| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/28/2009 11:37:00 PM | Not ugly in the least... Merely your interpretation... Relax...
Simply a case of some braggart holding court around the water-cooler...
And why are you listening in?... A graduate from the "Hitler Youth"?...
Hear me... "Politically Correct" is neo- Nazism...
Lighten up... Chances are, the woman is smart enough to call his bluff...
Leave her to her own devices, and don't underestimate... She'll put a knot in his crotch without your interference...
And I don't know what it is you do; but go back to work... | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/29/2009 12:21:38 AM | | This guy is a knob and a wannabe player, but it's probably all locker room talk and yes both men and women do it. The OP should have made noise at the time to indicate he was there and simply said that this type of talk is not to be used on company property and he wanted no dating drama in the office, because it was bad for business and the potential harressment issues, the problem would have be solved quickly. If he noticed him bothering the female employee then he could take more drastic measures. Many offices now are opting for a no dating policy to avoid these type of situations. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/29/2009 1:17:21 AM |
I just don't get it when people try to make a point that they honestly have no experience on/with 'personaly'.
So, by your logic Oprah Winfrey has no business having an opinion on parenthood and marriage, both of which she has not experienced 'personally' and both of which she regularly bangs on about?
You are correct the shmucks are not worth my time.
You resort to name-calling when you have no argument. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/29/2009 2:19:15 AM | I suppose it didn't occur to the OP to ask the woman if she was offended? Surely that would be the first step. I'm sure she could handle idiots like this guy - because what he said was extremely offensive - but she may have felt intimidated. And she might not have felt comfortable reporting him.
I don't think it's a bad idea to talk to the guy. Whether or not we like it, sexual harrassment laws do exist and I'm sure that's a pretty good example of it. He needs them to be explained to him.
Actually, why don't you get someone in to talk to the staff about what the laws mean? Or add it to their paperwork when they join the company? It's certainly in my contract - if you break company policies, you are fired. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/29/2009 2:37:44 AM | Are you the owner or not?
If you are ~ Why isn't there a sexual harassment policy / training regimen in existence?
If you aren't the owner ~ read it... then share it with your "irreplaceable" employee.
This conduct is ignorant and unacceptable.. period.
For the record: You can't pick and chose when you want to be the boss ~ treading dangerous waters.  | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/29/2009 7:03:17 AM | | I skimmed alot of this thread. OP, what would your reaction be if the woman in question was caucasion and perhaps a redhead? Would your reaction be different? | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/29/2009 7:59:53 AM | Sorry Darlin'.....but...but...buttttttttttt.... that is a bit of a cop-out... I mean... in my world...no one is that indispensable....well unless they are flying the Space Shuttle perhaps and everyone else is sick or something.
Don't know your field...but...really now... I think it would send a good message to people...that some behaviour is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.
I am sure HE....others now realize that they can get away with a lot of things at the work site as they are 'vital' to the operation....and they see that you tolerate things and look the other way.
I thank you for sharing this story....this dilhema with us.
I see where your heart is in this.....I really do... you have a business to run and the other isssues will have to take 2nd or 3rd place in importance.
I too have let things pass..... ignored bad behaviour....even offensive behaviour ...as a grunt I have little say at times.
I have as a supervisor, manager called people on their comments and behaviour and have had to reprimand people.
It's a tough call. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/29/2009 10:32:02 AM | | OP; The point at which you realized the conversation you were 'overhearing' involved something you considered inappropriate you had an opportunity to intervene right then and there. You allowed that opportunity to pass and opted instead to take a voyeuristic approach. For whatever reason your choice at the time was poor and now you're left with the consequence of your failure to act. Spilled milk, consider next time a better course of action like rendering your opinion to the parties involved at the time so they know where you stand on whatever issue is being discussed. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/29/2009 10:57:11 AM | You should have walked in on the conversation and said, "That's funny, because I was wondering what focking your sister would feel like."  | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/29/2009 2:09:37 PM |
And ? Who are you ? moral police ?
Unless she complains for sexual harassment ~ or they do something going against company policy. It's none of your business.
You can't control people's comments, ideas, thoughts ~ it's a free country. You were not even invited to that conversation.
I say shut the f up... and mind your own business
Hmmm... the person in question is HIS employee... in other words, the OP isn't just the boss, he's the owner...
The business owner should just "shut the f up"?!? About an employee who could "sink" his business?!?
Methinks SOMEONE got himself fired on a sexual harrassment complaint for being an ignorant, sexist douche-bag... Sure does look that way... | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/29/2009 4:20:46 PM | (Ipostonforums) I'd start to hit on him, and when he wonders why you've gone gay for him you can tell him because you just wanted to know what it'd be like to have gay sex.
I actually had a gay guy hit on me at work once: put his hands on my hips and let them linger there. In my defence, I DO have a cute azz, though...  I even had a witness!
But seriously, sexual harrassment is no joking matter. On the THIRD hand, though, I don't think that what this guy did came anywhere close to sexual harrassment. Poor judgement, sure. But sexual harrassment? C'mon...
(puts hand to m0uth and blows a raspberry)
Bimbly | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/29/2009 4:23:16 PM |
(barbee1970) Why didn't you fire him?
Because that'd be a really stupid, disproportional response?
That's sexual harassment...
Oh, is not.
Bimbly | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/29/2009 4:24:58 PM | Honest and straight opinion.
That male employee who wants to get into that technical writer's pants is a racist jerk who has attitude from the middle age. I'd seriously talk to that technical writer and give a warning about that male employee's motivations to date her. I do not take any opinion about firing him, that's totally another story which I don't have interest at all, but I'd make that "dating" as difficult as possible and protect my fellow employee from that pig. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/29/2009 4:46:16 PM |
I'd seriously talk to that technical writer and give a warning about that male employee's motivations to date her.
Would you do the same thing if the offending employee was female and the technical writer was male?
The OP had the obligation to tell the offender about unnacceptable behaviour in the workplace (despite the fact the conversation was private and after hours), he does not have the right to decide who his employees date and for what reason.
I'd make that "dating" as difficult as possible and protect my fellow employee from that pig.
That's a pretty paternalistic attitude, you would set the Woman's Movement back 30 years, and presume to know 'what's best' for the woman in question, who would be quite capable of making up her own mind.
Would you then listen-in on every employee's conversation to decide who you think they should date or have sex with? | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 4:11:57 AM |
On the THIRD hand, though, I don't think that what this guy did came anywhere close to sexual harrassment. Poor judgement, sure. But sexual harrassment? C'mon...
Well, I been asking this question from all these hotheads who want to get that guy fired, beheaded, etc.
That woman he was talking about, doesn't even know what was said about her.
What is this a long distance sexual harassment?
That's sexual harassment...
Oh, is not.
Agree..One guy saying his fantasy out loud. If that guy gets fired, I want to be in a courtroom if he sues that boss back.
Boss- Your honor he didn't actually said that to the female employee, I just heard him talking about it to another male employee. Yeah, that would be a strong case. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 4:22:42 AM | ^^No, Zuglo, he said it to the woman. That's why people are saying it's sexual harrassment...
No! You're right! I just re-read the OP.
Now this is completely different!!! He didn't sexually harrass anyone. Wow, I need to start reading more carefully..lol.. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 4:37:02 AM | Well, FFS, I am glad you came to my little "That not sexual harassment" camp..LOL
Welcome.
I think most posters here thinks that he said it to that woman, or she heard it, know about it, etc.
I mean come on lets' face it...Guys will be guys..
Is there a guy who never said anything like that to another guy?? Thank you.
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 4:37:44 AM |
Now this is completely different!!! He didn't sexually harrass anyone. Actually, sexual harassment doesn't have to be an action performed or directed at a person, part of the definition of sexual harassment contains the following:
sexually oriented remarks or behaviour which may reasonably be perceived to create a negative psychological and emotional environment for work and study.
As the owner of the business, the OP needs to be sensitive to even the perception of sexual harassment as he sees is reasonable. Though the verbiage of the italicized excerpt might change, the underlying meaning is the still there for companies to have to comply with... | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 4:52:47 AM |
sexually oriented remarks or behaviour which may reasonably be perceived to create a negative psychological and emotional environment for work and study.
*Sigh*
I do think that the action does have to be performed, or directed at the person.
How else can she feel the she was harassed? She doesn't even know what was said about her.
So, I doubt that she now has a negative environment for work and study.
Come on, now..
Attractive lady works at the office, don't you think she knows what guys think/say about her behind her back?
The only crime that guy is guilty of is being stupid for letting the boss hearing it. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 5:13:05 AM |
sexually oriented remarks or behaviour which may reasonably be perceived to create a negative psychological and emotional environment for work and study. *Sigh* I do think that the action does have to be performed, or directed at the person. How else can she feel the she was harassed? She doesn't even know what was said about her. So, I doubt that she now has a negative environment for work and study. Come on, now.. Attractive lady works at the office, don't you think she knows what guys think/say about her behind her back? The only crime that guy is guilty of is being stupid for letting the boss hearing it.
Simply because the comments weren't directed at him, and the conversation didn't include him, does not discount that it was sexual harassment in that it caused a negative environment for work for someone.
I don't just think this, it's a fact... the same as someone's viewing of lewd or lascivious emails, pictures or other media in a work environment falls under sexual harassment as well.
Contact your HR department for verification...  | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 10:51:44 AM | | I would inform the technical writer ( an all other employee's) to stay clear of this guy and I would totally shut him out...I and my staff would not say word one to him, exclude him from everything......with the hopes that after enough isolation he'll quit.. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 11:04:04 AM | Take the employee aside and tell them that reguardless of their views, when they are in your establishment, they will behave in a way that is open and accepting to other cultures, creeds, and belief systems, ESPECIALLY those held by their co-workers. If they again breech the rules of conduct, they will be asked to leave. Notice "while within your establishment." Not "while around black employees".
Then back it up if you have to. Noone is EVER to valuable to replace. Period. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 11:16:04 AM |
I would inform the technical writer ( an all other employee's) to stay clear of this guy and I would totally shut him out...I and my staff would not say word one to him, exclude him from everything......with the hopes that after enough isolation he'll quit.. The individual would then have a human rights violation claim that they could file against the employer for engaging in such actions. Not a very well thought out course of action.
Take the employee aside and tell them that reguardless of their views, when they are in your establishment, they will behave in a way that is open and accepting to other cultures, creeds, and belief systems, ESPECIALLY those held by their co-workers. If they again breech the rules of conduct, they will be asked to leave. Notice "while within your establishment." Not "while around black employees". Better resolution to the situation, but it would have to be backed up with a statement that is signed by the employee understanding the rules of the workplace as outlined by the human rights commission and the ministry of labour. A verbal warning is a courtesy that is generally negated after the occurrence since it is not proof of the conversation having happened. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 11:21:04 AM | HR law usually recommends verbal and/or written warnings prior to termination. I would recommend writing a letter (edit: in which you have him sign, for compliance) noting his racially insensitive and inappropriate comments and put him on warning that if such occurs again, he could be facing termination. Keep the letter in his personnel file.
It's your company's a$$ in a sling too, if he ends up doing anything that makes her feel discriminated against. Just because he has a certain technical skillset, doesn't mean he's irreplaceable. | |
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| A Very Ugly Situation - What Would YOU Do?
Posted: 10/30/2009 12:45:21 PM |
I would inform the technical writer ( an all other employee's) to stay clear of this guy and I would totally shut him out...I and my staff would not say word one to him, exclude him from everything......with the hopes that after enough isolation he'll quit..
That's right, give him a gutless dose of passive-aggression. In my view, people who engage in this type of mind-f*ck are beneath contempt.
Is this how you run your business KHA? What a stupid and cruel thing to suggest, and the man in question would not learn any lesson from his actions, he would just think his boss and co-workers were jerks, and rightly so.
He was crass and indiscrete, plenty of posters have already suggested the right way to handle it through HR. | |
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