| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 10:53:08 AM |
society that promotes an equal health care system for all people
Maybe that's what the society promotes elsewhere, but the society - ok government - in Alberta has been slowly working away at promoting the exact opposite of this.
- there are already many, many pay for health care in many forms, the clinic that my own GP belongs to have a list of things you can pay for.
And really, all of the NHL teams have their own team of Docs etc. Don't suppose that an injured NHL player gets put in the same line for an MRI as John Doe do you?
The wealthy are already getting special treatment, this isn't any different.
I am still not agreeing with the line jumping, but blaming the Flames or the Leafs is pointing the finger in the wrong direction.
Alberta Health Services is firmly who I blame.
Duckett, Liepert, Stelmach I blame even more.
Mostly because I blame them for so many other health issues that I have to deal with.
None of which are flu related.
leipert was a scapegoat
I've either missed some new news today, but even if he was fired, he is responsible, NOT a scapegoat. He is a moron in charge of one the most important portfolios.
The last thing I would like someone to comment on is why it is only the "famous" line jumpers that people are up in arms about? What about your coworker, neighbour, cousin, friend who "jumped" the line last week to get the vaccine? Why is their behaviour any less despicable? | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 10:53:16 AM | @ Trubblemakr.......WHAT ?????? What are you talking about? Do you even know?
Never mind. I haven't been bothering to try to decipher "Trubble-ese" lately so I'm out of practice. I have no inclination to start that again and there are posters here that are much more qualified anyway! 
<div class='quote'>The last thing I would like someone to comment on is why it is only the "famous" line jumpers that people are up in arms about? What about your coworker, neighbour, cousin, friend who "jumped" the line last week to get the vaccine? Why is their behaviour any less despicable?
Me too. That's what I'm wondering. Several people got in line and held spots for their entire families. That isn't line jumping?
Someone said Ron Leipert was a scapegoat? No he wasn't. He was responsible for the goof-up yet he still has his job. The guy under him that got fired was a scapegoat.
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 10:58:02 AM |
why it is only the "famous" line jumpers that people are up in arms about?
You aren't the only one that finds otherwise healthy people jumping the queue distasteful Castaline, it's just that this is Alberta and it's every person for themselves... to hell with the infirm or needy. Didn't you see the earlier post about survival of the fittest? | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 11:40:40 AM | So the team doctor did his job and asked if the team could get vaccines. The health board said yes. They all got vaccines.
I see no line jumping at all. The person who had the line formed in the first place allowed them to go in. You're putting blame on the wrong person.
And as for the high risk group, they don't even really know who those are yet. They have arbitrarily designed high risk to coincide with peoples views. The actual only high risk are those with current conditions including:
* Pregnant women
* People who are obese
* People with heart disease
* People with diabetes
* People with asthma or other chronic lung diseases
* People with kidney disease
* Those with suppressed immune systems, such as people with HIV
* People with neurological and neuromuscular disorders
Of those, pregnant women are supposed to take non-adjuvant vaccines which there are currently zero anyway. (this means they lack the catalyst of mercury and aluminum which are detrimental to the brain development to the baby)
I'm going to go out there and lay blame to every person who is healthy that got a shot... shame on you, you should have let everyone else go first. SO instead of picking out the Calgary Flames as your so called scapegoat for the reason a few innocent people died, at least blanket it to all the healthy individuals who stood in line the first few days. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:06:24 PM | For the luv of God....they attended an approved clinic under the guidelines of the day.
They are constantly in planes breathing recirculated air, waiting in dirty airports exposed to others hacking and coughing, having to use locker rooms in filthy arenas where they occasionally exchange blows with other players, not to mention how sometimes 'fans' spit on them in the penalty box or home bench. There's ground zero for a pandemic spread.
They have families they rarely see so is it fair to ask them to stand in line for the few hours they're in town to be gawked at by both appreciative and unappreciative fans? That's not in their job description, but they certainly are exposed to enough John Q Public to warrant getting the shot without a lotta fuss.
Move on people! | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:52:03 PM | I would only like to see two lists. The first list would be of all the MLA's that have received the H1N1 vaccine. The second list would be of the MLA's that stood in line to receive their shot. I am sure the second list would be shorter then the first. Then lets talk about cue jumpers. Nuff said? Of course I will never see either list, it's one of the Alberta advantages.
We have sent our call center jobs to India and imported the Caste system to Alberta based on 'who you know' and 'what you earn'.
BTW, I have not received nor intend to get vaccinated, I just dislike 'the privileged class' either elected or inherited. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:39:00 PM | kitten..... wahh
they see their families alot more than several tradesmen i know of,m and i didnt see a special line for tradespeople
tradespeople truly have to stay in filthy camps, ewith hundreds of other people from all walks of life, yet still no flu shot special line for them
your arguements of why they deserved special treatment...... moot
and yes it is in their job description to associate with the fans, as its only the fans that make sure they get paid. im not a fan , so reall i could care less if they all lost their jobs n went on welfare.
we are all exposed , thats the point, noone is more exposed than anyone else, except for probably nurses and associated fields and their direct families.
hockey players are less exposed , since they have masks on at games so spare the "they get spit on" crap. any fan that spat on them , would be commiting a criminal act, just like a regular person getting spat on , and could lay charges
it was a private clinic , not a public approved clinic
their being on planes?? well unless they are on public planes which most arent, they would be on a private jet, with themselves and families related to them
so that is another moot point. i never heard of hockey players travelling coach like the rest of the people, like you try to profess
using locker rooms in filthy arenas? scuse me these arent rotten crumbling arenas they play in , these are modern multi million dollar buildings with state of the art air systems and staff that clean it routinely . plus i think air temp at rink level is a little low for open transmission as the fans dont get that close to players. if they do , then add a few sheets of plexiglass
to claim that they are at ground zero for pandemic is inept , ground zero , schools and hospitals
try to at least be a tad realistic
even the news has it right
"Opposition politicians charged the hockey players were given special treatment because of their star status.
"It's a failure of leadership that we are providing vaccines willy-nilly to whoever has money, to whoever has access, when cancer patients, when chronic lung patients, when pregnant women and their children can't get it," said Alberta Liberal Leader David Swann.
"It's a violation of the basic principles of public health care."
NDP Leader Brian Mason accused the government of paying more attention to its pocketbooks than to Albertans who could die without the vaccine.
"The Calgary Flames owners have an investment to protect and together have donated more than $44,000 to the Progressive Conservative Party since 2004," Mason told the legislature.
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:43:35 PM | Ok folks, this has very little to do with line jumping. This was a business decision made by a business. They asked Ab. health for the vaccine as I am sure other organizations did. In this business their success is worth at least 4 million dollars, or two home playoff games. Do the math if they manage to get 12 playoff dates. All of the first week this was available we were all encouraged to get the shot. The Flames asked for the vaccine to protect their investment. I heard the news conference with Ken King the president of the flames and he said they did not know of the looming shortage. Ab. health did.
The fault of all of this must lie on the minister of health, period. His party was elected to govern this province. They absolutely screwed this vaccine up. They knew how many doses they had and if they would have looked at the statistics and demographics of our province they could have easily called the most at risk groups in a logical order like they are now doing. The good news for most people who did not get vaccinated they are getting better in around five days. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:54:18 PM | Hmm. Awesome. My post looks like it was deleted. How great it is to have free speech. Oh wait, I don't on here. Anyhow, 45 you are right on the money. The players had nothing to do with setting up the shots. The managers of the team asked for the shots, and Ab. Health said ok. That is all that happened. It isn't some conspiracy to take shots from little kids and old ladies.
Oh, and BTW. This is not a new virus. The Spanish influinza of 1918 was the same virus. So was the outbreak in the 1970's. Yeah it has mutated slightly, but it is still the same family. Anyone remember the Avion flu or SARS. Those had everyone freaked out too. It seems to be that H1N1 in the flavor of the week. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:04:24 PM |
when pregnant women and their children can't get it," said Alberta Liberal Leader David Swann.
I generally like Dr. Swann, however even he should know that the vaccine for pregnant women hasn't even been released yet - AHS will start administering the unadjunkated (or whatever lol) vaccine tomorrow.
I read an article today in the Globe and Mail that 1/2 of the supply of the vaccine is still warehoused. Now who shall we blame for that? I know, hozabowt the government.
The lovely auditor general had prepared a report prior to last week about how unprepared the pandemic preparedness planners were. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:09:46 PM | | No Cass, it was the Flames that lost the key to the warehouse. And the Leafs have the spare, but it is 3 cm under centre ice. Ha-ha.. The blame for everything should fall directly on the government. I still think that nobody should be allowed in government that has not run a successful business. Business people know how to organize and make things happen. Generally speaking that is. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:43:08 PM |
They asked Ab. health for the vaccine as I am sure other organizations did.
I find that extremely laughable. I'm sure the MLA's got their shots, we know people who work in the health field get theirs (as they should) and others who are 'higher up', or in the public eye as in this case, but provincial employees don't get it. Hell, we don't even get time off to stand in line to get the shot if we choose to get it (I'll pass on it thanks). All we get is 'relaxed' general illness rules where we don't have to get a doc's note if we're off for work for 3 days or more due to flu like symptoms, but we do need to fill out a form and have a commissioner of oaths sign it, and I've been with the gov. long enough to know it doesn't always work that way.
At the end of the day, someone botched this big time, in a huge, huge way, and they're using whoever they can as a scapegoat, pointing fingers every which way (except where they should be pointed) and there are people at risk who are still not getting the shot, which I'm sure they've got stockpiled up somewhere waiting for the next highest bidder. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 8:00:12 PM | This whole mess reeks of politics.
Stelmach better have his resignation speech ready for this weekend party review of his leadership
Of those i know who have been vaccinated so far 3 are sick
1 was rushed to hospital, less than 24 hours after his shot.
His siblings are now also battling h1n1 at home.
yep great product...... lets all see how sick we can make ourselves.
Must be a great profit for the media in this.
Personally I find it amazing that the only Province that couldnt handle the roll out is Alberta. Good job.
And yes any "healthy" person who jumped in line last week should be ashamed of themselves especially knowing full well the vulnerable needed to be taken care of first.
Shame on the flames players for not using their collective brain and pay attention to the world around them and know that this would be a huge issue.
Shame on Stelmach and his pals for Flucking up the provinces image yet again.
I dont think we could ever handle a large scale disaster. it would be every man woman and child for himself/herself. I am sure the people of new orleans can tell us how well that theory works. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 8:46:08 PM |
The Spanish influinza of 1918 was the same virus. So was the outbreak in the 1970's
If it were the same virus then there would be people with immunity - the reason that the pandemic is a big deal is because there aren't any people in the world with immunity so while the disease itself isn't that different from the seasonal flu in terms of symptoms, that we are exposed to every year, the numbers of potential people that can affected is much higher than usual, resulting in a serious impact on the economy, especially if 15% of the population gets it. That means a lot of people not able to work and productivity takes a nose dive.
The proportion of people that die from H1N1 isn't that different (as far as studies have shown to this point) than seasonal flu strains but when it's possible for the whole population to be infected that makes the impact much greater.
It's smart not to panic but it's also smart to be well informed and not take the situation too lightly. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 8:48:45 PM |
If it were the same virus then there would be people with immunity
1918? Hell, even Widow wasn't around then. 1918..like that's WAY long ago..about the same time the Toronto Maple Leafs won the Stanley Cup. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:00:39 PM | Ok, first off I said the virus has mutated. But the H1N1 that is here now is a decendent of the 1918 Spanish flu.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2187567/h1n1_history_and_recent_developments.html
Flus mutate every year. That is why people still get sick every year. Even the Avion Flu was related to H1N1 (Avion is H5N1). | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:05:10 PM |
Flus mutate every year.
They do, but notice it's always about some kinda meat? Swine, Chicken, Mad Cow. I'm thinking Vegan is the way to go, cause I don't imagine there is a brussel sprouts flu | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:08:41 PM | AE-be nicer.This is the anniversary of me as a widow!!! 19 flippin years.
OT-lots of pregnant women have already stood in the lines to receive the regular H1N1 flu vaccine-including my DIL who is expecting twins!! The special vaccine will be available soon! | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:12:46 PM | | I swear there is a cabbage roll flu. I don't really think that I trust any food that cannot run away when scared. But I did have carrots and ceaser dip for dinner. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:07:09 AM | Look out - the worst may be yet to come!
For those not really concerned about the swine flu, consider the following:
1. 3 years ago, Chinese calendar year of the cow. . . Mad Cow disease
2. 2 years ago, Chinese calendar year of the bird . . . Avian flu.
3. This year, Chinese calendar year of the pig . . . Swine flu.
Next year is the year of the c o c k. . . Anybody worried !!! | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/6/2009 5:46:14 AM | [q]Tradespeople truly have to stay in filthy camps, ewith hundreds of other people from all walks of life, yet still no flu shot special line for them[/q]
but trubble, I didn't say anyone was any less deserving .... to continue my comment .... there shoulda been more clinics.....private and public. But their clinic was approved under the guidelines of the day.
Here's one to raise some ire....
if they can cancel a hockey season over contract talks and money, why wouldn't they suspend the season to avert or lessen effects of a worldwide pandemic?
Let the bashing begin. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/6/2009 5:54:26 AM |
if they can cancel a hockey season over contract talks and money, why wouldn't they suspend the season to avert or lessen effects of a worldwide pandemic?
If you could convince the NHL owners and players that by suspending another season, it would put more money in their collective pockets, they would do so. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:42:49 AM | | On the talk of this being the same flu... although it isn't the same they have seen immunity in a lot of our more mature citizens... the spanish influenza was different in that it used your immune system as an attacker where this flu is still believe to be of the attack the immune system varietal... that might change... and all the deaths in Alberta so far are still people who had very compromised respiratory systems... | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:13:39 PM | | I know that a number of employers have offered to have their employees immunized at work. Some have said that they would be receiving it "at the office". How is this OK but for the Flames it is NOT OK??? | |
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