sex in and of itself. I cast no moral aspersions on it, see nothing dysfunctional in engaging in it. And yet you are determined to 'prove' that there *is* something wrong with someone for whom it holds insufficient allure for them to engage in it. Why is that? And please, don't bother coming back with "because there is something wrong with you" because any psychologist or sex therapist will tell you that that is just not true.
If it was a "preference" only, you'd be able to enjoy casual sex, but, not choose to indulge in it, casually. AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, WRONG AGAIN; not to mention somewhat illogical. On your track of thought, if one really enjoyed something then why wouldn't they choose to indulge in it?
There is no "requirement" that one enjoy something but choose not indulge in it in order to define it as a preference.
Preference: "a person, object, or course of action that is more desirable than another, or the state of being that desirable choice".......
Now, for me, sex within a relationship is much more desirable than casual sex. And since I have that very strong preference and have had no difficulty in my life just going with my desired choice, why would I need to have casual sex?
If pure sex and having an orgasm is all you need that's fine. But I am old enough and experienced enough to know now there is so much more to be had than what are just the basics. And I prefer to stick with that preference.
It's simple really. Once you've had something far better the thing that seemed good before pales in comparison and you have no desire to go back to it.
Oh and CONGRATULATIONS. The first post of yours where the term "straw man" hasn't been overused and misused to death. | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/27/2009 5:05:08 AM | I havent read all 11 pages, but, i think the reason many women arent to thrilled about jumping into sex with someone too soon, is because of the simple biological fact that 70% of women dont even orgasm from sexual intercourse. There just isnt a whole lot of incentive to jump in the sack with someone. Unless, of course, their idea of good sex is getting to lie in the wet spot.
I have a feeling alot of women prefer getting to know someone and being comfortable enough with them to let them know what it is going to take for them to reach orgasm, is alot of the reason that women prefer to wait. | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/27/2009 7:21:50 AM |
I havent read all 11 pages, but, i think the reason many women arent to thrilled about jumping into sex with someone too soon, is because of the simple biological fact that 70% of women dont even orgasm from sexual intercourse. There just isnt a whole lot of incentive to jump in the sack with someone. Unless, of course, their idea of good sex is getting to lie in the wet spot.
I have a feeling alot of women prefer getting to know someone and being comfortable enough with them to let them know what it is going to take for them to reach orgasm, is alot of the reason that women prefer to wait.
Well according to many posters on here, that is our problem, not theirs and we should just be doing it so the other individual can be happy and get their test drive in, and apparently if those that dont want to just "do it", they have major mental and sexual hang ups. I love being diagnosed by all of the "sexperts" on this place. | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/27/2009 7:41:25 AM | | ^^Yeah, there can be just too many variables involved when it comes down to it. I figure one has to be true to themselves, while still remaining open. Once you meet someone on your level, there is usually not half the issues that are talked about on POF forums anyway :) | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/27/2009 9:38:42 AM |
Since I'm not really interested in casual sex, I don't entertain the three date rule. As far as I'm concerned at 3 dates the situation is still entirely casual and doesn't even qualify as a relationship. Anyone expecting sex by the third date from me should be looking elsewhere for a free hooker cause I'm not interested inparticipating in their agenda.
See this is part of the problem for a lot of people.... They don't even look at the date as part of the process... They think of it as a means to an end...
Me, I enjoy the date... I love to go out, have fun, maybe dinner and dancing or something else that's a fun activity... There's been many a night that I've had fun on the date and still not had sex and still thought it was a great evening...
If a person is "counting" dates to sex then how much fun can they be having on the date...?
What are they going to be like once they've landed the girl...? They obviously don't like going on dates... so they're going to end up as couch potatoes... then they wonder why sex in a relationship dwindles away....
As a guy with a long term G/F, dating is still a big part of OUR lives... we still go out, we still go dancing and we still have fun... everyday she is streated like a lady and she treats me in kind....and we still have lots of sex together... | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/27/2009 6:20:07 PM | Dude, I'm not saying I don't enjoy dating, not at all! If you read the whole post, I'm saying I'm not interested in casual sex. I do enjoy going out on a date and having a good time as much as anyone does. However, I also do prefer to get to know someone before I sleep with them and determine that they are someone of good moral character and also someone I'd like to keep spending time with, and who would also like to keep spending time with me...doing things other than sex, as well as sex.
If they only want to have sex with me, I don't want to spend time with them, so I prefer to figure that out before I've slept with them, not after!
If they aren't someone that I want to continue spending time with I certainly don't want to have sex with them and have them yapping about it all over town or find out the next day that they are married and lied about it... REPEATEDLY.
Believe me, there are plenty of men with no class that actually do chit like that, it 's happened more than once, it won't happen again! How would you feel if you went out on your third or fouth date and some guy came up to you and just happened to mention to you that he slept with the chick you are with a few weeks ago and proceeded to describe what a great time he had... nice hey???
So yeah, I prefer to get to know people know and make sure they have some integrity and common decency before I sleep with them... there are just a lot of really good reasons for doing that. None of them have anything to do with your idea that I might not like dating. | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 10/27/2009 7:09:23 PM |
Believe me, there are plenty of men with no class that actually do chit like that, it 's happened more than once, it won't happen again! How would you feel if you went out on your third or fouth date and some guy came up to you and just happened to mention to you that he slept with the chick you are with a few weeks ago and proceeded to describe what a great time he had... nice hey???
Yeah, I know... I've had that happen with my current girlfriend... guys who she was with before we met... rubbing it in....no fun at all... | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:25:29 PM | This was recently in the News, and the Married Couple was on National Television...
The couple never had unprotected sex until they were married. Once they had unprotected intercourse, the wife discovered that she was extremely allergic to her husband's seminal fluids! The condition is called seminal hyperplasma sensitivity.
So if a man/woman EXPECTED sex by the 3 rd date, or any date afterwards, to be sure that she did not have this medical allergy to the man's semen, would you date him/her ? | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:55:15 PM | | Humm....been married long time..no expectations on any date..guess i will know when the time feels right. It would be a huge bummer to be intimate with a woman to find out she's allergic to your spunk...like what happen"s her throat closes and she can't breathe??? | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:00:00 PM | " Humm....been married long time..no expectations on any date..guess i will know when the time feels right. It would be a huge bummer to be intimate with a woman to find out she's allergic to your spunk...like what happen"s her throat closes and she can't breathe??? "
AOL Health: People with human seminal plasma hypersensitivity can be allergic to all semen or the unique proteins in just one individual's.
Personally, I would want to know if a woman that I was interested in, had that condition...and as far as I know, there's only one way to find out, other than going into a Labratory.
Compatible sex is an important part of a mature, adult relationship to me | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:02:20 PM | | that was on the Dr. Phil show can't believe I just admitted seeing that........ anyway maybe their are rules over there, no most guys expect sod all and that when if they get nothing they are not dissapointed. Why 3rd date, what happens then is their like oh god this is our third date did you bring condoms............. this for real????? all I can say is get me a damn plane ticket and fast.............. but to the young guy who thinks he does not pay for sex................ oh god mate will you get a life shock soon.......... you always pay and just hope it does not cost you everything | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 11/11/2009 11:27:42 AM | First Mistake EXPECT IT!!
I think that, if you are comfortable with each other and the chemistry is there and the feeling of a compatiability is there both in mind and body go for it!! Mind you I think it takes more than a couple of hours to get there. I have found the ones I have had a an instant attraction to were the ones I had the best and honest relationship with!! It also depends on what you did on those dates were you intantly comfortable, felt like you had known each other had the same values.
Of course we should remember safe sex is the only way to go!! In these days you almost have to go to together to be tested!!
Which is why I have been along time since I have had the expierence LOL!!
In the end to me it does matter how many dates you have what matters is what you are feeling so 3 to 120 dates. Life is a JOurney take the first step!!! | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 11/11/2009 11:54:39 AM | I have to admit I haven’t read this whole thread. However I think "expecting" sex by the third date is REALY dumb.
Personally I don’t get involved with someone unless I truly believe there is a future for us in that relationship (IE Long term/ marriage) and adding sex to the mix too early in a relation ship just muddies the waters. Sex: no matter how casual or non-meaning full you want to make it, is still an EXTREAMLY emotional affair. (Even on a sub-conscience level)
So why in the world would you want to make the decision process orders of magnitude harder by adding some thing as strong a sex? I mean by the third date you don’t even have a real good grip on the person’s personality, none the less a good grip on whether you two are compatible/good for each other.
I don’t know, maybe I’m just strange but I won’t have sex with some one before 8-10 dates. I just think sex is not the foundation of a successful relationship.
PS yes my rules for myself have caused “issues”, but I look at it this way—If we are good for one another there is PLENTY of time for that.
Adam | |
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| A Twist on EXPECTING Sex by the 3 rd date. Would You Date Her/Him ?
Posted: 11/13/2009 1:31:41 PM | Your fishing in the wrong pond cause women like me are out there. We want, love, embrace, and cherish sexual escapades almost to an extreme.
That does not make me a BAD person, insecure, looking for love in the wrong places, or what ever label someone want to put on it. I know what I want, like, turns me on, and desire from a sexual partner. I have met a special guy and lets see where it goes. I wouldn't have given him the time of day if he didn't bang me on our second date though. Put out or get out is my motto and will continue to be. Nothing like great sex!!! | |
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