| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:25:49 PM | Blisssout....
Take some time and read some scientific studies done on this. It is readily available.
There is enough Lit. on this that I can fill three pages on POF forums...and...yawn....if you are so interested, then look it up. I've done my time doing that when I had questions about female/male sexuality. Google and google and....then go to the local library and read the books.
Please... Think of it as a challenge.  | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:31:15 PM | Some interesting posts, here!
First of all, sex & love needn't compete with each other (versus). One can have sex without love & vice versa. I don't believe it is true that women are emotionally connected with sex, although I do believe that sex is a connector for those who love, and that sex enhances an emotional commitment. Women may be more emotional in general, and I don't see why sex would be any different, given that that is the case. Yes, the lure of sex is used by women, as is the lure of caretaker by men, and yes that has become somewhat "innate", although I prefer to say that I recognize this statement as evidence that things haven't changed all that much, as much as we would like to think they have. Just peruse the forums; they are rampant with proof! In any case, the lure of something, once attained, doesn't provide a stronghold, for either gender.
Bottom line, men and women can enjoy sex without love, and love without sex. Romantic love, however, without good sex, is very difficult to maintain. Just my two cents! | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:42:30 PM | Belle Lass....I find you to be quite ignorant. What I asked was...
Like every time they have sex?
And then I said....
I can't say I am always emotionally connected with sex...heck, sometimes it is a purely physical phenomenon. Maybe I just wasn't a part of this proof...wherever it is you got it from....
So, to reiterate: women like me must not have participated in the study as I find I can separate physical and emotional...or combine them if I so choose. It is not an EVERYTIME thing for me. So, that is probably why I asked if it was every time or just most of the time or some of the time! I am sure there are studies...but I wanted you to maybe point me in the direction of the one that says ALL women are alike and have the same emotional reactions to sex.
I think you have issues where you seem to feel that you are superior to everyone. Usually people are only like that to mask their insecurities.
I am not a feminist at all. I will have arguments about this until I turn red! I feel it went out of control and destroyed an essential part of our social structure.
Wow...this explains a lot. | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:46:44 PM | I like sparring with him. His mind is quite keen.
yes it is...and he doesn't believe a word you write. Other posters besides myself have pointed out certain discrepancies. I wouldn't call exchanges between you and verity 'sparring'. As I understand it, "sparring" denotes a fairly equal contest. Verity runs you over like a steamroller, IMO.
But that's neither here nor there.
being the way it has been for thousands of years and now is innate in us. Why? Are you more knowledgable?
Yes and for thousands of years women of our age would have been left out in the cold to die because we were no longed capable of reproduction. Do you really want to go down THAT road? For thousands of years women were property/chattel, and NO,only the ones of high social station or matriarchal cultures were "treasured". It used to be innate for one man to try and kill another one just because he seemed to be a threat to the tribe or clan. Should we still be following those primordial instincts? For thousands of years a man could have several wives and use female servants/slaves for sexual gratification as well. Should we allow that practice to flourish,since it's probably "innate"?
The comment about someone being emotionally crippled and needing an "intervention" was referring to women in general, not about YOU. Everything isn't just all about you, as you seem to think. Indeed that perception is often what causes a topic you are posting to go off topic, and I for one apologize to the OP and other posters for allowing myself to get sucked into it.
Sex VERSUS love? No. The two are not adversaries.
edit
So, to reiterate: women like me must not have participated in the study as I find I can separate physical and emotional...or combine them if I so choose. It is not an EVERYTIME thing for me. So, that is probably why I asked if it was every time or just most of the time or some of the time! I am sure there are studies...but I wanted you to maybe point me in the direction of the one that says ALL women are alike and have the same emotional reactions to sex.
I think you have issues where you seem to feel that you are superior to everyone. Usually people are only like that to mask their insecurities.
Thank you! That's been my experience as well, but I just couldn't seem to frame a very nice way to say it.
Cindy O | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/5/2009 8:05:08 PM |
So, to reiterate: women like me must not have participated in the study as I find I can separate physical and emotional...or combine them if I so choose. It is not an EVERYTIME thing for me. So, that is probably why I asked if it was every time or just most of the time or some of the time! I am sure there are studies...but I wanted you to maybe point me in the direction of the one that says ALL women are alike and have the same emotional reactions to sex.
I must have been on vacation during this survey as well. I'm glad to have been born with the ability not to get attached or overly involved in response to every sexual encounter, but the option to do so should I choose to. | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/5/2009 8:19:19 PM | Blisssout:
If you choose to be obtuse....go ahead.
So, to reiterate: women like me must not have participated in the study
What study? Did I say study....or scientific studies?
Why? Did you feel left out?
(shakes my head at some women) | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/5/2009 8:50:23 PM | I am pretty sure I am not being overly sensitive nor am I slow to understand.
You said...
***Take some time and read some scientific studies done on this. It is readily available.
There is enough Lit. on this that I can fill three pages on POF forums...and...yawn....if you are so interested, then look it up. I've done my time doing that when I had questions about female/male sexuality. Google and google and....then go to the local library and read the books.
Please... Think of it as a challenge. ***
Don't patronize me.
*** It has been proven that women are emotionally connected with sex. ***
I asked proven by whom or what? Then I said it was a g-e-n-e-r-a-l-i-z-a-t-i-o-n, as it obviously does not apply to me, and as far as I can see two other women agree with me on the matter...so how proven can it really be, especially since I am the one who has to search out your faulty information (how hard would it be to list at least one source?) .
If you had just corrected yourself and said "Yeah, you're right about that...it is proven that MOST or a GREAT DEAL OF women are emotionally connected with sex." But instead you attempt to call me out on what I wrote, when I was really only seeking clarification.
I guess when someone points out your flawed perspective you attempt to denigrate them. Maybe you should take a second here to review everything you have written on this subject, and maybe you will see the faulty logic, assumptive declarations, and countless generalizations you have made.
Please don't assume that because you are 46 you have access to the collective consciousness of women....all I know is that A LOT of people don't agree on different things, and this is one of them. To say otherwise makes you seem pompous and narrow-minded.
Maybe you should give your head a shake....some women! | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:03:05 PM | Blisssout makes sense , but some may be missing the point. Or maybe not. Guess my question for those women who say they cannot have sex with a man unless there is an emotional or love connection. Have you never just wanted sex for relief and not for love, romance, cuddling ?
Made me think how many many many times when I said to my late husband that I needed sex NOW, that it was purely for relief. There are many sane, wonderful, strong women who know themselves well enough that they can be honest enough to tell the man in their life that they need sex, and its not about making love. Like having a boink buddy who is there when you need relief.
Now I wonder how many women here instigate sex, or do they expect the man to make the first more or ask for sex?
~Beth~ | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:04:04 PM | Most of science accepts that "rhetoric" as being the way it has been for thousands of years and now is innate in us. Why? Are you more knowledgable?
Rhetoric is the art of persuasive speaking. It is not an innate quality, it is a skill that is learned.
Duly noted... | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:19:52 AM |
that women and men are evolutionally wired in the exact same way when it comes to sex
Wrongo.
Sex, the limbic system, and women:
Whenever a person is sexually involved with another person, neurochemical changes occur in both their brains that encourage limbic, emotional bonding. Yet, limbic bonding is the reason casual sex doesn’t really work for most people on a whole mind and body level. Two people may decide to have sex “just for the fun of it,” yet something is occurring on another level they might not have decided on at all: Sex is enhancing an emotional bond between them whether they want it or not. One person, often the woman, is bound to form an attachment and will get hurt when the affair ends. The reason it is usually the woman is that the size of a female’s limbic system, in comparison to the rest of her brain, is larger than it is for a man. Consequently, she is more likely to get limbically connected.
Now, to inanity.
Normal men don't need an emotional connection to enjoy sex. It's simply a fact of life. We are sexual beings. In my entire life experience... high school, college, service, professional life, travels, etc.. I have NEVER met a man who needed to be "in love" in order to enjoy sex.
Oh, I just love the type that insists HE is the holder of Absolute Truth about All Men.
 That's a sure sign of a guy waving a Big Red Flag with 'I'm an Idiot' on it.
You won't find any threads with me complaining about women not responding to e-mail and not being able to get dates and other such nonsense.... it simply hasn't been a problem for me...
Can't imagine why guys like you are sleeping alone..
One of those sad sorts that confuse 'quantity' with 'quality'.
Here's the deal, boyo. There's plenty of people who will settle for McDonald's. It's fast and easily available and, when you're done, your needs are quelled. However, there's a whole lot of us who despise the lousy taste it leaves in your mouth and the unsatisfying after-effects. We'd rather eat at home than settle for fast food garbage. We'll keep an eye out for a great restaurant and, when we go, we'll fully enjoy a delicious meal prepared with care.
You can have your vast quantities of unattached, 'scratch the itch' sex if that floats your boat. You can also convince yourself that you are living large and that the number of orifices you've managed to visit makes you, somehow, more of a man.
But to those of us who enjoy greater pleasures, you're just a sad little Mickey D addict whose tastes never matured into appreciating the truly great dishes. And then you make a buffoon of yourself by preening and crowing about how many burgers you've shoved down your gullet.
We're not impressed. At all. You're undiscerning and uninvolved and you think that's admirable? 
Have you never just wanted sex for relief and not for love, romance, cuddling ?
Yep. That's a do-it-yourself project. Works perfectly fine. No hassles. No wierdness. No awkwardness. And it's done well and efficiently. | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:03:40 AM | Blisssout:
guess when someone points out your flawed perspective you attempt to denigrate them. Maybe you should take a second here to review everything you have written on this subject, and maybe you will see the faulty logic, assumptive declarations, and countless generalizations you have made.
And....did I miss out that you are some kind of omnipotent???? You have more knowledge than I??? At your age??? (You brought up age) Pardon me. (shakes my head again)
Start with Merrylass's post. It is just a start. Then a visit to your library.
If you are going to call me out then PROVE it.
Rhetoric is the art of persuasive speaking. It is not an innate quality, it is a skill that is learned.
You are correct.
Most of science accepts that "rhetoric" as being the way it has been for thousands of years and now is innate in us.
I should have said "Most of scientific fields that deal with anthropology, psychology, sexology, biology and humanology accepts what you called rhetoric as anything that has been basically unchanged for thousands of years as being innate in us."
Clearer?
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:14:24 AM |
guess when someone points out your flawed perspective you attempt to denigrate them. Maybe you should take a second here to review everything you have written on this subject, and maybe you will see the faulty logic, assumptive declarations, and countless generalizations you have made.
If you are going to call me out then PROVE it.
Allow me.
It has been proven that women are emotionally connected with sex
This actually is a triple whammy - faulty logic, an assumptive declaration and a generalisation.
Where has it be proven?
How do you explain all the females here who have said they have had sex and not formed an emotional connection? | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:44:03 AM | FFS...
Read MerryLass's post.
Then...shall we sit down and talk about disassociation/disconnection with their emotions that some people suffer from? Especially women and sex?
Most prostitutes have to do this so that they can survive on the streets. Also, drugs help them disconnect, too. That is a well known fact.
Does that make me say that women who indulge in promiscuity are on the same level as prostitutes? Nope. I am only talking about some women who are disconnected emotionally from their core because of past hurts and now can have the sex act like it was nothing....no biggie. I think Cindy tried to cover that base by saying in so many words "subject thyself to hurts and pain so that you won't feel anymore after awhile when you have sex that is not up to your expectations....in other words...crappy sex"
Or...if you had expectations of a relationship of sorts. There is a reason why she was skidding around with this prescription for lessening the emotional pain factor.
That is key.
She hurriedly tried to cover he hole. But it's a big one.
The conditioning of oneself to pain to not feel anymore? That apparently does work, I see.
I prefer to have sex with someone who has great feelings for me and is caring and considerate of me.
So, in essense, a woman can have sex if she goes into it with a disconnect from her emotions. She probably is better off with a ONS. If she has sex more than once with the same guy because he floats her boat, then I really hope that she has her heart locked up if he is calling the shots and it is FWB or FB.
In summary? Those darn emotions are there. Just learn what POWs have learned for years. Disconnect.
So...I can say not all women are connected emotionally when they have sex. Healthy?
Ask a guy what it feels like to bed a woman who is disconnected emotionally from him so that she can't get hurt. My S/O says that would feel nasty.
There are men out there who had wives that were emotionally disconnected from them while having sex. One guy said his wife read a book while he got his rocks off.
Healthy? Something to brag about?
I guess it takes a helluva woman to brag about being that way. Good on you.
Don't tell us that it is a "right" way to be. Anything that has the potential to cause pain and anguish is not good in anyone's book.
If you are horny, and decide to accept emotionless sex, then don't glorify it. You just did something that scratched an itch.
That is it.
Oh by the way...did you find out whether I was engaged three times? I'd like to know if I was. I am still looking for those enagement rings as I like to collect them. I simply can't find them. | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:45:23 AM |
When I have sex with the person I love, I'm making love. Sex without love is nothing more than a mechanical, functional act. Making love is completely different, it's an expression of so many indescribable emotions, thoughts and feelings. I can't have sex with someone I don't love.
Woody Allen once said: 'Sex without love is a meaningless experience..but, as far as meaningless experiences go....!' lol
I know you were only speaking for yourself Nu, I for one am quite capable of having sex with a like-minded friend purely for it's own sake, with no expectation of a relationship. It's what many people do in between relationships. | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:02:32 AM |
guess it takes a helluva woman to brag about being that way. Good on you
I'm not bragging about anything. I wasn't talking about myself. I was simply pointing out one example of your faulty logic, assumptive declarations, and countless generalizations.
Does that make me say that women who indulge in promiscuity are on the same level as prostitutes? Nope. I am only talking about some women who are disconnected emotionally from their core because of past hurts and now can have the sex act like it was nothing....no biggie
Aside from the fact that this is the first time in, I think, four pages of your posts you have mentioned this disclaimer...
1. A woman who has casual sex (as in, not in a recognised "relationship") isn't necessarily promiscuous and may not regard it as "nothing", but may see sex as extremely important to her emotional and physical wellbeing and her general happiness.
2. A woman who has sex without emotion is not necessarily disconnected from her core because of past hurts.
asydneymale:
Woody Allen once said: 'Sex without love is a meaningless experience..but, as far as meaningless experiences go....!'
He also said "Sex is the most fun you can have without actually laughing''..lol..
\/\/\/\/
Edit: Well, maybe a quiet chuckle...and it really depends on when - timing is everything...
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:06:40 AM |
He also said "Sex is the most fun you can have without actually laughing''..lol..
You mean, you're not allowed to laugh FFS?
1. A woman who has casual sex (as in, not in a recognised "relationship") isn't necessarily promiscuous and may not regard it as "nothing", but may see sex as extremely important to her emotional and physical wellbeing and her general happiness.
2. A woman who has sex without emotion is not necessarily disonnected from her core because of past hurts.
Agree on both counts, nobody has to be 'damaged' or 'promiscuous' to want to do it. I think some people on this thread are trying to project their own moral compass on others, I'll make up my own mind thanks very much. | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:17:23 AM | It has been proven that women are emotionally connected with sex
This actually is a triple whammy - faulty logic, an assumptive declaration and a generalisation.
Where has it be proven?
How do you explain all the females here who have said they have had sex and not formed an emotional connection?
Actually Id like to know that too.
I can have sex with a man and never develop an emotional connection.
Have I? Yes. Thats how I figured it out about myself.
My first LTR... was with the guy for 3 years... the sex was awesome, he was a wonderful man and attractive. Never had any feelings for him whatsoever... there was no deep connection.
So will I now? Nope.
It means nothing to me. Not even for the most part pleasurable. Makes me feel empty.
And has the great capacity to hurt other people if they're having sex as an expression of their love for me.
I fall inlove with the MAN ... not his d*ck and certainly not what he does with it
You could have Super D*ck with magical powers... and it wont make an iota of difference to me.
Thats why the qualities my partner possesses are so important to me along with my feelings... not his d*ck... not his money... his qualities as a person. THATS what I love about a man I have feelings for and will bind me to him.
Sex is an extenstion of my feelings AFTER I have them... but its not the physical act itself that bonds me
For some people... maybe the chase and the game is what inspires their sexual interest.
But for me... its the commitment.
Maybe thats why some people are monogamous and others are not... or why some people are happy with just "anybody" or FWB... because if Im apart from a man I love... its HIM I miss... not his d*ck.
Thats just a "bonus"
And by all accounts... if sex was binding... then people in FWB situations wouldnt still keep looking. Either gender.
It seems simple to me. Sex is like drinking beer--its an activity
Yeah thats kinda the point...
...having sex with a man I have no feelings for... is as pleasurable as drinking that beer and thats what Id prefer to do
Gimme a man Im inlove with though... and I cant get enough of him 
So just a comment to this VVV
So, in essense, a woman can have sex if she goes into it with a disconnect from her emotions.
She doesnt have to be disconnected... she doesnt have to not have the capacity to feel... she just doesnt have to have them for a man.
Whether she chooses to still have sex with another individual is completely up to her because whether she chooses to do it with a man or not... doesnt mean her libido is broken.
As I said previously... I get no satisfaction out of random sexual relations with just anybody.
So personally Id like to keep my sexual encounters... as a little bit more important in my life than drinking that beer.
But thats just me.
Cheers. | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:24:03 AM | | Casual sex might be like drinking a beer as you say but there is a big difference. With a few casual beers you will get a hangover that goes away. With a few sexual encounters you will possibly get an std that will hang around forever. I would say there is a BIG difference between a casual beer and casual sex, my friends. | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:57:22 AM | ^^^but the term "casual sex" covers so many different types of encounters. You can, for example, have a casual sexual relationship which can be monogamous.
And STDs aren't relegated to those who have sex outside a recognised relationship model. You can be monogamous, but your partner may not.
That's why it is ridiculous to claim one truth - one definition - for the myriads of sexual connections formed by billions of people. | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:29:44 AM | the term "casual sex" covers so many different types of encounters. You can, for example, have a casual sexual relationship which can be monogamous.
Thats exactly right.
People can all the time. Whether they do or not... is another thing.
The last relationship I had was monogamous and sexual
Was more full on in the capacity of a relationship than anything Ive been involved with in the last 13 years.
And when we parted... I cried. But not for HIM. I wasnt inlove with him and he wasnt with me.
Ive not missed him a day.
He didnt hurt me. I hurt myself.
I cried because it was nice after sooooooooo long to experience all those lovely other facets of a relationship I missed. It reminded me.
That I missed... with a person I loved... and who loved me... all those things I could have been sharing and giving.
I knew it would finish... it was finite.
Because thats what happens with relationships of any type... that arent based on love.
And why the memories of those we truly do love live on.
Why other people do the things they do... I dont have an answer but for me...
...you know what? after 13 years alone... if just for a moment... and not having a man in my life that loves or cares for me... I got to live it.
And maybe its enough to take me through another 13 years alone.
But I do know... if thats what other women are doing... Id hate to feel that pain all the time.
So I dont think its the sex that binds them... or being able to disconnect themselves emotionally that they do it... or that they dont have feelings.
I think ... they're just human... and even for a brief moment... even if its not true... want to feel loved.
And I think... men do it too. | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:39:22 AM |
think ... they're just human... and even for a brief moment... even if its not true... want to feel loved.
Thank you. You said it.
Want to feel loved...that is emotional. All of your "I don't care posts" is not going to erase this one sentence.
FFS: if you want to think and act like a man sexually like ASydneyMale does. Go ahead.
I think/suspect (assuming) you are used to being that way and have for a long time. When you have conditioned yourself to be that way, it is hard to be any other way after awhile.
I wonder....try something here. Go back down memory lane. When you were in love with your first/second boyfriend who you did have sex with. Have a visit with that girl, that girl was who you were before all the adult coping skills came into play.
Remember her emotions. They were real before they were put away. I am not saying that we are to live as teeny-boppers again. No, I am saying it's good to re-visit yourself again time to time. Your whole you was formed from birth to 10 yrs. old. Then the life experiences stepped up after that to continue to shape you... how you handle things. What you do to cope.
Just saying. | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:46:47 AM | Thank you. You said it.
Want to feel loved...that is emotional. All of your "I don't care posts" is not going to erase this one sentence.
Dont quote one line and misrepresent me.
This is what I said.
if thats what other women are doing
I speak for myself. Not other women. Its my opinion on circumstances and reasons that are applicable to me... but not a truth.
Ive been 13 years alone. So nobody gets an apology from me cos I "slipped" once if thats how you want to see it.
And remember... its not the sex that makes it emotional and it certainly doesnt bind them.
Regardless of what they're doing and what they're feeling.
What they do... is no different to people who move from relationship to relationship and person to person to person.
You really think they're any different?
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:54:31 AM | ...my last relationship was also sexually monogomous...
did i love him?...no...
did i love the sex?...yes...
eventually, even having great sex wasn't worth continuing with the relationship...
...but i'm still in love with sex!... | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 5:10:23 AM |
but i'm still in love with sex!...
Me, too! I am in love with the man, too! He's in love with me! Triple enjoyable!!! | |
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| Sex versus love
Posted: 11/6/2009 5:31:10 AM | Not badgerin you here... just making a point.
Me, too! I am in love with the man, too! He's in love with me! Triple enjoyable!!!
Im just curious. How do you really know?
Unless you bond with everybody you sleep with.
I dont.
I know the difference between biochemically bonding with another human being and Love.
They arent the same thing.
I mean afterall... Im gonna take a wild guess here and say he's not your first...
So by process of thought...
if thats what other women are doing
^^^
IE. emotional and you saying yes... that is the case...
VVV
Want to feel loved...that is emotional
Thus
What they do... is no different to people who move from relationship to relationship and person to person to person.
You really think they're any different?
Guess that applies to you too.
You cant tell the difference.
I mean... as long as you're having sex with them... you'll bond with them and think its love.
One is as good as the next... no?
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