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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/2/2009 10:49:30 PM | Another facet of your personality emerges.....utter dislike of women who were stay at home wives/mothers.....I wonder why?
I don't believe he dislikes women who become stay-at-home moms. Like him, I don't want a housewife, but I couldn't care less if a man wants this - that's his and her prerogative. You always approach this issue with the same angle - it's natural for women to take on this role, to raise the kids. What about women who don't want kids? Take yourself, for example, a 46 year old woman, who already has kids (and grand kids), doesn't want more kids, is back into the dating dance, yet you still want to play the traditional game based on a family raising children. The reality is that you're done doing the raising kids gig, and your entire argument has nothing to do with the current man you are currently dating.
If there are lots of men who have no problem having a wife who is"dependent" financially on them, why is that wrong? It is their choice.
You're right, there's nothing wrong with it, as it is his choice. However, I would be careful using the word "a lot" because there's usually two main reasons for a guy to be happy with a dependent wife:
1. She is raising his kids
2. He likes to control her and likes her to be needy, which is easy to do when she stays at home.
If you're not raising his kids, then there's no reason for you to be dependent on him. You are not playing the role that you consistently advocate and the only other reason why he would want you to stay home and be needy relates to control.
I will say it again and again. It's our differences that make life interesting and diversified. Allow it.
Yes, were different, but I find your ideals boring. I also disagree with your assessment on day care. Day care is only required until they are five years old, at which time they're in school all day. Do you want to stay home at this stage and raise kids that are not home? | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/2/2009 10:54:49 PM | now now Teen.. your teenisms are showing through.. You said:
"there's usually two main reasons for a guy to be happy with a dependent wife"
And nowhere in your list did I see..
GREAT SEX - where the BJ's INCREASED once he said I DO
Shared values
TRUE partnership
On HIS beck and call
You left out other reasons a guy wants a DEPENDENT wife
Damn.. these people are IGNORING my request for INTELLIGENCE | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/2/2009 11:02:11 PM | And nowhere in your list did I see..
GREAT SEX - where the BJ's INCREASED once he said I DO
Shared values
TRUE partnership
On HIS beck and call
-You need a dependent wife to have great sex or BJs?
-A wife needs to be dependent to have shared values? One being needy and the other wanting that would be a shared value, but dependency isn't required for shared values.
-A wife needs to be dependent to have true partnership?
-On his beck and call ties into control.
I disagree with your comments. Also, notice that I said two main reasons. I'm sure you could come up with a million other reasons, but they usually come back to raising kids or control. I like to simplify things.
Keep the cheap shots out. | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/2/2009 11:41:44 PM | They werent cheap at all.. just humorous.. something you missed
Frankly.. It isnt that a man NEEDS a dependent wife for sex.. but you didnt ask that in your earlier post.. You asked the REASONS a man would BE HAPPY WITH a dependent wife.
Pick which question/point you want to base your question on.. Cant go both ways
IF a man is getting MY four reasons.. AND your original two.. to be happy.. then he is happy. Needs versus wants.
Him needing dependency, her needing to be dependent IS a shared value
SOME women DO need to be dependent to have a true partnership. It just has to be with a man who has the other component for that to work. THEN it is a true partnership
Finally.. a man who WANTS to control.. and a woman who wants TO be controlled would certainly fit for a woman who WANTS to be at a man's beck and call. Again a true partnership.
Oh.. You should NEVER leave sex out of your main reasons why the sexes do anything. It's ALL about.. and certainly primarily about SEX.. Otherwise humans would gravitate to isolationism and NOT gather in any manner.. not as mates, not as communities.. not for any reason. | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/2/2009 11:57:15 PM | I think you missed the point. I wasn't using the term "need" in terms of a human need. I was using it to emphasize a requirement for "ABC".
I said a man wants a dependent wife for two main reasons: raising kids or issues relating to control.
You said that I left these out:
GREAT SEX - where the BJ's INCREASED once he said I DO
Shared values
TRUE partnership
On HIS beck and call
I asked: a guy needs a dependent wife for great sex and BJs? "Need" as in it's a requirement for great sex and BJs? Which would mean that an independent wife couldn't provide these things.
The same would hold true for the others. Dependency is a requirement for them to hold true, which is a fallacy.
Yes, we all want sex, and this includes dependent and independent wives. I would also say that we all want attachment and companionship, but I get the feeling that you wouldn't agree.
Out of curiosity, what type of woman do you seek and why? | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 4:59:42 AM |
I'm curious, so I have to ask. I was with you through the whole bit about how what you cannot do is find a man your age. Understandable, and I trust that you're in a position to make that assertion. You lost me, however, when you went on to say why (the implication being that you're an "independent" woman and the men your age are only interested in "dependent" women).
I used EXACTLY the same criteria that the OP used for his broad statement....what I've READ in forums. No, of course there were questionnaires, and...if there had been, I'd have simply distributed them to ONLY those people who I already knew would support my desired generalization. (Isn't that how this all works?)
The OP came to the conclusion that men have no chance at all for a relationship...(the ONLY criteria he's mention for this assessment is what he's read in fourms).
How have you ascertained this? Have your dates been filling out post-date questionnaires? Have you actually accumulated a statistically significant number of these? How did the OP ascertain HIS data? (from what he read in forums)
Oh.. booboo.. you are exempt since on page 3 you already said you support the general male point of view.. but you can if you want LOL! not only that, but I KNOW "Who John Galt is!"
GAWD!!! What ARE we thinking.....asking for intelligence...AND personal responsibility!!! | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 6:43:56 AM |
I used EXACTLY the same criteria that the OP used for his broad statement....what I've READ in forums. No, of course there were questionnaires, and...if there had been, I'd have simply distributed them to ONLY those people who I already knew would support my desired generalization. (Isn't that how this all works?)
So, basically, you've opted to employ a strategy wherein you respond to something that is wrong with something that is equally wrong, but in the opposite direction. Understood. Thanks for the clarification. | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:00:43 AM | So, basically, you've opted to employ a strategy wherein you respond to something that is wrong with something that is equally wrong, but in the opposite direction. Understood. Thanks for the clarification.  Precisely. Even when they fail to understand the same language that THEY themselves speak, there's always the laws of physics LOL! Think martial arts...it's easier to use their own momentum to help them fall on their face than it is to stop that momentum and turn it in another direction.
Sounds like you're doing OK.
How do you feel when men are focussed on your wealth? LOL! how could that possibly happen? Everyone knows that women are needy golddiggers....if there's one who isn't....then she has some other fatal flaw......like....doesn't provide a man with any reason to whine about being taken to the cleaners by some greedy female.
I realize there are some that have inner fortatude and dont succume to that, but I cant help realizing that many bypass what they value as meaningful to a succesful relationship. I.E. those who don't succumb to greed; are summarily dismissed as being "masculine" or "independent". LOL! it's the old...."well, I'd avoid my abusive boyfriend, but we hang out at the same bar" EXCUSE. God forbid we should ever solve our own problems by employing a little common sense, huh? | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:21:55 AM |
What is wrong is when a woman like my son's lady takes advantage of "feminism" and makes him do things while she lies around "not feeling well." I can understand a few days here and there, but this has been going on consistantly for months.
[snip]
My son has temporarily lost his cojones, but they are on the way back. He doesn't go long without them. I think he just loved this lady too much and she is taking advantage. Hopefully, the balance will level out shortly. I will see how I can diplomatically influence my dear daughter-in-law with the gentlest of nudges.
Um...this wouldn't by any chance be the same son in the same couple who's asses you blew smoke straight up declaring that "This is what a REAL man does for his woman...they are the perfect couple" amid one of the many "Who Pays" threads...is it?
Odd that now you out her as the useless turd that we were describing in that thread, and that your son has been without his ballsac for months now as a result (and by your own admission no less).
Kinda puts everything you've ever said on these boards in perspective now.
Flawed. Simply. | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:22:08 AM | What was this thread about again??? I am really confused because these last few pages I have read seem to blend into every other thread I have read here. Seems everyone is out to prove themselves a winner... oddly All I see is continuous sparring and no clear winner.
Round(thread) after ROund(thread) the old "us against them" keeps getting pounded away at.
Quality of life is highly subjective as is the amount of love & cash required for it.
Personally, I will be happy when I meet someone who cares most about how enjoyable the rest of our lives are together and hopefully we have mutual feelings on what that quality is.... and frankly, how to get it.
I have noticed lately that North American Society creates a life that is measured by material gain for the most part. I observe people obsessing about what they may purchase next, even when they have a perfectly good (insert whatever product here).
For me... as long as we have enough money (and I honestly don't care how or who gets it) to do the things we want, then it is all good. Life is so short... make the most of it. | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:32:23 AM |
Round(thread) after ROund(thread) the old "us against them" keeps getting pounded away at.
You know, it is pretty curious how many people here seem to view their potential dates as members of an enemy faction. | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:49:49 AM | So, basically, you've opted to employ a strategy wherein you respond to something that is wrong with something that is equally wrong, but in the opposite direction. Understood. Thanks for the clarification. Precisely. Even when they fail to understand the same language that THEY themselves speak, there's always the laws of physics LOL! Think martial arts...it's easier to use their own momentum to help them fall on their face than it is to stop that momentum and turn it in another direction.
No, what you did was hijack the thread in your very first post with a diatribe on how men were at fault when the OP asked about how materialistic is appears society has become, and how it particularly seems to be a huge influence on women.
Ya, it's a "man's" fault that some women are materialistic.
Sounds like you're doing OK.
How do you feel when men are focussed on your wealth? LOL! how could that possibly happen? Everyone knows that women are needy golddiggers....if there's one who isn't....then she has some other fatal flaw......like....doesn't provide a man with any reason to whine about being taken to the cleaners by some greedy female.
Classic.
Can't even answer a direct question. Just go off on a strawman, and a diatribe instead.
I don't think it's the men you meet, having a "problem" not being able to deal with your "independence", as you claim....
What was this thread about again??? I am really confused because these last few pages I have read seem to blend into every other thread I have read here.
All the diatribes and strawmen have a tendency to derail a thread.
Here is the topic in a nutshell.
The topic is about how it seems as a society we seem to have become more and more focussed on material things, and material gain, and how that translates into dating and relationships, and how women (in general) seem to be most prone to making material things and wealth a primary focus on filtering men. | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:50:36 AM | Haven't read all the threads because I see it is, as always, descending into attacks on the OP. But, since he asked. It matters to me what a man does for a living and how much he makes. I have dated men who are blue collar or not at my financial level. Never works. The friends are different, the circles are different.
So tired of men and the goldiggers comments. That is so 1950. It comes from insecure men. I have my own business, own my home, make good money and have a good lifestyle. I am not interested in a man who does not share that lifestyle. I have a good life, why should I settle for somebody who is either broke or going nowhere. It's all about choice and we all have the right to make that choice. I don't want to have to worry about money, constantly negotiate who pays what because the incomes are so unequal.
I've worked hard to achieve my success- and continue to work hard. I want a man who has done the same. A successful man is always more attractive than one who isn't. And yes, I do judge one element of success by what you have done with your career. And I recognize that's not the only criteria- but it is a screening one for me. | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:53:27 AM | The topic is about how it seems as a society we seem to have become more and more focussed on material things, and material gain, and how that translates into dating and relationships, and how women (in general) seem to be most prone to making material things and wealth a primary focus on filtering men.
OMG!!!! YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!! I REPENT!!! I REPENT!!! I REPENT!!!!
Here all these years I didn't even know that I've been a gold digger all along! how will I ever redeem myself??? How terribly insensitive it was of me to earn more than my husband all those years....and sending him to college....HOW will he ever forgive me??? I'm EVIL I tell you...simply EVIL!!!! The man is a Saint for putting up with my terrible "masculine" bill paying for over 25 years!!! LOL! are you sure you're not a Baptist ? I used to hear that from them all the time (Damn women, working and paying bills...they should be STONED!)
I have my own business, own my home, make good money and have a good lifestyle. I am not interested in a man who does not share that lifestyle. I have a good life, why should I settle for somebody who is either broke or going nowhere. It's all about choice and we all have the right to make that choice. I don't want to have to worry about money, constantly negotiate who pays what because the incomes are so unequal. LOL! Well Northern.....All I can say is.....You'd better REPENT now for your evil money earning ways!!!! Apparently you didn't get the memo that says all women are needy gold diggers!
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:01:50 AM | BDJ...
Not really. I understand the fact of what men will do for a lady when he's in love. Now that some of the bloom has worn off, and he's got his rose-coloured spectacles off, I am sure that he will let her know that the attitude is not endearing. He has already given her fair warning that it's going to stop. He usually keeps to his word.
Now is the first big test of the relationship, like all relationships go through. We will see what happens.
As for my husband's reasons for being happy with me being finanacially dependent?
GREAT SEX - where the BJ's INCREASED once he said I DO
Shared values
TRUE partnership
On HIS beck and call...on his 4-5 days off in a row to go and have fun. While he worked his 4 (12 hr) shifts I did all of the work in and outside of the house so that I could be available for him. And never was he a control freak. He was more like a Peter Pan who really enjoyed life and left me to do the practical stuff.
My man who I am with now is somewhat like this, too. He loves it when he has days off and wants me to be there with him when he goes here and there. He's talked about retirement and wants me to retire around the same time so that we can do things and enjoy life.
The man that I was with before has retired and wanted me to retire, too. He wanted to travel the world and wanted me with him. He didn't mind me being partly financially dependent on him. Again, he was not controlling. He loved my company.
I know it's hard for you to comprehend, Teen, but there are lots of men out there who really are not control freaks and they really honestly like a woman's company and love. Money, to them is not an issue. It's to be enjoyed. | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:08:46 AM |
I know it's hard for you to comprehend, Teen, but there are lots of men out there who really are not control freaks and they really honestly like a woman's company and love. Money, to them is not an issue. It's to be enjoyed.  What's even more fun, is that there ARE a few men, albeit...most of them 10 yrs younger than me....who don't have a cow over the fact that I have a retirement income from working 30+ years rather than having extorted it from an ex husband through alimony.
LOL! go figure....why do these guys find it perfectly ok to accept a woman's income if it comes from her ex...but can't handle the thought that she worked for it herself? | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:18:48 AM | Northern[[[I have a good life, why should I settle for somebody who is either broke or going nowhere. ]]]
I think that most men here would salute you, and are trying to point out that they feel the same way about women who are going nowhere and doing nothing.There may be a few who think people who are achievers, should date the non achievers, but I haven't seen alot of those. I do think there are some unsung achievers, such as the woman who gives up her schooling to work and put her husband through med school. Stay at home Moms, or Dads, who actually do the job right. It can be tough for that woman who did any of this, and then become single. Her achievement may not leave her with any money to offer into a relationship. Yet, look at what she did. She supported a man who was supposed to stick aound. I guess there are men who wont date her, because she has no money or skills to speak of, that would be needed in a new relationship. I wont forget to mention the men who lost so much in their divorces, and by the time they pay the child support, and other bills, they have nothing financially to offer into a new relationship. Do I blame the people who dont want to date these unsung achievers? No. I do feel bad that this isn't a perfect world. | |
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Savona
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Joined: 7/14/2009
Msg: 169 | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:38:59 AM |
I've worked hard to achieve my success- and continue to work hard. I want a man who has done the same. A successful man is always more attractive than one who isn't. And yes, I do judge one element of success by what you have done with your career. And I recognize that's not the only criteria- but it is a screening one for me.
You only judge one who can fit with your criteria. Many guys here need to find women to pay their "LOVE" and "Quality of life"... | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:40:36 AM | Never works. The friends are different, the circles are different. Well, that seems a bit off topic; regardless, I don't date someone for who their friends are, I date them for who they are. Most relationships come with new circle of friends anyway, everyone has different types of friends.
So tired of men and the goldiggers comments. That is so 1950. It comes from insecure men. No, it comes from realists, men might bring it up more often than women but that is mostly because women are still somewhat socially compelled to feel entitled to a mans income(remnants of those 1950's, it wasn't that long ago). You may not be one but golddiggers aren't a myth, they do exist. A golddigger is someone who feels entitled to their partners income and are unwilling to support themselves. They pretend to love the someone while really only caring about the material gains that person provides. A golddigger is someone who isn't happy with their current means and lifestyle and, as a result, will try to leech off of someone else's to improve theirs(materialistic); someone who isn't a golddigger will be happy with their means regardless of their income(not materialistic) and will not seek another persons income.
I have my own business, own my home, make good money and have a good lifestyle. I am not interested in a man who does not share that lifestyle.
That's all great, good for you, but you have to remember that you acquired these things for yourself and not for someone else. If you were to meet someone who made less money but was perfectly content with their lifestyle, why does it even matter? Wouldn't you want someone who loves you for who you are and not for your business, home, money or lifestyle? To me these all seem like very shallow, superficial and volatile concepts to judge someone on. Possessions will come and go, people can make it big or lose everything within the blink of an eye.
I don't want to have to worry about money, constantly negotiate who pays what because the incomes are so unequal. So by that logic you wouldn't date any man with a higher income than yourself since the same principle of arguing for money would apply there as well? or is this another case of "my income is my income, his income is our income"? | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:42:48 AM | So tired of men and the goldiggers comments.
I don't know why. A "goldigger" is someone who is focussed on benefitting from someone else's wealth, and sponging from them. It doesn't appear that that is your MO.
I have my own business, own my home, make good money and have a good lifestyle. I am not interested in a man who does not share that lifestyle. I have a good life, why should I settle for somebody who is either broke or going nowhere. It's all about choice and we all have the right to make that choice. I don't want to have to worry about money, constantly negotiate who pays what because the incomes are so unequal.
Priceless...
I'd be interested to hear the comments and criticisms from the women, on a post made by a woman, who feels the same about her "money" as many men do, which is, "what's mine is mine, what's yours is yours", and not wanting someone who is going to freeload and benefit from the other's spoils.
I wonder if we'll get the "cheap", "stingy", "selfish" derisives thrown at her that would be thrown at men making the exact same comments?
I've worked hard to achieve my success- and continue to work hard. I want a man who has done the same. A successful man is always more attractive than one who isn't. And yes, I do judge one element of success by what you have done with your career. And I recognize that's not the only criteria- but it is a screening one for me.
You're want to avoid a financial liability. I get it.
The topic is about how it seems as a society we seem to have become more and more focussed on material things, and material gain, and how that translates into dating and relationships, and how women (in general) seem to be most prone to making material things and wealth a primary focus on filtering men. OMG!!!! YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!! I REPENT!!! I REPENT!!! I REPENT!!!! Here all these years I didn't even know that I've been a gold digger all along! how will I ever redeem myself??? How terribly insensitive it was of me to earn more than my husband all those years....and sending him to college....HOW will he ever forgive me??? I'm EVIL I tell you...simply EVIL!!!! The man is a Saint for putting up with my terrible "masculine" bill paying for over 25 years!!! LOL! are you sure you're not a Baptist ? I used to hear that from them all the time (Damn women, working and paying bills...they should be STONED!)
Clearly your posts indicate you have no interest in discussion.
You're simply a troll.... | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:43:14 AM |
Precisely. Even when they fail to understand the same language that THEY themselves speak, there's always the laws of physics LOL! Think martial arts...it's easier to use their own momentum to help them fall on their face than it is to stop that momentum and turn it in another direction.
Yeah, that's... pretty clearly not what you were trying to accomplish. It was a valiant effort at "retconning" a hypocritical stance, but not particularly credible. | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:44:12 AM | landra and arabianangel: <img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0> <img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0> <img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0> <img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0> <img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0> <img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0> <img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0> <img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0> <img src=http://www.plentyoffish.com/smiles/icon_201.gif border=0>
A man is measured by what he is and what he's got.. and that is confidence and success..
And that goes with women, she has to prove that she is a worthy woman by a good character, has a good job,a nice house in other words financially independent to find her a confidence and successful man. And that is balance aquation...
Men are superior when it comes to conning, I have read some thread how they brainwash women by making her guilty,that she is a golddigger ,a dinner wh*re, ? who pays for vacation? dates ? She did not give her share of starbuck coffee/ hamburger, I will only date a woman who pay for herself etc.etc..
If a woman won't fall for a jobless man she is materialistic, all she thinks is the man's wallet... and so and so on... And I 've read some responses of women here ,that they'd take a man with out money as long as he is a good man. Of course life is a gamble, but some women will not gamble their last 2 bucks for the attention of a man hoping it is the 4 aces of LOVE. they know that the odd is win or lose... But if these women (doesn't care if the man is moneyless and they are willing to pay for their own and pay for him too on the long run) win the love of that man,I don't think they will be happy,to bond with a selfish man for his greed will sap them dried.... | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 9:06:21 AM |
This is a KILLER I am laughing so hard. Oh yeaaaaaa if you men only KNEW how many times when my kids were younger I was asked what I get for support !!!! LOL!!! Only NOW.....it's at least twice I week I get asked how long my alimony lasts!!!
When I tell them that I PAID HIM alimony for 2 years....the guy runs away like a scalded dog!!! LOL!
Lets just be honest ... there is NOTHING a woman on pof can do say or post that would be good enough for all the whinney baby men on these forums. 
You got that right too! LOL! I think they look at it like "wife swapping"... if you get alimony that equals what they pay, then it's an even exchange. If you actually earn your income...then it's like an affront to their "masculinity" having the new woman pay the old one. They don't actually mind "being" kept men...they just don't want it to be that blatantly obvious.
But, I STILL say "BRAVO" to all the men out there with the gumption to date only women who DO work for a living and pay their share of the bills. Saves everyone a whole lot of whining and looking for outside excuses for their own failures in life. | |
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| Love,Quality of life and who pays
Posted: 11/3/2009 9:33:13 AM | This thread, like many threads, has devolved into an 'I'm better than you' or 'Men/Women suck' thread. The way so many conversations decline into 3-year old whine-fests saddens me.
[Edited to reorganize wording] | |
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