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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/3/2009 12:45:29 PM |
A separation/divorce is very traumatizing for children because they don´t understand that concept. Do you think the same children, who may be too young to understand the concept of their parent's divorce, would be easilly able to understand the concept of mom and dad begining new relationships, with new people, while still living in the same house?
Children are always innocent and should be protected. You're right.
But, are the innocent children being protected, when mom brings the new boyfriend home to meet dad? Or are they just being exposed to needless drama which they don't deserve to be part of? | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/3/2009 4:54:38 PM |
Let me ask you-n have you ever been in this situation?? I have and instead of judging- be open minded.
This is a fallacy: to have to be the victim first-hand before holding an opinion. For example, I'm not going to become a crack fiend before coming to the conclusion that smoking crack is a lousy idea.
I have been in this situation due to a stubborn ex and having kids. The marriage was over and no chance at all of ever getting back together.
Wow - kids are in the middle of this. Really, I'd say something clever, but it just wouldn't be appropriate in this situation.
Stop being small minded- life is about taking risks especially in relationships.
If you want to live that way, fine. But the last thing that I want to do is put risk into the relationship. For example, I like to use protection when having sex, though it sure is more *risky* not to. Why? Risk is always fun - until you lose.
In the perfect world, everyone would be divorced before starting new relationships and have the money, means and support to start over on our own.
Wow, I must live in the perfect world because that is exactly what I did.
Look, I'm not saying that people who are separated should be *legally banned* from having a relationship. If they want to and find someone who shares the same mindset, then they should be allowed to do what they like. However, what I am saying is:
1) I personally have no interest in dating someone who is separated, mostly due to what I experienced during my separation and hearing other stories on the boards from people who have been in relationship with separated people. Also, I did have a chance to think it over, and I just don't like married people. Just because someone thinks that being separated is single doesn't make that the case - you're still legally married. And as much as you say you're going through the process of divorced, you can say you're divorced. I would agree that if it was the case that I just woke up one morning and came to this conclusion based off of nothing, it would be short-sighted. However, that just not the case.
2) From reading other people's posts on dating separated people, it sounds like I'm not the only one that went through everything noted in paragraph (1).
3) As free people, we are allowed to make the decisions I desire. Thus, just like you're allowed to date while separated, I'm allowed not to choose to date separated people. Just like I allowed to choose not to date people who take drugs or message for intimate encounters.
4) I usually recommend that separated people do not date due to paragraphs (1) through (3), not because of any morality. What am I saying here? Separated people can do what they want, no doubt. However, they've got to also understand the population of men/women that are available to them is going to be severely limited because they believe what is stated in paragraphs (1) through (3). It is just a fact - otherwise there wouldn't be the outrage about people not dating separated people. If only one or two people were doing it, then there's no reason to be upset. So chances are your best bet of finding someone special probably aren't going to occur until you're divorced. That is all that I'm trying to say.
I wish for you the best. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/3/2009 9:00:31 PM |
It must be gratifying to be able to see everything as black and white like that - life must be so simple to know all the answers and to be able to pigeonhole everyone
Oh, no no no no. I'm not a "pigeonholer" any more than 99.999% of the population, and most likely yourself included, actually. By your rationale, breaking something down in black & white for one thing means you do it to everyone about everything. Yah, right.
Example: Saying no to someone trying to pursue a -relationship- with someone who is happily married but wants a serious side relationship "pigeonholing"? If so, then I think we're all pigeonholers. We're seeing it black and white! Life must be so simple for all of us to know all the answers to be able to pigeonhole everyone (since it's just one case, right?). How rude and stereotypical we are for that flaky assumption that they shouldn't pursue a relationship with a happily married person! And in all honesty, technically, it COULD work out with not too much drama. ULTRA ULTRA low % chance in this example, but COULD.... so that means you give every option a shot, right? ;)
In the example of someone separated & still living together -- technically, yes, a very low % that something healthy could develop upon genuinely dating them with no huge obstacles. But which side would win in a 7 game series with the "it'll be just fine!" given a 2 game lead to start off? Not the "it'll just be fine!".
One guy said it best at the top of this page. Have them meet the person you're living with -- if they can't do that, there's too much drama. There can be a babysitter, so the kids don't have to be there... the guy could come over not "as the boyfriend" in front of the kids. It's not like all adults are banned from a household.
If they could do that, MAYBE. Is it worth signing up for? Uhh, no. People who aren't in datable situations shouldn't cry out to strangers online to give them a shot for genuine dating. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/3/2009 9:20:51 PM | These are not parallel situations... and you are the one that was using the words ALWAYS, ANY, and so forth.
Basically, you wrote it as:
- it is ALWAYS the case that someone's exaggerating in these situations, that you can't take their word for it
- It is ABSOLUTELY NOT worth pursuing if you have ANY expectations of a serious relationship.
Now, though, you're at least saying "low percentage" etc... Still, your "happily married and wants a serious side relationship" - yeah, that might be a way of saying there ARE situations where there could be an absolute answer.
However, it's irrelevant to this thread - it's completely unrelated. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 4:47:47 AM | NotEvlis,
It must be gratifying to be able to see everything as black and white like that - life must be so simple to know all the answers and to be able to pigeonhole everyone.
Look who said "ALL THE ANSWERS". :) So for someone making an absolute statement, you retort by making an even greater one, then say....
and you are the one that was using the words ALWAYS, ANY, and so forth.
Tsk tsk.
Yes, I made an absolute statement, and my 2nd post points out that TECHNICALLY pretty much any situation COULD have some crazy exception that makes the history books... so let's rules those out.
For it being ALWAYS the case that people will exaggerate, you fail to point out that that was not my main point of judgement on the topic, as I point out that even if their situation isn't that bad (see, I wasn't blanketingly demonizing situations folks like yourself are/have been in.).
So on the point of exaggeration -- hell yes. But let me make myself more clear. When they come across that their situation is just fine and pretty normal and "oh yes" they're ready for a relationship, etc. -- that is where I place the absolutism of SOME form of exaggeration, conscious or otherwise. And that's saying it lightly. :)
As far as one ABSOLUTELY NOT chase some new stranger who's separated & living with their wife/husband with a near-future relationship in mind? Are you kidding me? That is not too far off from that someone else being someone you've known for years but who's also married with content but wants a side relationship.
The reason I verablize it at such absolutes (and rid of the slight oddball %) is because if you tell someone who WANTS something to be true/okay/its-worth-it/etc, and there's a 99% chance it's NOT... to them, it will seem like a 50-50 shot when it comes down to it. It's "a chance", and they'll waste their time. Hence, "ABSOLUTELY NOT". | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:18:40 AM | | I too met someone in the same situation, and one of the first times we met, I was introduced to his wife and my mind was put at ease to the situation. We are still dating and have a wonderful relationship. We all get along and the reason they stayed in the same house was for their son's best interest. If you find you have a connection and want to pursue the relationship, give him the benefit of the doubt and you may be as fortunate as I was. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:01:44 AM | The bottom line is that someone in that situation is not past the last relationship - and so shouldn't be starting a new one. Unless everyone is so ok with it that you can go over there for dinner, and even then - the arrangement they are puts dating on the back burner.
Basically, it's this attitude of instant gratification where someone is in a situation where they should be focusing on other things, but won't put off dating because they selfishly think they deserve to date (NOW!) while still married (which is what separation is, a trial period before divorce). | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:41:32 AM | | NO!.. run...and you might also get the excuses we are living together ONLY becuase of the kids or finances. I have not been back dating long , But have had 2 guys already same deal, although kuddo's to yours for telling you prior to going out rather then at the end of the date.. Good Luck.. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:47:38 AM | | I totally disagree, It is not healthy to stay in the same home for the sake of the kids, that is not showing children what a real marriage is . Kids learn from what they see, mommy & daddy not talking . or showing any love towards one another and even worse hearing fighting, No not healthy. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:55:45 AM |
I totally disagree,
Allmygirl2009, in your head you know the post you're replying to. But the rest of us have no clue which of the 80+ previous posts has you in a dander. Eventually we could work it out, but that seems too much trouble. I could take your advice and run! , but that seems a poor way to deal with things. The quote feature is our friend, unless you're responding to the first post in a thread you should learn it, love it. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:58:25 AM | | I'd probably be a bit dubious also. He might be a "nice guy" to chat with, but you'd be dating a married man who lives under the same roof with his wife -- perhaps they really are getting a divorce and they're living together until all the paperwork is sorted out. You could say you'd be interested in meeting him once he and his wife are no longer living together. Go with YOUR gut feelings. Good Luck! | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:09:11 AM |
Basically, it's this attitude of instant gratification where someone is in a situation where they should be focusing on other things, but won't put off dating because they selfishly think they deserve to date (NOW!) I'll agree that this behavior is selfish.
But, I'll expand on that to say that it's also insecure as well as selfish.
Many of these people don't feel secure enough to leave their current marriage or domesmetic situation, until they find another one they can immediately (and selfishly) jump into.
I know that I'd certainly prefer to date a single woman. Rather than the insecure woman who's hanging onto her husband, until someone else comes along to let her move in.
Aside from the needless drama that dating such a person would cause, one of my biggest fears would be that this woman, who was too scared and dependant to leave her husbad she no longer loved, would immediately become too dependant on me. Such a person, apparently unable to live on there own, is likely looking for the next person who they can immediately move in with. Then, if things don't work out with that next person, the next person won't be able to get rid of them very easilly either. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 12:44:34 PM | How is it being a victim??? Everyone's situation is different and unless you are in that situation, you have NO idea how you would react or handle it.
I was amazed that my ex's girlfriend accepted the situation and did ask him whether or not she minded?? But I suppose for her he went to her's.
Good for you that you were able to do that- again not everyone is able to do that.
People should be able to post their opinions to a question without others having to pick them apart or be sarcastic.
Each situation should be judged on it's own merits and yes if there are kids involved- extra care and thought is needed.
Life is about living and also learning from the experiences we go through. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/4/2009 9:54:26 PM | Confident-Realist wrote:
It must be gratifying to be able to see everything as black and white like that - life must be so simple to know all the answers and to be able to pigeonhole everyone. Look who said "ALL THE ANSWERS". :) So for someone making an absolute statement, you retort by making an even greater one, then say....
Yes, I did, but it's not because I believe in that sort of thing - rather I was mocking the fact that you do. Or appeared to; your subsequent posts seem to say differently.
Confident-Realist wrote:
But let me make myself more clear. When they come across that their situation is just fine and pretty normal and "oh yes" they're ready for a relationship, etc. -- that is where I place the absolutism of SOME form of exaggeration, conscious or otherwise.
But no different than anyone else anywhere, anytime, whether they're separated or not. You can't judge emotional preparedness based on living situation. I mean, you can go ahead and do so, you just don't have any greater chance of accuracy.
Confident-Realist wrote:
As far as one ABSOLUTELY NOT chase some new stranger who's separated & living with their wife/husband with a near-future relationship in mind? Are you kidding me? That is not too far off from that someone else being someone you've known for years but who's also married with content but wants a side relationship.
Are you kidding? There's no similarity. In fact, it might be safe to say you're more likely to run into that with someone who is NOT married, separated, living together, or what have you because they have no legal nor logistical ties - they can string multiple partners along without fear of discovery.
The separated-and-living-together is putting it out in front right there... | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/5/2009 11:38:13 AM | NotElvis,
But no different than anyone else anywhere, anytime, whether they're separated or not.
Well, yes, separated, recently broken up, still "hang out" with an ex of recent memory, etc. But the topic that these are about are more important (hence more apt to exaggerate) than say "how often do you work out?".
You can't judge emotional preparedness based on living situation.
So you're just calling it "a living situation", huh? OMG. She's definitely considered still your WIFE if you're living with her, separated or not. Why? Because there's no separation! Just because due to financial reasons you can't separate doesn't mean "in spirit we are; trust me, even though I'm a stranger on the internet". Come on. You can say "no but we don't do anything together"... yes, and regular married couples can say the same thing, too. You have to lie in the bed you make -- even if it's allegedly in another room in the house. :)
That is not too far off from that someone else being someone you've known for years but who's also married with content but wants a side relationship.
This quote I made -- no, they are different situations, but let me make myself clear... it's the chances of it being a stupid idea that are the same. And there IS similarity, but I in no way said they were clone situations. Again, point is, they're equally stupid to walk into. Do each have "a chance"? Well, yeah, depends on what you mean... actually, what the married guy means by a "healthy relationship". To *HIM* it's different. In both situations, he's been married and living with a woman, romantically or not, and ANYTHING is healthy to him, because he wants to be in the dating circle. So if you take "healthy relationship" in a relative way, sure, anything could be "healthy".
But if you're LIVING WITH your wife who's a soon-to-be-official-ex, you can't expect ANYONE to assume there are no romantic ties. COME. ON. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/5/2009 11:41:01 AM |
Everyone's situation is different and unless you are in that situation, you have NO idea how you would react or handle it.
Yes, everyone's situation is different... and yours may be better than a lot of others, but that's not the point. The situation itself is not good for dating, nor would someone in that situation be in position to dating someone they just met. Nobody has an obligation to get knee-deep into situations with you while you're living with your Later-than-sooner-to-be-ex-husband to find out if things are "okay" enough. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/5/2009 3:28:30 PM | Got an email message from a cute guy with a great smile. Everything looked super until that I saw that he was seperated.
Returned his email, and stated that I liked his smile, but was not into dating guys that were still married. Thought that would be the end of it.
He sent another email, wrote that I was closed minded for rejecting him on that basis, without knowing the details. Seems he was staying with his wife for "medical insurance reasons."
Sent him a so sorry for about your health problem email. Again complimented his smile, but really wanted to focus on men that were available.
Even when ex's don't live together, they sometimes still hook up for sex after picking up or dropping the kids off. Most people get divorced for other than sexual reasons. The familiar sex was the best part of thier relationship.
Trust me he is still doing his wife, telling her they're trying to work it out, sleeping in the same bed every night. Just wait until you find a truly available man. | |
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DJ-78
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Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 93 | |
| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/5/2009 3:50:45 PM | What I don't get is why if a person chooses not to get involved with someone who is seperated all of a sudden they become the bad guy?
I'm 100% single...no convulted situation with the ex. If I wanted to get married tommorow...I could. When you're seperated you're still wrapping up unresolved business where I as the 100% single person am not. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:41:25 AM | This is what I wrote on a similar thread...this goes for separated women too:
I feel that a person should get their life together, not be living with their WIFE, get the divorce, get a place to live without a WIFE, before trying to date. It's easy to get a divorce, it's not that expensive, it's well worth it, just do it.
I'd never, ever, ever date a guy who was 'separated' (pfft) and living with his wife still. I don't care if it's for insurance, because of money, what have you. Get your sh*t together, completely sever the other relationship before trying to start a new relationship.
Ugh...otherwise, it's just ...gross. Get your act together, stop making excuses (there's a zillion I've read on the forums here), and stop expecting women to pick up the pieces for you. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/6/2009 10:04:57 AM | Once again it really does not matter what the topic you're discussing I find it truly amazing the number of people who feel it is ok to be overly critical about people who obviously do not share their views on life and how things should be.
I propose such an individual would be far happier if they spent as much time on their own "issues" as they spend pointing out the issues they have with other folks! For example ask yourself how does ****ing about how someone else is dating or not fix your dating problem? Even if you're asked out by one of these folks it's easy to say "no thank you" and move on about your business.
I do understand the original post more because it dealt with the question about lying. This is a different point of conversation than most of the responses which lean more to judging other people's dating habits regardless of how honest they are being with those they are dating.
I imagine the more adamant the response the more likely the respondent is desperate and dateless. I also imagine these folks are venting frustrations that steam from more than just this subject matter presented here.
If you have difficulty getting a date or connecting with people it is rarely a singular issue creating this problem. Furthermore contrary to what most think it's not everyone else who is to blame for your situation. Do not kid yourself you got some issues in there somewhere. Just sayin, if you appear or are actually overly angry about the activity of others when you were not a direct participant, "why is that?" is the question you need to ask yourself. Do not hate me but people often do not realize just how negative they are or how it has consumed them until someone points it out.
Absolutely nothing other people do unless your a party to it should really piss you off! You either have too much time or are just bored with your own existence! The good news is you can change this cycle. Sadly the bad news is you are the only one who can affect change in your life.
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:23:13 PM | kingsfan72
I would have to agree with Landra because if he is still living with his wife in the same house and they are getting a divorce then he is still legally married. So this is probably a married man who says that he is getting a divorce but when is that really going to happen? 1 year down the road, several months, or an unknown time frame, don't wait until he gets a divorce or put your life on hold until he leaves his wife. More than likely he has probably just wanted to hook up and keep his wife and have you too. IF I where a woman I would definitely avoid this married man unless you are the type who doesn't care whether he's married or not and looking just to hook up with him. Separated means still married and the only time I would suggest that you meet him is when he gets rid of his wife and shows you the divorce papers to verify that he is a single man. Even if he was single then there the question of that if he is still living with his wife that he might just want a mistress on the side to hook up with. I would not waste your time with him and move to someone who is single. You'll find the right man just keep on fishing.  | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:28:30 PM |
Once again it really does not matter what the topic you're discussing I find it truly amazing the number of people who feel it is ok to be overly critical about people who obviously do not share their views on life and how things should be.
Blah...blah...blah...whine...whine...whine. If someone is in an f'ed up situation like this, I have to pieces of advice: Get a divorce. Get your life on track.
Guys who are "separated" and still living with wifey get mad because people aren't agreeing with them. Why should a woman accept a messed up situation like this? What do you have to offer? "Let's go home to my place...be quiet, my wife is sleeping. But yeah, we're really just roomates" Ooh, sign me up.
If you're married and live with your wife, any woman with an ounce of self esteem and half a brain would not buy into your bs. Men and women who are "separated" but living with their spouse: Get your act together. Don't whine, don't make excuses, you're still married. A woman/man who is looking for a man/woman with whom a future can be built together won't go for a person with a spouse at home. A woman/man just looking for a fling...? Well, there's no accounting for taste is there?
Sadly the bad news is you are the only one who can affect change in your life.
Why don't you take your own good advice? "Physician, heal thyself" | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/6/2009 5:09:25 PM |
How is it being a victim???
I was answering one of your earlier posts, which highlighted:
I have been in this situation due to a stubborn ex and having kids. The marriage was over and no chance at all of ever getting back together.
and,
In the perfect world, everyone would be divorced before starting new relationships and have the money, means and support to start over on our own.
Thus, what you are noting is that you are apparently a victim of your circumstance, right? After all, you're noting that you are not "in a perfect world" due to these circumstances. And you know what? Everyone is going to be the victim until you're willing to change the situation.
Life is about living and also learning from the experiences we go through.
And I agree with this as well. The thing is this - many of us have lived in these situations are learned from them, and this is not a closed-minded situation where we have never walked in those shoes, so to speak:
1) When I was separated (and living by myself), I didn't date.
2) After I was divorced and had a live-in girlfriend with her kids, when the relationship ended, I didn't date. Though I no longer wanted to date her, I knew that would be just messed up to be dating another woman in front of her kids. Besides, it was just a messed up dynamic to bring another women into that kind of household.
Thus, I'm not trying to practice any holier than though approach - (a) it is a practice that I have lived and (b) I fully believe that people should live the way that they want. However, as I noted in my prior post, people just have to realize that there is a segment of the single and divorced population that just won't date separated people. I hope everyone finds happiness and I wish everyone the best, but realize that at the end of the day you have to live in the real world. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/6/2009 6:05:39 PM | ^^^Right on Sun Devil. Hear hear! *clapping*
What's wrong with taking some time out after a divorce/separation to get your head on straight? After my divorce, I didn't date for two years, until I felt ready. I traveled, had friend fun, took care of myself. People who rush to 'replace' mates after separation are wrong, wrong, wrong. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 2:00:52 PM | Confident Realist wrote:
This quote I made -- no, they are different situations, but let me make myself clear... it's the chances of it being a stupid idea that are the same.
That is what I assumed you meant. And that is what I disagree with, along with the following statement.
Confident Realist wrote:
Again, point is, they're equally stupid to walk into.
Confident Realist wrote:
But if you're LIVING WITH your wife who's a soon-to-be-official-ex, you can't expect ANYONE to assume there are no romantic ties. COME. ON.
DJ-78 wrote:
What I don't get is why if a person chooses not to get involved with someone who is seperated all of a sudden they become the bad guy?
They aren't because of that specifically. They are a "bad guy" if they're making assumptions about the separated person.
For example, just before your post, it was written by misszmsz that:
Even when ex's don't live together, they sometimes still hook up for sex after picking up or dropping the kids off....
Trust me he is still doing his wife, telling her they're trying to work it out, sleeping in the same bed every night.
Add then Confident Realist's view that:
But if you're LIVING WITH your wife who's a soon-to-be-official-ex, you can't expect ANYONE to assume there are no romantic ties. COME. ON.
THESE seem to be the predominant attitudes. THESE assumptions are, also, in my estimation, likely to be FAR less likely than most people assume of separated couples. THESE attitudes what makes the person choosing not to get involved with a separated person "the bad guy" . . . the fact that they automatically decide that separated equals "still screwing the ex, or very likely to, and definitely just using me for a rebound rather than any potential for a serious relationship."
Now, if there's other reasons, that'll be different. Sun Devil's brought up his own personal experiences, and I'm actually fine with that - basically, if I understand it, he won't date while he himself is in a "separated" situation, and won't date those who're in that situation themselves.
But the automatic assumption of "oh, there's convenient sex right there" excuse is just, it seems to me, projecting one's own dysfunction and neuroses on someone else. It may be right for any particular person, it may be wrong, but the fact that they're separated doesn't make it any different than for a single person who has been in a previous relationship.
UNLESS, of course, people who "won't do separated on the basis of they're still having sex" think that one must have ZERO contact with ANYONE they've dated or had a relationship with before.... is that the running assumption here? An "I won't touch you unless you cut off any and all contact with any and all exes" kind of thing?
Look, ultimately, my view basically boils down to the fact that telling oneself that avoiding a separated person is somehow "safer," somehow avoiding potential problems with the relationship or avoiding a non-serious relationship, or avoiding a person who is not ready... those are nothing more than assumptions, and ones that are self-illusory at best. A way of telling oneself that you've dodged a bullet and that the "divorced" or "single" guy is definitely 100% the safer bet. It isn't, but it's comforting to tell oneself that it is.
COULD there be problems lurking? Sure. Are the chances any greater than with anyone else? Probably not. | |
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