| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:42:42 AM |
How will that happen?
Will they then be paying into it "illegally?
If they can't pay into it "legally", then they can't pay into it. And if they don't pay into it, they can't get care.
Uh, I think Geezelbee answered that for you......guess I was sleeping for the last 8 years.
THEY DO CURRENTLY GET IT.....GOT IT???? | |
|
| |
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:50:52 AM | Thank you for seeing the light in President Obama's lie!
Yes, illegals have access to health care currently.
So, unless there is something done to the current situation, they will have access to healthcare under the HCR.
So, it is my opinion, that the President is being disingenuous to make it appear that the illegal aliens would not have access to the proposed Healthcare. They will have the same access that they currently enjoy.....at our expense.
Oh yeah, nice fear mongering with the baby example......
No one wins under that scenario.
And no one is fear-mongering. If some people had their way, that baby would be refused service.
The baby now has 'health care' by way of the ER. Same as he had under Bushcare, and Clintoncare...
Talk about being disingenuous--are YOU going to send the baby away from the ER because he doesn't have an insurance card?
Two issues:
1. Health Care needs to be reformed so that American citizens have access to consistent care.
2. The situation with illegal immigrants receiving health care in the ER.
Some of us on the 'fix health care' side of things are focused on ensuring that American citizens have accessable , affordable health care on a consistant basis.
Then there are those on the 'yeah, but those illegals are getting ER treatment right now' side who are fixated on ensuring that no one without an insurange card gets health care.
Fear mongering... ...'Death Panels'... ...now THAT was fear mongering... | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/23/2009 7:44:11 PM |
So, unless there is something done to the current situation, they will have access to healthcare under the HCR. Care in the Emergency Room that is not COVERED by any insurance today does not qualify to be covered under the OBAMA HCR.
The OBAMA HCR is a health plan that will allow "legals" to get insurance. It will not cover those who enter any Emergency Room who do not have insurance ... not even a "legal". Since there are going to (no doubt) be "legals" who will refuse to get any kind of health insurance ... people still have to be treated. So there are all kinds of other government programs that reimburse the hospitals.
Some hospitals get government grants for the purpose ... some ahead of it ever happening and some get it when they present the proof that they treated "uninsured indigents". Those programs have been in place for many many years and would continue as such ... totally unrelated to the current OBAMA HCR health plan.
That's why "illegals" that are falling into that category today ... will still not be involved in the OBAMA HCR health plan. Those of us who work in the health care field already know that ... we deal with it daily. | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/24/2009 1:34:12 PM |
Let me prove to you that you are dishonest and incapable of handling a discussion seriously. You quoted me in the above paragraph, and then retorted saying that the issue was about lying. Except that you left out the words from your post that I was responding to. I will repost that part here so that everyone can see your cheap trick:
That's funny. Now I'm the dishonest one.
"Leaving my words out" is funny. Hey bud-----> I'm responding to your drivel. I quoted you. ANYONE can go back and see what I have written.
You have blinders on. I have been consistent in my stance on MY opinion about Obama lying. I have said that it is MY opinion that he is telling a half truth....at best.
I questioned your comprehension skills because, well, quite frankly, they are poor. Sometimes the truth hurts.
Get over it. President Obama told a half truth and you swallowed it. I didn't. | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/24/2009 1:41:15 PM |
Talk about being disingenuous--are YOU going to send the baby away from the ER because he doesn't have an insurance card?
Ahh, now that is a good question! And the answer is ---> absolutely not.
But we are not talking about what I believe are the "reforms" that are needed. We are discussing whether or not Obama lied.
I have been saying that he did. well, a half truth.....or disingenuous at best.
That is what I am against. I don't like being told half truths. It p*sses me off.
Tell the truth. | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/24/2009 2:43:22 PM | Tell the truth.
You wouldn't know the truth even if it hit you on the face. This applies to all the instances where you have used the word.
You are saying the president lied because he knows that the "illegal aliens" receive medical care and there is nothing that he can do to prevent them from accesing the health system "illegally" under the new law, if and when Congress sends him the bill that he asked them to present to him for his signature. That is an idiotic argument in the extreme. No rational person would even think of using that argument to accuse someone of lying based on that.
No law can prevent someone intending to violate it from doing so. Why do you think that the corporate interests violate the immigration laws by hiring "illegal aliens"? They know that there is a law against that. And the same people that they hire for sub-par wages are the people that end up going to the Emergency Room when they get sick or are injured at the work site.
When you start dealing seriously with the issue that you accuse the president of lying about, then I will pay attention to you again. Otherwise you can take your opinion and put it you know where.
One more thing, make arrangements for the bilingual (English and Spanish) reading comprehension tests. I will respond to you if you set it up. Make it worthwile for me! I need some cash. | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/25/2009 6:11:30 AM |
Actually, [warning: reading comprehension alert!!] what I have been saying is that President Obama lied because he told a half truth. Everybody here agrees that illegal aliens are currently receiving health care here in the good ol USA. I just want President Obama to admit that this will not change under Health Care Reform. simple.
Illegals have been receiving ER care since 1985, there is nothing in the Health Care reform bill that addresses health care for illegals there is nothing in the Health Care reform bill that gives illegals access to health care. The president did not lie, you can put a distortional spin on it anyway you want but the facts remain the facts and distortions remain distortions. | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/25/2009 10:03:11 AM | Actually, [warning: reading comprehension alert!!] what I have been saying is that President Obama lied because he told a half truth. Everybody here agrees that illegal aliens are currently receiving health care here in the good ol USA. I just want President Obama to admit that this will not change under Health Care Reform. simple.
So you are blaming the president for not knowing what is in your head, and for not anticipating your question? That's really moronic! I feel sorry for those that don't have a sense of proportions. Now you want the president to be an ALL KNOWING super human being that would know what is hidden inside the distorted brains of people who are so twisted that can't even deal with a simple fact. And in top of that they are really disingenuous.
Time and again has been explained to you that the president's statement referred to the Health Care Reform bill that he would like to see on his desk to sign it into law. The purpose of this reform is to offer affordable health insurance to the US citizens and the legal residents in the US. The law would provide federally subsidized health insurance to those who can't afford to pay the insurance companies' rates. The law would not apply to "illegal" aliens, meaning that they will not receive federally subsidized health insurance under this law. I will clarify this even further for you: it means that legally the "illegal" aliens will not be covered by this law.
Do you understand what all that means? Only imbecilic people would keep insisting that the president lied or told a half truth. Health Care Reform is not a law to replace all existing laws related to health care. It is a law to provide affordable Health Insurance Coverage to the citizens and legal residents in this country.
It has also been explained to you all that the president couldn't have lied by saying what he wanted the bill to contain. The only time that we will know if he lied is if he signs into law a bill that is contrary to what he said during his speech. Then you could have basis to say that he lied.
The issue of prevention, meaning that the president should know that people will break the laws, and since he is not saying that the law will make it impossible for people to "illegally" break the law, therefore the president lied, has also been explained in this discussion. There is no justification for using that argument to insult the president. Only a moron that doesn't understand that there are laws and that there are agencies whose responsibility is to see that the laws are respected, would keep on insisting that the president lied. There are laws against all type of crimes, from jaywalking or shoplifting to assault, rape and murder. Has any president been able to prevent those crimes from happening?
umm, ok. be in Texas tomorrow. It is a fairly bilingual state and it is where I'll be playing golf on vacation.....because unlike you, I already have the cash!
I'll be in San Antonio tomorrow. Specifically, I'll be having lunch in a restaurant on the boardwalk, across the river at mid-day. You dress like a clown and ride a bycicle blaring a horn so that I can recognize you. I'll flag you down and offer you a drink for having the courage to show up. Then we can go to the language lab at Trinity University and take the reading comprehension tests. First in English, straight bet, and then double or nothing in Spanish. How about that? Don't forget to bring some serious cash, since you say that you have plenty of it. After we are done, I will give you a dunce hat and a couple of ballons to complement your flashy attire, and send you in your merry way back to downtown.
Be there on time! | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/26/2009 2:01:15 PM | Ok...I'm not really on the side of this healthcare reform thing going on, not because I think it is good as it is now, but because I don't want our government anywhere near our healthcare. Look, they are talking about our healthcare, and yet they are just trying to cram this shit through so that they have a pat on their back for the next election. Yes, I do think it needs to be reformed and I do like the idea of affordable healthcare, but look at who is putting this thing together, we the people have no say whatsoever, yet all the special interest folks are there the whole damn time. I think it needs to be slowed down and done correctly and that means that it could take a few years to get done, but at least it could have a chance of being done right.
Another thing that I don't understand is this affordable shit, since when has anything been affordable when the government is using our money to pay for something. Look up how much it cost them to build, or rapair a portion of any road. The contractors charge ridiculious rates and the government pays because it is our money. How do you know the same shit ain't going to happen with healthcare. I'm willing to bet that the cost will go up, because now they (the insurance agencies and the government (if the public option goes) know it will be mandatory for folks to buy healthcare. That means they won't have to lower there cost, or keep them affordable, they charge us sky high prices. Look at the auto companies, look at how much they charge because it is mandatory. Look at the cost for the insurance options required by the government vs. the cost of option that are, well optional.
I think this country will really get a bad taste in its mouth once this shit goes through. | |
|
| |
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/29/2009 8:25:49 PM | I don't think the President lied. I just think he's way too smart to set himself up to be caught in a lie. He has no reason to lie to the nation. Not considering his integrity (he's not gonna lie), just remember, he's not the previous POTUS ... who really did lie to us on a regular basis.
OBAMA has everything to lose and nothing to gain by lying to us about something that important to the nation. | |
|
| |
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/29/2009 8:50:16 PM |
YES. President Obama lied. :~)
Good debating tactics, apparently former President Bush's own economic advisor disagrees with you, is he lying?
Former Bush Administration economist Keith Hennesey thinks that if this provision were to become law, it would be a violation of President Obama’s campaign pledge to not raise taxes on people who make less than $250,000. He explains that for middle-income people it would be cheaper to pay the tax than to buy an insurance plan, so some people with tight finance might opt, rationally, for the tax. Hennesey says that, according to the Congressional Budget Office, this conundrum would be faced by about 8 million people. It should be mentioned that the House health care bill with this tax provision is not a plan of Obama’s. It has been created ground-up by Congress. If he signs it into law, it becomes his. But until then, this doesn’t constitute a violation of the campaign pledge any more than any other bill in Congress that proposes a tax increase.
It appears that a former "Bush" economist "thinks" it would be a violation of President Obama's campaign pledge "if" it passes and is signed into law. He also points out that the House health care bill with this tax provision is not a plan of Obama’s. So to call the President a liar at this point is another distortion | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/30/2009 7:51:44 AM |
It appears that a former "Bush" economist "thinks" it would be a violation of President Obama's campaign pledge "if" it passes and is signed into law. He also points out that the House health care bill with this tax provision is not a plan of Obama’s. So to call the President a liar at this point is another distortion
Earl-
First......As I've previously stated, it is my opinion that The President was being disingenuous during his speech on 9/9/09. In my opinion, that is a lie.
Second.....you little quote box there has nothing to do with the topic. The OP asked if President Obama was lying in regards to illegal aliens receiving Health Care. He told a half truth at best.
Third.....Obviously, in regards to campaign promises (which is off topic, but you brought it up) President Obama would be lying if your little quote box scenario were to happen. Technically, Congress is creating the bill. But here is the quote from the text that the OP provided:
The plan I'm announcing tonight would meet three basic goals:
see? PLAN....I'M ANNOUNCING........ | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/30/2009 10:11:57 AM |
Second.....you little quote box there has nothing to do with the topic. The OP asked if President Obama was lying in regards to illegal aliens receiving Health Care. He told a half truth at best.
Here is the part of the text of the president's speech to congress that refers to "illegal aliens". (key words in bold print)
There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false -- the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.
Please address the issue taking into account those two sentences, and especially the meaning of those two words. I don't see any words in there that refers to "illegal aliens receiving Health Care." That is made up sh.t by those who stupidly continue to argue that the president lied about something that he didn't talk about. | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/30/2009 11:32:58 AM |
There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false -- the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.
This is clearly a subterfuge. Illegal immigrants use our health care system every day for free now. There is no reason that govt health care will stop this practice.
Furthermore, even if the health care bill was air tight and enforcement mechanisms were place (which they aren't), Obama plans a general amnesty to illegal immigrants.
He said it himself recently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91Tl671xASM
Did Obama lie? YES | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/30/2009 11:54:34 AM | I watched the video.
I did not hear the word 'amnesty' spoken by the president.
I did hear the president say that if people are here illegally, they will not be covered by the insurance plan.
I also heard him talking about the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform to resolve the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in the United States.
Nothing about amnesty.
Nada. | |
|
| |
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/30/2009 3:26:46 PM |
This is clearly a subterfuge. Illegal immigrants use our health care system every day for free now. There is no reason that govt health care will stop this practice.
Why is it so hard to understand that the reforms that the president is talking about are about Health Insurance for citizens and legal residents?
It is not meant to reform the laws regarding the attention and treatment that people are receiving in the emergency room because they don't have insurance.
The reform is about providing insurance to the great majority of the citizens and the people who are legally in the country, so that they don't have to go to the emergency room for care that can better provided in a clinic or a physician's private practice.
Bringing the issue of "illegal aliens" into the discussion to justify calling the president a liar is the real subterfuge here. | |
|
| |
| |
| |
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/30/2009 7:15:38 PM |
I know where Obama stands by listening to his own words captured for posterity on you tube. Where is the link?
I didn't hear the president that night. Don't know what he exactly and actully don't care. But, if he's a politican and his lips were moving then there is a high probability that he was lying. But to say that in here ... you need to provide a link ... we don't go on "I heard him say it." Where is the link that he actually did say it?
You 'know' where someone stands because you listen to him on youtube.
You 'know' because you listen to his words--he didn't use the word 'amnesty', but you 'know' that's what he means, cuz it was on youtube. Sounds a lot like Lush Phlembaugh ... trying to save his azz on that other issue .. eh?
OT ...
Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress? No ... he did not. OBAMA is not a liar. | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/30/2009 7:56:53 PM |
I also heard him talking about the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform to resolve the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in the United States.
Nothing about amnesty.
-----
That is the funniest thing I've heard all week!
I had to wipe my screen off myself after reading that. | |
|
Home
login 
