| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 2:53:34 PM | I have no trouble with a cuddle and kissing. I am not interested in "going further" unless the object of my affection are on the same page regarding a relationship. In short I do not do friends with benefits, casual sex or sex for sport. I like to be clear from the start that I am not sexual with someone unless and until I care for him deeply and we are looking at a relationship. This takes time a lot of attention, talking and a lot of fun. I like kissing and cuddling but will limit any sexual activity unless there is an agreement about where sexual activity is taking us. Ie. a relationship. | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 2:57:14 PM | Well, Ulysses, the reason that it's so hard to separate romance as you put it from sex is simply that they are inherently connected. I can only tell you what I learned over the years and what I believe. I think that this is probably by far the majority view as well.
First of all, sex is not an option. For you as an individual it may be although an uncomfortable one, but for us, mankind as a species, it's not. It's the survival of our species. For that reason we have developed rules, customs mores over the centuries to try and guarantee the best chance of survival for our offspring. Restrictions on who you should have sex with and under what circumstances basically derive from that.
In addition to that, most of us learn that sex is best, most enjoyable whith someone with whom you are connected, not only by physical attraction (which is easy) but emotionally, spiritually, intellectually. Thats what marriage is all about, or at least a good union should be.
Dating is our way of selecting our mates. If you look at these forums you will see an amazing variety of thing people look for or say they do, lol, but what it gets down to is do I connect with this person in many way so strongly that I would like to spend my life with him or her.
Marriage is a sexual relationship. At its core, that's what defines it. Choosing to marry someone normally means choosing them as an exclusive sexual partner for the rest of your life. It's not a casual promise. That's why most people want to see if they connect on that most important level as well as on the many others. It's pretty simple really.
This is not about sex as recreation. It's about a vital part of the bonding process.
Over the years I had a number of different partners. What I found out about sex was that the more connected, bonded to my partner I was the better the sexual intimacy became. It's not rocket science as they say. I think the religious, social cultural restrictions of sex to marriage mostly come from a time before reliable birth control and a time when women had a hard time even surviving alone, especially if she had children.
I think Flame is giving pretty good advice actually. I'm sort of laughing at myself really, remembering. Some 25 years ago I met a very attractive, woman shortly after breaking up with a long time girl friend. Like Flame and you she was and still is in fact a True Believer. We started dating and soon ended up in bed mostly at her instigation. I asked her about it long afterward actually, after we had been married for a year or so. I knew of course that she had been married and divorced for several years but wouldn't dream of sleeping around for fun. She just said, I just though I was falling in love with you and starting to think of you as a possible mate, and sex is just too important in marriage to be left to chance. I think most people now would agree. | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 3:00:24 PM | I appreciate what you are saying Bluesman2008, but I consider myself pretty 'normal' despite my, uh, 'condition.' Maybe I am not but if it is, I think it's revealed in other ways.
I agree that sex is 'normal' but if you look at our race, so is killing each other as well, and I doubt you'd recommend that I would carry that out (though I have those thoughs on occasion too  ). Ok, I know that argument is debatable to some and it is meant in a quasi-facetious manner, though there is truth in that too.
The point is that I think where we are defined differently from the animals is that we are bless (cursed?) with thinking and not subject to mere instincts. We CAN control our desires otherwise they will control us. We can, for no better reason than our choice, CHOOSE to act and choose not to act in certain ways. It's what defines us as a race, and makes us responsible for our actions too.
How can this be true of so many aspects of our lives and not in our sexuality? I'm as driven as you are but I hold back. Some would see that as a mark of character and not 'hangups' or being somehow dangerously 'repressed.' Indeed, repressed I am, and outside of the confines of marriage, my sexuality is. NOT that I don't want too; I'd be a liar and a hypocrite if I said I didn't.
For those who are not, though, how do you cope, especially when you don't have a partner? Maybe that is a bad question in this forum to ask - I shudder at the responses but then this thread is about understanding this vital part of our humanity and for me to consider how it has affected those relationships in my life.
Still if you over eat you get fat. If you over drink you can become an alcholic, and if you don't show some restraint in some areas, you go to jail or suffer social diseases too, so we do place limits on ourselves if we want to function. But in relationships, this seems to have become more vital over time and maybe I really need to think about it; not that I want to compromise my values just to be with someone, but because it is an admitted need for me too.
As for a 'good hooker' is there such a thing? A friend tried one and told me it was a 'dead f#$ck' and so I'm not inclined to try that. Thanks for the advice though . Frankly, if I can't attract a woman, though, I'd rather be alone and celibate. When/if I do, though, I've perhaps got to learn to see things differently.
More thoughts?
Ulysses. | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 3:03:37 PM | p.s. - Doesn't "practicing" something imply you are working on getting better at it???
Personally I'd rather practice having sex
I had to comment on this one! Maybe yes you make me smile!! I have been 'practicing' virginity so long I think I'm an expert at it. Are you suggesting now that I am an accomplished virgin, it's time for me to learn something new?
Thank you for making me smile!!
Ulysses. | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 3:07:18 PM | Wonderful post, Flowerforce. But maybe that begs the question: what is a relationship to you? You can still be sexual with someone and it not be what I believe you are saying is a long term relationship.
Can you 'last' long with only cuddles and kisses? Doesn't that, invariably, lead to a desire for something more? I certainly felt that so I imagine you have too.
Do people feel 'robbed' if the 'relationship' fizzles or only lasts a few times? I think sex/getting naked with someone is very personal and I sometimes don't know how people can be so carefree about it, without becoming rather jaded.
Thoughts?
Ulysses. | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 3:19:00 PM | "These beliefs have created sexual abuse, sexual abusers, sexual addictions and all sorts of dysfunction within relationships that will ultimately destroy not only that relationship but the very core of the person who tried to so hard to build their convictions around it."
I understand and, again, very much appreciate your comments FlameNFire. You have some very thought provoking comments and I am glad that you chose to comment on this thread. It's one thing to be a Christian who values virginity but it's another to share with someone who is/was in a similar situation.
Did you struggle with your beliefs when you arrived (I'd say came or come but you have to watch your words in these forums) at your new views? Have you struggled with them since? How did you finally reconcile them with faith? If any of this is too personal to ask or share, maybe email me in private.
Either way, you seem like an awesome person too. I like the way this debate is going so please, everyone, keep posting. I appreciate all your comments.
Ulysses. | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 3:36:32 PM | "Imulysses....People question when there is doubt. What made you question your ceibacy?"
Fair question, Arabianangel. I guess it was what you might think or suspect. I have lost most girlfriends over this NO Sex rule before marriage and I need to understand if it is worth it. I'm sure that's not the only reason but sex has always been part of it.
If I don't 'go for it' (suggest it), girls think I'm not interested in more beyond friends. If I do and don't follow through, it's like I'm leading them on or not serious. I just can't figure out why when we are cuddling, and doing other romantic things together that penis-in-vagina before marriage is such a deal-breaker. They all say I'm an 'awesome guy' but....you get the idea.
More thoughts?
Ulysses. | |
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PiggyT
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Joined: 9/14/2009
Msg: 36 | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 3:54:07 PM | Ulysses,
After having my life controlled, virtually destroyed and suffering abuse in "the name of the church" and finally becoming a strong, healthy independent woman I decided to eliminate the things in my life that had brought on the abuse and negativity and I had to face the reality of the Churches role in what had happened in my life. I went through a number of years of soul searching of who I am, what I am all about, what and who God is to me, and for me (Like I said, this isn't for everybody), for me, my God isn't about hell and damnation and judgement and rules and regulations and denying basic human needs such as sexuality. I will say again, I'm not promoting that I'll just go and sleep with anyone or anything, but I am a very sexual person and I believe I was created that way and don't need to make any apologies for it. That is who I am. I am not going to saddle myself into a relationship Im not ready for simply because I have sexual needs, nor am I going to deny those needs. Once I came to terms with my relationship with God outside of "The Church" no, it wasn't hard for me, I do not suffer from guilt or conviction. I am not concerned that I am "going to hell or my soul is lost". I feel total confidence in my relationship Spiritually with my understanding of who God is to me. And I have no guilt or shame in saying that I am a sexual creature, I enjoy sex, I need sex and I have no intention of making any apologies to anyone for that. I don't take it casually, but I am not looking for a lifetime partner right now either. I hope that makes sense and I'm not just rambling here? I'm not saying that is how you should view it, you asked me how I felt and how I came to my decision and that is my answer. Please know that I totally respect you for your decisions!!!!! | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:06:49 PM |
"I just can't figure out why when we are cuddling, and doing other romantic things together that penis-in-vagina before marriage is such a deal-breaker."
Well to most women when you get 'close' to someone, a physical relationship enhances this 'cloeseness'. Hence, it can be an important part of a relationship -- to many. It's the emotional connection that you have with someone you love. You are 'married' to them, if you take it metaphorically like I do.
Women have needs as well. 
It's better to ask, 'why celibacy is the right course to take '. | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:08:56 PM | "Op I`m still a Virgin! My Lovely arse is nice and tight and never been penetrated! "
These are the kinds of comments and details I'd hoped we'd avoid. Does anyone else have something more productive/mature to add?
Ulysses. | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:13:28 PM | msg. 29...
p.s. - Doesn't "practicing" something imply you are working on getting better at it???
Personally I'd rather practice having sex
I had to comment on this one! Maybe yes you make me smile!! I have been 'practicing' virginity so long I think I'm an expert at it. Are you suggesting now that I am an accomplished virgin, it's time for me to learn something new?
Thank you for making me smile!!
You are soooo welcome!
To answer your question ... sheesh, ... guess I need to fall back on my favorite answer...
Maybe yes...!
( ok, seriously, I had no idea how well that username would work for me when I chose it.)
Ultimately, you need to do what feels right for you ... it's between you, your partner, and your god, and that's it.
That said, most girls our age DO like a guy with a little experience under his belt, if ya know what I mean. 
I'm terrible, I know. 
I respect your decision either way, because you have to do what is right for YOU !
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:18:35 PM | | Im a virgin. Part of it is due to lack of meeting women, the other is I just want to make sure its with the right person. I dont want to be like some guys who make sex thier #1 priority | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:23:08 PM | It's okay to wait for marriage. But if after a few months of a new relationship, if they don't feel, at least, the desire to have sex... watch out, that could be a problem.
For the most part, I think you should strive to be monogamous. I think that will keep most people out of trouble. That withstanding, once the cat is out of the bag and you are not a virgin anymore, I think it's reasonable and natural to start having sex with your new lover anytime from the 3rd date to two months. | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:26:11 PM | There is nothing wrong with being intimate with either one's self or someone one feels something for.
We all have urges, but it is how one chooses to express and experience them that determines their character.
I was brought up Catholic, very strict, my first partner was my husband, but we didn't have the right chemistry.
That caused a rift between us, and in turn it caused me illness.
I am a woman, I want to feel loved and I want to be loved, body, mind and soul.
I won't apologise for that, I won't make excuses for that because IT IS NOT WRONG. | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:43:49 PM | | I agree that Orthodox religions have to some degree screwed up some people when it comes to a satisfying, loving sexual relationship... but BLUESMAN .. find a good hooker?" .. (is that from experience ) would be the worst thing a person could do. What about self respect .. anyway does not sound like he has sexual issues. | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:45:04 PM | Ulysses, stick to your guns... there are plenty of religious women who think like you do... and although there are nut cases in every town, and every group, there tends to be more healthy and relationship worthy people in religious circles. Plus, a virgin will likely tend to have less baggage, no STD's, and be better relationship material.
Finally, what's the big deal about not having sex, something you have never done and therefore don't miss, for a couple years until you get married? If you are going to be married and having sex for 50 years, two years is nothing. Do you smell what I'm cooking?!
(Like I said though above, make sure has the desire after you have been kissing for a couple months, you don't want to be in a sexless marriage... it's not normal or healthy... you will be able to figure this out)
I applaud you. | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:51:28 PM | msg.38
Op I`m still a Virgin! My Lovely arse is nice and tight and never been penetrated!
This reminded me of my Catholic girlfriend who was TECHNICALLY still a "virgin" because she'd only taken it up the *ass before her wedding day! | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:52:06 PM | | My belief is that God made man and woman to be sexually attracted to each other. Man made up the wedding ceremony. You don't need someone to tell you that you are committed to someone else ie you don't need a ceremony to commit to someone. You don't need witnesses. So to me when two people care about each other and decide that they only wish to be with each other, they make that commitment to each other. God is always watching imo, so guess what, he is witnessing your commitment. I know that how interpret the Bible isn't how many churches do...so yeah, that is why I don't attend or preach at any. I am who I am. | |
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| Any Virgins or those practicing Celibacy
Posted: 10/21/2009 4:52:59 PM | ^^^^^^^ See someone got It.
I agree with Ox the Irish exterminator!
Look at the Catholic Church The Pope Zeig-Heile! Not to give out contraceptives in Africa,
to stop the spread of Aides and Std's and told them they should Up for Celibacy.
Just like the 10000++ Catholic Priests that are in special retreats hidden by the Church for their crimes against Children, Bunch of Foquen child molesters. | |
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My Lovely arse is nice and tight and never been penetrated!
