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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 26 | |
| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 11:30:21 PM |
Do you really think it's such a hot idea now?
well, yeah, of course, because its the only intelligent thing to do, but from all that I can see how we came by current set of laws. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/29/2009 8:16:13 AM | Wudger...
Why did I leave out booze and cigs? Cause they ARE legal. Don't you know the difference between what IS legal now and what is NOT?
Since when are hard core drug users incarcerated? Didn't know they were. Unless they were committing crimes to get their drug of choice.
Why wouldn't druggies steal to support their habit, legal or not? (People steal to get booze and cigs...which are legal....)The price is still there! Hello....they'd STILL have to pay for it. Think for a second the gov't would bring the price down? Good lord...where would be the tax advantage to that?
Nobody ever died of heroin withdrawal? Huh? I've never heard of a case where anyone died that quit smoking. Or quit drinking. There are ways to do both that are safer than "cold turkey". Get with it.How about an overdose? How about getting killed while stoned?
Sorry Wudger....you almost sound as if you are trying to justify drug use, saying "It's only as bad as...what's out there now!" Unfortunately, most people KNOW it is not. It is far worse. Not to mention the fact that as far as illegal substance abuse is concerned, it affects more and more people yearly!
Legalizing pot could lead to legalizing other things.
Perhaps the idea of treating it as a health problem could be used as a model for legalization purposes. Perhaps that is buried in the agenda of the healthcare reforms in the US right now. Anyone know anything about that?
I'm just not sure I'd want to be trusting the person working next to me if they are stoned. Doesn't matter what job I'm on. As is...if they were drinking, I wouldn't trust them, and can have them removed form the job in order to make the workplace safer.
We'd need rules in place about drug use on the job. Having seen it for myself, I know what can happen when some coke-head is running a machine and it fouls up. | |
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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 28 | |
| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/29/2009 8:36:38 AM |
Since when are hard core drug users incarcerated? Didn't know they were. Unless they were committing crimes to get their drug of choice.
Why wouldn't druggies steal to support their habit, legal or not? (People steal to get booze and cigs...which are legal....)The price is still there! Hello....they'd STILL have to pay for it. Think for a second the gov't would bring the price down? Good lord...where would be the tax advantage to that?
Nobody ever died of heroin withdrawal? Huh? I've never heard of a case where anyone died that quit smoking. Or quit drinking. There are ways to do both that are safer than "cold turkey". Get with it.How about an overdose? How about getting killed while stoned?
whew, ok....
hard core drug users get incarcerated all the time. hello. reality calling. possession is a CRIME. I have two friends who have served time for simple possession.
come on, how many people commit armed robbery or BE to get a pack of cigarettes or a bottle of wine? given the incredible markup drugs get on the illegal market, you could tax the living hell out of them and still make them much more affordable. the street level does of heroin sells for almost $10 a go. costs about 10 cents to make. decent weed costs $400 an ounce. costs about a nickel to grow. you could tax them an incredible rate and still make it far more affordable. (and I mean FAR more affordable.)
nobody ever died of a heroin withdrawal. makes you feel like hell maybe (maybe) but it does NOT kill you. alcohol and the DTs are a different story. withdrawal there certainly can kill you. and stopping smoking may not kill you but its one of the hardest single habits there is to beat. the cessation rate on junkies is far better than the cessation rate of cigs.
and if drugs were legal, instead of taking unknown amounts, users would know what they are taking which certainly would reduce overdose deaths.
the biggest problem with drug policy in the US is we are so inundated with decades of misinformation that most people (as we can see in these posts) have no idea what the issues are.
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 3:21:15 PM | Not having it legal shows how stupid our country can be.
Oh and for the other comment of a joint not being an anything,I live in Sheriff Arpeio country and you can do 3 months in tent city for a joint,yes its a large hot tent behind razor wire in the desert heat, summers average 115 degrees,but I understand the tents are much more hot,Arpeio states 140 degrees ,hey he gives a fan for the doorway.
What a waste of police time,money and energy,what a waste of city funds,what a waste of jail space,what a waste of a guards time.No one has ever OD'd off pot,ever.I'm not saying they should make alcohol illegal,but it would make more sense,its at least 20 times more damaging than pot.Pots down on record as being perhaps the most rounded plant in existence,never a finer machine oil,or a stronger fiber material,or a better rope,or a better weed for energy,and perhaps holds the record for plant with the most medicinal uses,saving us 100s of billions on pharmaceuticals we would not have to buy.
Oh god forbid you use pot for pain when they can use a prescription heroin instead.Like I said it just shows how stupid our country can be,and just how much we let the christian,conservative moral majority influence our lives,no matter how stupid it actually is. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 3:35:02 PM | | Legalize all of it,i'm sick of paying to protect fools from themselves...and just in case anyone thinks we are protected from the fools with the current laws...we are not. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 4:13:49 PM | Two things seriously wrong with your arguments yna6, why would you automatically as sume that legalization would mean that suddenly everyone would show up for work stoned? How is that even worthy of adding to the discussion?
Where is your proof that it more harmful than booze? No one here is claiming that it won't affect your lungs, any idiot would have a clue that smoke can damage lungs.
Your argument about leaving booze and cigs out because they ARE legal is pretty weak. Booze was illegal at one point and if I ran things I would make tobacco illegal (and I smoke!) and the way things are going it may soon be.
The reasons for the current state of legality of all three have nothing to do with health or abuse, it is simply political or corporate power that keeps them in their current state. Prohibition came to an end because someone had the wisdom to see that it was a losing battle and please feel free to try and say that there were many politicians that earned a fair bit of money during. Chicago ring a bell? The rich at that time did not deny themselves of their champagne and martinis either.
Way to go on stating the obvious with the "rules" of no getting stoned before work. But how about we have a breathalizer test at the punch clock or security door every morning? There would be many that would turned away daily.
And let us have a look at booze once again shall we? Tell me there isn't an AA meeting in every town? How about the continuous public service ads on TV? There must be a few every prime time extolling abuse of this "legal" substance.
You speak like you know very little of this horrible thing you would like to keep illegal and like another poster has said misinformation is a dangerous thing.
And just for kicks as far as being so adamant about what is "legal" , I would bet everything I own that you walk a fine line there my friend and say you choose to bend a few "rules" yourself, no one is perfect but if you insist on throwing stones while living in the glass house, it just makes your arguments that much weaker.
Educate yourself, it may open your eyes. There are many easily attainable sites that have very good information that you can easily see that weed is just a victim of greed and political ambition and I believe in these tough economic times that Obama sees the DEA's agenda for what it is. A big waste of time and money. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 4:24:09 PM | I think Marijuana is very unfairly demonized. And I think it is absurd that Alcohol, a substance that kills more people than handguns every year, nevermind the toll it takes on families - is judged fit to be legal but - Marijuana is not! People are stupid.
I'm sure part of the problem is that the lawmakers like to go have a drink so they won't touch what THEY like.
I'd rather deal with a person high on pot than drunk on booze any day.
And another thing: The USA has more people in prison serving on avg. 6 yrs for minor drug offenses than all of Western Europe has in prison for ANY crime! And Western Europe has a higher population! The USA wastes zillions of dollars on a silly drug law that could be put to better use elsewhere. It's idiotic. | |
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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 33 | |
| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 5:10:16 PM |
Legalize all of it,i'm sick of paying to protect fools from themselves...and just in case anyone thinks we are protected from the fools with the current laws...we are not.
do us fools a favor. the next time you get an urge to pass a law to protect us from us, don't do it. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 5:33:04 PM | I have no idea why its not decriminalized period,its works better than like 126 prescription drugs being sold by the drug industry,there was no better material,rope,oil,and talk about cheap oil at that, if commercially grown,do you realize we could fuel our autos with it,it would end our dependence in other countries oil.There has never been one death associated to marijuana use period,thats an actual fact.Its not addictive,you cannot OD from it,its a medical miracle,and decriminalizing it would free up our prisons for putting in actual criminals,roughly 70 % of our prisoners are in for pot,which costs tens of billions in everything from Apache helicopters to all the task forces,prison guards and jails and prisons.Wow that would be enough to easily handle the cost of any medical reform we ever dream of doing but never had the money.
I say slap a tax on it likes cigs and there you go.It has to be the most rounded multi use plant ever put on this planet by God,its as if God had a master plan with this ,good for everything plant !
When you do research on it ,as to why its been criminalized, it has more to do with everything else but it being a party favor,its more about control,alcohol lobbyist,prescription drug lobbyists,Nixon taking the heat off of the war,even big money items like thousands and thousands of jobs created just to fight it and house the prisoners,Private prisons,which are the majority,is real big money.Pretty much every reason in history had to do with everything other than a party favor.
Why should we have a medicine that grows like a weed that works better than 126 drugs prescribed now, losing billions in sales for those poor prescription drug manufacturers,even the drug testing is a waste according to the DEA,pot stays in the system for up to 30 days and all the hard drugs stay in for 24 hours,the DEA said all it teaches kids are if we do the harder drugs on the weekend I will pass my drug test on Monday.Majority of drug testing places state that also,because they complain that all the test ever shows is the pot smoker,the guy just in an accident at work shows positive for marijuana,that voided his workmans comp and he might of only smoked it on a long weekend camping trip 3 weeks earlier. Wake up people ! If this was about our health then Alcohol would have been criminalized and eradicated years ago,besides no prohibition has ever worked,never in history,ever !
Hows our war on drugs now,hows that workin out ! Fact the very first prohibition was a bust,it involved two people and even that failed.God forbid Adam and Eve from eating a forbidden fruit,that's the first recorded prohibition and it failed, so has every other one ever done throughout history,yet will still have new batches of new goody two shoes dumb enough to continue on with stuff that doesn't work.lets work on something bad,lets put our energy into something bad and stop wasting valuable jail space and valuable police officers time on something as petty as marijuana,like our courts are not busy enough we need to pursue something as extremely petty and harmless as marijuana.
Its should be held high on a pedestal as the greatest multi use plant in existence,think hard of what plant has more uses, dare you !
Its stated all the time that everybody then will smoke pot,well that's nonsense,the cities leaders in the Netherlands were interviewed about the change of the drug law,they stated ,oh my god,we're in trouble,the whole world is going to come here to live and party now.They then told of how wrong they were of that within the first two years,crimes went down drastically ,police had time to go after the actual real criminals,HIV was reduced significantly ,the saving they made they put into education.
They found that mostly those that smoked or used continued too ,and there was no significant rise in usage.They said they also allowed the hard core person to come into the clinics and get a shot,which almost stopped violent home invasions because before that a junkie was forced to rob daily,and by controlling the needle,they controlled AIDS.Such a small amount of needle users find life so hopeless that they shoot up,so the numbers stayed the same,slight.The violent drug gang trouble slowed way down since the value was removed and it no longer took a mafia to supply you.
The Netherlands said it was one of the best things they ever did,and they are a case study being studied for decades now.Like A US doctor said that advocated drug use legalized,she said whether Coke was legal or not,she still wouldn't even try it.Thats same with me with current things we have in society, legal or not,I never have nor never have had any desire to be with a prostitute,but I could care less if they are around,freedom of choice,if you took the back alley stigma off it,it could be safely regulated,and health regulated and then buh bye to the violent pimp,heck,it could be in a mall spa,open only to 18 and over,like a mall bar currently is,or just like a dental or doctors office .See these extreme conservative Christian fears that if things are available, everyone will do it,because apparently man has no control,that bull,thats nonsense and its an ignorant thought !
If a priest had a wife,especially since the Bible makes no reference to not being able to,then you'd not have so many perverts in the church.Celibacy and prohibitions to not and have never ever worked.By restricting a normal part of life you only made it nasty and forbidden.You caused the problem.
The western world is full of prudes ! | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 5:37:37 PM | marijuana killed my father....
oh wait no it didnt
The worst I've felt in my life was after drinking 3 olde english malt liquor 40's...the next morning i contemplated suicide until i puffed on a joint......After that I was able to function as a human being and now continue to live a successful exciting life.
What's so wrong with that? | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:02:37 PM | Not sure the proper term...ironic?...hypocritical? Anyways...
Of the 7 posters on this thread overtly advocating legalization, only 1 person had the balls to state on their profile they do drugs...
So, it's merely more of the same ol' "do as I say, not as I do" crapola...even though it's preached on these boards day after day, "watch what they do, rather than what they say".
~ds~ | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 9:19:14 PM | What planet are you from
Of the 7 posters on this thread overtly advocating legalization, only 1 person had the balls to state on their profile they do drugs...
So, it's merely more of the same ol' "do as I say, not as I do" crapola...even though it's preached on these boards day after day, "watch what they do, rather than what they say". Are you trying to say that one needs to do heroin to understand whether the war on drugs is a total waste of 100s of billions or a shining exemplary example of a successful strategy.Did you have to be a drinker to completely understand that prohibition did not work in fact it was the direct reason the Mafia got its foothold,so thank the goody two shoes for the mafia.Are you trying to say that a person should forgo a job because he would rather smoke pot than pass a required drug test to have a job and feed his family as if its even the companies right to know what a person did on a weekend camping trip twice a year.Are you suggesting that the DEA that says the war on drugs is making very little headway,billions of dollars later ,that they ,the DEA,all need to be on drugs to understand.
In what world do you live where it states one needs to have extensive personal and book knowledge of drugs to understand that most cities main goal is actually confiscation laws,it makes them,tens of millions,its legal robbery.Do I need to quote actual dollar amounts of what this country spends on housing marijuana users,how much money we spend on those Apache helicopters ,and on DEA training Colombian soldiers and how much money we give Mexico,and for what,they're still lopping off heads and placing them on the doorsteps of Town Hall,and why,Because it has great value,its illegal,we made a war around it,we have armies for it,we have created a price so high,they cut off heads to vie for positioning of who can sell it.
If marijuana was in cigarette packs with the same tax as cigarettes we would not have this problem,we don't war over cigarettes,nor did we war over Coke when it was just in a bottle a Coke.All these drugs used to be legal until the perfect conservative and religious persons demanded they be heard and created this hell they call inner city gangs and a war on drugs,what morons,we should be able to hold them criminally liable for causing so much harm.
Heck,much of the original fear based hype was racial,the preacher would say,why if the black man smokes marijuana,he's going to rape your child,The first actual nail put on pot was the leaders charging a tax to grow it,it grew from there,and the lies told of black man worked well into the stories of evil,surrounding the weed and helping to keep the black man in his proper place,as far a fine upstanding church going Klan type citizens were concerned.Ignorant people and political types more in fear of losing there standing since the war on drugs was how they originally got elected,and a whole economy of policing,housing of,and war and pharmaceuticals are about the only ones now that protest it. That's quite a group.Just the privatized prison lobbyists would put up a great fight,to much money loss.That's the short sighted view though. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 9:32:01 PM |
Are you trying to say that one needs to do heroin to understand whether the war on drugs is a total waste of 100s of billions or a shining exemplary example of a successful strategy.
Hmm, let me go check the thread title again...yep, I was right...it says "marijuana", not "heroin". So what are you saying? All drugs should be legal?
Did you have to be a drinker to completely understand that prohibition did not work in fact it was the direct reason the Mafia got its foothold,so thank the goody two shoes for the mafia
LOL..."it" also was the direct reason we now have NASCAR...for some reason though, I seem to be drawing a distinction between an organized crime outfit and a highly regulated sports industry.
All these drugs used to be legal until the perfect conservative and religious persons demanded they be heard and created this hell they call inner city gangs and a war on drugs,what morons,we should be able to hold them criminally liable for causing so much harm.
Yeah, that's pretty typical for a liberal...blame the purporters of laws and law enforcement rather than the perpertrators of the crimes. Okay, okay...let's just legalize it all...as long as your on board to be held criminally and financially liable for whatever increase in crime is a result...deal? Yeah, didn't think so...
~ds~ | |
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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 39 | |
| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 10:02:03 PM |
Yeah, that's pretty typical for a liberal...blame the purporters of laws and law enforcement rather than the perpertrators of the crimes. Okay, okay...let's just legalize it all...as long as your on board to be held criminally and financially liable for whatever increase in crime is a result...deal? Yeah, didn't think so...
no, you should think so. we will substantially cut the prison population, which saves major dough which we can plow back into law enforcement.
if drugs were legal, exactly why do you think that there would be an increase in crime? given that drug users will no longer have to pay huge money for a product that costs pennies to produce, drugs would no longer provide an impetus to steal.
one of the bigger problems is that narcotics now largely support a fair chunk of the innercity economies and a huge chunk of US farming. legalization would probably mean the end of a large number of small farms across the midwest. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 10:04:16 PM | I don't know what the exact laws are on possession of pot, nor the laws regarding selling it. But, I have been to Amsterdam, and while it works in a very small country like Holland, I do not see legalized pot working well in the US. Holland is a country with an almost zero population growth, an older population demographically, a very strong and self contained socialized government, not a large immigrant population or massive amounts of poor people or social ills. So, containing the legalization of pot is not such a problem for them. However, the US is a huge country with a very diverse population, many poor people and massive social ills that are already unmanageble, to add legalized pot to the maelstrom would not be a good thing.
However, laws regarding possession should be designed so that there is no jail time associated with it. Laws regarding selling it should also not result in jail time, if the 'dealer' has no other criminal history. In other words, I think it is ridiculous for people to be sitting in jails or prisons over the use and distribution of pot; however, to make it completely legal, allowing marijuana bars/cafes, like in Amsterdam, to be set up all over the country, that would be a problem. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 11:01:31 PM |
Hmm, let me go check the thread title again...yep, I was right...it says "marijuana", not "heroin". So what are you saying? All drugs should be legal? the only reason you have crime related to it is the profit,all drugs used to be legal.For starters its regulated in modern times like alcohol are cigarettes,a war on drug and the money spent goes beyond this thread,its all related.You clearly and ignorantly stated one needs to do the drug if they are to talk of the drug as state opinion as what to do,if not,among a list of things then they are hypocrites,your words not mine,I just pointed out how ignorant that was.
LOL..."it" also was the direct reason we now have NASCAR...for some reason though, I seem to be drawing a distinction between an organized crime outfit and a highly regulated sports industry.
are you daft,NASCAR is not a criminal enterprise,so your saying that well we got the MAFIA from it but look on the bright side,shine runners started pro racing.this clearly, if you read it, explained how no prohibition of any type ever worked in fact when ever put into effect it blossomed illegal enterprises,heck it almost established all the Mexican border towns for prostitution and booze.If you think the war on drugs is not connected to all these things your not thinking correctly.Prohibition on marijuana has the same effect as booze.
Yeah, that's pretty typical for a liberal...blame the purporters of laws and law enforcement rather than the perpertrators of the crimes. Okay, okay...let's just legalize it all...as long as your on board to be held criminally and financially liable for whatever increase in crime is a result...deal? Yeah, didn't think so... there you go with ignorant statements again,I already stated the fight is a horrible waste of good police time,valuable jail space,and 100s of billions of dollars,you tell why such laws are still in effect,as long as we have ones like you,that have twisted thoughts like you,it will all stay illegal,and we will break our country financially and gangs here only expand because its illegal and has tremendous money value and will continue to ruin our once good way of life,after all the money buys more UZIs and Glocks.As for held liable,this is ones personal choice,you ever heard of drinkin and drivin laws,don't hold me liable because some adult gave no concern to the safety of others and drove drunk or drove higher than a kite.You act like laws cannot be followed by those over 18,will some still do a DUI,yes.You also forget to learn from history as to why marijuana is illegal in the first place and no where in history does it have anything to do with it being a party favor.You are the typical out of reach,narrow sighted,closed minded,person with blinders on as to why we waste 100s of Billions on a lost cause,sir,I'm starting to think your a conservative republican with such bad for the country thoughts,after all it was their logic and majority control for the last 20 years that got us here ,the country in ruin and also got us here on the drug war. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 11:23:11 PM |
however, to make it completely legal, allowing marijuana bars/cafes, like in Amsterdam, to be set up all over the country, that would be a problem. agreed with 85% of what you said,it was current and informed,I do though disagree on this point ,I believe it would be just like bars with alcohol ,just as a bar cannot let you drink till your in the ozone,same would apply for pot.Mexico has just made personal use pot legal in small amounts realizing its not worth the billions to fight something so petty where as the money is better spent going after the kingpins that lop off heads and the problem is actually in Meth and hards drugs like it.Hey take the value off this stuff and people do not lop off heads.They also tired of us having the gall to tell them how to live,basically they flipped us off,good for them !
In Oregon a cop would dump out your bag in front of your eyes just to piss you off ,he'd have a sly smirk on his face,then tell you to run along and stay out of trouble,here in Arizona a bag would get you a criminal record,and maybe a year in jail,depending on the judge.I'm a good boy as an adult but sure did partake in pot alot many many many years ago.Thats why I know its a nothing drug,in fact making it illegal is a joke,that is if the law did not ruin so many lives.The law have nothing to do with your health otherwise chocolate chip cookies and deserts would get you a year in the pen if this was about personal health,as if big brother is looking out for us,nonsense,The War on drugs is mad mad money,you can run small countries on the money we spend on the drug war. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/2/2009 11:31:42 PM | the biggest problem with drug policy in the US is we are so inundated with decades of misinformation that most people (as we can see in these posts) have no idea what the issues are.
I completely agree with this. But I wanted to add something. This is the very same thing that is currently happening with the gun issue as well. At least in terms of the people trying to make them illegal. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/3/2009 5:08:48 AM | Fisrt off the concept of pot cafes wouldn't get off the ground because we have many states that already have legislation prohibiting smoking inside of workplaces.
As you can see you're already messed up moreso in the states where a person can own his business but can't smoke there, way to go defending his rights to ownership.
You would see an increase in cafes that served food or baked goods and most likely would be next to movie theatres.
We could convert many tobacco farmers to hemp which isn't usefull to smoke thus creating some competition for cotton. The off shoots would be many, paper products (sustainable,preservative free), oils (cooking and fuel), fabric, even construction products (insulation, particle board).
Currently all of this is legal but only in its finished form, a product that used to be mandatory in the early days of the US.
No one here is saying to dismantle the DEA but their focus could better spent fighting drugs like excstacy, heroin etc knowing that those corner drug dealers were no longer selling pot.
Most pot smokers have absolutely no issue with sharing the laws that now prohibit driving while under the influence, you see unlike those beer commercials that show people enjoying the outdoors or sports with their budweisers they ARE actually outdoors enjoying sports and the outdoors.
I imagine that you would see a great explosion in holistic medicine, like other posters have mentioned weed can easily be substituted for many common pharm drugs and have much less harmful long term effects.
And this goes out to the nascar lovers or sunday football types. If you skipped all the budweisers and smoked a bit more pot you wouldn't be in need of chemicals to attain a hardon, seems the only one you easily attain is the one for pot smokers. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:38:58 AM |
hard core drug users get incarcerated all the time. hello. reality calling. possession is a CRIME
They have what is known as "safe houses" for illegal drug use. Gov't sponsored, clean needles. No ID required. It'd be pretty simple to make the odd arrset right there for "possession", now wouldn't it? But do they? No. I would suggest that the persons who DO get busted for "simple possession" either pleaded down form a more serious crime, OR threw an attitude at the authorities and earned their own incarceration.
Also, enforced rehab is NOT an option used here, because it violates the persons rights.
The whole point I was trying to make was that ONE "small illegal act" can, and often does to further illegal acts. Not always. OF course not. But often enough. Someone toking up a bit after work to "relieve the stresses of the day" is an illegal act. Who does it harm? Probably nobody. (Except for the whole idea of smoking anyways...but let's set that bit aside for now.) Ok....said guy gets tired of paying for good weed and decides to grow his own. Another illegal act. He finds he has a bit of surplus, and decides to sell a bit off to "friends", or perhaps just give it away. Again...another illegal act. All from some guy just wanting to relax a bit after work. See how easy it gets worse and worse?
Then, get into the ones who want to get totally blitzed. Mix a bit of hash oil into the pot, or smear some on the papers. Where they getting the oil? I've see vials of that stuff with white streaks of another drug swirled into it. "Ahhh....that won't hurt ya...but it'll be a great toke!". Surrrrre....
Justifying behaviour patterns is a great little passtime for anyone with a drug habit. Or a booze habit. Or cigs. They can justify their actions to themselves and cannot understand when others object. Even to the point of justifying illegal acts, not only to themselves but their immmediate peer group.
Perhaps by keeping "legal" actions, (like drinking alcohol, but NOT to the point of public intoxication) and smoking a cig (where legal) out of the discussion at all would help.
They ARE legal. Pot isn't. Comparing the two doesn't add up quite right.
Some places already have "booze and work" rules. Drinking on the job can mean immediate dismissal in some places. Try lighting up a cig in your work place...see what happens. This "protects" the others in the workplace. Would we see a lot of people failing a breathalyzer test when they show up for their shift at work? Probably for the first two days...then they'd simply stop drinking before work. Unless they want to get their butts fired.
I've seen drug use at work and it is far harder to prove that....except for some cases of work performance. Would I trust some stoner in the workplace who is high? No. I don't. No more so than I'd be trusting someone who was drunk!
As soon as they have a roadside test for drugs, such as they have for booze, I can see them legalizing pot. It is simply a matter of time. Even the big drug companies cannot offer the gov't more money to keep pot illegal.
As far as hemp is concerned....so far the lobbyists for wood pulp (paper) and cotton, etc have done a rather fair job of keeping it out of the marketplace as a viable crop. Fuel from it certainly wouldn't go much further (if as far as) the current crops used for making alternative fuels. Rope? There are better alternatives already in place for that.
I see a lot of posters stating that some of us "don't know the issues". Well...some of us do. Some of us see more the social issues involved (which directly concern us) as opposed to the monetary and "power" issues which "could" affect our lifestyles, but not as directly as some of the social issues. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/3/2009 9:33:58 AM | | For what it's worth, I did some searches from the ADA, AHA, and CDC, and found the following... Tobacco kills about half a million of us per year, Alcohol kills slightly less than that, and all illegal drugs put together kill twenty thousand per year. Legally speaking, is this the best we can do? Morally speaking, it sounds like we are straining at a gnat while swallowing TWO camels. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/3/2009 10:10:23 AM | ^^^^^^^Exactly the point!!!!!
Yna6, I smoke pot and am never afraid to admit it. My landlord is a cop who basically says to me try not to broadcast it in front of the neighbourhood kids and we're cool. As far as work performance, yes I agree that there those that just aren't meant to smoke and do anything, on weekend projects, say putting up a deck or a new roof for someone in the family - we are quite aware of who can and can't put in a full day.
It just seems that this blending of all drugs into a one big mess is so misleading, very often in these forums people continuously point out dangerous or useless it is to generalize. As a former bartender I can assure you that there many that drink to get drunk but moreso that can socially get to a pint where they are just having fun.
To group all these people into one group isn't fair so where does the line end?
The criminal justice system has become just another corporate giant that feeds off the fear that is becoming very common in how you are governing these days. Many small towns are finding out the hard way that judges are just as weak and will take the money to help fill the cells, be they teens going to detention centres right up to the state pens.
As far as the pharm corps, I don't believe they are as involved as you would think.
They have no desire to eliminate all drugs because they use derivitives of them all the time, cocaine codiene heeoin, morphine will never go away.
Just think if you could put all those billiouns into something else and I don't mean paying off the bush fiasco or wall street. The needs of the public school systems would taken care of in a heartbeat. That improvement alone would give kids something better to than steal their dads beer or get high for lack of anything better to do.
This quest for good citizens has gotten completely warped and because of that the tendancies are to make better bandaids instead giving many of us something batter to focus on.
You will never eliminate vice. Always has been here and always will be, just human nature that there will be those kinds but the current system is not teaching our kids anything. It has just caused a mistrust of those who should be looking out for us, namely cops.
His major complaint about his job is dealing with drunks.
Wugder, what I believe yna6 is referring to is the exchange houses (needles) and others that allow drug users to do what they gotta do off the streets.
This is response to the spread of aids among needles shares but also a way to keep the sities from being littered with people just getting high all over the place. Appearances are everything, just ask the homeless in Vancouver.
They were removed from any cheap rental by commitee to turn a profit for the olypics and now are being subjected to a new bylaw that states that any and all homeless can be forced into a shelter at any policeman's discretion. They city says this is response to a homeless woman who froze to death last year, the coldest they have has in quite sometime.
I lived there and it usually doesn't get that cold but if you're undernourished or improperly dressed ya never know. | |
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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 49 | |
| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/3/2009 10:30:57 AM | They have what is known as "safe houses" for illegal drug use. Gov't sponsored, clean needles. No ID required. It'd be pretty simple to make the odd arrset right there for "possession", now wouldn't it?
I've been taking illegal drugs of one sort or another most of my adult life. I've never heard of a "safe house". want to fill me in? obviously I've been missing something.
and I know of no states with Govt sponsored clean needle laws.
or did I misunderstand that post? if I didn't, where do people get information like this from? | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 11/3/2009 1:11:29 PM | Canada...Vancouver for one. The States? Probably not as far along socially as Canada is. Wouldn't know about a safe house there.
Most provinces have a needle exchange system. Humanitarian reasons.
I still can't see why the gov't would reduce prices on any drugs if they took control of the growing and distribution networks. They don't in Canada. The licensed growers make a good living at it supplying medical pot. They have to have security systems and such in place and a clean record, etc. They have to grow only a certain amount with a certain potency too. There is better quality out there...but this IS for medical use. | |
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