| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 6:02:58 PM | Wow, yari. It's a wonder you're single. You clearly respect women so much they should be lining up infront of you.
God help any woman that's foolish or desperate enough to get to know you. | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 6:07:32 PM | I, also, work in HR.
If a supervisor fails to address this problem and it is later found out he knew one of the employees was engaging in this behavior, then the company is being set up to lose a lawsuit from either the woman being discussed or any other person who ever hears this kind of language and is offended. This is why it has to be addressed. At management level, you are no longer afforded the right to look the other way.
This is not my personal opinion. It is the law regarding harassment. Anyone can file a harassment charge whether or not they were the subject of the discussion. All they have to do is "to feel uncomfortable."
Now, the next step that needs to be taken really depends on company policies. A smaller company without a progressive-level discipline system may want to just have a conversation with the employee, fully documented, of course. Larger companies would need to follow their normal discipline procedures. | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 6:09:54 PM | set him down in private and let him know that racial comments are not to be tolerated in the workplace. I'd keep an eye on the technical writer and make it clear that if she has any problems at work that she can come to you.
Or you can
Post a memo about sexual harassment policies that will get most of the people in line except the hard core a holes.
and if he is hell bent then you may have to terminate. | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 6:10:03 PM |
Wow, yari. It's a wonder you're single.
How do you know I am single ? Are you such a loser that you're interested at other people's love life ?
What you're doing is called "flame baiting"... You need to grow up a bit more to even talk to me...
 | |
|
| |
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 6:52:57 PM | This is all so very crazy.
He did not make a racist remark, only describing which of the girls in the office he was interested in. If he said "the redhead" - was that racist?
He did not say anything insulting either. Other than use the word f..k, then maybe he should be cautioned about bad language.
Unless he propositioned her and she was offended - then no harrasment.
Writing him up on his permanent record for this would expose you to a lawsuit when you fire him.
You said yourself it was after hours - not work related.
Unless he said this to a customer and that customer was offended - it has nothing to do with jeopordizing the business.
If you really have to act on this - tell him in a private meeting. Case closed. | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 6:58:49 PM | As the employer, you are not allowed to breach or tread into his personal life, unless it affects is work capacity or ethic.
If it does.
You must preserve and protect the rights of other employees to not be discriminated against.
Your post just put business function above protecting your employees.
You now have libel for even posting this, let alone thinking in this way.
I rest my case. | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 7:02:16 PM | yarimelma likes to type without thinking about how it reads.
I wonder if he talks the same.
Had any 'teef sandwiches' ???
You sound like a good recruit. | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 7:21:29 PM |
Anyone can file a harassment charge whether or not they were the subject of the discussion. All they have to do is "to feel uncomfortable."
Yes, thank you. One doesn't have to be the target of a comment to feel offended by it.
There's no need to fire the man; he has to be given a chance to modify his behaviour appropriately. Sometimes people go around saying stupid crap like that because they don't even realize it's offensive, and no one ever calls them on it. In this case a private talking-to may be all that's needed to make him realize his comments are putting his job at risk.
As an employer I think our OP bears some (maybe a lot) of responsibility for setting the standard for the tone of the discourse around the workplace. Presumably the woman in question also does valuable work for the company - OP risks losing her (and maybe other female employees too) from the company if she gets fed up with working in an old boy's club environment, where Star Techie talks about women as though they are sexual objects, and the boss and everyone else condones this attitude with their silence. | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 8:20:08 PM | Fire him immediately. He said that in front of you, his boss? You're doing the lady a disservice by letting him stay.
The only other possible way to handle it is to force him to do her work so she can sit at a desk and play Solitaire all day. | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 8:28:04 PM | He does not need to be (and should not be) FIRED based on one incident. He DOES need to be reprimanded, verbally and in writing, to give him a clue that this type of behavior is a problem.
If he wants to make asinine comments outside of the office on his own time and in a non-business setting (not an employee outing, offsite business meeting, etc.), then what he says in private life would be none of the boss's business. However, his being IN the office at the time - no matter to whom he was talking nor about whom the comment was intended - makes it an HR nightmare if not dealt with NOW, and a possible liability issue later for the company. | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 8:31:59 PM |
As the employer, you are not allowed to breach or tread into his personal life, unless it affects is work capacity or ethic.
Exactly !
I wonder if he talks the same.
nah! You're too old for my liking. Keep on wondering..... | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 8:38:48 PM | | if it was my business , i would get rid if him he is a loose cannon, and not dealing with him will come back and bite you in the a ss, its the 21st century, no room for sexist racist employees | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 9:12:10 PM | how is it guy talk when the 2 coworkers used racial slurs to say just so i know what its like to **** a blk girl? guy talk my ass thats like a blk guy sayin at work these 2 white ****es are so easy to get in bed! things like that shouldnt be said at work, if the woman would of heard that she would have a complaint and possibly would of ended up quitting the job cuz of jerks.
ur personal/sex life isnt part of the job, that stays at the door. whatever work needs to be done is what matters on the job. theres a huge difference between guy talk about how hot the girl is vs i just wanna use the **** for a sexual experiment. | |
|
| |
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 9:56:14 PM | Take it to HR.
Perception is reality in cases of hostile work environment. That is what he has done to you. You have a valid grievance.
If SHE complains, it escalates to sexual harassment. | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:18:44 PM | The feminized PC crowd eagerly jumps in to show their moral superiority !
Has anyone actually complained.. including the black chick herself ? How about a simple 'please keep your comments to yourself' ?
If I were ever running my own company and someone complained to me, the boss, that he or she was offended over someone saying something, I would fire the person on the spot. Not the supposed offender but the one complaining. I know in today's liberalized/feminized culture it is fashionable to be offended and then demand that others make ammends, but in my company there will be zero tolerance for offendees. | |
|
| |
| |
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/21/2009 11:17:32 PM | Iconoclast has it right (and Yarimelma, it is the law in the US, not an opinion). A hostile work environment can be pointed out by anybody. It does not have to be the two guys or the black girl. Overhearing (at work) is sufficient. However, it only applies to companies of a certain size. I forgot the cutoff, but smaller than x and you are not protected by the law.
Common sense suggests a fair warning, which should cover your ass as a supervisor as it shows action taken. And as this thread shows, not everybody is fully aware of the rules. Here's a thought though (notwithstanding what is written here by the OP): If you overhear something and think it is benign, who can prove you actually heard it? You may have practiced a speech in your head and not paid attention. It does take proof...
We have to take mandatory anti-harrassment training each year at my place of work. They tell you all about 'unwelcome sexual advances', but when I asked how to best find out whether it is welcome or not, they could not answer. There will be frivolous charges as well as tolerated rogues. Time will tell what you can and cannot do. Who would have thought decades ago that smokers have to step outside to smoke? | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 12:08:43 AM | "I'd like to smoke a joint someday to see what it feels like be high" - OMG you are drug user. Your're fired!
"I wonder if that blonde secretary would go out with me" - OMG this is a hostile work environment and you are sexually harrasing her. Your'e fired!
"I would like to go to the all you can eat pizza place for lunch" - OMG you fat pig. You dont care about the cost of health care to this company. You're fired!
All the man did was express a thought. The hostile work environment would be when the bossman repremands this guy and HR gets involved, all because a guy was thinking something.
The thought police have surely arrived. | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 12:10:26 AM | OK, established there was no complaint from the "black chick." The only complaint was from the boss who didn't like the tone of the conversation. What it comes down to is : was the conversation a quiet "what if" between two horny guys at the water fountain or was it in an area where there was or could be an expectation that the banter would be overheard by others.
If the area was open then the employee should be warned WHAT the PC police and their Nazis-like HR storm troopers would do yto his a$$ if ANYBODY else overheard that and from now on keep a lid on it in the workplace. THAT should be the end of the matter. If the guys a moron he'll keep at it and get his butt fired - not for harassing the black chick but for offending the boss's authority which, as I'm reading this, is really ALL there is to go on unless the guy said it where lots of people could hear his dumb-ass comments.
The OP was asking an opinion so I'll go a little further here too. Many businesses and universities have become paralyzed with rules and regs governing inter-action between the genders. It is almost 100% anti-male and women who are complete tiger sharks in the boardroom are viewed as helpless victims of male sexual harassment in the work place. Women who are capable of gelding a guy with one look do NOT need to be protected by some overbearing PC-crazed bureaucrat who dreams up scenarios where some woman has been victimized by another male Cro-magnon who needs a lawsuit against him to teach him proper respect. The entire PC movement has gone insanely overboard to the point most guys might as well just mail their balls in for re-cycling - they'll never be "allowed" to use them anyway!!!
Describing his curiosity about fawking a black chick is using racial slurs now? Gawd! See what I mean? Doesn't matter WHAT the fawk is said some dimwit is going to be offended and there's a whole bureaucracy there waiting to take advantage of it and stick their nose into a situation that at the very worst needs a word of caution by the manager ie. Hey Fred, I overheard what you said. NOT appropriate at work. You're putting the business at risk because if I overheard what you said then somebody else could have too and we do NOT need any friggin "civil rights" lawyers trying to get rich from something YOU said. Capiche?" Should be the end of the matter.
SO ... blue .. what are us honkies allowed to or supposed to call a "black chick" these days without being branded a card carrying KKK member. "Gees, that reflectionarily challenged young lady is gorgeous. I'd love to engage in meaningful conversation with her?"
Like I said about handing in your balls!!
used racial slurs to say just so i know what its like to **** a blk girl?
And YES . I KNOW it is the LAW. I'm saying the law for the most part is a COMPLETE A$$ in these cases. MAKE WORK for lawyers. Forced feminization of the males in almost all adult environments.
We have to take mandatory anti-harrassment training each year at my place of work.
Every incident is blown all out of proportion, lawsuits are filed for the most idiotic and imagined transgression and even WITH anti-harassment training it still comes down to almost 100% anti-MALE and virtually ANY thing that is said or done (even LOOKING can be "interpreted" as harassment) is open to a lengthy and expensive litigation.
Lawyers and PC-HR maniacs suck TWO HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS out of our society every year. A few lawsuits are legit. MOST harassment claims and tribunals, permanent blots on their records to being fired can and should be dealt with in a far more honest and MATURE manner. The pendulum hasn't just swung too far the other way. It's embedded in the ceiling.
| |
|
| |
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 4:19:18 AM | Having been at the receiving end of such comments... take care of it! Not only does it affect her... it also affects other men and women who hear his bs comments. You heard only one comment, but you are the boss, you can be guaranteed that there are a lot more comments from him that others hear... and that disgust those that work with him. It creates a "poisoned work atmosphere"... and depending on your harrassment laws, that may be enough for other employees to complain about. My suggestion... have a copy of the harassment laws published or along those lines.... and send out with a memo, telling folks that it has been brought to your attention that this is a problem. Ensure that every single employee gets a copy with their paycheque... or pay stub... and they will get the message.
Keep your ASSumptions to yourself...
He has no business going around harassing employees just because they said "something about something" ...
Unless there is a case in hand. His business is how the guy does his job, not what he does with his dik in his private life.
WRONG! He has no business harassing employees... you are right on that one... but he does have the responsibility, as the business owner, to ensure that others don't get harassed by other employees. His business is not just how ONE guy does his job... his business is to see that everyone can do their job in a harassment-free environment. And what the dik does in his private life becomes HIS concern when the dikhead brings it into the office. The man saying these things was out of line by saying ANYTHING in the workplace.... you keep your private life private.... and pretend the walls have ears... because they do! | |
|
| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/22/2009 11:47:28 AM |
My question is, other than immediate termination, how would you handle this situation?
Ahh, a moral and business dilemma...I can certainly understand the inaction. Are you chummy with the offending employee? Would it be too far an idea to have a drink one Friday afternoon and have a chat about family, friends...how's work treating ya.....latest goss...then at the end of it all -- and WITHOUT putting the boss hat on -- mention something to the effect of say....you know that time you made a remark about so and so...[enter appropriate contextual mature adult conversation here while drinking beer with some grunts and laughter]...
I am sure bringing up topics like these, while somewhat relaxed, from one male to another, especially one who is slightly senior, and --- without being all moral about it--- can bring some sense to some people...rather than put on a defensive stance...well, it really is such an awkward thing to be saying in this day and age...not about race...not about gender...not about being such a deviant...but really its one of those things d1ckheads are prone to saying out aloud but think sh1t...I shouldn't have said that...now I look like a complete tool, in front of my colleagues and my boss....lucky the boss is not in a moralistic, politically correct motivated, business agenda motivated **stard that I thought he'd be in a situation like this. Phew.
Established employee on check, idiotic comments turned down, business as fecking usual. Can't ask for more. | |
|
Home
login 
