| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 8:29:43 AM | ^^ I assume this mans addiction would be to high colestrol, salty foods.
I am a care worker and would have to go in and prepare meals for somebody like this. We can only cook and serve whats in the fridge/freezer.. we only cook what the family has provided.. I had a really obese lady earlier this year, in the evening she would have a roast dinner, 2 strawberry mousse, 2 mars bars and 2packets of crisps. Sadly she died but We have no right to say, no you cant have that. The family had provided enough of it for her to eat on a daily basis.
I understand what your saying but I'm afraid I just cant think and be like that about people else I wouldn't be in the job I'm in.
but i bet you 10 years down the line he will be asking for it again
Havent read all the details but I imagine he will be having his stomach stapled so there is no physical chance of this happening again. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 8:31:29 AM | Cheeky J
Ofcoure its a mental illness and needs to be treated, some of it's not, some of it it brute lazyness and greed. the treatment is there for those who are obease, its in the system, they have to go an get the help just as much as an anorexic, usualu in the case of anorexia its the parents that get them to take the first step.. as it were.
Also at 70 stone, doing any operations is highly risky to him, and not to mention the staff involved, its possible for people to loose weight without surgery. its not like this man has not been getting care, he has 2 carers that come to look after him, wash him keep him clean. its not like he isn't getting help. He is. but we can only do so much..
and to be quite frank, they do give up on certain untreatable anorexics, especialy if their totaly in mind of what they want, aka, to not eat. they can force them under the mental health act, but usualy its a wasted cause by that time as the organs are already starting their road to failing from lack of nutrition.
we can't save everyone, and not everyone wants to be saved. sad but very true fact of life. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 8:31:35 AM | | i'm a psychology major.. to coin an american terminology.. i analyse people too much and always think the worst of people..because quite frankly most people are out for number one. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 8:33:35 AM | He hasn't been fat all his life apparently
Paul - a stick-thin soccer-playing lad in his youth - moved back in with arthritis sufferer Janet in 1990 after two relationships fell apart. He cared for Janet for a while but ended up barely able to walk as he ballooned.
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2692469/70-stone-Brits-tragic-ambition.html#ixzz0UaJg8qPw
I would imagine the only way that he could have been forced to get treatment earlier was if he had been sectioned under the Mental Health Act.
I understand that carers also don't have the right to force feed people salad but surely if this man was known to social services, something could have been done to intervene.
Letting someone eat themselves to 70 stones is in my view criminal. Particularly when he could have been helped. I honestly think from area to area social services make the rules up as they go along. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 8:42:57 AM |
Letting someone eat themselves to 70 stones is in my view criminal. Particularly when he could have been helped. I honestly think from area to area social services make the rules up as they go along.
Touché pussycat! | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 9:40:11 AM |
What if he dies before he loses 5 stone, brilliant that eh, like I said before the NHS has a responsibility to provide the best care for all its patients.
Who has the right to decide how much weight a person loses before being accepted for treatment whithin the NHS.?.
IMO no one.
Surgery and treatment should be last resorts, after all a man with that bulk has a very good chance of not surviving the surgery. If he lost the weight he would be better prepared mentally for after the surgery as he has to break the mental problems he has attached with food as the physical. The week before he has the operation he has to eat what is considered a normal diet to remove glycogen from his system and shrink his kidney.
Doctors though for years have been refusing operations for the obese and smokers until they take affirmative action. 1 in 10 Health care trusts take that line.
I actually think it would be cruel to give him the operation now, I am in favour of him receiving treatment but want positive change in his diet and lifestyle for that continue and it would be easier for him to cope when he has done enough to get the treatment. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 9:51:04 AM | | No one reaches that size simply through "lack of will power." That level of obesity is an illness in itself and I believe deserves treatment, which includes addressing the underlying cause of his eating obsession. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 9:56:29 AM | I think the point here is.. theirs nothing they can do for him in a hospital, not yet anyway, he'd just go in there and sit around rather than his home. they can't conduct surgery on him, not until he drops a shed load of weight, they could start a diet program in his house. they can do all that without the need for a RAC flatbet to hoist him onto the back and take him to hospital.
its obvious from the post the nhs wants to do something, but they can't do it alone they need his input, if he's not willing to do a slice of the work why the hell should the NHS? he is therefore choosing to eat himself to oblivion, mentality problem or not. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:01:19 AM | Most of what we do, and what happens as a result of our choices, could be described as self-inflicted. Skiing accidents, Sports injuries, Mountain Climbing (Frostbite) Motor racing, etc etc. All injuries incurred could be argued to be "preventable" by not choosing to do something. If we're gonna question this fat blokes rights,
should we also question all the other "self-inflicted" medical requirements?
Could not agree with you more. Whether self inflicted or not this man needs help and is entitled to it. This man suffers from a mental disorder and so he cannot be held accountable.
For example you are working in casuly a young girl of say 15 comes in with severe lacerations to her wrist that are clearly self inflicted...do you say no sorry this was your fault go and stitch up yourself? No you dont.
I also agree with cheekyjules...having worked in the care field as well we have absolutely no right to say no this person cant have that or that someone else should do this...we all do things we know we shouldnt whether it be eating too much, smoking, drinking, eating too much of the wrong foods or putting ourselves in vulnerable positions that result in us getting hurt.
I will also add that if you went to hospital after suffering injuries in a road accident would you expect to be turned away because you could have prevented being hurt by not driving...no you wouldnt!! | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:06:49 AM |
For example you are working in casuly a young girl of say 15 comes in with severe lacerations to her wrist that are clearly self inflicted...do you say no sorry this was your fault go and stitch up yourself? No you dont.
Actually the response to some people who do self harm by some A and E departments is not very positive. There are people within the medical profession that don't have time for self harmers, the self harm being viewed as attention seeking. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:09:18 AM |
I will also add that if you went to hospital after suffering injuries in a road accident
If you were responsible for a road traffic accident you can be prosecuted.
Most here agree he deserves to be treated by the NHS, but not if he continues to consume 20,000 calories by eating junk food and excessive portions. The people who are caring for him if this is a “mental illness” it is felt could and should intervene to protect him from himself! | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:09:38 AM | | sorry, but being in a car accident has no relevance to this conversation.. mutually exclusive as we are talking about a diet, not how you drive. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:12:43 AM | I can't understand why he hasn't been sectioned under the mental health act so that he can get treatment. If he has no intention of losing weight at the moment, he's just going to keep gaining.
It is all very well delivering a care package that complies with the person's wishes but this package of care is killing him and somewhere along the line his choices need to be removed from him for his own sake.
Believe me it is not often I would say that but I think in this case it needs to happen. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:13:56 AM | It is not mutually exclusive. I am simply pointing out that there are those who have said that he shouldn't get treatment because he put himself into this position. I am merely saying there are many activities we do that put ourselves at risk driving being one of them.
You cant say to one person no you ate too much sorry no treatment and to another though it was your fault you were injured we can still treat you because everyone else does it to...
Ok to use a different example a person with cancer...would you leave them to get on with it without treatment because they smoked? Or someone with soriasis of the liver because they drank? Are they also not entitled to help on the NHS? | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:15:31 AM | were not talking about road accidents/skiing accidents there a different thing altogether. the points that are made are moot, RTA's can't be avoided at times unless you work for the goverment were no-one will ever crash a car or have an accident. i will accept arguments of anorexia and self harming because they do in some way relate to a mental state, but still, no matter the mentality, if he can't stop eating and try to get a healthy diet to help himself how can he expect the NHS to click their fingers and sort it (but they are, they just haven't figured the logistics) self harmers will get councelling and aid with depression/what ever it is thats destroying their life and Anorexics get mental treatment so they will eat and become healthy.
If people are mentaliy unwell, they seek help or other people get them help. the help is there, this i dont believe is the argument, We do not have all the facts at our disposal, we don't know what the NHS has offered for him previously, if he has not been helping himself by taking the advice from experts who's fault is that? at some point a doctor has to put the hands up and say, we've done everything, theirs nothing left we can do. but not here, they are going to do surgery which at this time will more likely kill him, not like the other side of the prognosis is any better,
its not like te balloned to 70 stone overnight, they had to lift him out his house in 2002 with the aid of a forklift and an open window.
this is not a new problem for this gentleman, and i sure as hell hope that they have been trying to do things to get him to loose weight, but if he doesnt physically put the effort in for it then how can he expect to get help?? they cant wave magic wands.
(Below)
Actually Norty its about the entitlemant of a "super obese" man and his personal entitalment, not joe average on the street. i thenk we all know joe average is entitaled to it or it wouldn't be the NHS, this is a singular, Unique case which is up for discussion | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:17:31 AM | sorry, but being in a car accident has no relevance to this conversation.. mutually exclusive as we are talking about a diet, not how you drive.
The thread is about entitlement to N.H.S treatment, so any life threatening situation is fair game for discussion, not just the ones that you decide are valid, someone is to blame for this guy being in the situation he is in, just as theres always blame to be laid for a car crash, wether it be one drivers fault, or knock for knock. HTH
Actually Norty its about the entitlemant of a "super obese" man and his personal entitalment, not joe average on the street. i thenk we all know joe average is entitaled to it or it wouldn't be the NHS, this is a singular, Unique case which is up for discussion
I'm aware of the case in question and have already stated my view on this, but how do you decide who is ill enough, thin enough, mentally ill, fat enough, retarded or just dowright irresponsible can not be considered for life-saving surgery when, as a doctor you took an oath to do exactly what it says on the tin? What gives any of us the right to play god? | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:19:42 AM | they should only be entilted if they want to get "better" and fix the problem...the main problem is that people only say "yeah, i'll improve my act" to get the treatment then start over again. So, i am saying only those who truely want to get better should have it.
Does that make me a bad person? if you say so.. but you only have one life to live and if you wish to screw it up beyond repair, that is their fault and we shouldn't have to carry the financial burden for their downfall. If they wanted to get better, they would of done it far before the point when it was too late. We simply cannot afford to keep helping people who refuse prior treatment and forking out millions of pounds on those who clearly have some sort of death wish to renew their lives so they can do it all over.
Survival of the fittest, as it were. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:26:34 AM |
its obvious from the post the nhs wants to do something, but they can't do it alone they need his input, if he's not willing to do a slice of the work why the hell should the NHS? he is therefore choosing to eat himself to oblivion, mentality problem or not.
I doubt that it's a simple case of him not being willing to himself; most likely he can't as he is controlled by his obsession and compulsion to eat.
This is more than sheer gluttony and he needs therapy to help him overcome this, IMO. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:33:05 AM | your missing the point here.
He's been like this for a long time, and its been known about, since past 2002, this has bugger all to do with his mental state now.. clearly he has a mental problem, and i hope the NHS has been working on it, if they have, what they have been doing is failing, now that can only be because of one of two reasons, the NHS isn't trying enough, or he is not Taking his treatment as it were.
who's fault is the second option? | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:33:36 AM |
A compulsive eating disorder
this phrase surely answers your own question doesn't it? He has a known and recognised medical disorder........he therefore deserves to be treated just the same as any other medical patient
I am sick and tired of these constant "fat" threads.......and the constant displays of ignorance surrounding the subject
if you child had a "syndrome" or "disorder" of some kind would you be saying "he brought it on himself" or would you be demanding the best treatment possible for him, whether it be medical or psychological?
Only recently recognised as a distinct condition, binge eating disorder shares some of its characteristics with bulimia, but the essential difference is that sufferers binge uncontrollably but do not purge. It is believed that many more people suffer from BED than either anorexia or bulimia nervosa. Because of the amount of food eaten, many people with BED become obese, which can lead to high blood pressure and heart disease.
Men are thought to suffer from compulsive eating more than any other eating disorder.
If anyone is interested in reading up on the subject I would recommend any of the books/lectures by Prof Julia Buckroyd. Or you can log on to
http://www.understandingyoureating.co.uk/ | |
|
JTFN
|
Joined: 12/30/2008
Msg: 71 | |
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:44:41 AM |
the NHS is there to catch us when we fall, that's why I don't, and have never minded paying for it. It's universal care as needed.
I totally and 100% agree with the above statement.
Thanks for the newspaper link..
Yes this guy should get all the help he needs. He obviously has more than one problem and needs help. We haven’t descended to new lower levels when I wasn’t looking have we ?
Those of you that do not want to see him get any help should consider this: You want to deny him treatment based on your own personal decision..
OK consider this then: What are you going to feel and think when someone in your family (include extended family in this) needs some (any kind) NHS help and its refused. Are you really sure you want to continue to deny this guy the help he needs-
Yes it looks like Social Services have made another blunder, and that’s another issue. More details are needed and actions taken to sort that problem out.
Whatever happened to looking after our fellow humans.. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:49:17 AM | I think the cost of alcohol related disease is a relevant analogy, Your liver doesn't get destroyed after just a few sessions, it takes many years of sustained abuse and excess before it becomes irreparably damaged, people are often warned to stop, if they are lucky enough to be diagnosed, many choose not to and suffer the consequencies, including my Mate Nutty, who died on sunday, and it's his funeral next tuesday.
The same with smoking and it's complications of circulation and respiratory diseases.
Both are examples of people abusing their bodies through choice over long periods of time. If they stopped, they wouldn't get ill, they don't.
I am glad that the NHS for the most part does not discriminate along arbitrary rules, according to what some individual considers to be "acceptable" behavior.
Most of what happens to us is our fault on some level.
The NHS is an insurance policy, and there are no exclusions, and I hope that continues. | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:57:07 AM | | lets faceif we are going to start blaming people for their conditions we should include anyone and everyone....I mean, if you want to throw yourself off a mountain with 2 bits of wood nailed to your feet why should the NHS pick up the bill when you fall and break your leg? Same applies to pot holers, mountain climbers, surfers, etc, etc, the list is endless. Where do we draw the line? Or is it just yet another dig at people with weight issues again? | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 11:17:11 AM |
I think the cost of alcohol related disease is a relevant analogy
At 70 stone I’m sure we are already looking at massive heart damage and liver damage…Fois Grois anyone!
The american guy (I’m not going to go looking for his name - Super Size Me), he showed some of the damage that is caused to other organs through this sort of eating. Its just the tip of the iceberg in this case…and I’m sure he’d sink the Titanic as well if it hit him! | |
|
| Does 70 stone man deserve NHS treatment?
Posted: 10/21/2009 11:49:34 AM | | This guy has complete personal care, who is doing his shopping and feeding this vast quantity of food to him? If he had meals on wheels and got a double portion he would lose weight!!!!!! | |
|
Home
login 
