| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:02:23 AM | I did not vote for Obama, but I was taught to respect my president and country. All this bashing over trivial things is not respect. Get on to the real business in life.
As for respect, half the people at my grandson's preschool sit when the kids pledge to the flag. Talk about disrespect, are these the same that question a salute? | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:13:41 AM |
I did not vote for Obama, but I was taught to respect my president and country. All this bashing over trivial things is not respect. Get on to the real business in life.
As for respect, half the people at my grandson's preschool sit when the kids pledge to the flag. Talk about disrespect, are these the same that question a salute?
Obama is the Commander in Chief, the head of all our country's armed services.
And yes, as much as I do not like many of Obama's policies this is one of the dumbest tit bits brought forward on Obama.
Unless it is for religious or other similar reasons all students should learn how to respect the flag. | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:56:20 AM | Obama is the Commander in Chief, the head of all our country's armed services.
And yes, as much as I do not like many of Obama's policies this is one of the dumbest tit bits brought forward on Obama.
Well the OP didn't start it out that way ~ he took excepting with any President returning a salute. ~ Or at least thats the way it was presented.
It would not surprise me that some might direct it at the sitting president. ~ It seems to be a gang bang sport to attack everything Obama says and does.
He is the President and like other President's before him ~ he takes liberties.
That many have disliked him from the off set ~ and found fault in the smallest of things it's not anything new. ~ He was attacked for offering everyone to check the air pressure in your car tires to ensure better gas mileage to failing to put his hand over his heart when they played " Old McDonald had a Farm" ~
The C&C can salute are he wants too ! and is head of the military of the United States of America the most awesome military force know to mankind. But that comes at a great price and great responsibilities. To know one "can" ~ does not mean one "should."
In the act of saluting ~ I prefer a snappy return myself. ~ It's fitting.
Military guards, sentry and picketts serve a purpose ~ to over see security ~ that's made harder if required to hold a salute for your eyes must be fixed for the return or until the President has left the area.
So it makes perfect sense to return a salute.
Dance | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:07:11 AM | He is the President and like other President's before him ~ he takes liberties.
I don't think I'd characterize the different Presidents acting differently as "taking liberties", but rather as "being an individual unlike any other". The fact of the matter is, he is NOT Reagan, and he is NOT George Washington; and he is the President in THIS era, not those eras. To compare a modern man's actions and sense of propriety to someone's from a bygone era isn't fair, and not realistic. | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:30:18 PM | I am a fan of Barack Obama. I support Obama and I voted for Obama. It's for these reasons I want him to stop the misguided habit of giving military salutes.
The United States was founded under civilian rule, not military rule.
Ultimately, civilians control the military, not the other way around.
Even state governors hold control over state military reserves and militias ( unless usurped by the President of the United States ). And, Governors are civilians, they are not military officers.
The Chinese used to think the same way until Tiananmen Square happened. Now, the Chinese know exactly where the power really is.
Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, and John Kennedy were all officers in the military in WWI and WWII , but once they took off the uniform they never returned military salutes as president.
The military salutes the civilian office, in that the civilian office is higher than any military rank. That's the way it is in this country.
When the president ( or another civilian office holder ) makes a military salute, he is blurring the lines between the civilian and the military. The president is a private civilian, a citizen , not a military officer. He has no business giving military salutes.
Doing it is only pandering, for political purposes.
I want him to stop it ! | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:35:10 PM |
I want him to stop it ! well that's your opinion and pretty much everyone else that came on here disagreed with you,I strongly disagree with your argument,your reasons,and I certainly do not see the commander and chief as a civilian.Dissect this if you wish,the vast majority here are not buying it ! | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:45:54 PM | This is one issue that I will say that Obama is right in saluting the men in uniform he comes across .The President is the commander-in-chief of the United States armed forces and outranks any military officer. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commander-in-chief )
One of the main aspects of military courtesy is the salute. It is a gesture of respect and a sign of comradeship among service personnel. http://www.marinewives.com/index.php/component/option,com_content/task,view/id,1724/Itemid,375/
I have a feeling that if Obama didn't many would be complaining. | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:56:06 PM |
When the president ( or another civilian office holder ) makes a military salute, he is blurring the lines between the civilian and the military. The president is a private civilian, a citizen , not a military officer. He has no business giving military salutes.
I guess someone shoulda horse-whipped lil' John Kennedy Jr. for saluting his daddy's coffin at the funeral. D*** good thing he is already dead or someone might kill him for his past indiscretions.  | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:39:08 PM | Well OP I respect your views but I'm not sure how you arrived at them or why you feel so deeply about them. ~ We are all men and women first and the we take on roles and position.
Being a protestant and already having a Dad ~ I've had a hard time calling a priest "Father" ~ but I'm not sure if this is the same thing.
The Founding Fathers ~ became military men ~ out of need . ~ George Washington wanted , was offered and accepted the position as Commander of the Continental Army.
When this work was done, he accepted the position as President and was offered more.
That he retired and passed the position on ~ a president was started and later defined as our early government defined itself and how things would work with separation of powers and the separation of church and state.
The President is still seen today as the Supreme Commander above all other's. ~
This nation was forged by military might as civilian united and committed to the cause of the ideas of "free men" Free men can not be free without a military.
I feel you are reading more into the salute then what is being offered. This is something that is exclusive and permitted for this "one" civilian" One needs to bear in mind he represents every American. Including the one's that have weivered their "bill of rights" to be soldiers. He is more then just their President he is their Commander.
As we have learned , the act of returning a military salute has evolved much like our nation and it's government.
You see harm ~ where I see none.
The Founding Fathers of the United States were the political leaders who signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776 or otherwise took part in the American Revolution in winning American independence from Great Britain, or who participated in framing and adopting the United States Constitution in 1787-1788, or in putting the new government under the Constitution into effect. Within the large group known as "the founding fathers," there are two key subsets, the Signers (who signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776) and the Framers (who were delegates to the Federal Convention and took part in framing or drafting the proposed Constitution of the United States). Most historians define the "founding fathers" to mean a larger group, including not only the Signers and the Framers but also all those who, whether as politicians or jurists or statesmen or soldiers or diplomats or ordinary citizens, took part in winning American independence and creating the United States of America.[2] The eminent American historian Richard B. Morris, in his 1973 book Seven Who Shaped Our Destiny: The Founding Fathers as Revolutionaries, identified the following seven figures as the key founding fathers: Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Jay, James Madison, and Alexander Hamilton.[3]
Some people have strong feeling ~ We had a bulletin board in the company area back in Nam. On it, was photographs of the chain of command. ~ Our Latrine was outdoors and large 55 gal, barrels buried in the ground with screen covering the top. ~ On morning I went to pee and someone with "strong feeling" had removed Nixon picture and placed it over the screen. ~ So why ? why such strong feeling? and such strong reactions ?
I 'll never known.
Dance | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:37:54 PM |
When the president ( or another civilian office holder ) makes a military salute, he is blurring the lines between the civilian and the military. The president is a private civilian, a citizen , not a military officer. Oh my goodness gracious. He is also the Commander-in-Chief. The only one. He is not simply a civilian. Ignoring that status is disingenuous.
He has no business giving military salutes. Evidently he does. Evidently you're wrong.
I want him to stop it ! And I want world peace. Would you like to wait together?
*****
This "issue" of the OP's is a fantastic example of a pet peeve. No one is going to change his mind, that's for sure. If he chooses to continue to be bothered by it, that's his choice. It's not a wise choice, in my opinion, and it's not particularly rational. But that's not a requirement of a pet peeve. | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:58:43 PM |
Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, and John Kennedy were all officers in the military in WWI and WWII , but once they took off the uniform they never returned military salutes as president.
Bullschit. This whole nonsensical idea that saluting started with Reagan is just stupid.
Calvin Coolidge saluting:
http://www.corbisimages.com/Enlargement/Enlargement.aspx?id=U93983P-A&ext=1
Dwight Eisenhower saluting:
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h68000/h68541.jpg
FDR Saluting:
http://history1900s.about.com/library/photos/blyfdr4.htm
Kennedy didn't salute because he couldn't. He didn't wave very often for the same reason. The guy was wearing a back brace during most of his time in office. Snapping to attention to render a salute wasn't exactly something he could have done even if he wanted to.
Doing it is only pandering, for political purposes.
I want him to stop it !
I see... Saluting is pandering for political purposes and you'd rather he pander to you.
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/7/2009 4:22:41 PM |
Dissect this if you wish,the vast majority here are not buying it ! Meaning the majority are right simply for being the majority? I'm sorry, but that's not an argument I'm willing to buy into.
However, I will pay heed to what a former military officer and teacher of military law at Yale Law school has to say on the matter. You will note that even though former presidents are mentioned, no party affiliations are even slightly eluded to. No bias or finger pointing at any political party. Simply a professional opinion concerning whether or not any current or former President of the United States should ever salute.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/06/opinion/l06salute.html?_r=2
The President is the commander-in-chief of the United States armed forces and outranks any military officer. While that comment is true, it also allows one to make false assumptions. The mere fact that the President outranks any military officer is not being questioned. Nor is the fact that the President cannot be a member of the military and serve as the President at the same time.
Which makes the below portion totally relevant as to why it is improper for any President to salute.
and keeps clear the line between civilian and military public service. | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 12:28:13 AM | The office of President of the USA is a civilian post. If the post were military the US Government would be a Junta... 
Although the post carries the title of Commander in Chief, the President is not a member of the military and does not have a military rank.
In the UK, the monarch are members of the military and hold military ranks.
As a point of etiquette, the monarchs in their capacity as head/representative of state (civilian) bow and do not salute, but when in uniform (a military capacity) they salute.
I agree with the OP, the President should not salute. | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 5:33:54 AM | | We even get what other countries do in this debate on an American president saluting.Oh well,obviously someone has to be disgusted by him.Then it will just have to hurt you few,every time he salutes then.Is it OK he gets out the side of the car he currently gets out of,or should we be upset ! | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 7:40:40 AM | I think this is a fools folly myself and there is more pressing matters at hand.
But at the moment I need some distraction from the realities I've been handed this morning.
If you have it be so , we might endulge law makers to address this quandary and come forward with an infinitive solution on the matter of the Presidential salute.
I'm quite sure this could be done.
My first question might well be ~ who else might the President salute besides military personnel? ~ For if we are going to such lengths to define and narrow intent and purpose, I'd sure not wish to leave anyone, party or group left out.
And there is a walking salute and a Attention Salute. There is occassions both formal and informal, there is locations in and outdoors, There is all kinds of military presence around the President 24/7. ~ The President can't step out of the Oval office and to the Rose Garden without confronting at least two military Scentry guards.
So you are opening up a big can of worms here.
I'm with the prior poster, ~ that offered that if the President is seen as "pandering" by saluting ~ He would equally be "pandering" to "others" that wished him not. I don't see this as pandering anymore then, opening up a door for someones with arms loaded.
If I was President ~ and asked such questions as this or if I had , had sex with "this" woman, I have you escorted off the property and have the FBI do a background search on you to see what your motives were and if you were a threat to me. I'd not mess with you and you'd be wise to be squeaking clean or I'd show you what anal retention is all about.
~ Thanks for the diversion ~ I feel some better now ~ But I still need some thing to kick around, somebody to make my day.
Dance | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 7:51:40 AM | ^^^ Deary oh deary me...
Who is "him" and who is "disgusted" ???
The Thread is "Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?"
And if you read my post, it refers to the office of President and makes no reference to anyone specific President.
The subject is a matter of etiquette and therefore a-political.
Happy | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 8:20:43 AM | What are you going to do if the president salutes the military?
Bring charges against him?
Grab hold of reality.
This is such a non-issue.
He salutes, he doesn't salute.
Either way, this particular president is going to catch hell from someone. | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:06:19 AM |
What are you going to do if the president salutes the military?
Bring charges against him?
Grab hold of reality.
This is such a non-issue.
He salutes, he doesn't salute.
Either way, this particular president is going to catch hell from someone.
Precisely!  | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:14:08 AM | "This is such a non-issue."
Why bother posting eh?
"Either way, this particular president is going to catch hell from someone."
And there lays the problem, Obamie wingnuts pre-judging situations with political dogma instead of debating the thread title before them. | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:19:38 AM |
And, therein lies the problem with those who insist on name-calling, rather
than addressing what was posted.
What I said was, this is a non-issue. There is nothing anyone can do if the president
salutes or doesn't salute our military.
This really isn't a debatable topic--there is no outcome, either way.
Do I think he 'should' salute? Makes no difference to me, as long as he is respectful. | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 12:20:22 PM |
In the United States, civilians do not give military salutes to the military.
Generally, military personnel salute each other with a few exceptions under well established guidelines. Military salutes should be rendered between members of the active military only.
That has a LOT to do with how one is raised. I was raised by a lifetime Airman to show the utmost respect for servicemen and veterans. It may not be deemed "proper" for civilians to salute, but I believe it's simply a display of respect and thanks for all they do. I've raised my son to do so and see no reason to stop it.
Do I think the president should do so? You're damn right I do. As much disrespect as he has already shown towards our military, it's the very least he can do! | |
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| Should the President render salutes to military personnel ?
Posted: 11/8/2009 4:28:14 PM | | This really does not seem like an important issue. The US is going through all kinds of labor pains right now with health care, all kinds of angst and hardship with military issues and the two wars they are fighting, the economy is trying to get back on its feet....whether or not every president since Reagan, including the current one, commits an error in etiquette by soluting the troups seems like a very, very nonessential issue. | |
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