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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 9:37:33 PM |
400 a month wouldn't cover the daycare on just one of my little ones.
How much does it cost to purchase diapers these days? Formula?
I can see a cp sending a fully stocked diaper bag with an infant/toddler and having an empty one returned -- in that case the cp bears the full cost of diapers, wipes and formula.
400/month would have only barely paid for daycare for my oldest. I paid $75-85/week 17 years ago. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:00:34 PM | | Raising kids is expensive. the teen needs braces, 2000,my sons glasses were 200, not cover on insurance because he needed special frames (extra small) and polycarbonate lens that aren't covered. the girls need computers and internet for school. to me cable is a luxury I could do without but the kids should be able to have it. clothes and shoes don't last long, they ruin them and outgrow them. school supplies are outragous, I spent 100 just on the teen to get in school(public school). Most schools here have to have uniforms. Wouldn't need as big of house. The electric bill is around 300 a month, when no kids was under a hundred. have to have acar now, used to ride my bike.I spend close to1000 a month on food(for the 5 of us), so about 200 for food per kid.Plus all the work it takes to raise them why should just one be changing diapers and cleaning and cooking etc. I never had so much work to do at home. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining , just answering your question. sitters aren't free. Zoos, skating rinks, museums, amusment parks aren't free. Shoot just going to mcdonalds costs me at least 25 dollars. feild trips at school twice a month, 30 dollars plus lunch on those days. And what about personal hygene, hair cuts, etc. not to mention the teen, lol. Got to get their hair and nails done, plus the hair and skin products. Oh they have to have furniture too. they out grow the expensive crib and need a toddler bed and then a twin later on. They need dressers and desks, bikes and skate boards. They need cheer leading outfits and girlscout uniforms. I think they deserve a nice dinner out every once in a while, right? Say twice a month, that costs me over a 100 each time(I know, I have 4), so 50 a month for a nice dinner out. For the babies you'll need Formula, at least 50 a month. car seats, stroller, high chair, blankets, bottles, they out grow the infant car seat then need a bigger one then they outgrow that and need a booster seat,oh thekid may want a walker and some toys. the get older and might want an Ipod, or a camera, or a guitar, oh and parties aren't cheap at all. The teen needs PE uniforms, oh and special calculaters for math.girl teen wants some jewlery too, I'm sure you have some, shouldn't she be able to have ear rings and maybe a necklace and maybe a braclet? Oh a watch, and an alarm clock. I could keep going but I thin k you get my point. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:57:33 PM | $50 a month for formula? Its like 35 a large can of powder of 40 something a case of 12 concentrate. That lasts maybe a week? (thats why I nurse mine much cheaper and healthier).
Diapers about 17 - 18 a package, and a package generally lasts a week to a week and a half,. Then there is the baby food like the cereal and stuff once they hit 6 months, they constantly grow out of clothes at that age.
I must say yes it is expensive. I have done it all myself, the father has not contributed a cent, nor will he. He was ordered to pay $200 a month but have not seen anything yet as he is disputing the child being his because he assumes that he screwed around meant I did to. I didn't of course. He refuses to get a DNA test done, so that has been court ordered so now we have to sit and wait until they can actually find him since he ducks them and even has his friends lie for him.
I bet in a few months I will hear the new girlfriend is pregnant as he told her he had a vasectomy which he has not, but she is too stupid to believe him
Bet at least half the single mother bashers though would think this guy does no wrong and its all the woman's fault. After all he lied to them, so that makes him ok. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/23/2009 11:08:32 PM | [I don't know how practical it would be, but I would love to see a set amount per child for support that doesn't vary by income. Then that amount is the child support amount, any additional amount applied for could be classified as spousal support. Just a thought]
Not necessarily a bad thought, but it doesn't account for cost of living, or the fact that one's standard of living varies by income level. As a practical matter, even, don't you think that you provide more for your children as you make more? If you were still married, wouldn't you buy them more expensive clothing, or a "better" toy, sign them up for that gymnastics class they always wanted to take but you couldn't afford? I am not trying to start an argument (really, I'm not; FYI, I haven't even requested an increase in CS since its' inception 4 yrs. ago,), but is there no allowance at all for the increase in the living standard for the children, as an aside to the increase to the parent? What I'm trying to point out is that, for the most part, the tables leading to the percentage of income applied for CS are pretty fair, when you relate them to the percentage spent on the children when you were a couple. Not to ignore the fact that for many who pay CS, they see the monies as a "gift" to the custodial parent (the remedy for which could be an accounting, and I don't have a problem with that).True, it is more expensive to run two households, but that is the failing of the parents, not the children. Mathematically, you can qualify for a mortgage that amounts to roughly 28% of your gross income, so if you lay out 21% of your income (depending on the # of kids & the state in which you live ), you have half of that money with which to budget. Honestly, I feel that raising children is a sacrifice, and that includes the financial, something that parents who are not together (both mothers & fathers) often fail, or worse, cease to acknowledge when their relationship goes sour. Just a thought. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/24/2009 2:41:14 AM | | When I said $400, I was thinking more in terms of what I have to pay for myself. Wasn't really thinking about other people. The $436 from his dad plus my income is sufficient, but then again I don't have to pay for daycare, which I know is a huge cost. Diapers are about $100/month, I get most of my formula from WIC but still spend about $30/month since they don't give me enough, between clothes, toys, baby food, powders and lotions, that's about $100-150 a month, since I get all his clothes used, and as a 6 month old there's only so many toys he can actually work. Right now I'm actually really stocked up on everything, I came into some money so I used it so stock up on everything, so I really won't need to use the c/s check to buy a whole lot, meaning I can put it in savings for him. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/24/2009 4:00:43 AM | @ohwhynot, Your scenario is right in that yes if you were a couple you would see an indrease or upscaling of the standard of living for the kids as a result of career climbling but it happens more from the only having ONE houshold, ONE set of bills, ONE budget that changes from month to month.
A married couple will never have to aquire a his and her set of EVERYTHING if they live in the same house. Imagine if you had to have identical living quarters? All those purchases that occur after a separation do account to the lack of economic rising, it takes away that double payment that could have been made on a mortgage each year. This running two households is so damaging to any sort of rise in stature but gets absolutely no bearing in the discussion and was completely overlooked as far as how the child support thing would have worked out as a system in the first place.
So it is no wonder that if an unwed woman who decides to keep the child of a reluctant man who will only pay what the law makes him will have such a hard road ahead of them because if a couple who pulls in 80,000 - 1oo,ooo complains that money is tight, how does she even consider keeping a child. Who is covering the real expense - the village?
Just ask the female lobby groups what they went through to get the laws they have in place now. Few politicians want to hack out the neccesary changes when there are much more voter friendly things to get their picture in the paper for.
The cs per month can't possibly be spent on the child everymonth but with the incidentals that superdad mentioned that some months can be hell for the unexpected. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/24/2009 4:56:18 AM | Here is an abbreviated answer to your question and it applies to the Federal Child Support Act of 1989, and it was adopted by many states, NY being one of them.....
"the basic child support obligation is equal to the COMBINED income of the parentS, it is mulitiplied by a percentage based upon the number of children. The total support obligation is then divided between the parents in proportion to their respective incomes. The percentages are 1 child 17%, 2 children 25%, 3 children 29% 4 children 31% AND 5 or more 35%....there are 8 allowable deductions that are taken into consideration when figuring income....
The above is taken right out of my NYS family law text book....so it can not be disputed....other issues regarding taxes, healthcare, schooling and other expenses should have all bee hammered out in a separation agreement prior to getting to this point....
I have seen many guy (maybe woment too) get screwed on this so hire a great attorny...
and as far as being unemployed or underemployed...if you get the wrong Judge...they don't care....and my thought is - do you stop loving your children if you stop loving their mother....probably not....so don't be an ass and screw your kids...... | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/24/2009 5:35:54 AM | Singlesuperdad;
No arguement from me about the how expensive it is to raise children. Braces for me were $5200 & &5,500 with insurance/benefits only covering $1,000 on each. I picked up the rest. Daycare is expensive as is before and after school care. But this along with the braces in Canada considered above the monthly cs figure.
But when I made the choice to have children I realized there would be some sacrifice on my part and I would not have the same disposable income for myself to enjoy.
Need is a very difficult determination for many people. There is no need for sports and the attributed costs that are part of the equation. And I say that even having a child who is now training at a very high level in one sport and had to leave two other sports behind where she was asked to train at the Provincial level. There was a shortage of money and time...as in me driving the required 2hrs to the training centre's.
Need is a place to sleep and a food every day. Many or your arguments of clothes...bikes...cost of electricity...furniture...desks...beds are something that most non custodial parents also face if they are going to have a meaningful relationship with their children.
Where is your arguement about their consideration or situation. I happen to prefer consideration for both sides....and not having a position of power due to being in the role of custodial parent.
My ex needs a home where she can have the children when they so desire.
Now in Canada we do not have the smart energy...like they seem to have in other area's...the cost of heating a your home....is relatively the same if you have just yourself or have 5 people. The damn heat is unable to discern where it can or cannot go here. And unlike one custodial father....I doubt the fridge getting opened a few more times makes that much of a difference.
Sorry but I have to run...The taxi service is required again. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/24/2009 5:48:31 AM | One of the major flaws in the CS system is that originally it was influenced by the small percentage of those that did not step up to the plate as opposed to those that did do the right thing. If one looks into the numbers the failure rate of of payors is small when compared to those that do pay but because the lobbyists concentrated on the nonpayors those laws now affect everyone and do not discriminate.
You watch any show or debate about this issue and those facts are dismissed and the focus is always centred on the few and not the majority. Lawyers now concentrate on getting the best deal for their client, they are not concerned about how this affects the kids either.
The other major flaw is (especially here in Canada) is that for those that are in the clutches of provincial collection orgs. that there is no compromise or rationalle. they are strictly a collection agency but with powers that can financially ruin a man if he cannot make the payments on time, further hindering his ability to make payments.
I think once the program has been set up with these organizations they should have also the powers to make adjustments in real time and not force payors to go back to the courts. This process takes too much time because they are swept into the overworked family court system and by then it could be late for an NCP who has lost their job or had their hours reduced.
I know of how this works because it is something I have been wrestling with since the moment my divorce was finalized. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/24/2009 6:24:59 AM | Here is a link to how Ohio does it..and a chart that says how much u would get each year based on the combined incomes of both parents. As far as I know, the only thing they factor in is other child support payments, health insurance costs, and taxes.
http://www.divorcenet.com/states/ohio/ohio_child_support_chart
Personally I don't feel that the first child should be getting more support then any other child support is being paid for. It doesn't cost more to raise little Johnny then it does to raise little Suzie. They should all get the same amount. I get about 200 more than my ex's ex wife, but her's was calculated a few years ago and in addition to his income going up, some of the laws have also changed since then. She is taking him back to court, so I hope they up hers to the same amount as mine. In Ohio, child support cases are reviewed every 3 years, so her getting more could effect mine, but he'd have to take me to court before that 3 years is up if he wants to get it modified-even then, it's not likely the judge will modify it, and that's coming straight from the person who did our support order at child support. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/24/2009 8:55:31 AM | tealwood, well I agree with you, but the situations are different in different cases. My figures come mostly from my situation where the mom can't take the kids anywhere. So she doesn't need any of the things to care for a kid or kids. It's all on me but I'm not complaining. I enjoy my kids but I've been working to care for them with nothing going in my pocket for so long it's time for a change. In the past 3 years I haven't bought any thing for me, clothes, shoes, nothing. So now it's time to do a little for me and to see their mom buying all kinds of crap for herself gets a little frustrating.It isn't really right that she says here take the kids I don't want them and does nothing to care for them but when it's convienent for her she want s to go shopping with them etc. She gets mad because I hold to the court order and don't allow her to take them. She buys them things she know they can't have and makes me take it away. That has all stopped now but it was hell for alot of years.
oops getting side tracked.
I see alot of non cp complain about CS saying the CP is spending it on themselves which is mostly no the case. If the cp kept the receipts it would probably add to more than double the CS they receive. And in some cases like mine none is received and the non cp want previledged the court hasn't allowed.
I know it really sucks for alot of non cps out there and thats sad but it also suck for alot of cp out there to which is sad. Everyone comes on here arguing about this from the experiences they got from their situation which may really suck and it's hard to see it from the others point of view and understand that they may have gone through HELL!!! This causes them to be a bit judgemental which is very understandable. we don't know all these people on here or the hell they've been through so it's hard to judge them. If we knew their case we would probably say ok I see why you are upset with the situation. well enough for now, peace | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/26/2009 9:10:39 AM | Deanlistmom - I'm not sure if your comments were in general, or if they were all directed towards me. If they were directed to me I would just suggest you reread the thread as I think you must have misunderstood something I posted.
SingleSuperDad - The majority of the things you are citing would fall outside of the basic CS amounts (certainly here in Canada). You are a good example of why I stated early on in this thread that this topic is hard to generalize as there are a lot of unique situations, such as yours.
ohwhynot46 - The children see the fruits of my successes whether I was still married to their mother or not. CS is supposed to be basic needs support though as I am to understand, not "have to have the best of the best" support. If, for example, the CS recipient wants to buy brand name clothing instead of generic brands then IMO they should be responsible for paying the higher amount; just as the CS payer would have to pay the higher amount themselves. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/26/2009 9:20:36 AM | | Yes Cs and welfare can't really be compaired from here to canada. It just starts arguements because we don't know your system and vise versa. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/27/2009 4:25:06 PM | I’m going to try my math skills out. Please keep in mind that these are NOT factual but for the purpose of argument. Insert your own number as you will for your situation.
Lets say mom and dad has one child and goes their separate ways. Mom has the babe full time. Mom and dad both make $2000/month. Lets say dad’s Household bills (rent, utilities, mortgage, upkeep) equals $750/month. Mom, because of the need for a larger place due to having the babe, her monthly household bills are $1000/month. It’s easy to think that well there is only a $250 difference that should the babe’s bills but this is not the case. Like a roommate the bills are shared. Lets say, because we are talking about a child, the bills are split 40% babe and 60% mom. Now lets say babe’s basic needs not including house hold like clothes, diapers, etc come to $500/month. Mom and dads extra bills are $350/month Keep in mind this is basic.
Babe’s Bill’s
400- Household 40%
+500-basic needs
=$900
Mom and babe bills combined
1000-Household
500- babes basic
+350- moms basic
=$1850
Dad’s Bills
750- Household
+350-dads basic
=$1100
Based on $2000 a month income.
If mom had no support from dad then she has only $150 extra every month to splurge on.
If dad doesn’t pay support then he has $900 extra every month to splurge on.
Keep in mind both make the same amount of money at the end of the day.
By all rights Dad should pay half of babe’s bills. $450.00 every month but he doesn’t. The child support table in Canada says he pay’s, based on $22,000 annual income of $200/month. (In BC, that’s only 10% by the way. Take from- http://www.fmep.gov.bc.ca/resources/maintenance-calculator/ )
Babe’s bills
-900
-200 from dad
=$700 that has to come from mom.
At the end of the day If dad pays support mom has $350 extra to splurge on
Dad if he pay’s support has $700 extra to splurge on.
Dad is upset that he has to pay. I don’t understand how dad can be mad at putting his $200 in to mom and babe’s home.
If all babe’s needs are meet and mom’s buy’s some thing extra special for herself out of the $350 left over then she should be able to do that with out dad bashing her. After all in this situation Dad splurges $700 a month on him self.
How did I do on my made up situation and my logic? Does this make sense to any of you???
Seams fairly real to me. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/27/2009 7:28:07 PM | My ex has an income of 130,000 a year and pays 1207.00 for 3 kids. We split day care costs and health care costs, every other child necessitys come out of my child support payment.
When I asked him to split the cost of school clothes with me he had his attorney send me a letter to the effect that clothing is provided for in child support payments.
I think every state is different, in Utah they look at each parents income and decide how much each parent is responsible for.
My ex has new teeth, new cars, new motorcycles and every electronic toy you can dream up.
So I really don't know how the state calculates child support | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:40:31 PM |
Province or territory of residence British Columbia Total number of children under 18 years of age 1 Your net income $21,000.00 Your working income $0.00 UCCB income $0.00 UCCB repayment $0.00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CCTB online calculation results -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Basic monthly amount $108.91 National Child Benefit Supplement monthly amount $168.75 BC Family Bonus monthly amount $0.00 BC Earned Income Benefit monthly amount $0.00 Total monthly amount $277.66
Simple math....suggests $2,000 x 12 is $24,00.00
Simple math suggests $277.66 x 12 is $ 3,331.92
Simple math suggests $220 cs x 12 is $ 2,640.00
_________
$29,971.92 custodial parent
Simple math suggest $2,000 x 12 is $24,000
Simple math suggest-- $220csx 12 is $ 2,640
_______
$21,360 non custodial parent
Now why not talk about more simple math where we talk double tax credits for custodial parents.....and how daycare costs are based on gross income as opposed to take home or disposable cash?
So lets talk about disposable cash and then talk about the non custodial being involved in the childs life....and how they will pay for the costs of having a second home where the children will be safe or feel comfortable in.
And you child is not your roommate....and why not try some simple math as many cs calculations factor 150 to 200 square feet extra per child in housing cost for children....which is not your 40% shared costs you suggest.
But keeping it simple...Dads cost is $750 and so is Mom's $750 with extra $250 being baby cost...which is then divided by 2 or $125 for each parent to assume.
yet you have the baby cost as being $400....which some might suggest as additional spousal costs...or double dipping....and you wonder why some guys do not like giving money to some woman who will not pull her weight....
But where is the extra $700 you purport the father has?
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:46:16 PM | [So it is no wonder that if an unwed woman who decides to keep the child of a reluctant man who will only pay what the law makes him will have such a hard road ahead of them because if a couple who pulls in 80,000 - 1oo,ooo complains that money is tight, how does she even consider keeping a child. Who is covering the real expense - the village?]
If the man were reluctant, he shouldn't have lain with the woman to begin with! But I am talking about two parents; you are a parent once a child is born, and you knew you could become so, before you chose to have sex. In any case, I think it was pretty obvious, as I mentioned the things kids had/used to do prior to living in a one parent household, that I was addressing those who had chosen to be involved with their children and were either married to or in a relationship with, the other parent. BTW, many of us, men & women alike, cover the "real" expenses of raising children (even those who play sports & have very active social lives) on less than 100K/yr.) without the help of "the village"
To sorrythatusernameistaken (cute name , btw) I never said anything about the best of the best. I am referring to the notion that it seems unfair that the CHILDREN bear the brunt of economic loss. If your income rises, and the cost of living rises, shouldn't you give more to the expenses of your children? Shouldn't the parents bear the brunt of the sacrifices? It is not the children who couldn't make the relationship work. They certainly suffer the consequences; why add insult to injury? That's all I'm saying. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/27/2009 9:05:36 PM | Ok Tealwood, you have caught a couple mistakes that I have over looked lets try it your way then. I was leaving out the government subsidies because I felt that was a separate issue. There are parents out there that don't get any subsidies and this is not the parents contribution. I also based this on basic not including extra things like daycare, sports, etc. There are a lot of things that can influence the cost of raising a child.
Lets say mom and dad has one child and goes their separate ways. Mom has the babe full time. Mom and dad both make $2000/month. Lets say dad’s Household bills (rent, utilities, mortgage, upkeep) equals $750/month. Mom, because of the need for a larger place due to having the babe, her monthly household bills are $1000/month. The difference being $250 for the babe. Now lets say babe’s basic needs not including house hold like clothes, diapers, etc come to $500/month. Mom and dads basic needs are $350/month Keep in mind this is basic.
Babe’s Bill’s
250- Household
+500-basic needs
=$750
Mom and babe bills combined
1000-Household
500- babes basic
+350- moms basic
=$1850
Dad’s Bills
750- Household
+350-dads basic
=$1100
Based on $2000 a month income.
If mom had no support from dad then she has only $150 extra every month to splurge on.
If dad doesn’t pay support then he has $900 extra every month to splurge on.
Keep in mind both make the same amount of money at the end of the day.
By all rights Dad should pay half of babe’s bills. $375.00 every month but he doesn’t. The child support table in Canada says he pay’s, based on $24,000 annual income of $220/month. (In BC, that’s only 11% by the way. Take from- http://www.fmep.gov.bc.ca/resources/maintenance-calculator/ )
Babe’s bills
750
-220 from dad
=$530 that has to come from mom.
At the end of the day If dad pays support mom has $370 extra to splurge on
Dad if he pay’s support has $680 extra to splurge on.
Dad is upset that he has to pay. I don’t understand how dad can be mad at putting his $220 in to mom and babe’s home.
If all babe’s needs are meet and mom’s buy’s some thing extra special for herself out of the $370 left over then she should be able to do that with out dad bashing her. After all in this situation Dad splurges $680 a month on him self.
How did I do on my made up situation and my logic? Does this make sense to any of you???
Seams fairly real to me. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 4:42:05 AM | How could a child's basic needs be 150 dollars higher than an adult? Is the kid wearing a different outfit everyday, steak and caviar on the menu?
I think your idea of what a basic need is a tad skewed. Just sayin' | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 6:32:45 AM |
Ok Tealwood, you have caught a couple mistakes that I have over looked lets try it your way then. I was leaving out the government subsidies because I felt that was a separate issue. There are parents out there that don't get any subsidies and this is not the parents contribution. I also based this on basic not including extra things like daycare, sports, etc. There are a lot of things that can influence the cost of raising a child.
Well the extra expenses that you speak about...i.e. daycare and sports fall outside cs and are deemed extra. And sports are not a necessity of life either. But daycare is taken off the top based on gross income....not net income...
Nice to see that you are appearing like what some attribute single custodial mothers are....just looking at it as a cash cow....since you were talking about cash flow or who had what extra income...but like others....when there is a free or benefit that favours the custodial....you guard it jealously and do not want it included....in comparing cash flow..or available purchasing power.
Babe’s Bill’s
250- Household
+500-basic needs
=$750
Mom and babe bills combined
1000-Household
500- babes basic
+350- moms basic
=$1850
How many times do you go to the well and use the baby to offset your finacial requirement. And when does your pursuit of cs cross over and also become spousal support?
Since you prefer to deal with simple.....
$250 is the additional cost household for the child...$750 for each parent....plus the mother gets additional $250 for the baby....but of course I assume you would attribute only 1/2 to the father?
$125......
But $500 a month for what? But even that is only 1/2 attributed to the father...or do you need more because woman tend not to work full time like custodial father?
so
$250 + $125 = $375 additional cost that the custodial parent bears...
However...keeping this simple...
$220 cs each month plus the CCTB $277 which you prefer not to mention....
$220+$277=$497
The cs you whine about as not being enough...plus the CCTB which is there for any parent who files their income tax....hiding income are we?
But it seems you argue that dad should pay 1/2 of the costs...inflated costs that you come up with,,,,plus you still want to keep the tax benefits as yours and not part of the equation since they are ?????yours....not to be shared...and like perhaps other self centered mothers..you share what benefits yourself and guard jealously what you feel is not something the father should have.....
And we have not even touched on the benefits in respect to the income taxes a custodial parent benefits from?
there parents out there that don't get any subsidies and this is not the parents contribution.
yes I realized that....those who make enough money that they do not qualify for them...and those who work under the table and do not declare their income or do not file their income tax as required by law......and then there are those who can look at both households and suggest that some of the benefits of a custodial parent finacially offset what cs also supplies and also realize that the non custodial parent...if they are to be involved in their childs life will also have to have the same higher living costs....unless you want your child living or sleeping on the couch when they go visit....as they have not yet developed homes which magically create the extra bedroom when the child comes for their access weekend.
But there was once a day when cloth diapers were used...but they became work....and there was once a day when they actually made the food themselves...but that became work and mothers now buy it off the self...
But the simple manner is looking at all revenue sources that come in to both households and compare things on an equal platform...and not use your child as a cash cow.
But then i am a bad example. As custodial parent..I do not need or want any money from my ex and she needs all she can keep so she has a home suitable for the children when they decide to visit. But what to frig....maybe I should go after her for the tabled amount....and I know she will have to sell her home.....and move away....and have little top no money to spend on herself or her children....since this seems to be your objective? | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 6:48:54 AM | Good Morning Every one...
Taken...I am in agreement with you . Both parent should provide equally (Financially, morally) to the child.
To the Initiator... ( In Ontario)
You are absolutely right that even though the Support is based on Gross income, it does feels like it is based on the net income and 25% of net of any House hold budget leave a great impact on any one's life.
About the other cost such as Child care, Sports and other activities....The Support payer pays on the basis of his income again. For example:
Father's Income 33000
Mothers Income 11000
Cost of activity 750/month
Considering that the mother has the custody... The Payer will be obliged to pay 500 per month to the mother and he will not be able to claim it in his tax return as he is paying to the Receiver not the service provider.The receiver will receive those funds . She will also claim this as child care expense in her return and receive the tax credit for the full amount and that is 750/month | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 6:58:28 AM |
How could a child's basic needs be 150 dollars higher than an adult? Is the kid wearing a different outfit everyday, steak and caviar on the menu?
I think your idea of what a basic need is a tad skewed. Just sayin'
I don't have kids, but I'm sure that an infant's needs could easily be 150 higher than an adult. There's the cost of formula, diapers, medications, more clothes washed more frequently (which means more detergent and electricity), more cleaning supplies, the hot water necessary to sterilize bottles... This is all in addition to the upfront cost for necessities like cribs, car seats, etc. that are most likely paid out by the CP in the months immediately proceeding the birth and just after.
Older children tend to grow out of clothing so quickly it would astound you. My niece has gone up 2 full sizes since September. All of the pants her mother bought for school are now a couple of inches over her ankles. She's also eating like a fiend... she eats more food than her mother does. She snacks so much that my sister has been buying fruits and veggies like they're going out of style.( For her, the snacking is a necessity as well, since she's very underweight for her age and height.) My sister could easily walk/bike long distances but now HAS to use her car to get her daughter to school/appointments.
I mean, TECHNICALLY you could just give your child enough to keep them alive, but why would someone bring a child into the world knowing that they'd be deprived of pretty much everything they see around them? Most loving parents want their children to have the best that they can afford to provide. I know I wouldn't be buying myself a BMW if my children were living on food stamps in a one-bedroom government-subsidized apartment... no matter how much I hated their father's guts. If there weren't so many people willing to do exactly that, child support wouldn't have to be legislated and there would be no griping over being "forced" to do what the parent should have been doing all along. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:45:04 AM | I guess a basic way to look at my question would be to say:
If food, clothing & shelter cost ______ dollars per month per child and extras like daycare, sports, extended medical, etc. are extras calculated OUTSIDE of basic CS; then shouldn't CS be set at the flat rate of ______? Then anything over and above that amount would be paid for by the parent who CHOOSES to spend more than the basic costs?
Anything over that basic amount would too easily just go to the use of the receiving parent , without going directly to the child(ren). | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 11:30:27 AM | Nice to see that you are appearing like what some attribute single custodial mothers are....just looking at it as a cash cow....since you were talking about cash flow or who had what extra income...but like others....when there is a free or benefit that favours the custodial....you guard it jealously and do not want it included....in comparing cash flow..or available purchasing power.
My intentions was not to start a flame war and I'm not trying to look at it as a cash cow. I'm not educated in the field of child support and like a lot of other single parents, Mom's or dad's I don't fully understand how it works so I was tring out my logic and posting it here so others can comment and people such as your self can challenge it and perhaps we collectively can come up with how it really works, since so many people don't know such as my self.
Lets, if we can leave the non necessities out of the picture for now because that is such a Brod thing.
I read some were that the child support tables were set up with the assumption that the non custodial parent was not in the picture at all. So I based this scenario as such.
In the time after one year after separation or divorce, 50% of children of divorced or separated families never see their fathers again.
http://fathersforlife.org/divorce/dvrcrate.htm
I'm assuming many more only see there father once in a blue moon.
$250 + $125 = $375 additional cost that the custodial parent bears...
However...keeping this simple...
$220 cs each month plus the CCTB $277 which you prefer not to mention....
$220+$277=$497
I wasn't trying to make it look like she was hogging the CCTB. I was only thinking that it was from the government and not the parents but since you bring up a valid point lets add it in.
In your quote you have added it to the paying parents contribution but to be fair lets take it off the top.
babe's bills
750
-277
-220
=$253 that has to come from mom.
So it works out that in this scenario it works out a bit more equal when you add the CCTB
But there was once a day when cloth diapers were used...but they became work....and there was once a day when they actually made the food themselves...but that became work and mothers now buy it off the self...
I think most people use disposable items now and most people also don't have the means to go hunting or plow their own fields. Lets look at this in today's society and not the past. How many people use cloth diapers today?
inflated costs that you come up with
It depends on the child's age how much a child can cost. Infants for example go threw a whole new wardrobe every 3-6 months, go threw many clothes changes in a day, out grow car seats, cribs, strollers, etc etc...You get the picture. an older child the cost may not be as high for necessities. Yes I understand that they don't out grow these things every month but this is just an estimated average.
Then anything over and above that amount would be paid for by the parent who CHOOSES to spend more than the basic costs?
If the parent want's to buy more expensive clothes and such then I would say yes its up to the parent that choose it. If its say summer camp and the child really want's to go then that cost should be shared IMO. I don't think it should be tacked on the the monthly child support though but rather a one time cost thing.
shouldn't CS be set at the flat rate of ______?
In Canada I though you pointed out earlier on that it was. That the table was law and was set at a rate of $_________. | |
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