| Why is it that apparently any type of music is deemed as acceptable apart from metal
Posted: 11/1/2009 6:41:46 PM | I worked for a while in a venue that promoted a 'grunger' type night, allowing young bands to showcase their talents for a very small or non-existent price.
Having been around the music scene a long time and seen a lot of bands ........... rich, famous, poor and infamous  I am tolerant of, and enjoy many kinds of music........ however the thrash metal that these kids seemed to play made my ears want to bleed.
And that comment comes from someone who went home deaf from being too near the speakers at a Thin Lizzy concert and my first live gig was T.Rex just after they shortened from Tyrannasaurus Rex  | |
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| Why is it that apparently any type of music is deemed as acceptable apart from metal
Posted: 11/1/2009 7:39:05 PM | Personally I like a lot of the industrial/metal crossover stuff like KMFDM, Ministry, NIN etc. Also every now and then I like a little slayer to blow out the cobwebs.
For me tbh I don't like music by genre, I either like what I hear or not.
This of course isn't answering your question, in attempt to do so...
Could part of it perhaps be cultural (or rather.. sub-cultural) the whole cliche lifestyle that is associated (rightly or wrongly) with metal ? i.e. drugs, booze, fast women ?
After all many people like some metal and don't even realise it, a couple of examples (off the top of my head) are Tone Locs 'Wild Thing' or Michael Jacksons 'Beat it' and 'Dirty Diana', all pop songs where metal is heavilly featured.
Maybe Spinal Tap have a lot to answer for ? | |
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| Why is it that apparently any type of music is deemed as acceptable apart from metal
Posted: 11/2/2009 2:24:20 AM |
on the whole i think it's because metal sucks the most
Did I miss the meeting where you were appointed spokesperson for the entire human race for all matters in relation to music taste?
No ... but i think you missed the meeting about reading posts ... i think, being my opinion as opposed to, as spokesman for the entire human race i have been appointed to inform you that metal sucks the most ....... maybe you were headbanging or airguitaring at the time ..... two of the most ridiculous things ever, even worse than line-dancing
there must be a reason why people will listen to all kinds of music from far and wide apart from metal .... the fact that folk will listen to country and western, rap or jazz but won't listen to metal should tell you something .... | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/2/2009 7:59:17 AM | Well said.
I would personally add that a lot of the people drawn to musical extremes, particularly in their teenage years are often trying too hard to be different, self loathing or it simply isnt about the music its about the look and the scene.
A lot of these hard forms are about shocking people and stickng 2 fingers up to the establishment. They may be seen as overtly negative rather than representing a positive (abeit just as likely to be naive etc etc) outlook thast say mainstream pop or less hardcore genres suggest.
For me making yourself ugly and listening to music that most find ugly is the issue here far more than anything else. A lot of people will ask why you are drawn to that. | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:36:12 AM |
there must be a reason why people will listen to all kinds of music from far and wide apart from metal .... the fact that folk will listen to country and western, rap or jazz but won't listen to metal should tell you something .... Yes there is a reason....because they don't want to 'go there' most likely. It's about being "unleashed" and some people prefer to remain on their leash where they are comfortable and used to.
I would personally add that a lot of the people drawn to musical extremes, particularly in their teenage years are often trying too hard to be different, self loathing or it simply isnt about the music its about the look and the scene. The bands that do that are crap. Try listening to the ones who do it out of philosophy or a higher goal.
A lot of these hard forms are about shocking people and stickng 2 fingers up to the establishment. Oh you mean like all that music in the 60's? Oh wait that wasn't metal........
Just because some cannot "digest" it doesn't mean it's crap. Maybe it means your "stomach" is weak. If anybody wants some recommendations on some quality bands to sway their opinion feel free to message me. | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:55:35 AM |
A lot of these hard forms are about shocking people and stickng 2 fingers up to the establishment.
A bit difficult to stick 2 fingers up to the establishment in an 'art form' that has been around for almost 40 years and fills stadiums - it is part of the musical establishment. Ossy has TV docu-dramas around him etc etc.
For me if there's a problem with metal it's that the worst pub cover bands crank up the gain, crank up the overdrive, have a tone deaf singer who can't and think they can get away with it. Would they ever be capable of 'Crazy Train' or 'Nothing Else Matters' - err no. It's like all music - the best is superb and the worst is dire. | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/2/2009 3:22:55 PM |
No ... but i think you missed the meeting about reading posts ... i think, being my opinion as opposed to, as spokesman for the entire human race i have been appointed to inform you that metal sucks the most ....... maybe you were headbanging or airguitaring at the time ..... two of the most ridiculous things ever, even worse than line-dancing
there must be a reason why people will listen to all kinds of music from far and wide apart from metal .... the fact that folk will listen to country and western, rap or jazz but won't listen to metal should tell you something ....
Inform me? All you are informing me of is your sheer lack of grasp of the subject at hand.
The fact that you think that stating your subjective opinion on music is informative in any way shape or form in relation to this topic is laughable at best.
I would personally add that a lot of the people drawn to musical extremes, particularly in their teenage years are often trying too hard to be different, self loathing or it simply isnt about the music its about the look and the scene.
A lot of these hard forms are about shocking people and stickng 2 fingers up to the establishment. They may be seen as overtly negative rather than representing a positive (abeit just as likely to be naive etc etc) outlook thast say mainstream pop or less hardcore genres suggest.
Only one thing you have said here has even a slither of meaning to it.
If being into metal sets me apart from the mainstream drones that are only things that are widely socially acceptable i.e. the Mainstream rubbish that pollutes our airwaves then I am more than glad to be different. However to say that the reason I am into metal is to TRY to be different is a complete fallacy especially when you take into account the fact that I didnt get into proper heavy metal till my early 20's.
The only music that was designed as two fingers up to the establishment was Punk. Not Metal. There may have been cross overs in the years but I challenge you to find ONE actual metal band whose definitive purpose was to be anti-establishment.
For me making yourself ugly and listening to music that most find ugly is the issue here far more than anything else. A lot of people will ask why you are drawn to that.
Again, this is completely subjective and is based on your opinion. Just because you think the look is ugly and the sound is ugly, doesnt mean it IS ugly to everyone else. | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/3/2009 2:16:29 AM | hi octo.
i don`t know me foo fighters from me papa roach,
but my daughter is well into all this(i hear it every day).but there is always one song from every band she likes,i think is good(slipknot)vermillion part 2,is lovely.febuary stars,foo fighters.
she went to the download festival this year,and loved it.
we still laugh at the thought of her best friend going into the mosh pit..(in her flip-flops).
i quiet like a band called gomez..its more me. | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/3/2009 4:55:07 AM |
Inform me? All you are informing me of is your sheer lack of grasp of the subject at hand.
The fact that you think that stating your subjective opinion on music is informative in any way shape or form in relation to this topic is laughable at best.
Enough!!
People are free to hold an opinion on metal (or any other genre) without having to have listened to every metal track ever recorded. It's pointless advising someone to listen to the Grinder version of I Love You So Much I Can't Shit Properly in the hope that they'll change their mind, because it won't happen.
Some people don't like it, and hold negative views upon it and those who do - they are free to hold those views without someone else telling them that they cannot hold those views.
I'm a fan of the genre, but plenty of it sucks, and I'm able to exercise my judgment and not listen to the rubbishy things.
People who permanently dress as though they are just coming back from a gig (and probably smelling like they have) aren't going to impress too many people. Immersing oneself in a lifestyle that some find scruffy will alienate others, and with good reason.
So, OP, just accept the fact that people hold negative views on metal fans, and try and understand the reasons that they have offered, rather than trying to convert them.
Now, where's my Grinder cd..... | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/3/2009 10:19:16 AM | ^^^^ Ooooooo don't ya just love it when Zeegary goes all authoritarian (hope that's the correct word Z )
I hate to say it, but he is right though.
Everybody 123 MOSH | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/3/2009 10:50:06 AM | Massive metal and death metal fan here. Note I do not look like a "metal head" - most people actually say I "cant" like that type of music because I don't look the part.
This is one of the the biggest problems with the perceptions of metal, and I'm afraid it's very true. Most people that listen to metal are cookie cutter clones who wear all black, eyeliner, black dyed hair e.t.c. Most people take it beyond music and make into a social statement. A similar occurance happens with the rap / hip hop genres - the "gansta" look.
Secondly, ignorance of the genre also plays a large part. Most lay people simply can't comprehend whats going on in the music. There is an INSANE amount of talent that goes into creating a lot of metal (not all of it, but the good stuff).
We are talking the best guitarists, best drummers, best bassists and most ungodly vocalists to have ever existed on this planet, period. People who describe the music as "crap", "talentless" or "not music" are quite simply talking out of their arse.
Understanding of musical theory and preference for the genre of music should be totally independant. This is where people get confused, this is why death metal will never be accepted by the mainstream (similarly why quantum physics will never be a popular mainstream topic). | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/3/2009 10:56:39 AM | I just dont like it, emotionally it does nothing for me.
I dont care if it is made by the best bassist, drummer, singer or guitarist (didnt realise Jimmi H had come too life again) too me in my personnal taste and opinion sounds like people thrashing the living daylights out of the instruments with little thought(imo) and thats why I dont like it, similary with all the teeny bopper sh1te, but hurray for everbody who does variety is the spice of life.
I do however like a bit of Quantum physics the last albumn String Theory was blinding and complex :)
ps is Black Sabbath considered metal I like some of their stuff, I just thought they was rock! | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/3/2009 12:24:04 PM |
too me in my personnal taste and opinion sounds like people thrashing the living daylights out of the instruments with little thought
You've pretty much encapsulated what I was expressing in my post. Complexity is boggling to people who are used to simple ideas. Moreso, I'd hazard a guess that you simply haven't been exposed to the right type of bands (through no fault of your own might I add). There are some truly terrible bands - which are often only the ones that make it into "mainstream". Thus, to say that "metal" as a genre (with your limited experience of the genre in mind) is with little thought is a rather foolish statement.
The only way to argue your / my points are to post band lyrics / song examples - which I am willing to do if you so wish.
I'd classify Black Sabbath as old school rock. But genres can be interpreted loosley, there's no point trying to shoe-horn everything into a specific box.
p.s Jimmy H has been well and trully surpassed in terms of technical and compositional ability. | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/3/2009 1:18:49 PM |
I just dont like it, emotionally it does nothing for me. Tell me what emotion you are after and I'll recommend a band. | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/3/2009 2:43:56 PM | | Zeegary's post hits the nail on the head. Should've just locked the thread there! | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/4/2009 4:39:28 PM |
So, OP, just accept the fact that people hold negative views on metal fans, and try and understand the reasons that they have offered, rather than trying to convert them.
As if I would waste my time trying to convert people. People can like what they like.
However, the purpose of this thread wasn't so people could come and state whether or not they like metal or not as it has already been established on numerous occasions that musical taste is completely subjective and coming into this thread and stating ones subjective view on metal is not actually adding anything of purpose to the thread.
With that in mind, when someone comes in with a smart arse comment purely based on their subjective taste then I defend my right to show them the fault in their argument and steer things back on topic. | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:17:08 PM | | Octo, to be frank you're wasting your time with this thread. For some odd reason most people cannot seem to differentiate between subjectivity / objectivity, specifically when it comes to music or art. Logic seems to completely vanish whenever this topic is brought up. | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/5/2009 4:29:21 AM |
Octo, to be frank you're wasting your time with this thread. For some odd reason most people cannot seem to differentiate between subjectivity / objectivity, specifically when it comes to music or art. Logic seems to completely vanish whenever this topic is brought up.
What does 'logic' have to do with 'emotion'?
The topic concerns the negative feelings that some people have towards those who like listening to metal. Some have indicated that the very sound of the stuff puts them off, so they are hardly likely to date someone who likes it, especially if they immerse themselves in it. So, the OP and others have chosen to address the negative feelings towards the music, which is a pointless exercise. | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/5/2009 4:45:39 AM | Nowhere did anyone state that everyone had to enjoy metal. We are well aware that people have different tastes in music (subjectivitiy / emotion). The point me, the OP and a few other posters were trying to get across is the lack of objectivity concerning the genre. i.e:
"It's $hit"
"It's not music"
"Sounds like people hitting things randomly"
"Talentless"
All of which reek of a basic misunderstanding of the music on a logical (objective) basis. Yes, music can be judged objectively, just as art, film e.t.c can. My argument concerns the disconnect between the "objective appreciation" of metal (mentioned previously) based on ones subjective dislike (personal taste) of the music.
To sum up: one should still be able to appreciate a genre of music on an objective level, dispite their own personal tastes. Similarly, I do not enjoy listening to rap music, but I can appreciate the talent that goes into creating some of the lyrics and skill required to recite them at speed.
I will never say "it is not music" simply because I do not personally enjoy it. And yes, before you say it, some bands can be truly terrible on an objective level - I just felt it neccesary to state this before anyone negated my entire argument based on this point. | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:35:18 AM |
All of which reek of a basic misunderstanding of the music on a logical (objective) basis. Yes, music can be judged objectively, just as art, film e.t.c can. My argument concerns the disconnect between the "objective appreciation" of metal (mentioned previously) based on ones subjective dislike (personal taste) of the music.
So, people's dislike of a genre is based upon what tracks they've heard?
Sounds about right!
"It's $hit"
"It's not music"
"Sounds like people hitting things randomly"
"Talentless"
And who are we to disagree with those opinions?
No matter what the criteria used to arrive at those conclusions, they are entitled to hold them and not be subjected to comments designed to change that opinion unless they so desire.
To sum up: one should still be able to appreciate a genre of music on an objective level, dispite their own personal tastes. Similarly, I do not enjoy listening to rap music, but I can appreciate the talent that goes into creating some of the lyrics and skill required to recite them at speed.
Fine, if that works for you. Others are free to not hold that view.
I will never say "it is not music" simply because I do not personally enjoy it.
God, I do! Yes, a track might technically be 'music', but that's like claiming a pile of bricks to be 'art'. Some people even consider 'silence' to be 'music'..
Anyway, the OP asked about the negative feelings people have to those who like metal, not the music itself. | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:52:02 AM |
but that's like claiming a pile of bricks to be 'art'
And who are you to say it's not?
H.x | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:54:54 AM | Anyway, the OP asked about the negative feelings people have to those who like metal, not the music itself.
Why is it that apparently any type of music is deemed as acceptable apart from metal
OK, first off, I did a thread search on this topic and yes there was one, but it was closed for drifting off topic and also I wanted to discuss it in a more general forum and not a polarised one such as the Art/Music forum so all you forum nazis can stop typing up your redundant generic diatribes about doing a thread search ummmmmmm..........right now.
Onto the actual topic.
As a metal fan it becomes extremely frustrating when reading the phrase "I am into all kinds of music...apart from heavy metal". It's crazy just how many people appear to share this sentiment.
What I don't quite understand is, why?
Is this a fashion thing? Is it seen as being too outrageous to be into music that doesn't get played on mainstream radio?
So I pose these questions to you, the ever knowledgeable, all knowing Plenty Of Freaks UK forum users.
What is it about heavy metal that makes it divide opinions the way it does?
Why is it that apparently any type of music is deemed as acceptable apart from metal?
Does someone saying they like all kinds of music apart from heavy metal actually mean they are more close minded than someone who says they only like one particular kind of music?
Thanks for any input.
Not sure which part of that post refers to people having negative feelings about those who like metal, it seems to be asking questions about why people don't like the music.
I have even dedicated a whole sentence on my profile to this very question 
And whilst not wishing to repeat myself, lots of musical genres are subjected to the "I like all music except ...." statement.
A bit like saying "I like all men who wear Aftershave except Hugo Boss", or "I like all women apart from those called Sharon"*.
HTH
* no offense intended to those women called Sharon, or indeed those men who wear that scent of Essex. | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:37:50 AM |
And who are you to say it's not?
Provide the comment where I claimed that it isn't, and we'll discuss...
Not sure which part of that post refers to people having negative feelings about those who like metal, it seems to be asking questions about why people don't like the music.
The OP makes his position clearer in MSGs 45 and 52, when he starts to talk about the personalities of those involved.
People who don't like metal will be less likely to have a relationship with someone who does, and stating this on the profile will lead to fewer wasted emails. Let's face it, there is a negative stereotype of the average metal fan that some would rather not have to encounter.
Oh, and check MSG 94, written by the OP:
However, the purpose of this thread wasn't so people could come and state whether or not they like metal ....
HTH | |
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| Apart From Metal.
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:49:54 AM | | why is it so hard to accept that nobody apart from metal-heads likes metal ..... and nobody other than another metal-head is going to be attracted to a metal-head .... who wants to date someone who thinks air guitaring is cool ..... lete face it not even the late greatr freddie mercury could make it look cool and when celine dion starts doing it you know that it's all over ... the fat lady has sung, or in this case the skinny lady with the over-sized head | |
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