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| Defence lawyers say the stupidest things...
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:44:01 PM | I didn't mean you personally i meant you as in we as a society. I was using my feminine side so you have to forget what words i used and just know what i wanted to say.
There has to be a different plan. The courts want to control you and limit your options for gaining control of your children. They do not want to have the responsibility of raising them themselves. they know that with the restrictions they've imposed it is all but impossible to effectively manage the kids and they don't want yhe inconveience nor the cost. That puts cfs out of the picture for anything other than witch hunts on parents and also dooms any plans of boot camp for kiddies. We just have to get fed up and start breaking any laws they throw at us as the other protesters do. If we make it known we are doing it in protest we are absolved of any crimes before we commit them. You are of french decent so for you it even includes murder as with the flq. The same if you have some mohawk in you as at oka. | |
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| Defence lawyers say the stupidest things...
Posted: 11/6/2009 10:59:54 PM | Perhaps the answer is that since the legal system has no tools to deal with these young offenders, citizens should be given carte blanche to use any means they can to stop the young car thiefs, arsonists, burglars...
Someone is breaking into your house? Use of deadly force is allowed. Someone is setting fire to your garage? Use of deadly force is allowed. Someone is trying to stel your vehicle? Use of deadly force is allowed. | |
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| Defence lawyers say the stupidest things...
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:33:37 PM | | It uswd to be if you caught anyone doing any of those they would flee when confronted. Now we have a system that tells them they will not be punished for their crimes so instead of running they will attack when confronted. If you fight back you will be in nore legal trouble than they are. With all this we still have people either blind enough or stupid enough to want to not only defend the present system but make it even more lenient on the crimminal and harsher on anyone defending their person or property. This liberalism will destroy the planet long before global warming ever could have had it been real. | |
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| Defence lawyers say the stupidest things...
Posted: 11/8/2009 11:51:11 PM |
Now we have a system that tells them they will not be punished for their crimes
And a system thatalso tells the law abiding citizens they shouldn't resist, and should call the police when these situations arise & leave it to them to deal with . Sorry, but if I follow their guidelines & someone is breaking into my place my options are to call 911 ( and wait how long before the police can be dispatched to my residence? ) or escape from my residence & leave it for the criminal to ransack.
Naw, I'll go with Plan B & assume anyone breaking into my place is doing so to kill me, and will take appropriate action against the killer. If he turns out to not be armed, oh well no harm done.
How long would it take for the police to respond to a report of my car being stolen? An hour? Several hours? A couple days? And what if the thief is speeding along in my car & ends up killing someone ( like that cab driver that was killed) ? Knowing I could have stopped the thief but didn't would make me feel guilty; better I use whatever force I deem necessary to stop the thief so he's there for the police to arrest. If he happens to die while I'm stopping him no harm done. | |
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| Defence lawyers say the stupidest things...
Posted: 11/9/2009 2:23:15 AM |
Knowing I could have stopped the thief but didn't would make me feel guilty Peter Parker couldn’t live with the guilt. Are you gonna be Winnipeg’s next super hero?, after all, you already got the cape. | |
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| Defence lawyers say the stupidest things...
Posted: 11/9/2009 8:03:28 AM | | ^^^^ Sadly, no. I was bitten by a spider years ago in BC, but unfortunately it wasn't a radioactive one. Besides, Winnipeg doesn't have enough tall buildings spread over a large enough area for a hero like Spider-Man to work. | |
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| Defence lawyers say the stupidest things...
Posted: 11/9/2009 12:01:05 PM | Well obviously you can’t be Spider Man. I was thinking Super Susan CD, you wouldn’t need tall buildings because one of your super powers could be the ability to fly. You could rid the city of every teenager wearing baggy pants and a crooked ball cap on his head.
Along with the ability to fly, you would fling your stuffed bra at car thieves which would knock them unconscious till police arrived. You could put a pair of panties on every criminal you catch (boxers if they happen to be female), and make sure you leave a card saying “courtesy of your friendly neighborhood cross dresser” . | |
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| Defence lawyers say the stupidest things...
Posted: 11/10/2009 6:28:01 AM | Well there's two less car thieves in the city over the 4-6 weeks. One, a 14 year old girl who was involved with CFS but never apprehended who hung herself in her closet, and the other, her 15 year old friend who had a new born, and CFS involvement again who committed suicide as well, though I'm not sure of how.
Personally, when we have 14 year olds committing suicide, I think that's clear evidence the systems, both justice and CFS aren't working. But I suppose Susan, you're just happy neither girl will be joy riding in your car. | |
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| Defence lawyers say the stupidest things...
Posted: 11/10/2009 10:38:05 AM | But I suppose Susan, you're just happy neither girl will be joy riding in your car.
I'm glad they won't be stealing anyone's car ( and possibly killing someone while joyriding, like that cab driver), but that's the only silver lining in these incidents.
I agree the justice system isn't working, but a lot of that is due to the YCJA and to the emphasis on rehabilitating the criminals. Rehabilitation is a good idea, and does work in many instances. BUT if the person is a repeat offender, then the legal system's view should be :
"OK, we tried rehabilitating you, that didn't work. now we're going to punish you & see if that keeps you from commiting criminal acts."
And no, by punishment I don't mean beatings, I mean making the jail someplace you wouldn't want to be returned to.
No TV, no internet, but have a well stocked library. If you can't read make classes available to teach the inmates. Perhaps a movie or 2 every Saturday night, but only for the inmates who haven't done something that warranted disciplinary action; withhold the movie viewing as a punishment.
No more serving 2/3 of your sentence & being released automatically; if you are sentenced to 5 years ( or 8 or 15, whatever the # is) you serve all those years unless you have been a model prisoner; make the prisoner earn a shortened sentence.
One, a 14 year old girl who was involved with CFS but never apprehended who hung herself in her closet, and the other, her 15 year old friend who had a new born, and CFS involvement again who committed suicide as well, though I'm not sure of how.
Personally, when we have 14 year olds committing suicide, I think that's clear evidence the systems, both justice and CFS aren't working.
I'm not sure how CFS not apprehending the 14 year old and CFS being involved with the 15 year old is proof the justice system isn't working; it does show that CFS isn't working. Are you suggesting CFS incarcerate it's wards to prevent these types of incidents? Or is CFS supposed to allow youths (that are supposed to be under it's care ) to roam freely but then have CFS take responsibility when these types of things hhappen?
Oh, and dudley, my threadf about having a costume made was deleted before I wrote down the name of that tailor shop, could you repost the shop name or send the info to mymailbox? | |
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Posted: 11/10/2009 3:38:57 PM | I'd never suggest CFS incarcerate their wards though they try frequently to do so. When a child is not a candidate for custody, and should be granted bail, or when a kid has completed their time, CFS reps frequently refuse to find a placement for the kid, or ask that the kid stay at MYC longer.
"OK, we tried rehabilitating you, that didn't work. now we're going to punish you & see if that keeps you from commiting criminal acts."
And no, by punishment I don't mean beatings, I mean making the jail someplace you wouldn't want to be returned to.
No TV, no internet, but have a well stocked library. If you can't read make classes available to teach the inmates. Perhaps a movie or 2 every Saturday night, but only for the inmates who haven't done something that warranted disciplinary action; withhold the movie viewing as a punishment.
No more serving 2/3 of your sentence & being released automatically; if you are sentenced to 5 years ( or 8 or 15, whatever the # is) you serve all those years unless you have been a model prisoner; make the prisoner earn a shortened sentence. So- because the kids have a shitty home, we're going to make jail even worse than home? MANY of these kids don't have meals prepared for them more than 3 times a week. They scrounge in kitchen cupboards, or go buy food, or admittedly shoplift. Do you suggest we only feed them once every two days if they're in jail? Most don't go to bed at night feeling safe in their own home- should we have staff members assaulting residents so they're even more afraid when they're at MYC? I can just imagine how helpful it would all be to the latter end of formative years.
Kids DONT have internet access at MYC. There is one television in each unit. Bedtimes vary by your behavior. I have kids who have to be in bed by 8:30 (even one who is 17!) and some who can be up until 10:30. (Though, I will say it's BS they get to sleep in until 9 or 10). There is a classroom in the unit, but it's very difficult to teach curriculum to a group of 12 people when a) 4 of them won't be there next week, and you'll have a new 4; b) 4 are in grade 8, 2 grade 9, 4 haven't been in school since grade 6, and the other two function at or below a grade 2 level.
While I can't remember MYC's capacity amount, I know they're over full. They have one library. Its *maybe* a 12x12 room, and only open M, W, F; I'm not sure if the little lady who acts as librarian is a volunteer or staf member. (My family donates all of our used books to MYC)
The fact is, what YOU think will deter people from crime, isn't usually what would deter them from crime. You're not a criminal, (yet- despite your mislabeled antifreeze in your car), you don't think like a criminal, you don't know what would change a criminal. (And as a side note- I've told you my legal opinion is you're currently committing a criminal act and that you'd be liable for at least crim neg cause death should your bottle trick work, but you still stick to it. Guess what!! Most criminals also think either they won't get caught, or that they're not actually committing crimes!)
Punishment to truly work, generally has to be severe and brief- humans are easily institutionalized and adaptable. Give a man 3 years, and the next time, he's like "pfft, I could do a nickel with my eyes closed." | |
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Posted: 11/10/2009 6:42:44 PM |
So- because the kids have a shitty home, we're going to make jail even worse than home?
You mentioned the justice system and CFS as both being broken systems; the part of my post you quoted was way to work on fixing the justice system, not how to deal with wards of CFS. These are 2 seperate issues.
Do you suggest we only feed them once every two days if they're in jail?
I didn't suggest they be sent to jail at all, again that was the part of my post on the justice system, not CFS. The suggestions I made were for prisoners, not CFS wards.
despite your mislabeled antifreeze in your car....my legal opinion is you're currently committing a criminal act and that you'd be liable for at least crim neg cause death should your bottle trick work, but you still stick to it
Actually, I'm not driving any vehicles right now, the antifreeze suggsetion was just that, a suggestion... anyone reading it can feel free to use the suggestion. If someone steals a person's vehicle & that happens to occur, well they shouldn't have stolen the vehicle & karma bit 'em in the tush. And if it did happen somewhere, it'd sure deter that car thief from stealing anything else.
I guess next you'll be saying that if someone's breaking into your residence you shouldn't use force to stop them because that'd be assault.
Punishment to truly work, generally has to be severe and brief- humans are easily institutionalized and adaptable. Give a man 3 years, and the next time, he's like "pfft, I could do a nickel with my eyes closed."
OK then, let's make the punishments severe. Minimum mandatory sentences, with the sentences being doubled with each re-offence. Here's your cell, you have a 5 year sentence, we'll unlock the door of your cell in 5 years.
Let's make car theft a felony, and adjust the laws so that anyone that dies while you're commiting a felony and guess what? Their death is now premeditated murder.
You commit a crime while carrying a firearm? 5 years mandatory. You discharged the firearm while commiting the crime? 10 years mandatory. The bullet from the firearm caused someone an injury? 15 years mandatory. The person died as a result of your discharging the firearm? Life sentence, & since we don't have the death penalty no release until your death. | |
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Posted: 11/11/2009 11:39:16 AM | Susan, you're not getting the point. Most of the kids at MYC (Justice system argument) come from shitty homes. CFS homes or bio homes, they still suck ass. Making MYC worst then home would be a violation of human rights. There's a huge overlap with CFS and the justice system when we're dealing with kids. And I would guess that at least half the kids at MYC are wards of CFS. At least 2/3 of my clients at MYC are CFS wards.
OK then, let's make the punishments severe. Again, severe, but BRIEF. Humans adapt. You can make it incredibly severe but you then create a person who is not capable of returning to normal society after being institutionalized/traumatized for so long. Mandatory minimums do not rehabilitate offenders. And if we don't rehabilitate offenders we have to warehouse them repeatedly. They become a drain on resources as opposed to ever contributing to society. It's lose lose. | |
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Posted: 11/11/2009 10:11:02 PM |
Again, severe, but BRIEF. Humans adapt. You can make it incredibly severe but you then create a person who is not capable of returning to normal society after being institutionalized/traumatized for so long.
Ok, you steal something, you getyour hand chopped off; that's severe & brief.
Mandatory minimums do not rehabilitate offenders.
The system's been concentrating on rehabilitating the criminals for decades, and that has obviously not been working, so let's switch to punishment instead & see how that works. Mandatory minimums keep those convicted off tthe streets & it's hard tosteal cars, break into houses, and rob people while incarcerated.
And if we don't rehabilitate offenders we have to warehouse them repeatedly. They become a drain on resources as opposed to ever contributing to society. It's lose lose.
And how much of a drain on resources is arresting repeat offenders ? Or arresting individuals, releasing themon bail or promises toappear & arresting themagain, relaseing them, over & over?
I'd rather the resources be drained keeping them incarcerated & the streets that much safer than having them roaming around free.
And if we brought back the death penalty, they don't cost us anything after they're executed. | |
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| Restitution can actually have a positive effect
Posted: 11/12/2009 1:26:07 AM | I'm not so sure with adults, but I know of many kids that start to think about their great big MPI bill as they get closer to 18. It didn't matter when they were damaging thousands of dollars worth of property.... but the thought of jail, if they don't start paying when 18, stresses the heck out of them. Most of them know what youth lock up feels like... but adult lock up is a lot scarier.
I've seen kids tone down their damage in youth locked facilities when they have experienced the discomfort of losing some allowance to pay for damages. $50 per window, $100 for tables that damage walls and/or floors, $30 for a dvd player that flew 20 feet.
I remember one young lady with a hair trigger on her temper. The point of the outburst was to do as much damage as possible. She didn't care if she got hurt in the process. But when she had to go without smokes and other treats (yes, smokes are a big treat for the kiddies), she started to not put as much force into her tantrums. At first, she went over and above to prove that she didn't care if she lost allowance.... but slowly, yes she would avoid having the table land too harshly.
She also learned how to work with leftovers. When I first met her, she enjoyed throwing anything that she didn't like at people or the ceiling or walls. She knew her rights and wanted to exercise any power possible. A bit of a Time Out was annoying and boring, but she would make anyone who "put her there" suffer. I'm really pleased to say that when she left, she was already volunteering to cook up yesterday's leftovers in a creative and tasty way. Months before, she would have spit or peed in them.
The teams of people that work with the little darlings have to be unified. To have any lasting effect, those that are attempting to guide them need to work together and keep with the original plan. If the child can pit one Staff against another Staff.... well, there won't be much change with that child because they have all the power and do not want to change their life in any way.
These children do usually have to fend for themselves... but they seldom realize, immediately, that their behaviour is what landed them in lock up in the first place. They don't have trust of most adults. And if they do trust some adults... it's probably an adult that does not have the child's best interest at heart. Because the child feels that they can take care of themselves AND they truly believe that they are doing a great job of it,change is not on the agenda.
Some adults can be 'played' for sympathy, but the child still has the power to continue on with the path that THEY have chosen. Guiding a child is empowering that child to make better decisions. Consistency is paramount.
I'll step off my soap box for a little while now | |
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Posted: 11/13/2009 8:48:49 AM |
despite your mislabeled antifreeze in your car. I've told you my legal opinion is you're currently committing a criminal act and that you'd be liable for at least crim neg cause death
They would have to be able to prove the inappropriately labelled bottle was deliberately left there for the express purpose of poisoning a car thief/thieves. Also, unless they happened to find the them in the stolen car with the bottle in their possesion it'd be very hard for the authorities to learn where the bottle came from.
I can picture it now, interviewing the thief ( if they survived) and compiling a list of vehicles they stole & trying to figure out which ( if any) vehicle the bottle came from. | |
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Posted: 11/14/2009 10:52:12 AM | When you choose to commit a crime you are choosing to harm your society and your nation. Therefore you should be forfeit of your rights as a citizen. As for human rights, until we distribute them equally to all members of society they are worthless no matter who grants them. It is the same with the law. Until it is equal to all persons then it is useless to all. Both of these systems are currently distributed based on political agenda and bigotry.
If we were to use corporal punishment it would curb a lot of the lesser crimes. There is no status to being publicly caned, just shame. If we want to stop the kids from committing crimes shouldn't we let sh1t run down hill? If we get strict with the real crimminal element like the outlaw bikers and garbage like that then work our way down to the level the kids are at. Wouldn't that be a place to start? Problem is it means changing the system and that will take years. Maybe if winnipeg has such a problem then your mayor should create a bi-law or two to toughen things up or declare the city under martial law. I think he has that right and definately has the duty to protect the citizenry,as does the province and the federal government.
Until we decide to place emphisis back on family and community rather than self this trend will continue. That is my uninformed, uneducated,biased opinion based solely on ignorance and observation.
It is a shame about those 2 young girls committing suicide, as well as the child who will never know it's mother. However while we can mourn these and others we still have to understand that collectively as a society we are responsible,in part,for their deaths. | |
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| Restitution can actually have a positive effect
Posted: 11/14/2009 11:19:23 AM |
I've seen kids tone down their damage in youth locked facilities when they have experienced the discomfort of losing some allowance to pay for damages. $50 per window, $100 for tables that damage walls and/or floors, $30 for a dvd player that flew 20 feet.
Well now i feel like a sh1tty parent. I never gave my kids an allowance yet i am supporting allowance for strangers out of control kids. Here i thought making my kids earn the things they wanted in life was going to be a good thing.
But when she had to go without smokes and other treats (yes, smokes are a big treat for the kiddies),
Here the government is giving smokes to the same kids for whom this same government made it illegal to purchase these smokes. Government hypocracy won't be a part of the problem though, will it? We tax the law abiding citizens and limit their opportunity to enjoy a cigarette while rewarding crimminals in our prisons and youth centers with these same cigarettes. Yet these are work places so the guards can't smoke there? What message are we sending these people?a) here are some smokes you've been good enjoy them or b) here are some smokes catch cancer and die you piece of sh1t.
I'm really pleased to say that when she left, she was already volunteering to cook up yesterday's leftovers in a creative and tasty way. Months before, she would have spit or peed in them
Maybe that's what makes them so tasty.
So taking the child's focus off their shortcomings and evil ways and having them focus on their strengths. Rewarding them for good behaviour while punishing them for improper conduct. Isn't this called parenting? Now if we could find a way to parent the child's parents, this could be avoided in the future and you'ld be out of a job. I'm sure that wouldn't hurt you much as you would find other work.
Most of them know what youth lock up feels like... but adult lock up is a lot scarier.
When that 6'7", 265# guy in the bunk across from you lays there and repeatedly says "go to sleep", you will stay awake as long as you can and cry yourself to sleep the first couple of nights. | |
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Posted: 11/14/2009 11:17:34 PM |
Maybe if winnipeg has such a problem then your mayor should create a bi-law or two to toughen things up or declare the city under martial law. I think he has that right and definately has the duty to protect the citizenry,as does the province and the federal government
Perhaps a curfew for anyone under 18 years of age. And place the city under martial law from sundown to sunrise; anyone caught breaking the law during this time would be arrested by the military & could experience the military's justice system ( no YCJA there).
Also bring in laws similar to those in the US ( I think the common name for it is castle law) where a person's s home is their castle & they can use any means they feel are necessary to protect it from home invaders & other criminals.
( with appropriate warning signs posted:
"Anyone found here at night will be found here in the morning"
or
"Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again" | |
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| Restitution can actually have a positive effect
Posted: 11/15/2009 1:47:49 AM | Yup Dudley, your tax dollars do help support a lot of our population. Try to think of it as, that for a brief time, you are directly attempting to redirect some wayward children and adults. I can't speak for all Staff at such facilities.... but I'm pretty sure that most have the goal of getting their clients to be productive members of society.
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, Your tax dollars do buy cigarettes, but the little ones are on their own to figure out how to get them with their allowance..... Some little chore provides the allowance. Some kids are pretty resourceful about getting what they want. Especially if they have been fending for themselves for a while already. Plus, there are plenty of adults that will give smokes to them or they can even buy them themselves from some places.
It seems, that unless it is court ordered, that the little one are allowed to smoke. There is something about it being against their human rights to deny them smoke breaks.... except MYC Nobody gets a smoke there.
Yes, getting kids to try to do something productive is usually a good way to get them to be a little more responsible and possibly give them something to be proud of. Most of the little ones are used to being treated like they are gum under someone's shoe... kinda ticks them off and makes them think that they should continue to give people a reason to be scared and disgusted by them. But if Staff are HONESTLY impressed by a little ones behaviour and give true praise, that feeling of pride can be addictive... it's better than some other addictions. Good Staff will find the positive and attempt to nurture it.
LOL I'm sure that most Staff wouldn't volunteer to sample any cooking unless they watched the whole process and knew exactly where every ingredient was, or has been, at all times. I imagine that it's similar to the skills that Royal Tasters would have developed  I bet that when they weren't tasting stuff.... they spent a lot of time in the kitchen and may have even volunteered to purchase the ingredients hahahaha I know that I would have, if I had that job.
As for parenting the parents..... that is a tough one. I have not met many people that think that they are a bad parent.... even parents that have children that are rebelling against everything. It's not just the poor, there are some really dysfunctional wealthy families too.
Most parents that attend parenting classes are only there because they have to be there.... it doesn't make them the most willing participants. Again, the facilitator has to find a way to reach them in the brief time that they have them. I personally think that drug and alcohol treatment programs that are about 3 months long can be very effective, with a parenting component. If it is just a parenting class, make it weekly or biweekly for at least 6 months.
I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that what the parents could honestly feel and commit to in a program.... probably becomes more shaky when they are faced with whatever caused them to slip up outside the program.
Coping techniques? Conditioning? To alter anyone's perspective requires that person to want to alter it. Nobody honestly changes because someone else told them that they need to... they gotta want to change. | |
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| Restitution can actually have a positive effect
Posted: 11/15/2009 7:23:18 AM |
Your tax dollars do buy cigarettes, but the little ones are on their own to figure out how to get them with their allowance.....
It seems, that unless it is court ordered, that the little one are allowed to smoke. There is something about it being against their human rights to deny them smoke breaks....
But as youths under 18, how is it they are allowed to get cigrettes when it's illegal to sell cigarettes to people under 18? Unless their parents drop off the smokes, someone's breaking the law somewhere... | |
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| Restitution can actually have a positive effect
Posted: 11/15/2009 11:15:50 AM |
Yup Dudley, your tax dollars do help support a lot of our population. Try to think of it as, that for a brief time, you are directly attempting to redirect some wayward children and adults. I can't speak for all Staff at such facilities.... but I'm pretty sure that most have the goal of getting their clients to be productive members of society
This is what makes paying taxes a pleasure as well as a duty. I would be a collossal fool to be against having some form of social network,particularily if it gets delivered properly and achieves the desired results. At the same time i am dead set against abuse and waste.
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, Your tax dollars do buy cigarettes, but the little ones are on their own to figure out how to get them with their allowance..... Some little chore provides the allowance.
That feels better, i was under the impression the staff was handing these things out as a matter of course.
As for parenting the parents..... that is a tough one. I have not met many people that think that they are a bad parent.... even parents that have children that are rebelling against everything. It's not just the poor, there are some really dysfunctional wealthy families too
That's one of the things that makes us all relatively equal,no problem is exclusive to any class,race,gender(maybe sickle cell anemia). The stigma will seem to stick to the poor and certain races more than to others though and that is what creates what inequality there is.
I think what i see when i look at parenting the parents is that it has to be an issue taken up by society as a whole. We all have to take a hand in raising the parents as well as the children in many cases, this will mean a change in the direction society has taken. We have to take the focus off me first and place it on my family and my community first. We have to return to helping our neighbor and strangers etc. We need to become more involved in community and how people are living their lives and try what we can to direct people in our lives on other ways to live and what is going wrong in our lives as well as theirs. We have to care about the others in our lives not just our selves. Every problem in a so called dysfunctional family or community or nation can be traced back to selfishness on the part of the people involved.
Coping techniques? Conditioning? To alter anyone's perspective requires that person to want to alter it. Nobody honestly changes because someone else told them that they need to... they gotta want to change.
Like i used to tell my ex "I'm not going to change for the sake of change but change will come when it's ready.". Change is inevitable,it will come as we mature but man's selfish nature will not permit him to be pushed into change jusst because someone wants it. | |
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| Restitution can actually have a positive effect
Posted: 11/15/2009 11:35:08 AM |
But as youths under 18, how is it they are allowed to get cigrettes when it's illegal to sell cigarettes to people under 18? Unless their parents drop off the smokes, someone's breaking the law somewhere
Well susancd i think some laws just need to be broken. You can't fight a court battle to remove an unjust law until someone has been charged with breaking that law. I think many of these laws that are designed with the soul purpose of controlling the population and are enacted and accepted on the pretext of being for the good of your health should be fought and forced to be repealed. This is one of them, there is no reason why i shouldn't be able to have my kid pick up a pack of smokes for me on his way home from town. I don't smoke but still see the law as unjust. Make it illegal for the kid to smoke if that's what the object of the law is, don't ****foot around it and make it illegal to sell to this one or that one, illegal to advertise or show the product in the store. Make it illegal for the persons you are directing this at to smoke. This is the problem, the laws aren't dealing with the issue they alledge to be targeting. It is illegal for the shopkeep to show the product or sell to certain age groups, it is illegaal for companies to advertise their product, it is illegal to supply the child with cigarettes. It is against the childs human rights to deny them smoke breaks. Everyone except the target audience is being held responsible. The laws don't address the problem they are supposed to yet prefer to create more opportunity for individuals to become crimminals. | |
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| Restitution can actually have a positive effect
Posted: 11/15/2009 7:46:04 PM |
The funny thing is that it's easier for kids to get drugs and alcohol than cigarettes
That's only logical. 'Course this is Dudley logic and may be a bit off kilter.The drug dealers and bootleggers have no honourable reputation to build and maintain and are less in the public eye than the shopkeeps. They can get their smokes from their bootlegger if they want to pay for them. Suppose though most kids either steal the liquor from their parents or get someone to pull it for them, a touch harder to do with smokes maybe. It may feel cool to get someone to buy you a bottle and the buyer may even feel cool about doing it but a pack of smokes? Probably just leave them both feeling a touch on the weenie side. The sense of rebellion isn't in it. | |
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