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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 10/30/2009 2:12:04 AM | We must understand what the soul is first. It can be related to consciousness or something of that sort. I am not sure it can be proven that is why there is faith.
My input in between the bar...
Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of the spirit, it is a wonder.
But if (the) spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders.
I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home in this poverty."
The Gospel Of Thomas(29) | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:40:05 PM | If you've ever experienced things happening around you that defy explanation as to a physical cause, you might consider a non-physical cause. If the event is, for instance, a light switching on or off by itself, or a faucet turning on or off by itself, or finding your telephones have disconnected from their wall jacks by themselves; now you are compelled to consider an intelligent, though perhaps mischievous, non-physical cause.
Of the non-physical causes, you may consider a deceased friend or relative has come to visit you, a friend or relative who is capable of astral projection has come to visit you, or you have an entity which came with the new house you just bought. Whatever you choose to conclude, you are nevertheless faced with the fact that SOMETHING is keeping company with you. An intelligence without an apparent physical body.
It is activity such as this that has led me to believe without a doubt that we go on after abandoning our bodies. I also believe a great possibility exists that our hereafter destination could be a place of bliss; this to compensate for our earthly life being, in the final tally, when the days of misery and pain are counted, a net negative. | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/5/2009 10:47:45 AM | There isn't concrete proof that the soul exists after death. However, you can research for yourself cases of NDE that have been document throughout the years. There's some logical indication for you. These people are announced "dead" for lack of a better term, on the operating table, they experience everything that goes on in the room- the doctor marking the time of death, family members talking, nurses moving about, and so on... But then they regain consciousness and are able to recount the full experience, including dialogue between hospital staff. How is that possible unless the soul survives death?
Two more phenomenon worth mentioning are out of body experiences and remote viewing. They suggests focus of mind can travel beyond the body's immediate surroundings. There has been various research conducted on remote viewing by the FBI a few decades ago. Ingo Swann (the man who invented a method for remote viewing) came up with a way to train agents to remote view to help find missing persons. The agents sat in a room, without distractions, with a relaxed mind. They were given a set of coordinates that pointed to a specific location on the planet. The agents job was to see this location in the minds eye, then draw it on paper. They had an 80% success rate. Research it yourself.
RV doesn't prove that the soul survives death, but it makes a pretty convincing case that it does IMO | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/5/2009 11:22:39 AM |
However, you can research for yourself cases of NDE that have been document throughout the years. There's some logical indication for you. These people are announced "dead" for lack of a better term, on the operating table, they experience everything that goes on in the room- the doctor marking the time of death, family members talking, nurses moving about, and so on... But then they regain consciousness and are able to recount the full experience, including dialogue between hospital staff. How is that possible unless the soul survives death?
Our brain is surrounded by electrically generated magnetic fields that are the result of the normal day to day neural electrical activity of life. This activity can be measured by an electroencephalograph. It is from the results of the electroencephalograph that clinicians are able to pronounce the “brain death” or not of an individual.
It is known that brain function and tissue remain viable up to 7 minutes after the heart has ceased to function. It is my opinion and that’s all it is “my opinion”, that when the heart stops, the brain instantaneously registers that cessation and goes into shock. In that state of shock, bodily functions/movements cease and we lose that ability; however brain activity is still be occurring albeit on a downward sliding scale. In this state it is entirely within the realms of possibility that if the eyes remained in the open position, at the time of death that images directly in the eyes field are still being relayed to the brain, possibly in flashes and that sounds are also being relayed. At the same time and given the state of shock, there would probably be a jumble of confused electrical cellular discharges/signals between all those billions of neurons stimulating the limbic system and collapsing downwards to nil and brain death.
While all of the above chaos is going on internally, should there be external intervention during the life ending event in the form of cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR), or electric counter shock heart resuscitation, resulting in the restart of the heart, there’s every chance that if any memory is retained of the event, that that recall could well be in the form of voices released from memory or real from the immediate surrounds combined with images in erratically alternating bright light released from memory or real, followed by darkness.
The limbic system is known to be involved in the most vivid of our memories, “emotion”. Wild uncontrolled electrical stimulation of the limbic could well cause the release of random emotional memory images and sounds. This is what some could be recalling of the event on being revived and mistakenly attributing those audio and visual occurrences to an afterlife.
Perhaps more consideration should be given to the nature, in a physical context as to the composition of this essence/spirit/soul entity that is being alluded to. What is it made of? For something to have a physical existence it must have physical substance, it has to be made of molecules, of atoms, of protons and neutrons. Even smell has physically measureable substances; it’s made of molecules and as such, can be empirically proven. But a thought can only exist within a brain; it cannot exist of its own accord outside of the brain as “thought” has no physical form. Ergo something we “think” exists can’t transfer “into reality” as “thought” has no physical contextual animation outside of the brain.
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/5/2009 12:07:44 PM | atargazer1000 nailed it.
You can't prove it.
Not sure I agree with this. I think the odds are against the OP proving it, and no one's done it yet, but that doesn't mean it' can't be done. Each and every day science is finding ways to “prove” things that were never “provable” before.
that can be a hardone to answer but i will answer it in one word
faith
Bwahahaha!!! Faith is exactly the opposite of evidence. Oh, you so funny.
Well, I do know of one way to prove to yourself if souls do exist, you won't be able to tell anyone, but you'll finally know for sure.
You kill yourself.
We don't know that this is true either. Who are you to say that you'd be aware of your “previous life” after suicide?
There is no scientific proof that a soul exists that is accepted by mainstream science. no, there is just no scientific proof.
Quoted for truth. The implication that there's “scientific proof” out there is silly – there is no scientific proof for mainstream science to accept or reject. There's PSEUDOscience, but by definition – pseudoscience isn't science at all.
its like every drop of water on this planet has been here since the world was created.
This isn't true. We're bombarded by meteors & other space debris that introduces new water (and other elements) to our planet all the time... it's constant.
there is a natrual build up of electicity in the body so when you die that lives on.
The post wasn't asking about electricity, it was asking about souls.
if someone wants to believe that their soul goes on forever and it helps them deal with their eventual death, what is wrong with that??
By itself? Nothing. But, if someone's convinced themselves they're (essentially) immortal, they can be convinced to do some very radical things. Flying planes into buildings anyone?
what does it matter with others believe??
There were some people that thought witches were evil, and their “beliefs” allowed them to burn these “witches” at the steak. This belief was so strong, it was embraced by the law of the land. It was legal, and encouraged to do this. These same beliefs allowed for: manifest destiny, the catholic inquisitions, and persecution (death / torture / blacklisting) of many scientists (Copernicus, Galileo, Darwin, Newton, Tycho Brahe, Johannes Kepler, Edmond Halley, Bertrand Russell, William Buckland, Charles Lyell, Louis Agassiz, Adam Sedgewick & Bruno just off the top of my head). Yes, it's off topic, but you asked...
No one can prove a soul exists nor can anyone prove it does not exist.
Not true: re-read stargazer1000's statement. If you define a “soul” in certain ways, you can certainly prove it's existence. The question at hand is – can it be proved that the soul continues existence. And, once again, this depends on how “soul” was defined. Does your energy & matter vanish? Not according to the laws of thermodynamics. Is that energy & matter a “soul”? That depends on how you defined it.
Whatever you choose to conclude, you are nevertheless faced with the fact that SOMETHING is keeping company with you.
No I'm not. I'm compelled to face the fact that I don't understand what caused this phenomenon. There is not proof that it's some intelligent being, therefore it's not a “fact” that it's an intelligent being.
How is that possible unless the soul survives death?
There's a very good reason these are called near death experiences. There is no 100% flawless way for doctors to pronounce people “dead” yet, so they go with other indicators – like heart stoppage. It's quite possible for someone to be pronounced dead, but still have brain activity / fully functional central nervous system. These people have been known to re-start their own hearts, and become “alive” again.
Research it yourself.
I have, this is all bogus. There's no documentation or evidence of this actually happening.
RV doesn't prove that the soul survives death, but it makes a pretty convincing case that it does IMO
That you're even connecting these two non-related events (one of which there's no evidence for), speaks volumes about how rational you are. | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/5/2009 12:27:10 PM | | NerdStatus, it's all bogus? No offense, but you're not authorized to make such a statement. Don't make false claims, cross-check your sources, because the documentation is in fact out there. You're disqualified on the grounds of not being an informed individual. | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/5/2009 12:30:13 PM | | To those questioning whether there is life after death, of if your soul lives forever...What if there was no restriction on how you lived your life today, would it change you?? What if there were restrictions on those that could have life after death..would it change you today and cause you to live differently?? | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/5/2009 3:44:28 PM |
NerdStatus, it's all bogus? No offense, but you're not authorized to make such a statement. Don't make false claims, cross-check your sources, because the documentation is in fact out there. You're disqualified on the grounds of not being an informed individual.
Wait a minute. He has just as much a right to say that ghosts, ESP, souls and space aliens living in the White House is crap as you do to say that it isn't. Back in the 1970s, it was very common for universities to study the paranormal. You had college courses on clairvoyance and people with PhDs doing government-funded studies. All those studies showed was that it's all crap. | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:04:06 PM | All we can do is believe . The soul is who we are , the
state of our soul is shown through our eyes our hearts our deeds
our words our actions.We are our souls the body is only our human
shell.
In other words we never die ........ Jesus said:"He who believes in me,
shall never die........but have everlasting life' sounds good to me........
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:55:36 PM |
NerdStatus, it's all bogus? No offense, but you're not authorized to make such a statement.
1) Who is authorized?
2) When did I say it was all bogus? Answer: I didn't make any such statement. Guess your reading comprehension sucks as much as your misinformed, and totally unfounded opinion (see below).
Don't make false claims
I didn't. I welcome you to support your insinuation that I did.
, cross-check your sources, because the documentation is in fact out there.
I have. I've been researching the supernatural ever since I was a child. I'm certainly open to learning more, what new information can you provide? Feel free to attack my conclusions on their own merit, or cite your own data for your conclusions.
You're disqualified on the grounds of not being an informed individual.
Do you have any data to support your statement? Answer: Nope.
All we can do is believe .
Since there's things I don't believe, your statement is false. The rest of your dribble isn't any evidence at all. Quoting Jesus out of the bible as evidence for his (and heavens) existence is a logical fallacy. It's called circular reasoning:
http://ksuweb.kennesaw.edu/~shagin/logfal-pbc-circular.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:59:38 PM | In Buddhism this phrase is used concerning enlightenment: "When the soul is ready, the Master will come." My advice to anyone pursuing the veracity of spiritual eternal life is to keep an open mind; finally becoming convinced of it will bring great joy to you.
P.S. Religion, churches, nor the Pope play any role in the revelation. | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:02:22 PM | and ^^^^^ what is yours' called geez duhhhhh i dunno????????
The supernatural is just a t.v. show......try not to take it too seriously...
always an | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/7/2009 6:00:39 AM |
I recently talked to the person who believes soul dies too when you die.
At first, I thought it's really stupid idea 'cause I've never doubt about the existence of soul after death in a second for my whole life. But how can I explain or prove my soul is still somewhere even after my current physical form of body doesn't exist?
And what would be the purpose of having to prove this? If it is to assuage your own fears, then there doesn't seem to be a need; when one dies, either their soul lives on, or if the soul does not exist, then the body that defines them is simply...gone. If someone is attempting to prove the existence of a soul, I would suspect that they are trying to do this because they either do not believe in the idea of a soul, or if they do, then they are not embracing their faith. And if someone is attempting to prove that their soul lives on after death to persuade others who do not believe in such tenets, then the attempt would certainly be a futile one. The belief of the existence of a soul is simply that - a belief; and so far in the history of humankind no one has been able to prove or disprove it, just as no one has proven the existence of 'God'. If you have faith in a belief that seems to be beyond scientific proof, then you will feel no need to have to 'prove' anything. After all, a defining factor of faith is "Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence". Attempting to prove - or explain to someone who does not hold the same beliefs - that the soul exists would all be a rather pointless effort. | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:34:47 AM | From the O.P.:
"I recently talked to the person who believes soul dies too when you die."
Over the very long haul I think your friend may be right. All souls eventually are supposed to return to and become one with the Source, although it may take many lifetimes before they loose their affinity with materialism and individualism. Sadly, the disconnection must be realized during earthly incarnation, which is difficult. | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/7/2009 11:40:46 AM | OK.
In order to really determine whether or not a soul/spirit lives on after death, you must first have a concrete definition of what a soul is. If this concrete definition only provides subjective points of reference, you really cannot even 'prove' that a soul exists before death. In such a case, the question is ill formed, and doesn't jibe at all, so it is unanswerable. It becomes more of a play on words than an actual question.
I do not know of any definitions of the term 'soul' or 'spirit' which give physical descriptions separate from the physical description of things that supposedly coincide with, but are separate from a soul/spirit. Those descriptions are not standard, and most standard definitions lack objective points of references, so I would have to say the question is nonsensical. Thought provoking, but not a proper question, which can be given a proper answer... more like rhetoric. | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/7/2009 12:09:47 PM |
2) When did I say it was all bogus? Answer: I didn't make any such statement. Guess your reading comprehension sucks as much as your misinformed, and totally unfounded opinion
Read message 32, it was your own comment. Let me know when you can keep up with your own statements then we'll pick this up another time :)
Wait a minute. He has just as much a right to say that ghosts, ESP, souls and space aliens living in the White House is crap as you do to say that it isn't. Back in the 1970s, it was very common for universities to study the paranormal. You had college courses on clairvoyance and people with PhDs doing government-funded studies. All those studies showed was that it's all crap.
*sighs* I just gave some reasons so that you could come up with your own conclusions. I never made claims like NerdStatus did, where he says "it's all bogus." He's just using loaded language by distorting my side and blowing a lot of smoke as I see it. | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:54:09 PM | "if you really believe this with every part of your being like I believe in God and Jesus then I would counsel you to see someone, a few people, about that... Jesus came back after 3 days and there were many people who witnessed His Life and deaths"
I think most things about the concept of a soul have been covered, however, i find this interesting. this woman follows blind faith. im not going to make a comment of any kind for or against this. personally I'm a rationalist. but those things which we do not yet know, or cannot ever know are unwise to doubt fully or trust blindly.
I always find religious debates interesting because they end the same way, with faith butting heads with rationality. there is some empirical evidence that supports some of the biblical tales, however, they support the overall conclusion that all of religion is simply a set of morality tales. one of the constructs of these tales is the idea of an eternal soul. the only point of a soul is that it represents our intrinsic self. intrinsic selves can exist beyond the extrinsic worth, however, they exist in memory or reputation and, depending on your views, hold no value to a dead person. odds are very good that there is not some magic realm where our intrinsic being goes. odds are good the electricity powering our brain and bodies leaves to mingle. bodies erode, energy can only be dispersed. personally i find that this concept of electrical dispergence is just as lovely as an other worldy afterlife. if you feel that you value how you are viewed beyond your own worldly presence (after you croak), then why not believe in a soul? all it does is guide one towards their construct of a moral life. if you dont care how you are remembered, which is completely valid, then your motivation for being moral is up to you.
A soul, like religion, provides a simple set of moral codes and ethical theories (regardless of their irrationality) and if someone needs a soul to be a good person, i see no reason to panic. | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:21:13 PM | Nate,
You can not prove this. Proofs rely on empirical evidence. There is no empirical evidence for the existence of the soul, its existence relies on Faith.
You confound empiricism with faith; the two are not the same.
I do not disparage empiricism nor faith; I only put forth the premise that they are not the same. Indeed, they rely on different bases for support of truthfulness.
You can "prove" the existence of the soul, on the basis of faith, through rhetorical argumentation.
In order to "prove" the existence of the soul" empirically, you would need tangible evidence. There is none.
Maybe this is because empiricism is yet to evolve to a stage where it can recognize the evidence. Maybe this is because Faith is in a different realm altogether. Who knows? | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:39:47 PM |
Read message 32, it was your own comment. Let me know when you can keep up with your own statements then we'll pick this up another time :)
I stand corrected. But, I still stand by my original statement. All the “scientific evidence” of paranormal / supernatural claims I have read about have fallen apart under peer review = bogus. I further stand by: I'm certainly open to learning more, what new information can you provide? Feel free to attack my conclusions on their own merit, or cite your own data for your conclusions.
I note you've not done this. I presume this is because you can't.
there is some empirical evidence that supports some of the biblical tales
I call BS. Cite your source for this claim. | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:58:40 PM | absolutely there are empirical sources. however, these sources point to the conclusions that biblical tales have simply exaggerated events to weave a morality tale. for instance, there are records of a meteor shower over egypt at the time of the corresponding plague. i personally think that this sint anything special, however, this along with other examples (the sea that 'parted' reaches a low tide every year, low enough for a person to walk across). I suppose i should have said corresponding historical data instead of empirical evidence.
also, this data is generally limited to the logical or reasonable claims made by judeo-christian religious texts. jesus lived, as a person, whether he was anything beyond just some chap with a beard is unknown.
I was simply making the claim that faith is not based in empirically sound claims. the readings, however, are simply events that are translated and woven into a morality tale. rationality requires equal amounts of faith in a theory. look at string theory for instance. its pure theoretical whackyness, but those interested in it are invested in an as yet unprovable concept, similarly, many people have vested their interests into a supernatural realm.
thats all. | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/8/2009 8:08:08 PM | | hi^^^^ my personal experience and Living Truth on the matter plus the works of God through His Witnesses and Servants is more than enough evidence for me to take the bible literally.. having said that the bible clearly shows that the soul ceases to exist upon death .. the soul does not live again until Jesus calls people forth from their graves, either to Eternal Life or to eternal death... the bible says pray that you are among those who are called in the first rising.... blessings | |
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| How can you prove soul exists after death?
Posted: 11/8/2009 8:50:54 PM | Ok, I really think some of you are taking this topic way too deep into your own labcoat. I doubt there exists a mathematical formula that proves souls exist, it's a concept outside math in many ways. You can't used a plus sign and some variables to prove my cake is delicious, you just take a bite and hope I didn't lace it with cyanide or fart into the batter.
I stand by my previous post, if you want to prove to yourself that souls exist after death, then there is one simple way to do just that.
You kill yourself. | |
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