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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 7:25:41 AM | both are still negative sentiments I disagree. "I'm not into drugs"; "I don't need to drink booze"; "I don't need your money to make my way"; "I don't need your company 24/7" - are these also 'negative statements'? I don't care if you don't think they're negative. I think they are. I don't need you to agree with me. I can make up my own mind. I don't need give a rat's a**. what you think. It's obnoxious.
I don't want, don't need, don't desire any woman who I think is an obnoxious pain in the a** making banal disclaimers before I've even spoken to her.
You know, you're right...
I'm feeling pretty positive having said all that.
Wanna go for a coffee sometime?... | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 7:32:23 AM |
"I do NOT need a man"
I believe it's actually 'I do not NEED a man'. Again, a nuance can mean a great difference.
The point which you seem oddly reluctant to acknowledge is, however nuanced, both are still negative sentiments.
Besides that, it seems to be rather hopeful to expect someone to place the same nuance on it, especially if we need to resort to all caps to make the point.
I agree with Margo, its all semantics, no matter how much you try to repackage it, it means the same thing....
"I do NOT need a man"
I believe it's actually 'I do not NEED a man'. Again, a nuance can mean a great difference. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 7:44:38 AM | It is not humanly possible to mitigate for everybody else's interpretation. Rather, it is incumbent upon the interpreter to determine whether the interpretation is correct.
I don't see it like that.
You are correct that it's not likely possible to take into consideration every single person's interpretation of a message, but I believe that it's incumbent on the one sending the message to make sure the message it clear.
If I'm not mistaken, that's one of the first tenets of good communication.
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 7:46:21 AM | | Yes I also see such statement as a red flag, they are contraditory statements. To me someone saying they dont need a man they are independant says they arent ready for a relationship for they are still trying to convince themselves and the world that they can do it on thier own. I know women today are capable of financial independance, men and women have an inherent need not to live a life in solatude but to share time for enjoyment and live a happy life which in many relationships means men and women living together. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 7:58:23 AM | I like women who are independent in the sense that they don't have those 1930's expectations where I would have to earn all the money(either because because she doesn't have her own job/goals or she has no sense of bounderies towards another persons earnings); make all the efforts of approaching, courting, communicating, dating and romancing; or solve all of her problems and make all the hard decisions for her. I can definitely appreciate and respect a woman that isn't dependent of her parents, lives within her own means and can take care of her own affairs. However, it does raise a red flag for me when a woman goes out of their way to state that she is independent as it tends to express a sense of emotionally unavailability. If I am going to be in a relationship with a woman, I need a certain level of effort and commitment from her as well, I don't really like to feel like I'm just some easily expendable piece of meat that's only there for her needs while she has no regards for my own. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 8:06:58 AM | There's probably something you need a man for, or are at least looking for or you wouldn't be looking. Empathsizing the positive generally creates more positive results. "I don't need a man", no matter how it is voiced, is negative.
"I can rake the yard by myself, but it is much more fun to have someone else involved"
oh, and capitano, I agree (it's kind of scary how often I agree with you)- a woman living off child support and public assistance is not independent.
edit to add:
I disagree. "I'm not into drugs"; "I don't need to drink booze"; "I don't need your money to make my way"; "I don't need your company 24/7" - are these also 'negative statements'
yes. At least the last two are. In the first two, "I" is the primary subject (Division's self affirming distinction). In the last two "your" is the primary subject...
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 8:31:04 AM | Personally, I love independent women. So if I do see the statement;
"I don't need a man"
here, on this dating website, then logic dictates that they perhaps really don't NEED a man but the fact that they're even here obviously means that they WANT one.
There is a subtle difference here... But it's an important one.
So no... I don't think women who put this on their profiles automatically means that the red flags should go up. And besides... I think it's kinda sexy when women are self assured and KNOW what they want. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 9:20:23 AM |
"I'm not into drugs"; "I don't need to drink booze"; "I don't need your money to make my way"; "I don't need your company 24/7" - are these also 'negative statements' Yes they are still negative statements if they at uttered at a time that you are 1. seeking drugs in a "crackhouse", 2. seeking drinks in say a pub/bar, 3. asking to borrow money from someone or suing for alimony/spousal support and lastly 4. requesting for an around-the-clock support/service from a the said company. So whiles it may not be negative to state that you DON'T NEED a man at some feminazi rallys or meetings, it is NEGATIVE to state so on a heterosexual dating site. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 11:13:37 AM | | I may not need a man, but I wanted one so I went out and found one. I would rather someone wanted me then needed me anyway. Who wants some needy leech who can't live on his own or have his own life without you there. My gosh how exhausting would that type of person be. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 11:37:59 AM | OP- I don't need a man to open my nail polish, but I definatly need one to do the heavy lifting.
I think the phrase 'I don't need a man' has been turnded into that RED FLAG you mentioned due to all of the jaded/ bitter women who use it to punish men for all past failed relationships. The phase simply means that a woman can sustain herself and family if a man is not available to help out or should her signifigant other get hurt.
Has anyone ever wondered why there are so many anti- depressant commercials nowadays? I think more and more we tend to nor realize that we all need to touch and be touched by someone who 'gets us'. We need a soft place to fall when the whole world is against us, but we've evolved into thinking that everyone is out to get us and that we can be sad all by ourselves (bullocks)! I work my ass off; yes. When a man ask me why I work so hard, I don't say it's because I don't need a man. I simply say that I don't 'have' a man to help me. In the end whether it's a long/short term realtionship/friendship/dating I have someone there to help when I need it. It could be anything from moving a couch, holding hands and walking the park etc.
The simple fact is that women/men need each other. I work hard and have a license to carry, but a pistol does not fit into a clutch bag or dress. Men need women to pamper them and women need men to protect them. These are natural instincts and we can try all we want to ignore them but we cannot change nature. We both have something the other needs and both are equally powerful. Ladies why do you think grown men request a favorite meal from their mothers and will go to the end of the earth for it? In turn they will protect her to no end just over something a simple as a casserole. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 12:05:31 PM |
"It is not humanly possible to mitigate for everybody else's interpretation. Rather, it is incumbent upon the interpreter to determine whether the interpretation is correct." I don't see it like that. You are correct that it's not likely possible to take into consideration every single person's interpretation of a message, but I believe that it's incumbent on the one sending the message to make sure the message it clear. If I'm not mistaken, that's one of the first tenets of good communication. Haven’t seen a communication model yet where the bulk of the responsibility isn’t on the sender of the message. Oh sure, the receiver is responsible for feedback, or questions to clarify the meaning, but in this environment, feedback could mean clicking on the next profile. A lack of response IS feedback to your message.
It is the sender's responsibility to ensure that their message will be understood by the receiver, taking into account their cultural and life experiences. That means women need to consider what type of man they are looking for and "speak into their listening". Their listening means the nuance they are likely to attach to it, not the one you know you mean. But don't take my word for it, check out any communication model. I've posted the first one to come up on google search:
The responsibility of the sender to choose a code that will best carry the message is obvious. When encoding one’s idea, one has to pick the code that will fit the message and that will allow the receiver to understand. So, the sender encodes the message.
Problem: The sender is not centered on the receiver. He or she does not think of the level of understanding of the receiver, of the vocabulary of the receiver, of the cultural experiences of the receiver. Solution: The sender has to tailor his or her message to the intended receiver.
http://www.cob.unt.edu/mgmt/pitre/mgmt3330/Communication%20Process%20Model.pdf | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 12:54:51 PM | Kinky**stard, FarmExe, and Annie I Oakley all 'got it' without requiring extensive explanations.
So you can argue until next century that people must alter their messages in a way such that nobody's baggage can possibly affect their interpretation (not possible) but it's easier just to look for people who will either have the good grace to enquire about your meaning or, better yet, will just 'get you' because they think the same way.
We're not all clones, and thank God for that. I'm not into groupthink and, clearly, not everyone on this thread agrees that 'independent' is a red flag. So argue, if you will, that it is, but you only share that opinion with some people. Others think as I do. C'est la vie. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 1:28:01 PM | Independence: A virtue belonging to the independent.
Nit-picking: A virtue belonging to the nit-picker.
A person can be independent and STILL appreciate having others share their thoughts/opinions.
Same as paying/receiving child support (NOT alimony) for your children - it has NOTHING to do with independence. Someone mentioned earlier that depending on a CS cheque makes one dependant? That's BS. Child support (again, NOT alimony) is money DUE to the children, period.
Anyway, I stand by my earlier post - if one doesn't like what's on a profile, they are MORE THAN welcome to click on the next profile. Simple really.

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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 2:05:22 PM |
Because you can't claim to be INDEPENDENT, if you are DEPENDENT on a source of income. I should have thought that would be obvious. Well, wouldn't that pretty much mean that about 98% of us are dependent...on a paycheck, a pension(based on one's working years income) on that secret grove of money trees not getting borers, blight,or uprooted by a tornado? I guess that means almost no one of either gender is "independent".
My opinion of the "independent" statement, is that it is made to dispel the commonly encountered male suspicion that women are only interested in relationships for financial support/lifestyle upgrade. I seriously doubt that a woman who TRULY had no interest in dating and relationships would be participating in dating sites,or doing anything else to meet potential dating and relationship prospects. Cindy O | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 2:12:14 PM |
Same as paying/receiving child support (NOT alimony) for your children - it has NOTHING to do with independence. Someone mentioned earlier that depending on a CS cheque makes one dependent? That's BS. Child support (again, NOT alimony) is money DUE to the children, period.
This is bulls-eye truth. Just about everything else misses the mark. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 2:28:16 PM |
(ladyc4) Well, wouldn't that pretty much mean that about 98% of us are dependent...on a paycheck, a pension(based on one's working years income) on that secret grove of money trees not getting borers, blight,or uprooted by a tornado? I guess that means almost no one of either gender is "independent".
Exactly right. Going by the strict definition, NOBODY is completely independent.
Bragging of one's "independence" smacks to me of a two-year old in toilet-training saying, "See? I can go on the BIG BOY potty now!"
From what I see here, many women are arguing that they are "independent", when what they mean is, "a basically functional human being". I'm not looking for some ridiculously obscure notion of what "independence" is -- I'm looking for someone who's not a nit-picker, and who won't try to convince me that something that IS offensive (the combatitive "I don't NEED a man!" declaration), ISN"T offensive. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I know what the brown stuff is, and all the fancy, high-falutin' word-iage ain't gonna convince me otherwise!
Bimbly | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 2:33:12 PM |
(another brick in the wall) Same as paying/receiving child support (NOT alimony) for your children - it has NOTHING to do with independence. Someone mentioned earlier that depending on a CS cheque makes one dependant? That's BS. Child support (again, NOT alimony) is money DUE to the children, period.
That was me. Guilty as charged. This, after all, is a thread about the offensiveness of the "I don't NEED a man!" statement, not about Child Support.
Anyway, I stand by my earlier post - if one doesn't like what's on a profile, they are MORE THAN welcome to click on the next profile. Simple really.
Sure. I completely agree. It talks to a fundamental incompatibility. Thing is, most men will tell women that they see the "NEED/WANT" thing as obnoxious, at best, and some women will try to tell us that it's NOT obnoxious.
Let's try this: I don't NEED sex all the time, but I WANT sex all the time. Still indifferent about it?
Bimbly | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 2:35:58 PM |
I guess that means almost no one of either gender is "independent". That's how I see it. I don't know anyone who doesn't need someone else in their life. (pfft, someone like me has an entire network of people standing with me, lol.)
Most of us are a few paycheques away from near disaster in our lives. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 3:43:37 PM | That was me. Guilty as charged. This, after all, is a thread about the offensiveness of the "I don't NEED a man!" statement, not about Child Support.
Right. And I only brought it up because YOU brought it up (I should have thought that would be obvious;).
Thing is, most men will tell women that they see the "NEED/WANT" thing as obnoxious, at best, and some women will try to tell us that it's NOT obnoxious.
I haven't seen many women try to TELL men how they should think or feel, least of all this woman - I hate (hate hate hate) having people tell me how I should feel or think. You, as well as I and everyone else on this board, are entitled to our feelings - what you or I or anyone are NOT entitled to do (in MY opinion) is belittle those who don't feel the way we do and try to IMPOSE our way of thinking on others - if YOU or anyone is offended by a word or anything else you see on a profile, what I AM telling you (and others) is to SKIP THAT PROFILE.
There are many many many words that I see on profiles that are an immediate turn-off *to me*....do I start threads belittling people for those words and try to convince them that they are WRONG for something that is on THEIR profiles?
The way I see it, I am thankful that there are still people capable of INDEPENDENT thoughts who don't fall for this cookie cutter one size fits all insanity which better allows me to decide for MYSELF if that person might be a good match for me by revealing their true self instead of some fake or generic persona created to please the masses or worse "not to offend" ....in other words, TO EACH THEIR OWN....is that so hard????
Sorry for the caps (I did remove half of them) but um...these type of threads always get to me and I guess I'm not independent enough (or too stupid) to leave well enough alone:)

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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 4:10:50 PM |
Bragging of one's "independence" smacks to me of a two-year old in toilet-training saying, "See? I can go on the BIG BOY potty now!"
I have to admit...I agree. Not just in the "independence" statement though....frankly, I chalk it up to an online dating thing, key-phrases that are repetitively used on profiles to 'market' oneself. It's not just the 'independent' description though, and it's by no means gender-specific (think of all the male profiles who include "I am a nice guy" in them, as one example).
It could be one of two things. One, that, being a dating website, perhaps the women using this phrase, have received numerous emails already from men complaining about women trying to "use them" for money, so they want to set themselves apart from said women? (And again, not gender-specific...I'm sure all the self-proclaimed "nice guys" out there are possibly describing themselves as such, because the women they email are complaining about 'the last a$$hole'?)
Or, two...it could just be, that humans are unoriginal creatures, by and large.
To me, back when I was using this site to try to find dates, it was kind of funny, IMO...while I realize that yes, one's profile is the first thing other prospective dates will read or see, so obviously one wants to market themselves in the best possible light...but to me, it was amusing. For one, I would just assume or hope, that anyone beyond the age of 22 WAS independent/a nice guy/insert cliche phrase here??? If one truly IS independent/a nice guy/insert cliche phrase...shouldn't that just be apparent in the body of their profile, rather than having to make an official declaration????
I can say I'm the Queen of Sheba...doesn't make it so. I would think, rather than stating "I'm independent", why not add body to one's profile such that a sense of independence just emanates, rather than making blanket statements?
Not to mention, often it is just redundant and unnecessary. Like profiles stating "My kids come first"...umm...d'OH, isn't that just a given?
Not sure why people get up in arms though....I'd find cliche statements to be a turn-off, so why not just use them as a weeding-0ut tool, if they aren't your druthers? | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 4:24:01 PM |
I haven't seen many women try to TELL men how they should think or feel, least of all this woman - I hate (hate hate hate) having people tell me how I should feel or think. You, as well as I and everyone else on this board, are entitled to our feelings - what you or I or anyone are NOT entitled to do (in MY opinion) is belittle those who don't feel the way we do and try to IMPOSE our way of thinking on others - if YOU or anyone is offended by a word or anything else you see on a profile, what I AM telling you (and others) is to SKIP THAT PROFILE.
There are many many many words that I see on profiles that are an immediate turn-off *to me*....do I start threads belittling people for those words and try to convince them that they are WRONG for something that is on THEIR profiles?
The way I see it, I am thankful that there are still people capable of INDEPENDENT thoughts who don't fall for this cookie cutter one size fits all insanity which better allows me to decide for MYSELF if that person might be a good match for me by revealing their true self instead of some fake or generic persona created to please the masses or worse "not to offend" ....in other words, TO EACH THEIR OWN....is that so hard????
Thank you for your awesome post.
/thread. Anything more is flogging a long dead horse IMHO. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags? Posted: 10/26/2009 4:28:14 PM | So you can argue until next century that people must alter their messages in a way such that nobody's baggage can possibly affect their interpretation (not possible) but it's easier just to look for people who will either have the good grace to enquire about your meaning or, better yet, will just 'get you' because they think the same way.
Which is a perfect example of why I contend that women are not nearly the marvelous communicators that they believe they are.
I can't even count the number of women I've met, been involved with, who believe that men should just 'get' the message. Communication is about getting a message across to another person.
There should be no need for interpretation.
If the person who is meant to receive the message doesn't understand, of course they should ask for clarification, but it is STILL incumbent on the sender to be clear in the sending of the message.
Women blathering about their independence and their strength is clearly a message that is not well received by many men. Telling men that they need to change their interpretation of that message does nothing to change the perception of that message. In fact, I would argue that it causes more men to have a negative interpretation of that message.
And, it's likely that you and other women will tell us guys that we are completely wrong, which is common, and is another mistake that too many women often make....
... you believe that communicating AT men is the same as communicating WITH them... .

EDIT to add:
And, just for you language/semantic/usage Nazis out there, AT and WITH are prepositions. | |
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