| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 12:37:30 PM | Hi Thatuser....
For your comment
I guess a basic way to look at my question would be to say:
If food, clothing & shelter cost ______ dollars per month per child and extras like daycare, sports, extended medical, etc. are extras calculated OUTSIDE of basic CS; then shouldn't CS be set at the flat rate of ______? Then anything over and above that amount would be paid for by the parent who CHOOSES to spend more than the basic costs?
Anything over that basic amount would too easily just go to the use of the receiving parent , without going directly to the child(ren).
I guess the German solution..that both parents pay equal child support and the Governing body (Such as FRO ) should analyze as to how the funds are being spend every month.End of the day the Funds are for Child not for the mother . She should not be able to use a penny for herself.
I would like to see in that situation , how many females will file for complete custody. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 12:43:26 PM | Mr. Single Super Dad...... The US welfare system is same as in Canada only the payment differs a bit because in US people get food stamps for Food while in Canada people get hard cash.
and
CS is same as Child Support in canada which is Managed by FRO Family Responsibility office.
Another Factor...I think In US Single mother don't get any funding such as CCTB,OCB, Working Family Benefit...but for working family benefit one's income has to be over a specific limit.
In Canada Single mother also get GST per month accumulated in a quarterly check.
plus
9600 in a depend tax Credit + 2000 in Fed Child Tax Credit. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 12:48:19 PM |
I guess the German solution..that both parents pay equal child support and the Governing body (Such as FRO ) should analyze as to how the funds are being spend every month.End of the day the Funds are for Child not for the mother . She should not be able to use a penny for herself.
I would like to see in that situation , how many females will file for complete custody.
I agree that it should be shared equally V_C but how would it be possible to analyze were the money goes? For example I can see that a parent can hang on to receipts and such to show were some of it goes but what about things like allowance for the child were there is no receipts. How would one figure out exactly how much of the car bills are used just for the child? Or the grocery bill. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 12:59:33 PM | Diamond....The Grocery could be monitered on national average base and the car can be calculated as ....
For example..
Insurance....300
Gas 200
__________________________
Total 500
500 divided 2 = 250 is the share of women and 250 is the share of the child.
then 250 left should be divided into two as well...which come to be the share of each parent 125 dollar / Month.
The value of her Car as well as repair should be her responsibility as she choose to drive not the child and she choose to get the full custody.
If father wants the full custody then same should imply to him.
Given 5 years and this issue of unwanted children will abolish itself because then no one will get the privilege of child's money. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:01:46 PM | | diamond ....to analyze the money the best way will be that FRO will issue a bank card to the custody parent and he/she will make all the child's purchase through that card and FRO should be able to audit those receipt anytime. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:02:13 PM |
shouldn't CS be set at the flat rate of ______? In Canada I though you pointed out earlier on that it was. That the table was law and was set at a rate of $_________.
Yes, I commented on how the tables are set and are law. What I am talking about though is that the table amount can be significantly more than the amount required to actually support just the children. $1800 per month for two children tax free, for example, is a hell of a lot more than the direct costs involved with supporting those two children. I would theorize that all of that extra money would be used up by the recipient of the CS payments and not be distributed to child expenses only. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:07:34 PM | Hi ThatUser name...
Yes, I commented on how the tables are set and are law. What I am talking about though is that the table amount can be significantly more than the amount required to actually support just the children. $1800 per month for two children tax free, for example, is a hell of a lot more than the direct costs involved with supporting those two children. I would theorize that all of that extra money would be used up by the recipient of the CS payments and not be distributed to child expenses only.
This is the whole issue that the fathers do not want the funds to be used by the EX henceforth they are not willing to pay child support. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:14:04 PM | In the US there is still a sort of the same thing as our CTTB it just has a different name.
I would also like to point out OCB (Ontario Child Benefit) is only received in Ontario hence its name. No other province gets this.
http://www.rev.gov.on.ca/en/credit/occs/
Working Family Benefit you must make a minimum of $3,000 EARNED income for the year. By earned that is not welfare payments they do not count. So if you are solely on welfare you do not see this, if you are working you see it, and receive it once a year and its amount also varies up to a certain maximum allowed.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/bnfts/wtb/fq_qlfyng-eng.html
Everyone under a certain income receives a GST check be they a single parent or just a single person male or female. The basic credit every 4 months is $50. here in BC may vary by province.
http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/goc/gst_credit.shtml
The other 2 credits really don't make much of a difference as they are used in a formula to calculate how much one owes or gets refunded on an income tax return, anyone in Canada with a child gets to claim these credits, not just single mothers.
Child Support varies by Province many of us do not receive it but an example is my sons father makes $2010 a month, by the calculations he should pay $220 a month according to the BC Family Maintence websites calculator.
http://www.fmep.gov.bc.ca/resources/maintenance-calculator/
I posted links to back myself up on who qualifies for what.
As for how much one should receive in CS, I feel it depends on the age of the child, younger children need more things, like diapers, formula, baby equipment. They grow out of clothing faster. As they get older they can eat you out of house and home, I remember my sisters teenage boys ate everything in sight that they could. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:19:28 PM |
The other 2 credits really don't make much of a difference as they are used in a formula to calculate how much one owes or gets refunded on an income tax return, anyone in Canada with a child gets to claim these credits, not just single mothers.
The equivalent to spouse and dependent child tax credits can only be claimed by one person though. If there is a shared parenting agreement you need a letter signed by the other parent before the CRA will let you claim those amounts. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:24:30 PM |
Yes, I commented on how the tables are set and are law. What I am talking about though is that the table amount can be significantly more than the amount required to actually support just the children. $1800 per month for two children tax free, for example, is a hell of a lot more than the direct costs involved with supporting those two children. I would theorize that all of that extra money would be used up by the recipient of the CS payments and not be distributed to child expenses only.
I'm not an expert by no means but I think it comes down to a quality of life issue.
Lets say dad makes 80,000/year and mom makes 20,000. The total for the home is 100,000 per year. Lets say this household had a huge home, boats, cars, quads, expensive things, and such. The child is used to having all the luxuries. When the home breaks up and the child goes with mom who is making 20,000 a year and cant afford all the luxuries but dad can. It would be putting that child into poverty and a way of life that they are not used to. So to help mom keep up that way of life for the child the child support is higher.
Same thing would be if mom and dad both make 80,000/year and the total household would be 160,000. The child would be accustomed to a 160,000 a year living.
That's just my thoughts. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:24:36 PM | Here we go.. again.
9600 in a depend tax Credit + 2000 in Fed Child Tax Credit.
Non refundable tax credit.
Yes, I commented on how the tables are set and are law.
They are a GUIDELINE the courts use and are not law. There are various factors that change the amounts. All things being equal, thats the amount that a person may pay. But who's equal. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:26:41 PM | I also forgot to add that anyone on welfare does not see these child support payments anyway, they are deducted dollar for dollar in most places. Ontario, BC and Quebec do it dollar for dollar.
Not all single parents spend it all on themselves. My CTTB goes to paying the hydro bill, diapers, food, clothing and other things he may need such as this month it was a new car seat because he is too big for the old one. With my pay I pay the rent, the gas bill as its separate from my hydro, the cable, internet, phone and other groceries as well as stuff he may need at that time.
I can't remember the last time I bought myself anything special I don't, it goes to my son. I haven't bought new clothes in a long time, and that is long overdue, but I don't, we have no car and live on the outskirts of town, but god forbid if I did that for us. What does dear dad contribute? Absolutely nothing. Why? Not because he thinks I will spend it on me because he knows I won't, its because he doesn't want to and it might take away from the big screen tvs for the girlfriend and other things.
I would be happy if he even chose to go buy the things my son needed and bring them to him. I would be fine with that. I don't need to see the money, but how many men would even go as far as to pick up that case of formula or a bag of diapers etc. I have a feeling it would be the same amount now that don't want to pay support just because. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:28:35 PM | | Here is an interesting fact. The real reason why Finance Minister Paul Martin switched the taxation on child support was to cover up a billion dollar income tax evasion problem. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:37:56 PM |
I'm not an expert by no means but I think it comes down to a quality of life issue.
Lets say dad makes 80,000/year and mom makes 20,000. The total for the home is 100,000 per year. Lets say this household had a huge home, boats, cars, quads, expensive things, and such. The child is used to having all the luxuries. When the home breaks up and the child goes with mom who is making 20,000 a year and cant afford all the luxuries but dad can. It would be putting that child into poverty and a way of life that they are not used to. So to help mom keep up that way of life for the child the child support is higher.
Same thing would be if mom and dad both make 80,000/year and the total household would be 160,000. The child would be accustomed to a 160,000 a year living.
That's just my thoughts.
I can see what you are suggesting Diamondincnd, and thank you for your thoughts. These luxuries like large homes, quads, high end home theatre, etc. are mostly for the parent though. Sure the child uses them to some extent, but not in the same way or to the same extent I would expect an adult to.
I would ask why can't the CS recipient earn more? Especially given if both parents have similar backgrounds and similar education levels. In your example where the dad earns 80k and the mom earns 20k. Why is mom only earning 20k? Or as many moms have posted on PoF where they were the "bread winners" per se while the husband was consistenly unemployed or underemployed. In either case you end up with the higher wage earner contributing what i would call spousal support, but it gets blanketed under the term child support. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:44:28 PM | The CS recipient may not be able to earn more, as I am sure you are aware women in the same jobs as men tend to get paid less for doing said same job.
I kind of know what its like, I got just this week dumped off one of the websites I do because a young kid who knows absolutely nothing came along who's father owns a computer store here in town. He now gets the website job, no notification or anything to me, goes to show you, if you are male and young you can get the job and keep it more often than a woman can.
Their excuse? I am a single mom and can't do as good as a job as a kid who can't even put the pictures on the website up the right way or plug in a computer monitor in properly.
Doesn't matter I am more qualified for the job than he is. He is a male I am a female I am not just out of school.
Thats why the woman who only makes 20,000 and the man makes more can't make more money sometimes. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:47:51 PM | | Also in alot of situations the mom is taking care of the kids, and may have passed on chances for career advancement for the sake of taking care of children. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 2:03:16 PM | | Yes you are right about how it used to be but ever since the Birth control pill university and college admissions for women have increased every year tot eh point where they outnumber men who graduate. YET you would still have a hard time finding too many women that would allow a man the same option of staying home or working parttime to care for children. It is a risk they must carefully consider. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 2:08:12 PM |
Also in alot of situations the mom is taking care of the kids, and may have passed on chances for career advancement for the sake of taking care of children.
That is what spousal support (alimony) is for. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 2:33:10 PM | Although women may have fought for the right to be equal this is not always the case in today's work force. Much like matriki sweet had mentioned.
I do think that if mom pushed herself that she could do better for sure though. But that was just an example given, the parents may even make the same amount of money, or the mom makes more. I think with higher incomes it comes down to quality of life and not so much the necessities of life like it does with lower incomes.
This is my theory as to why the support payments goes up with the income level.
I don't know much about alimony at all as have never dealt with it before but I'm guessing its along the same lines but just doesn't last as long. Supposedly just long enough so the person receiving it can get on there feet. For example a house wife that hasn't worked in years or a person that has a much lower income. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 3:04:54 PM |
Sorry to those who are looking for an intimate encounter, I wont do one-night stands. I have morals.
Selective or moral choices,...do you have any problem expecting someone to finacially make up what you are unprepared or unable to earn yourself?
Morality is not simple one off issue's where the it suits or best supports your own self interest.
My ex was always looking for reasons to stay home and not work...and it had nothing to do with raising the children...as when she was home on maternity she expected...demanded I did my share of raising the children after i returned home from work...or the part time job...and she felt it only right I also got up so many times a week for the 2am feeding...as part of the parenting....even though i was the one who was working the 60hr work week.
I kind of know what its like, I got just this week dumped off one of the websites I do because a young kid who knows absolutely nothing came along who's father owns a computer store here in town. He now gets the website job, no notification or anything to me, goes to show you, if you are male and young you can get the job and keep it more often than a woman can.
Use the poor woman are victims....it never gets old for some...how about you were to slow...your attitude sucked.....your not as good as you think you are....the person in question owed a favour to the kids dad...the kid did a better dales job and your personality alienated the client????I lost and have lost orders because the other sale rep had better boobs than I have....on the the next client....I have lost orders because the other sales rep has flirted or been suggestive to the buyer...I offered the guy once but the male one male thing was not something we were going to...
As of now....over a million off last years numbers....no one's problem but me...and no one to blame but work harder...keep the clients happier...and realize there are other deals or opportunities to be achieved.....
but the North American business community is always looking to do better and save money..or buy offshore..so if woman get paid less than guys...why are men still employed when they can pay a woman less for the same job....Pleeaase....
bottom line...you lost the job and why are you always looking to blame someone else....you have had 4 serious relationships...and the blame is was always someone else...are we not seeing a trend here??? Always someone else...never looking in the mirror..or accepting things happen and things change....instead it seems it is always someone else..never accepting we all have some responsibility in where we have been and even more importantly...accepting our errors and our mistakes we find new opportunities are always there for those who reach and strive to take what they can...rather than sitting and blaming others waiting for what we feel is our right or our entitlement... | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 3:15:34 PM | Tealwood you have obvious issues towards women but that doesn't give you the right to come into a forum and try to steal the thread by bashing the women in it. We are not your ex's, don't treat us as such.
Getting back to the topic at hand...........................................
So dad has a high quality of life, how would one increase the quality of life for a child living with mom and not expect it to benefit mom.
Do you think mom is going to eat kraft dinner while across the table babe is eating steak and lobster?
Of course it will benefit mom too, I'm not saying it wouldn't.
Or is it better to have Dad in a mansion eating Steak and Lobster while mom and child are eating craft dinner all because dad is spiteful. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 3:32:06 PM | I refuse to get into another flaming war with some man who thinks yet again they are above everyone else.
You were not in my relationships, so you do not know what happened, being beaten, my daughter being beaten, being cheated on is NOT MY FAULT, nor is it any other womans fault. If you think we deserve it then you seriously have issues.
How come your single? Must be your fault eh?
In another life how about you come back as a woman trapped in an abusive relationship so we can blame you when it falls apart. Way to go keep kicking people when they are down, just another form of abuse. | |
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| An unofficial look at CS payment amounts.
Posted: 10/28/2009 3:33:57 PM |
So dad has a high quality of life, how would one increase the quality of life for a child living with mom and not expect it to benefit mom.
Do you think mom is going to eat kraft dinner while across the table babe is eating steak and lobster?
Of course it will benefit mom too, I'm not saying it wouldn't.
Or is it better to have Dad in a mansion eating Steak and Lobster while mom and child are eating craft dinner all because dad is spiteful.
How about the recipient get a better career? Not trying to be solely argumentative, but I believe the system is set up to support mediocrity in some cases. | |
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