| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 3:46:16 PM | Yes, and why the hell not - it's a lifestyle choice, so why shouldn't it be used to analyse someone?
It's not necessarily a lifestyle choice so judging someone by their weight is making presumptions about their personality which is very ignorant. Just because some people don't try to lose weight doesn't mean everyone is the same. You're generalising and pre-judging before you know the full story. They could have gained weight for any number of reasons and yet you're branding them lazy and unworthy instantly without thinking there might be a genuine reason.
Do you make instant judgments on thin people too? What do you think about them? | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:17:18 PM | In the large majority of cases obesity IS a choice.
Yes, there ARE medical conditions which mean that weight gain CAN be an issue. This issue can be reduced, or completely removed, by eating less (and, if the condition allows, exercising more).
It is therefore entirely up the the employer if he/she wants to employ someone who choses to be overweight. They'd be silly to take on someone who has made a choice to become unfit/unable to do the job, wouldn't they?
And before anyone starts: I am not skinny, but I have to really work at not being fat. Always have had to, since I was 15. If I made a choice to let myself be obese then I could be within months. I make the choice not to. So I DO understand how hard it is, and how it feels to be hungry all the time. So there. | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:25:59 PM | SJS if you are hungry all the time then you are not eating a healthy balanced diet. What way is that to live?
As for not being fit to do the job.......what happens if they take on a skinny person who then gets fat.......should they have the right to fire them? Would that include a woman who get's pregnant? Surely we fought for years against that kind of discrimination? | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:30:44 PM | First of all, I'd like to ask who this "PC brigade" that I keep hearing so much about, are?
They sound like some sort of 'para-military' organisation, and I'm not sure I'd let someone like that near my computer, especially if they're on horseback!
Secondly, I'd also like to confess to being a fat bloke trapped inside a thin body,
and it's bloody uncomfortable!
Who's Fatist?
Are you saying I'm fatist?
No you're fatist.
I think there should be no discrimination, they should be allowed to become jockeys if they like.
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:30:52 PM | There are two types of alcoholics, functioning alcoholics and those who have given up on life or on that road to oblivion. The same I think exists for fat/obese people there are many who are active, able and are presentable and would be just like any other applicant just fatter. To me a functioning lardy and then there are the slovenly morbidly obese that have given up on life and eating themselves to death.
The functioning alcoholic and fat person are mainly in their predicament because of excess and emotional issues and whilst neither deserves sympathy do they not at least deserve some empathy and respect and equality? | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:35:51 PM |
SJS if you are hungry all the time then you are not eating a healthy balanced diet. Wrong. I have a condition which means that even though I eat a very healthy and extremely well balanced diet, I am still hungry. Even after a large meal, I am still hungry. It's constant.
What way is that to live? The only way I can. If I ate constantly to satisfy my hunger I'd already be dead by now.
Don't make ungrounded assumptions and judgements, now. OK?
As for thin people being employed? As a general rule, taking a sensible and well researched approach, people who are not obese are fitter than people who are obese. It's a simple choice for an employer.
Sacking people if they become obese is an entirely different issue (rather like sacking someone who has ANY condition which no longer permits them to effectively do what they are employed to do) | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:43:02 PM | do they not at least deserve some empathy and respect and equality?
empathy - yes
respect - no
equality - yes
I have no respect for any addict be they an
alcohol addict
a nicotine or any other form of drug addict
a food addict
and the simple reason I have no respect for them is that they have no respect for themselves. However when they do want to gain self respect I am the first one to encourage empathise and help as much as I can.
When they try hard to get there I have nothing but admiration respect and inspiration.
Disclaimer - there is of course always exemption for those with a specific recognised medical condition. | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:45:29 PM |
As for not being fit to do the job.......what happens if they take on a skinny person who then gets fat.......should they have the right to fire them? Would that include a woman who get's pregnant? Surely we fought for years against that kind of discrimination?
Employers do have the right to dismiss people who bec0me incapable of doing their job; the emphasis is on the employer to prove that the individual is no longer capable and that it is long - term and/or that the employee has not availed themselves of any opportunities to remedy any situation that could be remedied. Sensible employers often employ an occupational health specialist to review any situations that arise. An employee who becomes incapable can in many situations become a risk to their fellow employees.
What I don't understand is where pregnancy fits into a thread on being fat? It doesn't. | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:49:53 PM |
empathy - yes
respect - no
equality - yes
I have no respect for any addict be they an
alcohol addict
a nicotine or any other form of drug addict
a food addict
I agree entirely but I meant more respect as a person, their ability and their worth to society and as a person above their addiction. | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:49:57 PM | As for not being fit to do the job.......what happens if they take on a skinny person who then gets fat.......should they have the right to fire them? Would that include a woman who get's pregnant? Surely we fought for years against that kind of discrimination?
There are laws/guidelines specifically related to pregnant women when it comes to their jobs and if they cannot fulfill their role during pregnancy.
Also pregnancy is usually a condition that passes within 9 months give or take a couple of weeks, there are no such guarantees with the condition fat or obese. | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:51:12 PM |
I have no respect for any addict be they an
alcohol addict
a nicotine or any other form of drug addict
a food addict
In my book this all would be called illness and should be treated accordingly
No need for a respect or disrespect but need for a help by our society institutions. | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:55:29 PM | In my book this all would be called illness and should be treated accordingly
As I stated when help is sought yes these people should receive all the care avalaible, however you can not treat ANY addict successfully, unless they make the move and want to get help. | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:55:35 PM |
Employers do have the right to dismiss people who bec0me incapable of doing their job; the emphasis is on the employer to prove that the individual is no longer capable and that it is long - term and/or that the employee has not availed themselves of any opportunities to remedy any situation that could be remedied. Sensible employers often employ an occupational health specialist to review any situations that arise. An employee who becomes incapable can in many situations become a risk to their fellow employees.
I don't think anybody disagrees with this, as a fat person I certainly don't. Somebody though who is large and capable of doing the job advertised and is the best candidate and their size wouldn't interfere or hinder their ability to do the job should not be discriminated against because of their it.
The reason would be because of physical appearance and where would that end? ugly people not getting jobs, short people, bald people? | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 5:06:04 PM |
As I stated when help is sought yes these people should receive all the care avalaible, however you can not treat ANY addict unless they make the move and want to get help
For some things there is no help. For example smoking.
IMO smoking should be treated same as drug addiction, in hospitals, institutions, rehabs but IT ISN'T
I tried everything to quit smoking, champix, gums, patches, books, will power and I always failed.
This has nothing to do with a respect. I know many smokers who are VERY strong characters and I am one of them and who same time cannot quit
But if I had an opportunity to stay locked in a room for 6-7 days with no way of buying cigarettes of course I would quit.
If I asked my doctor to send me somewhere like this he would think I am mad. | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 5:23:02 PM | For some things there is no help. For example smoking.
I feel for your efforts which seem genuine however there has been millions of money poured into trying to get nicotine addicts the help needed.
There are many brands of patches and aids out there and every one will react differently with your body chemistry so you just have to keep trying and never give up trying to quit it is possible.
Ring the quit smoking lines, see your gp read up on brands and search the internet. Look for others in the same boat, maybe form a local self help group to encourage each other.
I have heard great results can be achieved by hypnosis but that would depend on finding a reputable one ( as they are not regulated centrally) who can introduce you to some successful people he has treated and get their take on it. Hypnosis must be cheaper than such an expensive and dangerous habit.
I truely do not know of anyone who has seriously wanted to quit and hasn't eventualy succeeded. Best of luck you are such a sweet lady please do not die early there are very few people in the world like you. | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 5:23:32 PM | Ok so we all have our own views on this subject but i would like to add mine, I am over weight and not by choice, no it is not because i eat the wrong foods infact quite the opposite i eat rather healthily and i exercise as much as i can and as often as i can. In 2000 I had a kidney transplant because both of my kidneys failed. Before i had my operation i was put onto slimming tablets by the doctors because no other method worked. I was not a over all big person before hand but some weight had to go due to putting some weight on carrying my son. As soon as i had the op i was put on steroids and i still am on them over 9 years later. Due to the medication i am on and have been since operation i have bec0me obese, not morbidly obese but i am over weight. Now the sad fact is that the weight will not drop of until i need another transplant and go back onto a dialysis machine whenever that maybe but it will happen. Transplants do not last forever. On top of this i fell down the stairs last year and damaged my back which has caused me to be out of work in which i hate. My point is to all those cynics out there, being overweight to some people is not a choice they have, its a part of their life and they have to live with it. The ones who over eat and cannot stop or choose not stop then i agree with others it is their choice. Although i hate being overweight i would choose being the size i am now over not being in this world at all or being kept going on a machine that takes up the best part of your life in order for me to survive. It really does infuriate me when people judge others by the way they look, their size, the colour of their skin. Employers may get to choose their employees but the choice of how we live as individuals can be taken away from us and not by choice either. I am a large woman and now proud to be this way THANKS DAD. My dad saved my life and donated his kidney to me and i love being me. Oh yeah and yes it can run in families My mum is a large woman but wasnt when she was younger due to medication and an operation she had 34 years ago, my sister was also big and has had trouble keeping her weight down and she is a health freak. Single minded no more needs to be said.
I mean no offence this is just my view on this subject. No harm intended to any one. | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 9:21:29 PM | This is riddiculas, Fat'ism really!!
Then what about Spot'ism, Ugly'ism, Blonde'ism, Tall'ism, Short'ism, Pointy-nose'ism,
Travel Agent'ism!!!
We wont ba able to speak soon - poxy do-gooders.. Op's Do-gooder'ism!!! | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 11:09:23 PM | ^^^^^^^ ooo you dont you dare start on spotism i have one on my chin , now i m gonna cry you have mad me sad for the day..........
BUT HEY COME ON PEOPLE LIVE AND LET LIVE ...... | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/19/2009 11:38:55 PM | 8 years ago I went for a position at avery large corporate company in London, I passed my interviews and was told I was the ideal candidate. I then went to meet the Director who was a man in his mid forties. Two days later I got a call to say that they have to apologise but someone else had been given the position, when I discussed it with the agency. She told me straight that apparently the Director wanted a slimmer woman, I was at that stage a size 22. My weight gain was due to despression and comfort eating.
I am now between a size 14 and 16 I will lose weight as my current weight gain is due to stress and a really bad year along with pnd.
As stated weight gain unless due to a medical condition is no excuse or anybody else problem other than our own laziness.
Are overweight/obese people to be treated as second class citizens, no they are not but lets be honest here. There is nothing more off putting than seeing an obese person huffing and puffing and waddling their way down the supermarket isles stuffing their trolleys with convenience food all because they can not be arse to cook a decent meal.
Weight issues are in my family genes hence I will make damn sure that my daughter never has to suffer with the stigma of being a bigger girl. | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/20/2009 2:27:02 AM |
Yes, and why the hell not - it's a lifestyle choice, so why shouldn't it be used to analyse someone?
Sure a lot of people have health problems, we have quite a few at my workplace who are seriously obsese and go on about health - but all of their problems have been brought about by being porky pigs, not the other way around.
One of the women I teach is a size 26, prior to losing one of her legs and arms thanks to a hit and run driver she was a size 14. Theres a lot of generalising in this thread. | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/20/2009 2:35:45 AM |
Unless you have actually tried to live in the world as a fat person you really have no idea what it feels like. I am by no means the fattest person in the world at a size 22 but to be told by the company that provides our corporate shirts at work that I would have to wear a man's shirt because they don't make women's blouses over a size 18 is a disgrace!
If a person's size means they are physically unfit for a job fair enough, but size should not be used as a means to discrimate against anyone!
And there we have it folks, the first fat-card has been pulled  | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/20/2009 3:04:39 AM |
One of the women I teach is a size 26, prior to losing one of her legs and arms thanks to a hit and run driver she was a size 14. Theres a lot of generalising in this thread
One of my friends is a size 10. She spends 85% of her time in a wheel chair. Prior to losing 80% of the strength in her legs due to having the bones crushed in a car accident and 60% of their motor function, she was a size 10. She exercises, diets and works. As stated, there's a lot of generalising in this thread. | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/20/2009 4:27:50 AM | I think it is ridiculous to suggest that people are unemployable due to their weight as a rule of thumb. Yes there are some situations where weight can be an issue, firepersons, service personel, fitness instructors but in general if someone can do the job required then weight should not come into it.
If someone is discriminated against purely due to their weight it is wrong but an employer should be able to employ who they want. If they are stupid enough to take on a skinny inexperienced person as opposed to an overweight person with years of experience then the employer will lose out.
Not every overweight person is the unhealthiest option. My daughter is probably classed as overweight since she had to take steroids for a medical condition. I normally am average but sometimes my weight drops drastically. My daughter leads a much healthier life than I do. She trained as a physical fitness intructor prior to her illness and steroids. I don't know what she weighs but she is a 16+ and gaining. If she stops the steroids she loses weight and becomes so ill that she can barely get out of bed.
I have been a lazy git for the past 10 years. I smoke, probably drink too much, eat whatever I want which rarely includes fruit or veg etc and spend my days sitting down without taking any real excersise. My weight has never gone about about 10 stone, I average a size 10/12.
If we were set against each other in a fitness test - I'd guarantee she would come out tops BUT if it was based on work experience/ability, I would be a better choice.
Ability and experience is what any sensible employer should go by | |
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| fat-ism, the next one for the pc brigade?
Posted: 10/20/2009 10:22:07 AM |
8 years ago I went for a position at avery large corporate company in London, I passed my interviews and was told I was the ideal candidate. I then went to meet the Director who was a man in his mid forties. Two days later I got a call to say that they have to apologise but someone else had been given the position, when I discussed it with the agency. She told me straight that apparently the Director wanted a slimmer woman, I was at that stage a size 22. My weight gain was due to despression and comfort eating
can I ask why neither you or the agency took this company to court? It is illegal to discriminate.......to say he wanted a "slimmer" woman was bad enough..but the fact that he said he wanted a "woman" was totally illegal and I would have thought the agency would have been very quick to pick up on this fact.
During an interview, one of my friends clients was asked how she would cope having young children and all the travel the post she was applying for involved. She stopped the interview, asked if any of the male candidates had been asked the same question, walked out and went straight to her solicitor. They ended up paying out £30k in compensation!
At no time during the recruitment process should age or gender be discussed...in fact you shouldn't even put your DOB on your CV or application forms. | |
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