| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:36:10 AM | Re: --brightspark--
If I could get an engine that would run on water... beleive me, I would be one of the first lining up to get one, I drive a big car, with a big engine, and I love it :) But it does cost me at the pump.
There is a great movie called Chain Reaction, I recomend you try and kick it up and give it a once over. It's a movie that is primarily based on a scietist finding a method to extract the energy from water and use it as a fuel source, I think it becomes obvious what happens as those with the money will seek out to destroy such a scietist and any of his work.
I recomend you learn more about a couple of the people who ran around making wild claims about creating the first car to run on water. Despite the fact they where lieing out of there ass, someone killed them, just because!
Stanley Meyer as one example claimed that he ran a dune buggy on water instead of petrol. He replaced the spark plugs with "injectors" to spray a fine mist of water into the engine cylinders, which he claimed were subjected to an electrical resonance. The "fuel cell" would split the water mist into hydrogen and oxygen gas, which would then be combusted back into water vapor in a conventional internal combustion engine to produce net energy. Meyer's claims were never independently verified, and later he was found guilty of fraud in an Ohio court. He died of an aneurysm, but some theories persist that he was poisoned. I personally lean towards poisoned, as he was creating so much awareness for the idea, someone wanted him dead.
To extract chemical energy directly from water, a process which would violate the first and second laws of thermodynamics has been mulled over by many great thinkers, myself certainly included :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbZNoJj0l1I | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:43:47 AM | I have a dream.
Approx 70 planet is water.
In the future there will be rafts of floating discs approx 20 m across.
There will be ( pie 10m sq = 314.2 m 2 of refective surface on ech disc
Beneath the discs will be a floating plastic container.
The rafts will be made from plastic with a shiny metallic plastic similar to the shiny metallic plastic used for childrens helium baloons
The plastic will naturally form a concave surface especially when warm forming a concave reflector
Above the discs will be an arm which stretches up to the focal point of the crude reflector
Since there is approx 1000w per m 2 (its actually 1.4kw/m2) then there would be approx
3ookw of energy being concentrated on the focal point.
Assuming a small pump supplied seawater at high pressure to a chamber lined with a catalyst eg platinum at extremely high pressure is it possible that Hydrogen may be dissociated from H2O and pumped down to the tank suspended below the raft.
These rafts would also encourage fish to congregate and develop.
The Hydrogen could them be harvested . | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:54:32 AM |
Meyer's claims were never independently verified, and later he was found guilty of fraud in an Ohio court. He died of an aneurysm, but some theories persist that he was poisoned. I personally lean towards poisoned, as he was creating so much awareness for the idea, someone wanted him dead.
So, despite all evidence AGAINST his claims, you would rather believe there was a conspiracy to kill him? Um...wow. This speaks volumes of your thought processes.
has been mauled over by many great thinkers, myself certainly included :)
I think you can safely exclude yourself from the "great thinkers".
You probably meant; by the way, "mulled", not "mauled". | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/2/2009 9:18:04 AM | Re: FrogO_Oeyes
So, despite all evidence AGAINST his claims, you would rather believe there was a conspiracy to kill him? Um...wow. This speaks volumes of your thought processes.
Stanley Meyer died suddenly after dining at a restaurant, in the parking lot. The autopsy report by the coroner concluded that Meyer had died of a cerebral aneurysm. He did not show any early signs or symptom that many often do experience before dieing from a brain Aneurysm. There are powerful ingredients that could induce an aneurysm like the one he had! Stan said while he was alive, that he was threatened many times and would not sell out his technology (Possibly because he knew it was a lie)
I know his technology was crap, but like I said, I think he was kicking up enough noise about the 'idea' that someone wanted to shut him up.
While I don't stay awake at night pondering over this, I don't think it's a huge leap to connect power and greed to the death of a man who was setting out to put an end to oil companies (Well, I'm sure it was more to do with making free money with Fraud) but he had already gained the attention of people who saw him as a threat because he was so believable... even to the OP.
You probably meant; by the way, "mulled", not "mauled".
Yes, thank you, I can't spell | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/2/2009 9:28:05 AM | The inefficiency of electrolysis of water to H and O yields a different benefit-portability.
You wouldn't have to carry around the oxidizer, since that's available from the atmosphere. Hydrogen has three times the energy as an equal mass of gasoline.
But less than 3/10,000 the energy of an equal volume of gasoline. So storage and dispensing are huge issues. You'd have to store hydrogen at around 50,000 psi to get the energy of a similar sized gas tank. My guess is this tank would weigh many thousands of lbs.
Even if the mechanical design of this tank could be assured during an automobile crash, the reactivity of hydrogen at these incredible pressures might well destroy its integrity just sitting in the garage. | |
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| Mexamericanada and the looming world war over oil and food.
Posted: 11/2/2009 2:34:55 PM | Mexamericanada and the looming world war over oil and food..
I know that the above heading has nothing to do with the 'consciousness of water'.. I'm a little bit peeved that I went through the trouble of typing out an extensive and interesting '4 large paragraphs' only to have it stricken after 14 views and no votes..
Could it be carried on here for a while?..
I've heard of a plan in the pipelines that suggests Mexico, America and Canada will unite (dropping all borders) creating the 'Mexamericanada' union.. This unity is geared towards combating Europe and the Euro (by means of the 'Amero').
America is $78 trillion in debt. To put that in perspective. The 'ENTIRE WORLDS' GDP is around $74.5 trillion (it would take the entire world 1 whole year to work off Americas debt).
China is moving in on the collapse of the dollar.. What are your thoughts? | |
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| Mexamericanada and the looming world war over oil and food.
Posted: 11/2/2009 3:06:10 PM |
I know that the above heading has nothing to do with the 'consciousness of water'.. I'm a little bit peeved that I went through the trouble of typing out an extensive and interesting '4 large paragraphs' only to have it stricken after 14 views and no votes..
Don't take it personally, I've had a few of my threads deleted. But this would be called "hijacking." | |
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| The consciousness of water.
Posted: 11/2/2009 3:14:00 PM | I know stargazer.. If i'd of noticed '1' vote that had been cast against it, I wouldn't of taken my grievance here..
I'd spent a good 'half hour' on structuring the question only to have it censored.
I though it might make an interesting disscussion.... Obviously not..... Lol. | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/2/2009 3:46:17 PM | Hey spark
No offense taken, however, I have looked into these hydrogen "conversion" units at great length. Here is the problem. THEY DON'T WORK. I understand that is a conclusion, and I am sure you would like to know WHY they don't work. What they do is make a very small, tiny, miniscule amount of hydrogen that is then released into the intake system of the car, which is NOT sealed, so even less gets into the actual combustion chamber to do any good. Is that simple enough? Even at relatively high, for street cars, RPM, there isn't enough of an air flow to capture the H2 to get to the combustion chamber in any great amounts, or at least enough to make a difference.
The second problem you have is that ALL cars now run on what is called a closed loop computer controlled system for their fuel injection units. That means that they have measurments taken for all the parameters that are involved in running of the motor, includding the exhaust efluvient....... That would be the exhaust gases. When the stoicheometric ratio, that is the fuel/air ratio changes from the parameters that are programed in the CPU, the fuel injection unit automatically compensates for those changes. If you were to increase the amount of the fuel, be it H2, or plain old gas, the computer would compensate by increasing the amount of air in the ratio, or by decreasing the amount of gas........... That would result in too lean a mixture, the cyhlinders would overheat, valves would burn on the edges, maybe even a siezed motor would result caused by detonation.................
And you want to put one of these systems on your car? Have you ever wondered why it is that only the people selling these devices are the ones getting the great gas mileage? Now, THERE is a good conspiracy......... have at it.
Just so you know, I have done EXTENSIVE research into the area of internal combustion motors, cylinder head flow, high performance theory, etc. For over 10 years, I read huge amounts of engineering papers on cylinder flow, air flow dynamics, detonation cause and effect, etc. I hold a US patent for a cylinder head, just telling you so you don't think that I am saying this without the prior experience. When I applied for the patent, it was rejected the first time, but then I sat down and read how the atty. worded everything, told him what to change and it was granted.
Paul K | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/2/2009 4:16:46 PM | 'Paul K'..//and you want to put one of these systems on your car?//
I've seen the Honda 'fcx' drive. I've watched testimonials by people who have driven it.. They dont complain.
They talk about a silent humming that sounds like one gear that never changes.. It starts off as quiet as a mouse...and when your foot is fully down, it is as loud as cracking open a beer :). Nothing more.
There's a technology that needs to be explored there mate.
Simple as. | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/2/2009 4:25:06 PM | ^^^^^^^^
So the Honda "fcx" drive has similarities to the hydrogen generation systems that people are now buying and retrofitting on current older cars???
The only thing in common between the two is if they have the same amount of wheels................ But only if they both have 4 wheels.
As far as a technology that needs to be explored, just buy one, and then you can explore it to your hears content............
Paul K | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/2/2009 4:36:03 PM | 'Paul K'..//So the Honda "'fcx'' drive has similarities to the hydrogen generation systems that people are now buying and retrofitting on current older cars???//
In the short answer.... No... But it's a technology that needs funding and work. As far as I can see, there is not enough funding and not enough work towards it..that's just my opinion though. | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/2/2009 4:51:51 PM | ^^^^^
I agree with you that hydrogen is the way to go, but I don't think that you quite understand just how the Honda fcx really works......... This does NOT have a hydrogen generation system on board........ YOU have to fill a tank with HYDROGEN, and then a "fuel cell" converts hydrogen and oxygen into electricty, which drives an electric motor. Which is why you never heard gears change, and it was as quiet as an electric car................. because it IS an electric car. This technology is still a bit out there as far as everyday use.
The best solution is where cars are driven by electric motors, for recharable batteries that get recharged at night in the garage at home, and there is a gas powered motor to keep the charge in the batteries high enought to go about 350 miles, before needing a complete charge. The gas motors that would drive a generator would run at only one speed, and be VERY efficient and clean. This is technology we have today. The problem is that if EVERYBODY switched to this type of cars, we would fry the electrical grids at night, recharging all the batteries. Like all things, a compromise is best. Part of the compromise would have to be a clean effcient electrical power source........ and the only one out there is ..................
NUCLEAR. Thats right kiddies, lets grow up and admit that nuclear power can be our friend. After all if the french have been able to make it work.........................
need more be said?
Paul k | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/2/2009 7:15:56 PM | Hmm... Lets see now, water vapor makes clouds, which make rain.......... hmmm
Now that is a dastardly plan.........
Paul K | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/2/2009 8:47:34 PM | Walls dont talk
They are too busy listening
I suspect the same of the water
SSSHHHH every one be quiet now | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/3/2009 5:05:04 PM | Hmm... Lets see now, water vapor makes clouds, which make rain.......... hmmm
Hmm... Let's see now, water vapour makes clouds, which blocks the sun and increases albedo forcing, which makes rain and brings on more flooding, which reduces photosynthesis, which reduces CO2 output, which cools the planet, which kills plant growth cycles.... hmmm
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/3/2009 5:10:02 PM | Hey Muse
So then you are FOR more water vapor, for the reasons you stated? GREAT, then bring on the nuclear powerplants, they will create more water vapor, more clouds, less CO2, less global warming.....................
UNLESS, the nuclear plants don't emit water vapor........................
Paul K | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/3/2009 5:17:44 PM | I was thinking more along the lines of going from one extreme to the other.... from global warming to an ice age.
Take your pick ?
Or come up with a more viable technology that won't threaten to do either... hmmm | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/3/2009 5:26:42 PM | I don't have to come up with a more viable technology that won't threaten to do either......... because that technology exists, and that technology is.......
NUCLEAR.
Most nuke plants today DO NOT emit water vapor, it is recaptured and condensed... called closed loop...........
Hey, I wonder if I were to write a computer program that would tell us how many nuke plants we would need to conteract the CO2 emissions we are emitting, for a net zero result, would that get me a Nobel Prize? Seeing how you don't really have to do anything anymore to get a Nobel prize.......................
Paul K
hmmmmm. | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/3/2009 5:39:08 PM | Seeing how you don't really have to do anything anymore to get a Nobel prize.......................
Well, you hit the nail right on the head there. No disagreement from this side of the funny farm. 
Nuclear power plants don't emit water vapour ? I wasn't aware of that, learn something new everyday.... I've not read up on nuclear power whatsoever. So I have no opinion to it either way.
Perhaps you could invent a vehicle that has its own mini nuclear power plant sticking out the ass-end of the trunk ?
Or you could just come up with a whiz-banger of a movie about it and win the nobel prize anyway.... | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/3/2009 5:55:03 PM | Hey muse
look up- Hyperion - They claim to be able to release product within 5 years....
www.hyperionpowergeneration.com
Look it up, it will blow your mind. What blows my mind about this technology is that it is very real, yet almost nobody knows about it. When you get to the site, click on "product", it will tell you about it.
You're welcome. :) :) :)
Paul K | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:51:01 PM |
Seeing how you don't really have to do anything anymore to get a Nobel prize...
Actually, if you look at the list of past winners, you'll see it's been like that for awhile now.
I got mine in a "Cracker Jax" box!  | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:30:51 AM | While I love the idea of running a car on water however the hurtles are pretty big ones to try to overcome with the major issue being the storage.
HOWEVER, I think it has a pretty darn good use with just a slightly different way to think about it.
The major issues with using water for a fuel source are the size and weight of a tank that could hold enough H makes portability and issue.
Another major issue which is the one that most dwell on is the amount of energy it takes to split the H and the O negates the benefit but that assumption is based on using fosel fuel energy production used to seperate.
And lastly as well as likely the most important hurtle is sad to say MONEY... The ones with money enough to spend on it want the ability for those investments to offer a return and increase to justify it. Frankly there would not be that ability if you could just pull over and piss in your gas tank to finish your journey home.
Instead i see it as having viability if instead of focusing on burning it in all the cars to instead build power plants in the desert areas and use solar and/or wind energy in the spliting process.
then use it to power the powerplants with and instead of coal smoke coming out of the big stacks it will be water vapor coming out.
If you have a big plant with huge solar arrays you could make enough of it and since you are in the middle of a desert is the size of the tank needed to hold the H really that big of an issue?
The by product is moisture and i can not see any better of a place than a desert to have a power plant that would work WITH nature by providing moisture to the desert....
Of course that WATER would need to be pumped out into the desert but shoot if pipelines for oil can be made surly it would not be an issue to have water pumped.
So you focus on electric cars that way they can be widly used NOW even using electricity from the current grid and then as new plants are built and come online they can compensate for the increased load on the grid that the vehicle recharging will add.
This also solves the issue of having a benefit for investors. They can still make money by selling the electricity produced and applied to the grid.
We already use the power of water at the hydro electric plants to directly spin a turbine from water flow , but that is a disruption of nature in order to have that ability..aka a damn dam built
A big power plant or many big power plants in the desert makes sense to me using this model
it satisfies the major issues quite nicely.
There are already ones trying to make hydrogen refill stations using similar methods but they are all small scale and again the cars still have to have hydrogen filled into them and since you can not go as far the stations would need to be closer.
I happen to like the way a lot of the research is going... I think we are headed in the right direction now by investing in battery technology... the batteries are the weakest link in using electric cars for many of the same reasons as hydrogen cars
size weight safety and of course the ability to make money offering a supply.
I believe in free markets and projects like this take ALOT of time and money to develope, design, build, and then operate. Also with any new technology adapted for wide spread use, there will be many bugs to iron out in the systems....
I mean lets face it we have had wide spread use of electricity for quite some time and we are just recently focusing on building smart grid technology.... A century of things mostly staying the same.
Power lines are still above ground getting knocked down, still large loss due to transmission lines, and we can not forget something as simple as how you use that electricity
We use a 220 volt water heater to keep our water hot even if we don't need it hot at that moment. hell i personally think all the water heaters are a pretty major usage.
Why can't we have a wide spread change over to those heat on demand systems or shoot make a new type of water heater that uses solar just to keep the water tank above room temp and then just use electricity to give the temp a boost in temp as it leaves the heater tank.
As for hijacking your own thread with a different topic... I think you can figure out why it was deleted... this is a canadian website and Canadians are seen as the cowards of the world.... US are seen as brawn shoot them all let God sort them out type and mexico is seen as a lawless state...
Bottom line those three will never become one unified entity... we as a people are far too different.... the mixing of the three takes place within the US
Our views on life, war, safety, and the governing of the people in their respective countries are not even in the same ZONE on the spectrum to allow a blending if you will
Just my opinions | |
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| The conciousness of water.
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:35:50 AM | I had a few more thoughts to add.
The likelyhood of one of these hydrogen production plants blowing up would be a high number even if a gazzilion safe guards are put in place.
It may be a backwards way to think about it but built it knowing it is going to blow up.
Calculate what the blast radius would be around the tank given its max volume of hydrogen. Put them out in the desert and ensure the power plant is "x" away from the hydrogen storage tank. The solar arrays would be close to the ground so they could still be built near the production and storage mounted on rubber platforms. around the parimiter of the tank build a concrete shock wave deflection ring that would force the shock wave up to prevent it from shattering the solar cells.
It may sound stupid to build something expecting it to blow up but its cheaper than over complicating it with elaborite control systems.
so the tank blows up... build a new storage tank and you are back up and running.... can't tell me the cost of a tank would be more than all the billions spent to safe guard systems that you would be wanting to put in the center of towns as refilling stations.... there is a gas station on every damn corner and with Hydrogen there would need to be more due to having a lower distance of travel per fill up than gasoline.
It is a heak of a lot easier to have a standard electric vehicle plug and have charging stations all over....
cheaper to build as well and easier to maintain if the right system is designed and implimented it could be an automatic process at parking spaces.
like some sensors on the cars that would allow someone to simply park there car in a space where maybe the bumber lines up and the car and parking space will automatically sync up and plug its self in using a simple x,y, z ..3 axis positioning recharge plug.
sorry for the long post i just figured i would offer my thoughts. | |
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