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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 3:43:37 PM | That was me. Guilty as charged. This, after all, is a thread about the offensiveness of the "I don't NEED a man!" statement, not about Child Support.
Right. And I only brought it up because YOU brought it up (I should have thought that would be obvious;).
Thing is, most men will tell women that they see the "NEED/WANT" thing as obnoxious, at best, and some women will try to tell us that it's NOT obnoxious.
I haven't seen many women try to TELL men how they should think or feel, least of all this woman - I hate (hate hate hate) having people tell me how I should feel or think. You, as well as I and everyone else on this board, are entitled to our feelings - what you or I or anyone are NOT entitled to do (in MY opinion) is belittle those who don't feel the way we do and try to IMPOSE our way of thinking on others - if YOU or anyone is offended by a word or anything else you see on a profile, what I AM telling you (and others) is to SKIP THAT PROFILE.
There are many many many words that I see on profiles that are an immediate turn-off *to me*....do I start threads belittling people for those words and try to convince them that they are WRONG for something that is on THEIR profiles?
The way I see it, I am thankful that there are still people capable of INDEPENDENT thoughts who don't fall for this cookie cutter one size fits all insanity which better allows me to decide for MYSELF if that person might be a good match for me by revealing their true self instead of some fake or generic persona created to please the masses or worse "not to offend" ....in other words, TO EACH THEIR OWN....is that so hard????
Sorry for the caps (I did remove half of them) but um...these type of threads always get to me and I guess I'm not independent enough (or too stupid) to leave well enough alone:) 
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 4:10:50 PM |
Bragging of one's "independence" smacks to me of a two-year old in toilet-training saying, "See? I can go on the BIG BOY potty now!"
I have to admit...I agree. Not just in the "independence" statement though....frankly, I chalk it up to an online dating thing, key-phrases that are repetitively used on profiles to 'market' oneself. It's not just the 'independent' description though, and it's by no means gender-specific (think of all the male profiles who include "I am a nice guy" in them, as one example).
It could be one of two things. One, that, being a dating website, perhaps the women using this phrase, have received numerous emails already from men complaining about women trying to "use them" for money, so they want to set themselves apart from said women? (And again, not gender-specific...I'm sure all the self-proclaimed "nice guys" out there are possibly describing themselves as such, because the women they email are complaining about 'the last a$$hole'?)
Or, two...it could just be, that humans are unoriginal creatures, by and large.
To me, back when I was using this site to try to find dates, it was kind of funny, IMO...while I realize that yes, one's profile is the first thing other prospective dates will read or see, so obviously one wants to market themselves in the best possible light...but to me, it was amusing. For one, I would just assume or hope, that anyone beyond the age of 22 WAS independent/a nice guy/insert cliche phrase here??? If one truly IS independent/a nice guy/insert cliche phrase...shouldn't that just be apparent in the body of their profile, rather than having to make an official declaration????
I can say I'm the Queen of Sheba...doesn't make it so. I would think, rather than stating "I'm independent", why not add body to one's profile such that a sense of independence just emanates, rather than making blanket statements?
Not to mention, often it is just redundant and unnecessary. Like profiles stating "My kids come first"...umm...d'OH, isn't that just a given?
Not sure why people get up in arms though....I'd find cliche statements to be a turn-off, so why not just use them as a weeding-0ut tool, if they aren't your druthers? | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 4:24:01 PM |
I haven't seen many women try to TELL men how they should think or feel, least of all this woman - I hate (hate hate hate) having people tell me how I should feel or think. You, as well as I and everyone else on this board, are entitled to our feelings - what you or I or anyone are NOT entitled to do (in MY opinion) is belittle those who don't feel the way we do and try to IMPOSE our way of thinking on others - if YOU or anyone is offended by a word or anything else you see on a profile, what I AM telling you (and others) is to SKIP THAT PROFILE.
There are many many many words that I see on profiles that are an immediate turn-off *to me*....do I start threads belittling people for those words and try to convince them that they are WRONG for something that is on THEIR profiles?
The way I see it, I am thankful that there are still people capable of INDEPENDENT thoughts who don't fall for this cookie cutter one size fits all insanity which better allows me to decide for MYSELF if that person might be a good match for me by revealing their true self instead of some fake or generic persona created to please the masses or worse "not to offend" ....in other words, TO EACH THEIR OWN....is that so hard????
Thank you for your awesome post.
/thread. Anything more is flogging a long dead horse IMHO. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 4:28:14 PM | So you can argue until next century that people must alter their messages in a way such that nobody's baggage can possibly affect their interpretation (not possible) but it's easier just to look for people who will either have the good grace to enquire about your meaning or, better yet, will just 'get you' because they think the same way.
Which is a perfect example of why I contend that women are not nearly the marvelous communicators that they believe they are.
I can't even count the number of women I've met, been involved with, who believe that men should just 'get' the message. Communication is about getting a message across to another person.
There should be no need for interpretation.
If the person who is meant to receive the message doesn't understand, of course they should ask for clarification, but it is STILL incumbent on the sender to be clear in the sending of the message.
Women blathering about their independence and their strength is clearly a message that is not well received by many men. Telling men that they need to change their interpretation of that message does nothing to change the perception of that message. In fact, I would argue that it causes more men to have a negative interpretation of that message.
And, it's likely that you and other women will tell us guys that we are completely wrong, which is common, and is another mistake that too many women often make....
... you believe that communicating AT men is the same as communicating WITH them... .
EDIT to add:
And, just for you language/semantic/usage Nazis out there, AT and WITH are prepositions. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 4:40:36 PM | I am late on this one but I have visited the topic in other discussions....I think because it is a pop statement and it does carry some negative following..........there will always be a double take. The person that makes the statement should know that and that in its self suggest to it being confrontational............
I tend to look for what in paticular one is supposed to be independent of and have yet to see anyone show or say they were independent of anything short of " dont need a man."
We all still have to make the due bills and the feed the dog. We all still owe a certain amount of ourselves to family, friends and love ones and life does not allow for social or material independance we are all dependant sooner or later.......thus this ultimately ends up to be a statement about or two men..........
At one end of the deal is the sheep and that someone that follows the crowd and repeats what they have heard.......not quite understanding it all but believing they do........at the other end is the all too popular confrontational female that is in essence sending the message I can do this or that which is normally considered the " male role " and if you are going stop by here you are going to have to deal with me and my attitudes and perceptions ...............or do a little kiss up in the short..............
They say the proofs in the pudding .........and while I have not visited the topic early on I will wager that most if not all women here that have used the phrase are considered confronational by the majority of men here .....................and they refuse to hear it...lolllllllllllllll.
such are the issues of men and women.confusing and ..........confrontational.
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 4:49:20 PM | Those women are obviously having a wonderful relationship with their little drawer of friends...................so perhaps they really DON'T need a man.................LOL.
Personally I am looking forward to the day I meet my next partner knowing in my heart he's the one...................... | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 6:21:06 PM |
Those women are obviously having a wonderful relationship with their little drawer of friends...................so perhaps they really DON'T need a man.................LOL.
Well, this woman doesn't even have one "friend", let alone a drawer full, so perhaps those who assume to speak for others SHOULDN'T.....................LOL.
To assume that just because I take a stand on things and don't appreciate having (some) people attempt to DICTATE what goes on MY profile that I must be some lonely man hating lesbian (not that there's anything wrong with being a lesbian) who must resort to playing with her toys is almost too sad for words.
To further assume that because I state MY opinion in what I believe to be in a respectful manner that it must somehow mean that I don't want, miss, desire, hunger and LONG FOR the company of a man, a companion, a friend, a lover, a partner, a man who gets me and whom I get, is beyond sad.
And that's all I'm going to say on that...
\/\/\/ I'm not looking/dating from this site ... | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 6:37:23 PM | I am not on the attack so dont get me wrong.........
I think a few well placed questions and answers might give this situation new light...
I think the larger issue with most that have issue with the statement or pharase is that it suggest that being indpendent and needing a man are or should be defined in the same context.......I dont see that and I am sure many others dont.
What is it about being independant that says you dont need a man is the question and how do the two become dual issue in your life at the same time?
I by example do most of what is defined as independent but I have never cosidered that and relatioship interest in the same breth......There has to be a reason why you do. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 6:54:43 PM | Wow Another brick inthewall, between the screen name and your post to this thread you're just about the most agreeable lovable person I have never met.
Whether you are dating here or in the real world just by defending your stance of being independant just screams red flag. That I believe was the point of theother post.
This isn't the single parent forum is it?  | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:33:11 PM | I agree with most of the original post. It's easy to make such a statement and have it sound rather standoff-ish. One nitpick though...
How does one build a LONG TERM RELATIONSHIP with someone who doesn't need you anyway?
I'd feel more comfortable with someone who was going after what she wanted, rather than being pushed forward by a perceived need. People will do silly things to get something they think they NEED. So you build the relationship on mutual WANTS - you both want each other | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:49:12 PM |
So you build the relationship on mutual WANTS - you both want each other
How much effort does one put in achieving their WANTS? And compare that effort to what one expends in achieving their NEEDS! And we wonder why relationships don't last these days?
WANT relationships usually = Intimate encounters, FWB/NSA, ONS
NEED relationship usually = Dating, Long Term
JMHO | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 8:01:00 PM | OP: I would have to agree. Plus, why does anyone feel the need to advertise this on a dating site or anywhere for that matter?
Advertising something like this is sort of defeating the purpose of attracting a man. If a person is independent it will be evident by their person/lifestyle. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 8:16:39 PM | Wow Another brick inthewall, between the screen name and your post to this thread you're just about the most agreeable lovable person I have never met.
Why thank you.
Whether you are dating here or in the real world just by defending your stance of being independant just screams red flag.
I am NOT defending my stance of being independent - I have NEVER once claimed to be an "independent woman" - not here, not in real life, not on this or any prior profile, not anywhere. What I am defending is my right to say what I want on my profile (within the acceptable rules of course) and that if for any reason my profile offends, insults, annoys, irritates or angers anyone, they are MORE THAN welcome to click on the next profile. For the life of me, I cannot understand what is SO hard to understand about a concept that is so simple even a 5 year old child would get it.
This isn't the single parent forum is it?
I have no idea what you meant by that comment. I don't post or participate in the single parent's forum for many reasons, primarily because I have never identified myself as a single parent - I personally find the term archaic and insulting. Every child has two parents, which cancels out the single in the equation - in my opinion.
Secondly, both my children were planned and conceived within a loving relationship (yes, a legal marriage, not that it makes any difference)....thirdly, even though I'm divorced, I didn't raise my kids single handily - their father AND step-father (my partner of twenty years) played (and continue to play) a huge role in their lives.
Fourthly, I have NO desire to associate in any way shape or form with the many trolls that specifically and almost exclusively hang on that particular forum to bash and insult all single mothers (and all women in general).
Fifthly, I don't have any "single mother" issues - my income is adequate, my housing is adequate, we eat well, my grand-daughter (15) is doing great, her grand-father (my ex) continues to play a big part in her life, we have a lot of support in the form of family and friends, my two older daughters are on their own and doing good, the ex, his new partner, her children and grand-children, my children and grand-children all get along...so yeah, I'd say we're doing pretty good. And even though YOU might not agree, I am indeed a nice and lovable person.
And no, I don't need a man...there aren't many things I need in this life...however, there are many things I desire and long for...whether YOU or anyone find that offensive is beyond my control - unlike some, I have no need or desire to control you or make you bow to my wishes.
I was hoping for understanding, but in the end, what I really need and want is a little peace. So peace ... :)
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 8:23:09 PM | Lets see....looking for an independent woman....but op says no thats a no no, he already gets that so why bother?...any one else confused? Talk about all over the place...make your mind up chocolate or vinilla...its really that simple.
I could rely on you to pay my bills....wanna have at er? cost and effect Einstein | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 8:28:41 PM |
How much effort does one put in achieving their WANTS? And compare that effort to what one expends in achieving their NEEDS! And we wonder why relationships don't last these days?
People will put as much effort as possible into a need. I don't think this is healthy when the need isn't really a need, because people will do stupid things for perceived needs. They'll throw themselves into bad relationships just to have one, or drive themselves into debt to have stuff they can't afford. They will comprimise.
Or put another way, I'd rather be with a woman who wants to be with me. Not one who feels she needs to be. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 8:31:07 PM | | i agree. from a womans point of view i guess things r posted like that to let the potenial men out there know that they r independant. I have said the same thing at least once in my life other wise i would be lying if i said i have never said it. From my experience I know that some men( not all) can pose a problem thats why i guess some of those kinds of statements r made. Maybe this will help you out or maybe this is some of the same stuff you already have been told or already knew. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 9:27:12 PM | | A man doesn't need to make the statement that he's "independent" but yet a woman feels the need to make it maybe because a lot of men think of women as "needy" so why is it wrong for a woman to announce that she's "independent"? It sounds like double standards to me. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/26/2009 9:32:00 PM |
A man doesn't need to make the statement that he's "independent" but yet a woman feels the need to make it maybe because a lot of men think of women as "needy" so why is it wrong for a woman to announce that she's "independent"? It sounds like double standards to me.   What exactly are you trying to say here? What is the double standard? WTH. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/27/2009 2:14:46 PM | Maybe it's only a red flag if you don't like independent women (it happens).
As an 'older' woman when I first started dating again I found two sorts of guys, those who like the changes that have happened in relationships where male/females can be equals (humanist not feminist) and those that still hunger for the 'good old days' when the little woman would be waiting hand and foot to appease their every need at the expense of their own needs, or rely on the guy to fulfil all of those needs.
Putting 'independent' on a profile does highlight the differences so it should come as no shock to the guy if they behave that way and not the other. That's not to say independent women are not also generous and loving, but there is a difference in the how.
Maybe not so much 'red flag' as heads up. So if it keeps you away from those women that's a good thing.. no different to smoker/non smoker, noisy/quiet, you get to tick off your preferences.
It does take all kinds. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/27/2009 2:56:27 PM |
A man doesn't need to make the statement that he's "independent" but yet a woman feels the need to make it maybe because a lot of men think of women as "needy" so why is it wrong for a woman to announce that she's "independent"? It sounds like double standards to me.
When you say that a woman FEELS THE NEED....to make the statement, to justify, explain or compare herself.....that in itself should tell you that....ehhhh...she's probably "not" as independent as she thinks she is. I mean, seriously....IF she were so "independent"; would she really care that some men think that all women are "needy"?
Men and women both say things all the time (applying some generalization or another)....it's real simple.....if it doesn't apply to me; I disregard it.
If a man thinks that I'm "needy" because I'm a woman.....Ok, no biggie....just move on dude. What do I care what he thinks? Likewise, if one says that I'm "independent".....yeah, so? Your point is?
I try to make the concentrated effort to NOT define myself; because....no matter what I would say....depending on any individual that I might be talking to; THEY would have an entirely different perspective. For an example: what if I were to say, I'm beautiful, or I'm ugly? No matter which one I say that I am, there will be some who agree, and some who disagree.
Making these self declarations is fruitless and more often than not leads to an argument rather than settles one. | |
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| I Don't Need A Man.., I very Independent..etc etc = RED Flags?
Posted: 10/27/2009 3:26:44 PM | Really? How can this be such a huge issue. Men are constantly complaining about how women spend their money, expect them to do this that or the other thing . You would think a women with her own career, hobbies and the ability to let her partner have their own life would be refreshing only because of how men always complain that women are too needy, clingy and dont let them be their own person. Bwahahaha. Seems to me ya all like it, and not unlike some women, you just like to have something to bytch about. So I say shut it, and move on to something else to complain about.. I dont think some men can be pleased any easier than some women can!!
^T^ | |
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