| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 3:17:14 PM | Legally speaking:
separated = still married. period. The emotional relationship may be over but you are still legally married to that person and not free to enter into a new marriage with a new person.
According to the IRS, there are only a few ways to represent yourself on your tax returns.
There are:
Married, filing jointly
Married, filing separately
Single
Head of Household
Until you are fully and finally divorced, you HAVE to file your taxes as married so why should you be able to represent yourself differently in the dating world? "Individuals are considered married if they were legally married and not legally separated under a decree of divorce as of the last day of the tax year."---IRS website
If I'm hoping to meet someone I click with and want to get married myself eventually, why the heck would I waste my time with someone who was still married to someone else? I want to meet someone who is free to enter into a new marriage if that's where the relationship leads so I avoid separated men. End the first relationship fully and then talk to me. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 4:18:58 PM | The whole IRS thing is a sort of silly argument, isn't it? As is the legal aspect?
I mean, in all honesty, HOW fast did you want to marry the guy that you meet? Is the pending divorce really THAT much of an obstacle to your desire to marry the guy? You did say "eventually" after all . . which I assume doesn't mean "within 6 months of meeting the guy" | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 5:40:27 PM |
I mean, in all honesty, HOW fast did you want to marry the guy that you meet? Is the pending divorce really THAT much of an obstacle to your desire to marry the guy? You did say "eventually" after all . . which I assume doesn't mean "within 6 months of meeting the guy"
The thing is this: just as you bring this question forward, we also say to ourselves, "I mean, in all honesty, HOW fast did you want to date the guy/gal that is going through a separation?" We're not saying that they are the dregs of society - all we are saying is that we if we think that there is one that might be a good match, we may wait until they are divorced.
And as for her government argument, I think what she is meaning is usually as a society we take the lead on how the government perceives us. In the case for separation, they see them as married because, well legally, you are still married. You may feel that it is silly, but many don't naturally. It is the "Miracle on 34th Street" reasoning, I suppose.
And that is the thing - to pretend that a segment of society doesn't see it this way is a silly onto itself. I mean, some people like tall people, some short, some thin, and some not - we all have criteria that we judge others. At least with this position (being separated is being married) it has reasoning that is backed by the government. At the end of the day, I don't see us arguing away a position if for that reason alone - one may not agree with the reasoning, but the basis is still there.
Can separated people get into lasting relationships with other people besides their spouse? Sure. However, when it comes to dating separated people, each person is going to:
1) Judge the criteria versus the scruples that they live. Personally, I just can't bring myself to date a married person. And "legally" when you are separated, you're still married. I want a clean break before I go out with a woman - and I don't want any qualifiers out there as for the status of marriage. If that makes me a weaker person, fine.
2) Judge our situation versus our own experiences. Some of us have dated separated people and it just ended bad. I've never experienced this but rummaging through the boards. (I'm pretty sure you'll find under the search criteria "separated" enough threads that go into gory detail prior relationship) Others remember how lousy we felt and what mindset we had when we were separated, and once the separation ended how fast we wanted to leave that in our rearview mirror. If I gave the impression in prior posts that what I was stating was scientific fact and not just my own experience, I'll apologize for that now.
3) Judge versus how society views the situation. I think this might be the one you are arguing the most - and in some way I can agree with you of sorts; the government is not the most efficient organization in the world. However, note we are talking about a position that the government perceives separation, and in reality it is no big surprise since the whole term of separation is "being married, no longer in a relationship, but have not obtained a divorce decree." Actually, after thinking about it some more, I'll say that I agree with you on this one - but only in the sense that I don't do anything just because society perceives it that way. My reasoning for not wanting to date separated people is due to the first two reasons.
Thus with the criteria above, each day some people are going to perceive the option of dating separated people as non-existant. Do we think separated people are evil? Heck no. It's just that we don't want to date them. Should a separated person be allowed to date another person? Sure. However, just keep in mind that the "fishing pond" is going to be significantly drained due to the criteria above, and the "rainy season" isn't going to happen until you have that little divorce decree in your hand.
Happy fishing! | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 7:00:10 PM | I think it's entirely up to the person. You can judge it for yourself and your own life, but it's a waste of time trying to make such judgments about other peoples situations. Just grandstanding. Whoopee! Look at how right I am!
I'm in the separated category. I haven't been intimate with my wife in what will soon be approaching two years. We've gone through all the emotional pain of such a split. We've even reached a new level of care and respect for each other, though have zero intention of getting back together. We've been openly separated for about a year and a half. We've worked through all the financial/commodity stuff to the T.
Guess what though? We have a home and 6 acres of unique property that needs to be sold, and we need the housing market to stabilize and begin to improve to sell out of an already small market for our home and property. A TON is at stake for both of us. There was also an insurance/operation that needed to be taken care of this fall for my stepson on my insurance policy.
Do I stop living my life? Do I not pursue love if it should knock on my door?
I'm fine with the notion of people not wanting to get themselves involved with such a situation. By all means live by your own behavioral codes. But don't be so pretentious as to suggest that such behavioral codes apply to me. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:28:23 PM | I really don't think the legal or tax aspects are silly. Both demonstrate that you are still tied to your former partner.
I just want to meet someone who is free to enter into a new relationship fully. If a man has not extricated himself completely from his previous relationship (marriage or otherwise), I'm not interested. I'm not looking to meet someone and elope immediately but I know how long it takes to pick up the pieces after a divorce, particularly in a community property state like mine. So waiting for someone to complete a divorce and then complete the recovery process is not that great of an option. It wouldn't be waiting 6 months, it would be waiting 3-4 years before it's even an option. That's assuming that the divorce is actually moving forward. After reading some of these boards, it seems that some people are content to remain separated forever and never go through with the divorce even though they claim the marriage has been ended for years. To me, that just seems horribly unfair to the new partner who may wish to get married at some point. But hey, to each his own. As long as both people know what they are getting into......
Several years ago, I discovered that the guy I had just started seeing was married.....though he swore he was about to file for divorce. (He never did) It wasn't a pretty scene. After that, I won't even consider anyone unless they are 100% available....not partially married, not kinda divorced, not somewhat separated. Either never married or 100% divorced. For me, there's just no middle ground. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:34:37 PM | | Yeah you know where some people's priorities are when they start with a laundry list of why they aren't divorced. The bottom line is they aren't ready to be divorced, they have way too much baggage! | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:38:35 PM | That particular instance isn't really a good indicator though - he lied to you from the get-go... or so I think, since it appears that the still-married status came as a surprise to you? (ie: he didn't tell you he was currently separated or still married?)
mixy3106 wrote:
but I know how long it takes to pick up the pieces after a divorce, particularly in a community property state like mine. So waiting for someone to complete a divorce and then complete the recovery process is not that great of an option. It wouldn't be waiting 6 months, it would be waiting 3-4 years before it's even an option.
Uh, I'm not sure I follow - but I don't know how Texas community property laws work. Can you elaborate?
Also, what's the "recovery process"? Is that something that can be legally done after the divorce to go for assets, or am I misinterpreting something?
mixy3106 wrote:
That's assuming that the divorce is actually moving forward. After reading some of these boards, it seems that some people are content to remain separated forever and never go through with the divorce even though they claim the marriage has been ended for years.
This once again assumes someone lying. Which, can happen with anyone. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:23:46 PM | Yeah you know where some people's priorities are when they start with a laundry list of why they aren't divorced. The bottom line is they aren't ready to be divorced, they have way too much baggage!
Oh you mean like I want my stepson (her son) to get the operation he needs, and my soon to be ex-wife to get as much money as possible when our divorce is finalized because in spite of the fact that we're getting a divorce, I care about her. 
Hip-hip-hooray! For all the women revolutionaries. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:50:44 PM |
Oh you mean like I want my stepson (her son) to get the operation he needs, and my soon to be ex-wife to get as much money as possible when our divorce is finalized because in spite of the fact that we're getting a divorce, I care about her.
This still is baggage. Though there is sound reasoning behind such baggage, it is still there. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:09:58 PM | My response to it just being a formality for someone to not be divorced is why they made it a formality to be married; "it's just a piece of paper, it's over except for that" and all. They didn't have to make the marriage official in the beginning either, but they did. Same concept on both ends.
People only seem to ignore the second legal contract, but the first one seemed to have had to happen. *shrug* | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/8/2009 11:16:56 AM | This still is baggage. Though there is sound reasoning behind such baggage, it is still there.
There's ALWAYS baggage there. It's a complete fallacy to think that any relationship begins from zero. It matters not whether you're married, separated, divorced, or single. You're always bringing the past with you into the next relationship. It's part of who you are.
Do you think, for instance, that a situation suddenly changes if you get divorced when you have children, that the other parent isn't ALWAYS going to be in the picture? That's baggage. It doesn't change just because a piece of paper tells you it's different now.
I don't get this perfect world that some people believe in around here. LOL | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/8/2009 3:05:20 PM | There is baggage and there is history, we aren't talking about history when the divorce hasn't taken place and they are still doing things as a married couple. The marriage hasn't ended period.
My point is that I can get just as "picky" as you can about what constitutes baggage. I'll do it right now. A marriage isn't over just because a piece of paper says it is. You can try to parse this distinction between baggage and history all you want. They don't seem any different to me. Are you trying to say that any true love that might blossom between a separated person rather than a divorced person isn't "real" because such a person doesn't have a piece of paper by the state validating such a love? Sounds pretty preposterous to me.
On another note, I've known single and divorced people who have a hell of a lot more baggage/history to contend with than I do. LOL
Period! | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/8/2009 3:12:54 PM | Yup, but if you know someone is still married and not divorced, you have a heads up about the fact that they still have baggage. They still have divorce proceedings and a spouse. My experience and reading the threads, avoid anyone that isn't finished with their divorce. Why fall in love with someone you can't possibly marry? You are asking for baggage and problems. Someone done with the divorce, they have a history. Someone divorced or single you don't have a marriage to deal with...period Personally I think that separated people often are the ones trying to push dating them. Get it over with and then date. Don't expect anyone to have to deal with what you are going through. Finish your business.
lol...that is what the threads are about...you are trying to tell people that it is ok to date someone separated; however, you aren't finished with your marriage. You aren't finished with your divorce. You can't remarry. I can't marry someone that is separated, but I can be with someone divorced. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/8/2009 3:15:41 PM | ^^^We disagree. Let's leave it at that. I'm okay with that. What works for you, works for you, and what works for me, works for me. Let's let people live how they see fit, without imposing our own perspectives upon them.
Fair enough?
Down there:
IMO it's pretty easy to spot the separated people who really are emotionally together, dealing with the separation well, and genuinely ready for something new. There just aren't a whole lot of 'em.
I would tend to agree with you. I think you're right about this. There was a time not too long ago when I was separated but not ready to pursue anything with anyone as of yet if it had come my way (I wasn't looking). I knew this. That time has passed. I'm just caught in a trick situation now (bothe me and my "wife"). I'm still not actively "looking", but I'm not going to turn love from my door if it should knock.
That's all. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/8/2009 3:25:15 PM |
Personally I think that separated people often are the ones trying to push dating them.
That isn't even a matter of opinion, at least on the forums here, but of observable empirical fact. I'm sure that most who are at all inclined to discuss the matter, regardless of where we fall on this, have noticed, if we look at the profiles of posters promoting dating the separated, that it usually says "Separated."
IMO it's pretty easy to spot the separated people who really are emotionally together, dealing with the separation well, and genuinely ready for something new. There just aren't a whole lot of 'em. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:30:40 PM | Or who have been dating while separated.
Out of all this, though, I "get" Sun Devil's points... I really do.
It's the "they're probably going to have sex with their ex-to-be" attitude, as well as, to a lesser extent, the "well, it's not someone who can get married" attitude that I just don't get.
And probably never will.... | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:05:42 PM | | Beleave it or not you may never know what hes going thru. I am not defending him Howeer there might be a reason hes still living under the same roof with his soon to be EX . it can be too costly for him to move out? | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:15:45 PM |
there might be a reason hes still living under the same roof with his soon to be EX There may very well be a reason he's living with his ex.
But, perhaps these people, who still live with their exes, should take care of these reasons, before they start seeking relationships with new people. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:34:35 PM | There may very well be a reason he's living with his ex.
But, perhaps these people, who still live with their exes, should take care of these reasons, before they start seeking relationships with new people.
But perhaps people should just mind their own business. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:51:28 PM | aaamm wrote:
"well, it's not someone who can get married" attitude that I just don't get. It is against the law in all 50 states to get married while married to someone else...yeah, I know news right?
And now you're deliberately being obtuse? The question had already been asked "How soon did you plan on marrying someone after you first meet them?"
I mentioned that I thought 6 months between meeting and getting married seemed too fast. Mixy suggested it's 3-4 years before it's even an option for a separated person.
My divorce took two years. I don't know what percentage take that long. I had been under the impression that the majority took less time than mine. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:19:16 PM | Some things you can't put a time on, but it is a waste to go out with someone that is married because you can fall in love and want to get married. That is what happened to me and had I not been divorced, or he not divorced, we wouldn't be planning it. Instead one of us would still be dealing with spending money on lawyers and courts. Not something I want to have to deal with when dating, and I didn't. So, we are planing a wedding, no divorces have to be planned because we both waited until we had our divorces finished.
And now you're deliberately being obtuse? Nope. Just clarifying that someone is married when they are separated and can't marry someone else. You can't put time limits on anything, you don't know how and when you feel about anything. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/9/2009 6:46:00 AM | But perhaps people should just mind their own business. I certainly wasn't commenting on you specifically when I made my last post.
But, if you don't want people to know your business, or comment on it, perhaps you should just quit posting it on a public forum. | |
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| separated but still living together... to believe or not
Posted: 11/9/2009 7:06:02 AM | I certainly wasn't commenting on you specifically when I made my last post.
But, if you don't want people to know your business, or comment on it, perhaps you should just quit posting it on a public forum.
No. I rather prefer to put judgmental twits in their place one twit at a time. It's a public forum. I have my role to play :) | |
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