| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:58:24 AM | well, if it's one thing i have learned, can't teach my kids from my mistakes. they are gonna do their own version of their own learning. that is what life is all about: learning. not just in relationships, but work, et al.
as to trying hard enough, in my first marriage, i followed the advice of our marriage counselor and did "everything" i could on my end. i asked wasn't this groveling and she said "no". if you do all this, and the marriage still does not succeed, you will never look back and wonder with regrets! she was right and i applied it to the second marriage and my longstanding "signficant other" of three years after my last divorce.
today, some marry and some don't. like elizabeth taylor, some feel compelled to marry all the men in their lives. morals and perceptions vary. but for me, taking in a lot of 12 step work as well (and i see there is a lot of that wisdom posting above me), i have boiled it all down to this: we are in our bodies and on this planet to learn, to serve and lately i've added: to love.
way back i ran a thread after i met with this minister from africa who was perceived as a guru. he really shifted my energy and thoughts on this matter in a very profound meditation that he guided me through. a lot of how he views this world is tied heavily into nature and the universe--in fact, we expanded to multiple universes.
he said to view different relationships as different seasonal cycles. for some there is something to be learned in winter, for others in spring. for others, it may run it's course less years and for others a lifetime. when each relationship is over, "that" lesson is over. it is not about being a failure, it is about growth.
if our internal computers came with programs that could not be used, but just finished documents, then why bother having a computer to "process"? well, the same applies to our brains, our hearts and our souls. we have lot of different mechanisms ticking inside ourselves and all of it is connected into something that is larger within ourselves-- and much larger as we forge connections with others and into the universe.
i believe our energies enter our physical bodies with distinct limits from the get go's. we are limited by our bodies first, then our five senses, then each scenario that we choose. sometimes, due to the free will of others, we inherit what "they" choose--aka the "footprint poem".
we can only add wisdom to each experience and in keeping with some of the twelve step tone above, that is the crux of the matter: when do you accept the things you cannot change? when do you gather the courage to change what you can? how and where do you get the wisdom to know the difference? well, you get it "one day at a time" and you find it doing life!
hindsight is just that and will add to the wisdom pool afterwards. but, let's face it wooby, someone like you will always find "new" experiences in order to learn more. that is why you are my idol and my role model. if it was easy, you'd be back in that first marriage and you wouldn't have learned "squat".
wooby, you rock! | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/23/2009 11:09:07 AM | | From where I sit one's best bets of finding a good, solid, supportive down to earth spouse are when one is young, at university. At my point in life the longer I am single the more it feels I will be better off remaining single. It seems like a jungle out there to me. I have dodged the bullet a few times now and I made notes of why I cut things off with each woman. When I review the notes from time to time they validate my decision in each case. | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/23/2009 11:18:50 AM |
but for me, taking in a lot of 12 step work as well (and i see there is a lot of that wisdom posting above me), i have boiled it all down to this: we are in our bodies and on this planet to learn, to serve and lately i've added: to love.
Amen, Serenity! 
I think the most difficult lesson I learned was that we can love someone best by not continuing to enable them. It's really not even a matter of 'best,' but 'if' we love them we won't do it... even tho they're telling us if we love them we will. Often we end up being the object of their hatred and lose their love if they never pull out of their nose dive. If I hadn't learned that lesson, accepted it and found peace, I couldn't have endured the past 2 years. | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/23/2009 11:56:43 AM | The lesson I learned is without communication, you don't have a relationship. You can't do a one person relationship. It doesn't matter how hard you try, it doesn't work.
You can't make the other person go to the doctors or make them want to be well for you, they can only do it for themselves. | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/23/2009 3:05:22 PM | adventurousme57 wrote:
I don't want to be in a relationship that is 'work'. If it doesn't flow and have a sense of peace, warmth and joy about it naturally, I would rather lay on my couch with my cat.
My initial response to this thread is the antithesis of the above post: any relationship worth anything takes work/effort. Everything I achieved in life, all that I succeeded in life, etc., required determination and sweat. As I sit back and contemplate the lint in my navel I think that is where things went wrong for us, we stopped trying, working, putting forth the effort to make things better; and we lapsed into marital malaise.
A part of me wonders what, if anything, I have learned; am I destined to repeat the behaviors of the first time around; were those behaviors a product of me or of us; and if so, would it be different with someone else. Would OUR dynamics be sufficiently different to avoid the pitfalls I know so well. Or, is it me?
TK | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/23/2009 3:16:48 PM | Once you know what and why it happened, you will recognize the signs in future relationships. It will then be up to you whether you act on what you notice, or just let things slide back into another split. Its you, but its not you. Its you because you make the decision, its not you because nothing is stuck to you.
As to whether a relationship required work, of course if things are going well it never feels like work, because you are getting what you need from it. You are still working all the time, every day in a million small and seemingly insignificant interactions. Some of them you blow, others you don't. Its the accumulation of little failures that make the split, or the accumulation of little successes that make the growing bond. | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/23/2009 4:03:02 PM | when every relationship in one's life ends before the 2-year mark, it's a sure-fire sign that there's something wrong with you...
at least in MY case, i'm pretty sure that's what it means!
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/23/2009 4:13:40 PM |
when every relationship in one's life ends before the 2-year mark, it's a sure-fire sign that there's something wrong with you...
Oh, I don't know if that is true. Lots and lots of people have that kind of life because of something simple like career choice. Might mean that you also just enjoy new experiences. | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/23/2009 4:16:55 PM | | We all learn lessons, Life is the greatest teacher there is. I truly believe that if we go through life without making mistakes, what do we have to learn? If we didn't experience sadness or anger, how would we truly know what joy or happiness would be? What I do know about myself is I'm not up to fixing or changing another person, in any type of relationship. If I can't accept their behavior or there are deal breakers, they aren't a part of my life. | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/23/2009 4:39:44 PM |
So now I wonder, if we somehow learn the wrong lessons from failure? And how do we change that? Is it even possible to change, or are we doomed to just doing more of the same?
If a lesson is learned, it can't be all that bad,,,
It what you do with the lesson that's what counts,,,
If you act accordingly with the experience, it does what it's meant to,,,
If you overreact to it, it goes haywire and you may need another "schooling" or refresher course,,, that's all,,,
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/23/2009 5:24:09 PM | Catsmeow--I have always loved that poem! Thanks for bringing it here.
Serenity--the name sure seems to suit you, I always love what you share.
Wooby---this thread is wonderful, how you doin'? | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/24/2009 3:21:48 AM | ah morningsong, "serenity" was the goal. i should have used "mashuga". i also loved that poem and now i know the author!
i am undergoing "paradigm shift"myself. my latest word is perspicacity-- a little more playful!
as to whether a relationship should be "work" or "no work": i believe a relationship or partnership between two people requires love, work and communication-- as well as "something" shared that is big. i believe you need to want this or you won't get it. i do not love unconditionally, as i don't want my energy drained. but, i do make my conditions reasonable and understood, as well as respect the conditions of my partner. of course, i know them before the partnership is declared. i also can forgive, for my own sake if for nothing else.
i always loved my work. sometimes not the actual work itself, but what came from the work. perhaps it's not that we don't want to work. rephrased, perhaps what we seek is the path of least resistance as we work. it takes work to paddle a boat, but against the natural flow of the water is kind of dysfunctional. so we wish to paddle together,
but in the right direction and with the greatest ease, enjoyment and/or (at least) efficiency. | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/24/2009 4:04:43 AM | actually, lasting change is possible. and contrary to popular opinion (including those of many so-called psychologists), specific, lasting change is not only possible... it is actually easier when it happens quickly and when it happens quickly, it's easier to learn.
here's an example of the process: people get phobias from just one brief traumatic event. that's an example that illustrates a negative form of lasting change, but positive lasting change is also available and phobias can be cured in about 15 minutes.
to answer your other question, sometimes we learn the wrong lessons from failure but that only comes from asking the wrong questions or from not continuing to ask questions or from failing to ask any questions at all. however, the very process of continually asking questions eventually leads one to the truth ;) | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/24/2009 1:15:08 PM | | I had practically the same experience. In my first marriage, I realized he wouldn't keep a job, and boom, I left him and didn't look back. However, my old-fashioned Italian relatives (women) said, I took a vow for better or worse and I was wrong to leave him. That weighed heavily on me. So when I met my 2nd husband, I vowed to try harder. Over the nightmarish 28 years, he took advantage of me in just about every way possible. And I stayed. Even 'he' told me to my face that I had no right to expect better since I was already a 'loser' before we ever met. In his opinion, I was lucky to 'get a man at all'. Finally, after 28 years, I left him. I felt drained, used and had no self-worth whatsoever. I realize today that I should have told my old-fashioned relatives to 'stick it'. Marriage isn't supposed to be about tolerating abuse. My 2nd husband didn't respect me, because I didn't respect myself. There will be no 3rd husband. lol | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/24/2009 4:02:21 PM | relationship is one part fantasy and one part reality. finally...when reality seem to subdue fantasy...relationship by one or other be quit.
lots of people go into relationship with-out proper respects and knowledge of self and other. thats a fact based on accident more than planning. | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/24/2009 7:12:24 PM | I had a less than great first marriage, which ended in divorce. Can't think of anything worse than raising kids in a hostile environment. I was lucky to meet and remarry some years later, to a terrific guy. Our relationship lasted fifteen years, it was effortless, at least it seemed that way.
Optimistically I hope I can find someone special again! | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/24/2009 9:32:53 PM |
Our relationship lasted fifteen years, it was effortless, at least it seemed that way.
Optimistically I hope I can find someone special again!
I have to admit I envy anyone who has experienced an effortless relationship. I've always wondered how that happens, is it luck, or two people just so attuned to one another's needs? | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/25/2009 12:24:03 AM | | Three for me. First one was interesting and gave me my daughter, second was the rebound train-wreck so I try not to count that one, I thought the third one was "The One" but she thought differently. If someone came along who totally rocked my world I'd do it all again. | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/25/2009 6:59:04 PM | Many of us are attracted to people who would be wrong for us, but satisfy a need for acceptance by those in our past whom we couldn't have.
I think we need to be realistic, less fussy, and patient. | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/25/2009 7:07:54 PM | I have to admit I envy anyone who has experienced an effortless relationship. I've always wondered how that happens, is it luck, or two people just so attuned to one another's needs?
I had an "effortless" second marriage and that was partly by luck and partly by us being very attuned to each other's needs (which was also lucky). That run of luck ran out when he died. I don't expect that I'll ever be quite that lucky again (i.e. a no-effort relationship), though I have had other great relationships since then. I'm also lucky to have such wonderful memories of a very happy marriage. Lots of people don't have that.
I agree that we need to be realistic and patient, even though it IS so darn difficult to do so!
Oh, and P.S. Wooby is my hero! | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/25/2009 9:27:38 PM | Your joking, right?
...Women pick their cavemen...one nighters, short term or long term, take your pick.
When we're younger females are dumb enough to believe opposites attract.
...The dumber ones repeat this error a second or even third time.
Women love to be in control, they love to believe, "he's trainable".
Commonality is the best intangible...not "if he has a certain gleem in his eye", etc etc.
...With so many breakups, I would venture it is at least 8 times out of 10 where the woman simply made a poor choice for a partner and then continues to believe in the fairy tale syndrome of a Prince in shining armour.
Men are basic and we certainly are untrainable after 40.
Otherwise, women do deserve better.
UM
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/26/2009 11:50:28 AM | I'm feeling like a freshman here.
One would think there would be
points for screwing up only once...
but it's not so.
I'd say most people are untrainable
after 40...so unless some are open
to compromise...I'm guessing a whole
bunch of people will remain single.
People seem to want what they never
had...and since they never had it...most
don't even know what the heck it is.
But that's just my opinion...what the heck
do I know...I'm here posting with you guys.
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/26/2009 1:21:25 PM |
I have to admit I envy anyone who has experienced an effortless relationship.
Me too. When an old couple walks hand in hand, I see the couple is beautiful. Then my heart is a little pain because I can't find someone who I enjoy holding his hand.  | |
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| Second (or Third or. . . ) Time Around
Posted: 10/26/2009 1:25:40 PM | Then my heart is a little pain because I can't find someone who I enjoy holding his hand.
That is a rather revealing statement. Makes me want to ask exactly why you don't get enjoyment out of holding someone's hand? Some people are just reserved by nature when it comes to expressions of closeness, either due to culture, upbringing, or psychological state.
In any event, they way you put it, it sounds like the issue resides primarily with you somehow.... | |
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