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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:53:35 PM |
since they are so great they can get themselves to and from dates, pay their own way and open doors for themselves
Don't most of them do this anyway?
I know I do...I don't think it's a man's job to do any of that. I'm not 5. I appreciate human gestures of politeness, but don't think anyone male or female should do any of those things for me. Expectation from either gender is just...gross.
P.S. Independent women (aside from those who constantly announce it) doesn't necessarily equal "great" unless that's the way you're taking it. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 4:39:33 AM | "Need" - Implies "Required to Survive"
Personally I would LOVE a man who "Wants" me - as much as I "Want" him.
I am absolutely Not interested in a Man who Needs me to survive - That would be a "Parent/Child" relationship - I'm looking for a Man who can and does take care of himself. A "Partner" if you will.
A "Relationship" requires / Needs 2 people. An (adult) Individual does not.
Needs: Air, Food, Water (and in Most hemispheres) - Shelter.
Yes we tend to be 'healthier' mentally and emotionally when we have people in our lives, however 'Most' able bodied adults will Not die if left alone for a period of time.
There is a difference between Wanting and Needing someone. Generally 'couples' do Not "need" each other Until they have been partnered for a period of time, and even then it is Not always the case. I know several very Happy Couples who Love each other deeply and who Want each other in their lives .. but they are separated for various reasons, jobs etc for sometimes Long periods.
I'm over 50, been single for quite awhile. I am Vibrant, Happy, Active and for the mostpart content. If I "needed" a man to survive - I'd have been dead years ago! lol .. I DO Like and even Love Most men and I would absolutely Love to have a Man in my life, a Partner ... someone who is my 'soft place to fall' and someone who I am that to as well ..
People who believe they NEED to be in a relationship often find themselves in situations of abuse, control and misery. They are often the ones that (some) people look down on and judge as being "stupid" for staying in a Bad relationship. They are most often the same ones who post threads whining about the Opposite Sex and blaming 'them' for their own inability to find a date.
IMO - If people were brought up Knowing that they are quite OK whether they are coupled or not - there just Might be more Happy Couples out there.
JMHO!
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:06:03 AM |
I wonder why so many women feel the need to scream and shout their perceived "independence" at the same time that they are on a dating site seeking men. They WANT a man to compliment THIER life.
"Complement," not "compliment"--often confused homophones. And an an easy way to remember how to spell "their" is that it has a "the" in it.
I don't "shout" about my independence because I don't have to--it is evident in the way I live my life. People have to advertise that they are independent or any other apsect of their lives or personality traits often lack those traits. It should be a matter of showing, not telling.
However, being on a dating site doesn't necessarily mean that I am here to find a husband, a long-term relationship,or someone with whom I seek to make a life. I like the company of men; I like sex, but to say that I NEED a man is a misnomer and is a misnomer for other women. I WANT men in my life, I don't need a man. I am here to find a date.
Im just getting fed-up with all these feminism nonsense creeping into every caveat of our lives.
I am not sure what "caveat" means in this context since it is defined as a legal term or a word of warning. If you don't like that other women don't need men, how does that affect you or why should it bother you? You are free to accept or reject feminist "nonsense," but having reached the ripe old age of 57, I have seen one too many women and men (I said this before) feel the screaming NEED to have a member of the opposite sex in their lives that they put themselves in very bad situations over and over.
Why can't we just accept the fact that the different genders NEED each other one way or the other?
Be careful to differentiate between "fact" and "opinion" and also, fact from your personal truths. Most of us need human companionship; children who do not receive love from other humans grow up warped and stunted. Some people are total loners whose "need" for other humans is slight or nonexistent. We need members of the opposite sex to procreate, but gays can adopt and women can be artificially inseminated.
Someday, I could very well change my mind about having a long-term partner, but when and if that happens, I want him to say, "I WANT you," and I want to respond, "I want you."
Then, it is decision based on many aspects of who we are--and a desire to overcome any obstacles because we WANT to do so, not a partnership driven by need, which often blinds us to be clinging, have blind spots about aspects of the other person and, well, makes us needy.
Happiness comes from within: if we NEED something or someone to make us happy, we have missed the mark.
But again, if one has to advertise their lack of NEED, that person is probably needy. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:11:52 AM |
(Gwendolyn2009) However, being on a dating site doesn't necessarily mean that I am here to find a husband, a long-term relationship,or someone with whom I seek to make a life. I like the company of men; I like sex, but to say that I NEED a man is a misnomer and is a misnomer for other women. I WANT men in my life, I don't need a man. I am here to find a date.
I'm just curious, as many men are, I suspect, why so many women INSIST on differentiating between "need" and "want", instead of taking the eminently more logical course of action, and not going on and on and ON about a poor choice of words...
Binroe  | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:13:17 AM |
How does one build a LONG TERM RELATIONSHIP with someone who doesn't need you anyway?
I have a couple of friends who are diabetic and NEED insulin. If they don't get it, they could die. If you NEED something, it places a whole different spin on the situation.
Again, I have seen women who NEED a man in their lives. Some feel desperately unhappy because their "need" goes unfulfilled; others have gone through several men and then "disposed" of them. I have had friends, both men and women, who suffered to the point of near suicide when a partner left them because they NEEDED that person.
Needs die, so does want . . . and there are loads of long-term relationships between people who who do not need each other except for the perception in their heads, or they stay out of different types of fears.
Been there, done that. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:40:44 AM | I still say, IN THIS CONTEXT(profiles on a personal ads website) women who say they are "independent" "don't need a man" are simply trying to allay what seems to be men on personal ad sites BIGGEST fear...that he is somehow or other gonna "get used" for his money, or his handyman/mechanic skills, his ability to kill spiders and snakes,etc.
Are there women lookng to do this? of course there are. There are also men who are just looking for a couple of dates and a piece of tail. But were I to see the comment in a guy's profile that he didn't "need" a woman, I'd take it that he was just trying to let interested ladies know that he was comfortable with his own personal abilities to provide himself with meals, manage housekeeping,and isn't looking on a dating site to line up a caregiver.
Red Flags? Does anybody REALLY want to do annything more than date and boink? Seems like everybody is so busy watching out for "red flags"...so busy sidestepping the "screwing over' they think they see coming in one direction, that they screw THEMSELVES over.
Here's a thought...the next time you look at a profile and the lady states she's independent...why don't you email her and ASK her to elaborate. Your scared ass might be running away from a fine,honest,self reliant lady.
Or is it the "self reliant" part that SCARES you? Is it easier to get and keep a relationship with a woman who needs rescuing and looking after? Maybe you need to check and see for sure that the red flag ain't run up on YOUR flagpole.
Cindy O | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:46:42 AM | (ladyc4) I still say, IN THIS CONTEXT(profiles on a personal ads website) women who say they are "independent" "don't need a man" are simply trying to allay what seems to be men on personal ad sites BIGGEST fear...
And, as many men have informed women, their stated intentions are NOT what they're accomplishing, ie they wanna assure men they're not after their money, but they're only succeeding in annoying men, and putting them off.
Women's response? "Oh, no, you're taking it all wrong! You should understand it EXACTLY and ONLY as we mean it!"
See, "in this context", the INTENTIONS are not leading to the desired outcome. A PERCEPTIVE and SHREWD person will realize this, and adjust accordingly, rather than continuing to fight for a lost cause...
Binroe
"Raising Cain since 2004!" | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:55:02 AM | | Independence, like one's sex drive and wallet size, should never need be stated. If someone points to the fact they are independent, be it digitally here or across the first date table, it's a turn off and a borderline lie. A classy, independent woman (I suppose man as well) should never need to point this out. I should be able to determine it myself. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:01:28 AM |
See, "in this context", the INTENTIONS are not leading to the desired outcome. A PERCEPTIVE and SHREWD person will realize this, and adjust accordingly, rather than continuing to fight for a lost cause...
Actually, the word "independent" doesn't appear in my profile. Because I happen to think being able to look out for one's own sorry ass is a GIVEN.
Like I said, make sure you know whose flagpole that red flag is flying from...
Cindy O | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:08:05 AM | I don't imagine there are a great many profiles out there that say "I need a man" (at least I've never seen one). I think we'd likely all agree that this would be a red flag. Wouldn't it follow that the opposite extreme would likely be a red flag as well?
I suspect there is something underlying the need to put on one's profile "I don't need a Man" or "I'm independent".
For some, certainly not all, it is a declaration that they have: Been there, done that. And don't intend to go there again.
OK, that is certainly laudable. Have they done the growth and self realization necessary to not repeat their stuff? Have the lessons learned been integrated? Or is this going to be 'worked on' with the next person they date. And do *I* want to be the person that they work their stuff out on?
In other words, is this banner on their profile a declaration, a proclamation of the beginning stages of a larger work in progress?
^^ if so, it certainly could be a red flag or possibly a yellow flag indicating a psychosocial barrier (if I understand my flags).
The fact that we can never talk about healthy human need of acceptance and understanding without it being interpreted by some as "needy desperation" suggests to me that there are a number of people who do not regard human needs in a balanced way. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:14:07 AM |
I'm just curious, as many men are, I suspect, why so many women INSIST on differentiating between "need" and "want", instead of taking the eminently more logical course of action, and not going on and on and ON about a poor choice of words...
And why are you still on this forum posting about the subject? Methinks that you go on and on about semantics, as well.
Words have power: the old rhyme "sticks and stone can break my bones but words will never hurt me" is grossly inaccurate. If words didn't have such power, the OP wouldn't have started this forum, you wouldn't have posted, and I wouldn't have posted.
I am curious as to why SOME men cannot simply accept that SOME women have emotional and financial well-being and don't "need" men but still want a man in their lives. If the OP, and others, were not so offended by the use of certain words, this forum wouldn't exist.
As a teacher, I suppose that I also fall prey to the idea that if I explain it succinctly enough, people will understand, but chosen ignorance or the inability to understand are both bad situations.
I accept that SOME men, usually those with low self esteem and/or with a savior complex, NEED women to NEED them, but many men do not NEED women either--they WANT women. I have had dates with some of those needy men and ran screaming (that's hyperbole) from dinner because the guys wanted exclusivity on the first date or started planning our future together.
And, as many men have informed women, their stated intentions are NOT what they're accomplishing, ie they wanna assure men they're not after their money, but they're only succeeding in annoying men, and putting them off.
I might come into a forum and try to explain, but I wouldn't flout my independence on my profile because, as I said, it should be self evident. Neither do I speak about myself directly or outline the type of men whom I like to date--it is pointless because words can convey quite different meanings than the physical reality.
Women's response? "Oh, no, you're taking it all wrong! You should understand it EXACTLY and ONLY as we mean it!"
Why can't you accept my position and the position of other women? Why do you lump all women in together? I certainly don't lump all men in the same pile--that would not be silly, but self defeating.
See, "in this context", the INTENTIONS are not leading to the desired outcome. A PERCEPTIVE and SHREWD person will realize this, and adjust accordingly, rather than continuing to fight for a lost cause...
I am sorry, what cause is that? I don't have a problem attracting men in real life or online, so I didn't realize that my cause was lost. I mean, if I am on a dating site to meet men and I am meeting them, my "cause" is being met. I won't use the word "won" because it isn't a competition--not between you and me, not between me and other women, and not between me and men at large.
I suppose I should get my shawl, put the cats on my lap, then sit in my rocker and wait for the eventual end because I am a lost cause.
Snort. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:16:58 AM | Agree with "most" of what you say Margo .. but ..
healthy human need of acceptance and understanding
is Not the same as "needing a Man" ( nor is it the same as a man who 'needs' a woman)
Of course as human beings we tend to be healthier (emotionally) when we have that sense of community - belonging/acceptance .. and for some the 'need' is greater.
Still isn't the same as "Needing" an individual (of either gender) .. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:37:38 AM | So, we have the faction who believes that if a woman is independent, she doesn't need to say it, it should be obvious. How can that be obvious in a profile? I agree, if it's stated in a profile, it's up to the person reading to ask exactly what that statement means. You know, like a dialogue/communication...that thing that so many people fail at so hugely and wonder why their relationships fail.
So, the woman shouldn't say she's independent, if she is. Then you find out after getting to know her that she is. What's your reaction going to be? What if you don't like a woman who is independent and enjoys being self-sufficient financially or likes that you have outside interests whereby she doesn't question your every move when you're out of her sight. Scum of the earth, right?...kick her to the curb, right?...because she doesn't need you but wants you.
Conversely, you are definitely going to have very many women (because it's been stated so here in these very forums) that need a man. Let's switch the title thread for a moment to "I Need a Man...I am very Dependent". This person also doesn't need to state it in a profile, it should be obvious...right? Hardly. But these are the very women that men tend to complain about very vocally (again in these very same forums) who need a man because they've developed the prima dona attitude and lifestyle whereby they go from relationship to relationship using men for perks rather than personality.
Personally, if I were a man, I'd sooner want the woman who is confident enough and self-reliant enough to want a man in her life and not need one and be able to express it (and no, not in every paragraph of their profile like a feminazi). Chances are, you'll never get the needy, dependent women to ever come close to stating they are needy and dependent in a profile because they either don't realize they are the prima dona princesses or they do realize it and prefer to fly under the radar while they do that "suck you dry emotionally and financially" thingy they do until you wise up and then come back to the forums to post that every woman on earth is out for your money or are so clingy you can't take a leak without them having to know about it.
In other words, I agree with Cindy:
I still say, IN THIS CONTEXT(profiles on a personal ads website) women who say they are "independent" "don't need a man" are simply trying to allay what seems to be men on personal ad sites BIGGEST fear...that he is somehow or other gonna "get used" for his money, or his handyman/mechanic skills, his ability to kill spiders and snakes,etc. ....although I do know of at least one person who doesn't want their spiders killed...not naming any names but the intials are b.a.k.e.d.s.u.s.h.i. (whom I also happen to agree with). | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:43:22 AM | Gwendolyn
"Complement," not "compliment"--often confused homophones. And an an easy way to remember how to spell "their" is that it has a "the" in it. Funny enough, in the process of correcting Makeba's post (instead of just responding) YOU MADE A MISTAKE!!. Ooops!! I guess you (as a teacher) are NOT perfect as you would like us to believe. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:45:32 AM |
Agree with "most" of what you say Margo .. but .. healthy human need of acceptance and understanding is Not the same as "needing a Man" ( nor is it the same as a man who 'needs' a woman) Of course as human beings we tend to be healthier (emotionally) when we have that sense of community - belonging/acceptance .. and for some the 'need' is greater. Still isn't the same as "Needing" an individual (of either gender) ..
I think the balanced, healthy human has, among other things, a core need to be understood and accepted... and this is one of our core inner drives as a human. It is on a continuum, with a fairly wide range and with healthy norms for both extraverts and introverts, but I think the extremes at either end are not balanced and are unhealthy.
People have pointed out that hermits can exist just fine, and indeed they can, but would we hold them up as an example of a heathy human model of living? Don't think so. Would we hold them up as a relationship model? Certainly not, lol.
I believe the principal and most fulfilling way of getting our core human need of Acceptance and Understanding met is within a loving relationship. << That type of relationship can only be formed with another individual.
It's not the only way, and people are not doomed to a miserable existence if they are not in a relationship, but they do compensate for it when they do not have that significant relationship. They do pick up additional social activities and spend extra time with friends and family in order to meet that need.
Likewise, that need isn't met with a relationship with any old man found laying around.
I wonder how many people who "do not need a Man" have ended relationships because the fellow wasn't "Meeting their Needs"?
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:48:46 AM | Back in my day, (i.e., when dinosaurs ruled the earth and cavemen wore feathered bangs), whenever someone adversely judged a particular group of STRANGERS for a supposed characteristic, trait, or behavior, it meant those doing the judging were prejudice. IMO, to prematurely deem another human being that you have never met, communicated with, or otherwise gotten to know, as UNSAVORY is a far more off-putting than a couple of hackneyed profile clichés. So, don’t let a stupid profile maxim, platitude, motto or catch-phrase be the judge, jury and conviction of a stranger. Take a chance, go out with them, talk to them, get to KNOW them, and THEN you can justifiably and truly dub them King Asshat of Cracklicker Creek. 
Oh, and be careful out there. The Face Palm always yields bad dates. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:45:44 AM | | ^^^^^It can very well be the contrary...that she does get laid because she doesn't place sex in a "need" catagory or have to have love to have sex category, but sees it as a "want", and doesn't believe in "control" in the slightest....my my how the threads to seem to overlap. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 11:45:08 AM | a core need to be understood and accepted...
Well, then everybody needs somebody for these emotional needs. But I still say, when it comes to "Adventures in Modern Dating for the over 40 crowd" many women feel a need to make it plain that she is NOT looking for someone to come in and fix her life.The men who fall into this category seem to be those who THINK they have a lot to lose. Then there are the brokeass unemployable losers who think women need a pet penis in their lives...
So yeah, maybe it IS a defense...keeping away the scared stingies and the losers looking to ride on some "lonely woman's" dime.
Look, I'm sure that women who make this statement think they have good reason for doing so. So if you haven't got the balls to send an email and ASK what she means, just keep looking. There are lots of women who DO need men to fix their lives. Go find one.
When you are back here with an empty wallet and a weiner that's been through a famine, we'll try hard to have the grace to NOT say "I told you so."
Now, I seriously doubt my 2 cents is either understood or accepted. Guess what? In some context and constructs, understanding and acceptance are over rated.
Look, I'll not argue that there can be phrases or words in a profile that can be a complete turn off.
Ignorance, racism, bashing the other gender, blatant sexual comments, denouncement of any group of people( like single mothers, older men, people with disabilities) are all grounds to click thru to the next profile, IMO. But a point of information, or a reference with a wide range of possible meaning and intent?
Ah, but that's right, I forgot that we live in Red Flag City.
Anybody ever stop to think that a couple of frequent "insults"(red flags) here are "no wonder you are single" or "your on a dating site there must be a lot wrong with you." yeah yeah, pot, meet kettle...but it does come up quite often!
Cindy O | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 12:13:11 PM | I have read with great interest some of the posts on here.............with many varied opinions and experiences as well.
In MY own experience, I HAD to be independent. It was a necessity, NOT an option. Growing up in a home where my father traveled heavily for work - he was a crop adjuster and during the summers he was on the road living out of a hotel for weeks at a time. - yes he was home on the weekends, etc. but I couldn't just go running to daddy everytime I needed my car fixed etc. - these were things I had to figure out myself.
In spite of growing up in the "traditional 1950's" way of life with his father working and his mother staying at home, my father IS a pretty progressive man when it comes to women and independence. My parents married very very young. - In fact, my mother quit college to be with my father. - My father always maintained my mother would finish her degree and finish she did. - took her about 14 years to do it via attending night classes and working full time and being a full time mom, but she did it and my hat is off to her. My father also said that any children they had would go to college and have an education. That happened as well.
My father was one who said to my mother that if she didn't want to work outside the home it was fine - his income was enough to support the family, but mom went to work anyway so we could enjoy some of the extras that we did have. My father was also practical. Knowing how my mother grew up - her father died before she even saw her first birthday, and my grandmother had to raise three children on her own, he had the thought that if tomorrow didn't come for him, he wanted my mother and I to have the skills and resources to survive on our own. He wanted us to be educated and capable of making it. He wanted us to be able to obtain credit and arrange for finances on our own merit. He always told me he would be there for us as long as he was around, but he wanted us to be able to stand on our own two feet should something happen to him. Luckily, he is still here, but the premise is still the same.
When my ex left yes, I had a job. Thank goodness. - Financially, it was pretty much seamless for me when he left, as, yes, I did make more than my ex, but I didn't have so many bills I couldn't manage. Thankfully, I have the skills, resources, education, and know how to make it on my own. I hadn't been out of the workforce for a long period of time trying to struggle and figure out how I was going to make it.
I have a good friend of mine who is my age, been married now for 12 years, has 3 small children and is now going through a nasty divorce. She has also been out of the workforce for that long and is now trying to figure out where she is going to live, and what in the world she is going to do for work. So basically at age 40, right now, her life is in a free fall as she is now starting over with 3 to take care of, and her soon to be ex doesn't seem to want to help in caring for the kids. - as in paying child support, etc.
I guess independence is not a bad thing. I have seen many many women out here staying in bad/abusive marriages for the sake of finances. - they are either not working and only have access to money through their husbands, or they are working in lower paying jobs and worry if they leave will they be able to make it. Luckily for me, my standard of living did not go down when my ex left. - In fact, it went up somewhat as I was no longer bailing him out because his checkbook was constantly overdrawn.
In all practicality, we all should be able to make it on our own. Whether you are a man or woman. - You never know what life will dish out. My grandmother is proof of that having to raise three kids all under the age of 10 in the 1950s where opportunities for women were very very few. I have to admire her grit and will of iron in keeping her family together and intact. - with NO governmental handouts/giveaways as we know it today. It goes to show that there are NO guarantees in life and that we all must be prepared with a modicum of practicality. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 12:46:57 PM |
i thought the saying was "those who can, do..those who can't, teach" but there ya go.
Wrong again, it's "those who can, do..those who can't, preach" 
But I'd call it a red flag... I'm independent, but I don't go advertising it...you'll know as soon as you meet me... be very very wary ;) | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 11/7/2009 1:19:52 PM |
(BtH) Women's response? "Oh, no, you're taking it all wrong! You should understand it EXACTLY and ONLY as we mean it!"
(Gwendolyn2009) Why can't you accept my position and the position of other women? Why do you lump all women in together? I certainly don't lump all men in the same pile--that would not be silly, but self defeating.
Ya got me: the one time I don't put "overwhelming majority", you assume I'm talking about ALL women. Teach me to assume that a stickler for details would EVER cut some slack to the other person...
I am sorry, what cause is that?
Why, the cause of niggling over "need/want", of course! Do try to keep up... 
And why are you still on this forum posting about the subject? Methinks that you go on and on about semantics, as well.
Naw, I just like mixing it up now and again. Amazing how easy it is to do...
Binroe | |
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Right On CindyO!! :)
