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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?      Home login  
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 soliebtdielerche
Joined: 1/11/2009
Msg: 51
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?Page 3 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Fire him immediately. He said that in front of you, his boss? You're doing the lady a disservice by letting him stay.

The only other possible way to handle it is to force him to do her work so she can sit at a desk and play Solitaire all day.
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 52
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 8:28:04 PM
He does not need to be (and should not be) FIRED based on one incident. He DOES need to be reprimanded, verbally and in writing, to give him a clue that this type of behavior is a problem.

If he wants to make asinine comments outside of the office on his own time and in a non-business setting (not an employee outing, offsite business meeting, etc.), then what he says in private life would be none of the boss's business. However, his being IN the office at the time - no matter to whom he was talking nor about whom the comment was intended - makes it an HR nightmare if not dealt with NOW, and a possible liability issue later for the company.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 53
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 8:38:48 PM
if it was my business , i would get rid if him he is a loose cannon, and not dealing with him will come back and bite you in the a ss, its the 21st century, no room for sexist racist employees
 blueceleste
Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 54
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 9:12:10 PM
how is it guy talk when the 2 coworkers used racial slurs to say just so i know what its like to **** a blk girl? guy talk my ass thats like a blk guy sayin at work these 2 white ****es are so easy to get in bed! things like that shouldnt be said at work, if the woman would of heard that she would have a complaint and possibly would of ended up quitting the job cuz of jerks.

ur personal/sex life isnt part of the job, that stays at the door. whatever work needs to be done is what matters on the job. theres a huge difference between guy talk about how hot the girl is vs i just wanna use the **** for a sexual experiment.
 highvoltage 2
Joined: 9/18/2009
Msg: 55
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 9:43:08 PM
You don't have to fire him to have balls enough to confront him. Grow some.
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 56
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 9:56:14 PM
Take it to HR.

Perception is reality in cases of hostile work environment. That is what he has done to you. You have a valid grievance.

If SHE complains, it escalates to sexual harassment.
 edburke001
Joined: 9/5/2009
Msg: 57
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:18:44 PM
The feminized PC crowd eagerly jumps in to show their moral superiority !

Has anyone actually complained.. including the black chick herself ? How about a simple 'please keep your comments to yourself' ?

If I were ever running my own company and someone complained to me, the boss, that he or she was offended over someone saying something, I would fire the person on the spot. Not the supposed offender but the one complaining. I know in today's liberalized/feminized culture it is fashionable to be offended and then demand that others make ammends, but in my company there will be zero tolerance for offendees.
 highvoltage 2
Joined: 9/18/2009
Msg: 58
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:31:47 PM
^
Do I hear lawsuit? You wouldn't own your company long.
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 59
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:39:36 PM
^^No kidding.

There is a standard protocol to follow. Take it to HR.
 wolftxus
Joined: 2/24/2009
Msg: 60
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 11:17:32 PM
Iconoclast has it right (and Yarimelma, it is the law in the US, not an opinion). A hostile work environment can be pointed out by anybody. It does not have to be the two guys or the black girl. Overhearing (at work) is sufficient. However, it only applies to companies of a certain size. I forgot the cutoff, but smaller than x and you are not protected by the law.

Common sense suggests a fair warning, which should cover your ass as a supervisor as it shows action taken. And as this thread shows, not everybody is fully aware of the rules. Here's a thought though (notwithstanding what is written here by the OP): If you overhear something and think it is benign, who can prove you actually heard it? You may have practiced a speech in your head and not paid attention. It does take proof...

We have to take mandatory anti-harrassment training each year at my place of work. They tell you all about 'unwelcome sexual advances', but when I asked how to best find out whether it is welcome or not, they could not answer. There will be frivolous charges as well as tolerated rogues. Time will tell what you can and cannot do. Who would have thought decades ago that smokers have to step outside to smoke?
 all bidness
Joined: 8/17/2009
Msg: 61
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 12:08:43 AM
"I'd like to smoke a joint someday to see what it feels like be high" - OMG you are drug user. Your're fired!

"I wonder if that blonde secretary would go out with me" - OMG this is a hostile work environment and you are sexually harrasing her. Your'e fired!

"I would like to go to the all you can eat pizza place for lunch" - OMG you fat pig. You dont care about the cost of health care to this company. You're fired!

All the man did was express a thought. The hostile work environment would be when the bossman repremands this guy and HR gets involved, all because a guy was thinking something.

The thought police have surely arrived.
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 62
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 12:23:20 AM
Self-indulgent rants aside...it's the LAW.

Take it to HR.
 13karat
Joined: 3/7/2009
Msg: 63
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 4:19:18 AM
Having been at the receiving end of such comments... take care of it! Not only does it affect her... it also affects other men and women who hear his bs comments. You heard only one comment, but you are the boss, you can be guaranteed that there are a lot more comments from him that others hear... and that disgust those that work with him. It creates a "poisoned work atmosphere"... and depending on your harrassment laws, that may be enough for other employees to complain about. My suggestion... have a copy of the harassment laws published or along those lines.... and send out with a memo, telling folks that it has been brought to your attention that this is a problem. Ensure that every single employee gets a copy with their paycheque... or pay stub... and they will get the message.


Keep your ASSumptions to yourself...
He has no business going around harassing employees just because they said "something about something" ...
Unless there is a case in hand. His business is how the guy does his job, not what he does with his dik in his private life.

WRONG! He has no business harassing employees... you are right on that one... but he does have the responsibility, as the business owner, to ensure that others don't get harassed by other employees. His business is not just how ONE guy does his job... his business is to see that everyone can do their job in a harassment-free environment. And what the dik does in his private life becomes HIS concern when the dikhead brings it into the office. The man saying these things was out of line by saying ANYTHING in the workplace.... you keep your private life private.... and pretend the walls have ears... because they do!
 ~Pedro Sanchez~
Joined: 10/5/2009
Msg: 64
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 11:47:28 AM

My question is, other than immediate termination, how would you handle this situation?

Ahh, a moral and business dilemma...I can certainly understand the inaction. Are you chummy with the offending employee? Would it be too far an idea to have a drink one Friday afternoon and have a chat about family, friends...how's work treating ya.....latest goss...then at the end of it all -- and WITHOUT putting the boss hat on -- mention something to the effect of say....you know that time you made a remark about so and so...[enter appropriate contextual mature adult conversation here while drinking beer with some grunts and laughter]...

I am sure bringing up topics like these, while somewhat relaxed, from one male to another, especially one who is slightly senior, and --- without being all moral about it--- can bring some sense to some people...rather than put on a defensive stance...well, it really is such an awkward thing to be saying in this day and age...not about race...not about gender...not about being such a deviant...but really its one of those things d1ckheads are prone to saying out aloud but think sh1t...I shouldn't have said that...now I look like a complete tool, in front of my colleagues and my boss....lucky the boss is not in a moralistic, politically correct motivated, business agenda motivated **stard that I thought he'd be in a situation like this. Phew.

Established employee on check, idiotic comments turned down, business as fecking usual. Can't ask for more.
 bikeman1467
Joined: 9/22/2009
Msg: 65
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 11:59:02 AM

The other day I overheard a conversation between two of my male employees. A woman who is our technical writer is a very attractive single African American. One of the male employees said that he was trying to get her to date him "just so I know what it's like to f*ck a black chick." From what I could tell, he has no interest in her beyond that, and he even made some pretty ugly racial comments in general. I wanted to go right in there and fire him on the spot...My question is, other than immediate termination, how would you handle this situation?

1. I'd start a file on this guy immediately, noting all of his legitimate professional digressions. If this technical writer's statement wasn't said to her or at the worksite, it's not a legitimate digression.
2. Once you have enough of a file on this guy, post his position. Tell the department that you are seeking to expand the staff.
3. Once you hire a new employee, get the bad employee to begin to train the new employee.
4. Once the new employee is adequately trained, terminate employment on the jerk.
 Heptone
Joined: 6/28/2007
Msg: 66
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 12:12:18 PM
I had a run in with a policeman a few years back. With little to no money at the time, he pulled me over for having a brake light out and I was pretty snarly about the whole thing, figuring (correctly) that he was prosecuting me for being poor.
Be that as it may (I agree, brake lights are important ... just let me tell the tale) he then gave me the ticket and started to tell me I should have a better attitude.
I said, "my attitude is perfectly legal, thank you very much."

Op: As someone who thinks liberals are too conservative (to put it one way) I would have been personally as offended as you appear to be had I overhearing the same remarks. But I agree with the thread above that implied you are not the morality police. If these same things were said at an official company function -- a meeting or a conversation with a customer while representing the company, etc., -- or disrupted work in any form I would follow the personnel handbook and do a number on his idiotic butt. But, as far as overhearing this casual conversation not intended for yourself, I agree: Hands off.

Best out, I would think would be to tell him in so many words that you would consider that comment a disruption of work at best and sexual harassment at worst. From a personal point of view, I would take the slightest hint that crossed the line and take it as far as you could.
 daydreamin_honey
Joined: 12/30/2008
Msg: 67
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 12:31:28 PM
If I felt comfortable enough talking to her about such things, I would warn her of his intentions. I would get him written up for sexual harassment and find a way to get him to have to attend a course/class on the subject to put a stop to his crassness. And make a huge example of him to other employees that that sort of behavior will NOT be tolerated in your place of business.
That's just me though.
 4forumonly
Joined: 12/24/2008
Msg: 68
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 2:26:07 PM
OP, the guy who blurred out racial remark is a human too. You should consider him and his family as well. What if he really get fired because of his offensive racial comments? Do you think you make a better human being? I'd guess you just produced a hard core skin head.
What about his family? I guess his family wouldn't think kind of the minority either.

The part racial conflict is a result of intolerance. Are we so tolerant that we're going to lynch people who are racial ignorant now?

Hatred breeds hatred. Education makes educated people.

OP, if you really care about minority unlike so many self righteous people here, who want to polarize the racial relationship, you should educate this employee.

Of course, as an owner you should protect your business. A mandatory work place harassment course is in order for all your employee.

Remember, every individual is a human regardless his color and belief.
 sunrayme
Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 69
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 2:30:52 PM
this is very strange. is it your business what your employees says to each other about their private life in a private conversation? or any kind of relationship between employees is prohibited at your place
 Happily Ever...maybe
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 70
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 3:10:52 PM
Being a racist is completely reprehensible, no doubt. However, does having racist thoughts, or saying something that you overheard and that was not directed at you, something a person should be fired over? I'd say no. Sure, you can fire someone just because you don't like the way he looks or thinks, if you live in an employ at will state. But if you fire everyone who doesn't agree with you, will you have any employees left?

If it were me, I imagine I would speak to him briefly and privately, and express that while his business is his own, he should keep such opinions to himself in the workplace. Also, discuss with him how any conversations he has that might cause problems at work, especially when it comes to potential matters of sexual harassment or just dating coworkers (a bad idea in my book) are plain bad business, and fall within your area of concern. It won't change his attitudes, but it might change his thinking on approaching this particular woman, and who knows, maybe he gets tweaked enough to start looking for another gig, and the problem solves itself.
 NerdStatus
Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 71
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 3:41:23 PM

Unless he propositioned her and she was offended - then no harrasment. Writing him up on his permanent record for this would expose you to a lawsuit when you fire him.

Not true. Talking about sex with co-workers is a big no-no in the realm of sexual harassment.

You said yourself it was after hours - not work related

But said at work, about a co-worker. If you go into your work, after hours, while both of you are off the clock, and you proposition a co-worker – it's still falls under sexual harassment.

You now have libel for even posting this

Since he didn't post the person's name, or his business, it's not libel.

As the employer, you are not allowed to breach or tread into his personal life, unless it affects is work capacity or ethic.

Maybe, but the employee did the breaching here by opening his mouth, at work, and letting those particular words come out.
 Miss W
Joined: 12/4/2006
Msg: 72
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 8:06:15 PM
I would take him aside and let him know that you were within ear reach of the conversation and give him a warning about how it can be construed as sexual harassment and the repercussions for both he and the company. If you ever hear it again, write him up.
 MydogVega
Joined: 9/12/2009
Msg: 73
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/23/2009 6:27:48 AM
Immediate Termination IS the best thing to do. He will cost the company more $ in the long run in law suites.

You can hire a replacement in the mean time. Come up with the excuse that there are getting ready to make some big changes and will need the extra help. In fact, it's the truth in a loop hole.
 Fred Bauder
Joined: 7/18/2009
Msg: 74
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A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/23/2009 6:38:08 AM
The other day I overheard a conversation between two of my male employees. A woman who is our technical writer is a very attractive single African American. One of the male employees said that he was trying to get her to date him "just so I know what it's like to f*ck a black chick." From what I could tell, he has no interest in her beyond that, and he even made some pretty ugly racial comments in general. I wanted to go right in there and fire him on the spot. The problem is, he's very important to us technically, and it would be difficult to quickly replace him. (I'm going to look into that anyway, and that's not my question. I'm not interested nor expecting in any advice on that.)

My question is, other than immediate termination, how would you handle this situation?


The thing is: odds are he's not the only butthead you have working for you. He's just the one you overheard. I doubt you want to get into serious surveillance and actually police the sexual thoughts, talk and behavior of your employees. What you can do is take seriously any complaints the very attractive single African American makes about any behavior he directs at her. And any similar behavior by anyone. Nasty talk is common among men; if you make a habit of listening to it and drawing conclusions from it and taking action, you'll be off in the swamp.

However, one of the things women in the workplace complain about is the atmosphere, of being looked at and treated as sexual objects. And it is incidents such as this one that make up that atmosphere. I'd call him in and make an issue of it and at least give him a strong warning. Whether you overheard or not, he certainly communicated his contempt to the man he was talking to. When he did that he was engaged in racist sexist behavior.
 kittencat2903
Joined: 10/28/2007
Msg: 75
A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/23/2009 7:28:46 PM
[q] The only other possible way to handle it is to force him to do her work so she can sit at a desk and play Solitaire all day. [/q]


Genius suggestion. I like it!
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