| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 5:56:57 AM | | Send him to diversity training and then to sexual harrassment training. Do the same for his friend(s). You can always send the whole group if you don't want to be too obvious. But if you think he's a real problem in one or both areas, just send him so he'll get the message. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 8:07:22 AM |
Unfortunately this is no longer the case in this brave new world of our modern workplace. As numerous posters have already pointed out, all one has to do is to 'feel uncomfortable' in order for the one who caused you such great offence, regardless of whether it was intentional or not, to be require the gravest punishment. The offence doesn't even have to be actually directed at you for it to be actionable.
Oh I know, I just don't agree with the way the modern workplace is. At the rate we're going people are going to spend eight hours a day just refusing to say anything for fear of being reported for having a personality. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 8:43:52 AM | A lot of posters on this thread are missing the point. Whether or not you think that the employee was out of line DOES NOT MATTER. Disagreement with the law doesn't mean that you can ignore it.
The reality of our times means that what the employee said or did could be construed as sexual harassment/creating discomfort in the workplace - and if that isn't pointed out to him, he may think it's OK to go further with his speech or actions, thus causing an even bigger problem. The boss needs to do what I posted earlier - not fire the guy, but take him aside and point out that this is an HR issue, is illegal, and give him a verbal warning and a written reprimand for his personnel files - just so the employer is covered in case this does escalate later. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 9:01:33 AM | Ah hah now we get to the bottom of the paranoia
Men talk... she didn't hear it/no complaints.. no harm done/case closed! Get back to business......
I know you womenz would love to take his job and cut his penis
So....men talk (boys will be boys excuse) and women are out to castrate and take mens jobs.
Keep your head down and your nose clean and we will see who gets the job done when it comes to office work. People who don't know that are leaving themselves open to replacement. That's what this thread is about isn't it?
Just tell the guy to knock it off and make a note of the time, place and words exchanged. He probably won't stop for long before he starts some other trouble somewhere but you have done your part to protect yourself as an employer who is "responsible for providing a harassment free workplace". | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 9:53:05 AM | yes thats pretty tragic what a git this guy is.
however i don't thinkyou can fire him as his actions are not strictly work related.
i would go down the route of having a pretty strong chat to make it known that he was overheard and that his coomments are not acceptable at work | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 12:36:18 PM |
if I'm smart enough to run a business, I should have enough common sense to handle this issue without coming to a dating site for advice......unless I'm just a little stupid and need some attention at the expence of my employees.
Again sir! I do agree.
That's what happens when people with absolutely no common sense or the ability to lead come here and start acting like they know what they're taking about.
But that's expected. This is being "the internet" and all. Everybody is an expert in everything here.  | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 12:58:14 PM |
A lot of posters on this thread are missing the point. Whether or not you think that the employee was out of line DOES NOT MATTER. Disagreement with the law doesn't mean that you can ignore it.
Yourself included.No one broke the law. Even if he said this right to the womans face and she omplained which isnt the issue it's not the law. He wouldn't be dealing with the local law enforcment rather human resources which aren't cops. In an extreme case maybe authorities would be included but this wouldn't qualify. Back to the point he didn't say this to the woman and she never found out and therefore it's not making her uncomfortable. so human resources cant even step in.Unless she finds out mothing can be done | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 1:44:29 PM |
Oh I know, I just don't agree with the way the modern workplace is. At the rate we're going people are going to spend eight hours a day just refusing to say anything for fear of being reported for having a personality.
This is unfortunately what's happened. My industry television in particular used to be an energetic and dynamic place to work, and it was reflected in what ended up on the screen. Now the studios are full of people who are so afraid of offending anyone and so afraid of trying something new, that everything is 'safe' and bland. There is no creative process because that would require you not to be politically-correct and maybe even swear from time to time.
We are so busy pretending to be nice we may as well be drones.
A lot of posters on this thread are missing the point. Whether or not you think that the employee was out of line DOES NOT MATTER. Disagreement with the law doesn't mean that you can ignore it.
Then the law is an ass. The bloke in question was obviously aware of the law and obviously aware social propriety because he didn't say it in front of the whole lunch room, he said it in an atmosphere of what he thought was PRIVACY ie: Nobody else around, after hours, just him and his mate. Was his mate offended? Did the eaves-dropping boss want to have him fired as well?
The reality of our times means that what the employee said or did could be construed as sexual harassment/creating discomfort in the workplace
The problem is, we all have different ideas as to our 'discomfort' levels.
- and if that isn't pointed out to him, he may think it's OK to go further with his speech or actions, thus causing an even bigger problem.
He already knew, which is why he did it in private. The bigger problem occurred when the boss listened-in to a private conversation. If the boss had an issue he should have told the bloke he was overheard and tell them both it was innappropriate, which he did not. Instead, this bloke will probably find himself out of a job and he will have not one clue why. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 4:36:58 PM | ^^^ Interesting that the last two posters, who missed my point yet again, are not in the US and I presume are not US employers who have to CYA.
This isn't the type of law-breaking that makes the cops show up. Assuming that the employee did know not to speak that way in front of his intended hook-up or other employees during work hours is simply naive - he may not know, and just happened to be doing it after hours. My point - again - is that the employer who overheard the guy does have the duty to let the employee know that according to US labor laws, this is a problem, whether or not the employer and employee agree with the law. The employer has to cover the liability of the company. If another woman was there and overheard the guy's remarks, and she was offended and made a fuss, it does not matter (a) whether or not she was overreacting, (b) whether or not the comments referred to her or to the other woman, (c) whether or not the employee knew that he shouldn't make those comments in a work-related setting; by law, she could report the guy. Now you may indeed say that "the law is an ass", but these laws were written to address the more egregious cases of workplace harassment - and as we all know, sometimes the law is not applied with finesse. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 4:49:34 PM | I really fail to see what this is even doing on the sex and dating forum. It's a matter for labour legislation.
Really though, an employer is obligated to nip this in the butt before it gets too far. At the every least this kind of discussion shouldn't have been taking place in the workplace. If the boss overheard anyone else could have, this should be discouraged. All too often employers ignore issues until they end up in litigation over them. When all they had to do was talk to the employee in question and put out a firm policy for workplace behaviour. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 5:32:15 PM | Nope the cops wouldn't be called in , but definitely the labor board, oh yes. You have to be careful what you say to gays, to anyone. You certainly can be fired for sexual harassment, innuendos, even ethnic jokes. Soo .workers beware. Really if something that you say is hurtful to someone else, then you shouldn't say it. At least at work.
Take it outside, off the premises, then they can't get ya. Silly huh ? Yes it sure is. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 5:56:22 PM | what is raciest about saying Id like to fvck the black chick ... she is after all a black chick ...he is definately not biased against blacks ... now if he said id fvck that chick if she wasnt a black chick that would be biased but still not raciest ... now if he said that i wish they wouldnt hire a black chick that would be raciest ... how does him saying he wants to date/fvck a black chick infringe on her rights ..., until she says NO of course
the very advice many of you gave got me into hot water once upon a time .... I over heard two guys saying the almost exact thing about a woman (she was not black though ) ... I verbally warned them about it documented it ..and told her what they had said .. well a month later they were married and he alleged that I was hitting on her by my actions ... she went along with his accusations and ...I was reprimanded....
just remember a lot of guys say Id like to fvck that chick .. and end up marrying the same chick ... and after she marries im she will resent anything you have told her against him
remember you are the boss ...when push comes to shove you are the enemy ..his enemy her enemy ...when you are the boss no good turn goes unpunished ..if you try to help an employee it will be used against you...mind your own business ..until someone makes it your business
NOW my advice ...make it a point to be very hard of hearing ... if no one knows you heard it then you didnt .... keep your nose in your own business ... only take action if it can be proved you know something or someone complains
even saying that it is against company policy for employees to date can get you sued ...and they will win .... you cannot tell them what they can do after hours ..unless you can prove it will affect the work place | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 7:30:00 PM |
My point - again - is that the employer who overheard the guy does have the duty to let the employee know that according to US labor laws, this is a problem, whether or not the employer and employee agree with the law.
Which is exactly what the boss should have done instead of coming on to a dating site in an attempt to slur him on the internet. The boss projected his own moral bias onto an essentially HR issue, tell him to 'pull his head in' on company property, but don't crucify him!
(c) whether or not the employee knew that he shouldn't make those comments in a work-related setting; by law, she could report the guy.
So, for his ignorance, he gets fired?
Now you may indeed say that "the law is an ass", but these laws were written to address the more egregious cases of workplace harassment - and as we all know, sometimes the law is not applied with finesse.
The unfortunate by-product of that is the legislation now becomes a weapon to get rid of somebody who's not nice to be around, regardless of the quality of their work. If somebody is lacking in social skills, or worse, someone is deliberately targeted by another, they can be dealt with because they make another person 'uncomfortable. Mud sticks and it's hard to come back from a false accusation. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/25/2009 8:26:11 PM |
If another woman was there and overheard the guy's remarks, and she was offended and made a fuss, it does not matter
You are absolutely right however there is alot riding on that if. See in this case it didn't happen therefore your whole theory goes out the window with that if. That is the exact point you seem to miss.there wasn't anyone else there to get offended therefore he really didn't do anything wrong other than taking a risk of being overheard by a woman or someone who was offended. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/26/2009 2:59:19 PM | Ahh, the OP has returned to the fray.
OP, when you eaves-dropped on your employees, did you let them know you were there?
Did you specifically tell the man in question what you heard and that it was innappropriate and you would be making a note of it and file it with HR?
Did you specifically inform HR about what you overheard and who it involved, including the lady who was talked about?
Would love to know the answers to these questions. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/26/2009 3:01:39 PM |
OP, when you eaves-dropped on your employees, did you let them know you were there?
Nope. People come and go in that area continually and nobody is required to announce their presence. Moreover, I was not "eavesdropping." I overheard them. There's a difference.
Did you specifically tell the man in question what you heard and that it was innappropriate and you would be making a note of it and file it with HR?
It's been handled. Thanks for your concern. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/26/2009 3:09:42 PM |
It's been handled. Thanks for your concern.
Hang on a minute, you opened the door when you started this thread, I and others on this thread would like to know specifically how you 'handled' it. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/26/2009 3:22:33 PM | You should fire him. He can be replaced. If he were a black guy and saying the same thing about the blondie in the office I'm sure action would've been taken immediately. Do not underestimate the female he referred to in a sexual manner. Us black women hear everything and are good for making allies in hostile situations. We have been trained to keep our ears/eyes open while remaining seemingly aloof.
A law suit would be bad for you. Especialy since this thread makes it clear that you had prior ongoing knowlegde of the offense. Oh and it is permanently fixed to this site. All of your equiptment can be summoned if she is a really smart woman and makes the request. CYA and fire him because you never know. I am not understanding why her wellbeing is not in your and the company's best interest. Just saying.
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/26/2009 3:42:18 PM |
If he were a black guy and saying the same thing about the blondie in the office I'm sure action would've been taken immediately.
How do you know this?
Us black women hear everything and are good for making allies in hostile situations. We have been trained to keep our ears/eyes open while remaining seemingly aloof.
Meaning what? | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/26/2009 4:30:04 PM | | Hey assydneymale - I was very direct and to the point. You should be having no issues understanding. Now you just sit back and wait for OP to post as you were originally. Is that not what you were doing earlier? | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/26/2009 5:17:18 PM |
Hey assydneymale - I was very direct and to the point. You should be having no issues understanding. Now you just sit back and wait for OP to post as you were originally. Is that not what you were doing earlier?
You made a bunch of statements without backing them up with empirical evidence.
The OP is yet to explain what action he actually took to resolve the matter after starting a thread inviting opinion. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/26/2009 6:09:28 PM | multispindle^^^ Then she should be treated exactly the same. The main problem I had was the fact that the owner had to think about the situation. Yes, he has since then taken care of it but if someone is willing to use sexual profanity and include a co worker in their comments something should be done immediately. Very unprofessional and seemingly biased to me. For the record had he not mentioned her race I would still feel the same about the situation.
There is an oversexualization of black women, not to say that other races don't have the same problem. I just feel that we do not get taken seriously and it happens quite a bit in the workplace. It's very stressful to be at work and have people around you who have to 'think' about whether or not 'you' are worthy of respect from your co workers.
(multi this is for that other guy not you).
Oh and for the gentleman who questioned me who is not a U.S. resident. Please don't try to understand me. It's a waste of your time. I have plenty of evidence and experience in this issue and you do not. You are not a female and you are not black therefore you can't simply understand what I'm talking about. Stick to your coffee outings. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/26/2009 6:20:03 PM |
You are not a female and you are not black therefore you can't simply understand what I'm talking about.
So that shuts down all discussion as far as you're concerned?
Some might call that statement both racist and sexist. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/26/2009 6:27:36 PM | | ^^^^ Don't get upset. It's just a fact unless you have had a skin bleaching and a sex change that is what it is. It's not about shutting down the the discussion. It's about you realizing that you just don't and can't know everything. If you have some stories of your own about the politics of 'being' a black female in the workplace got for it. I'm sure I will be amused. | |
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