| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:03:29 PM | | Those employers have purchased the vaccine from the manufacturer; they haven't gotten special treatment from our public health care system. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:04:05 PM | | And now another public health official has been turfed for contravening the rules & regulations of Alberta Health services!!! | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/6/2009 11:24:35 PM | The Flames team doctor made a phone call. That's what he's paid to do, look after the team's health and he did his job.
The only reason this is an issue is that the Liberals and the NDP, neither of which have anything to say that anyone wants to hear, as proven by their poll numbers, seem to feel they need to take every opportunity to bash the government that presents itself, or if there isn't one, to make one out of nothing. It's not as if they have a better plan, or really any plan at all, all they're doing is shouting "NO!" like spoiled two year olds.
In a nutshell, this is an example of the first thing wrong with our country today. It's like a couple of little kids, sitting in the backseat of the car with a box of Smarties they're supposed to share. "HE GOT ONE MORE THAN ME!" Then here comes the temper tantrum, played out in things like this, in the media, and in the government.
No wonder nothing changes. Everyone's fighting over the crumbs from a rotten system. You want to make everything equal for everyone? Good, then we all get the worst the system has to offer.
Everyone's surprised that money talks. Of course it does, always has, always will. This is incentive to do what you have to in order to make it to the top tier. Instead of that, people want to cry about how they're getting screwed, meanwhile you enjoy the broken and disfunctional system YOU voted for.
Now here's the funny thing... I once worked on the assembly line at a Chrysler plant. Back in the '80's, when you had to pay for a flu shot, the company and the union used to get together to hold a flu shot clinic right in the plant. The shots were free for everyone who worked there, all you had to do was go to the nurse's office and ask for it. Chrysler picked up the tab, and they weren't the only company doing it. No one had a hissy fit about it either.
Can't help wondering, if it's ok when an employer like Ford or Chrysler, maybe Hiram Walker, Labatt's or CN Rail make an effort to get their employees vaccinated, why is it such a big deal if the employer doing it is the Flames organization?
Personally, I don't see any difference. The Flames got the shot because their team doctor was on the ball enough to make a phone call, that's all.
Sure the government dropped the ball, but don't they always? This is nothing new. It's just business as usual when you're dealing with politicians and bureaucrats who know that no matter how incompetent they are, no matter how bad they are at their jobs, they'll never have to answer for it. Again, this is the system YOU voted for, or allowed to be in place by not voting to change it.
So two people got fired? Big deal, it's just optics. By next week, they'll be working somewhere else, hidden in the bureaucracy where no one will ever hear from them again, while the government staggers on to the next screw-up. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 7:30:25 AM |
It's just business as usual when you're dealing with politicians and bureaucrats who know that no matter how incompetent they are, no matter how bad they are at their jobs, they'll never have to answer for it.
Unless they're so incompetent that they bust their own party during question period. The real problem is not the initial foul up by creating a free for all plan in distributing the shots. Now the real problem is the actual shortage and late production of the stuff by our one and only mandated supplier. So when the liberal health critic starts blasting the federal government for not getting the vaccines out on time, she should have investigated the origins of the problem a little more. The Chretien government thought it would be a good plan to hire one company, pay them 30 million a year to be on call for the last ten year, and now when we actually need them to come through, they're short on bottles and can only produce one type of vaccine before starting on another. They had to finish the regular vaccine first, then pump out some of the h1n1 vaccine, then do a run of the "pregnant chick friendly" version, then back to the "h1n1 for po' folks" again. These should have been done four weeks ago. At least the company we contracted ten years ago has their Canadian headquarters based in Quebec and at least the Liberals got a 57k donantion from them.
I really wonder what we'd do if this were a serious epidemic that didn't require prioritizing vaccines. What if it was Flubola and it didn't matter if you were pregnant, young, old, wheezy? We'd have one producer of the prevention with no reason or excuse to deny anyone their shot. We'd most definitely be on the hook. That's scary. And all for a 57k dollar kitty filler. That's bad. That's scary. They hate you and you know it now.
Everyone's surprised that money talks. Of course it does, always has, always will. This is incentive to do what you have to in order to make it to the top tier.
So the battle goes, capitalism and free markets are never really free and corruption and greed destroy the system eventually while creating class systems that piss poor people off. Look at the greed related nastiness Americans are dealing with now. People are generally evil at heart which makes the other extreme impossible too. Time and time again communal systems of governing and their off shoot economic developments have failed too. Unless North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba and the odd Kitbutz in Israel are shining models of the society you want to live in. Given the choice I'm going to give myself a chance at getting to the "top teir" rather than lining up for my monthly chicken and some cast off milk from the Chernoble "dairy fields". I mean my flu shot. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:00:49 AM | OMG- not more from Chernobyl please!
Great ideas posted here so early on a weekend morning! | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:21:34 AM | Being an Oilers fan it would be real easy to dump on the Flames but pointless!
I'm not upset with the hockey players
I'm not even particularly upset with the two gov't employees that got turfed.......
I am however deeply disgusted , both by the burocrats that totally screwed up when they setup this entire debacle, and more so with the selfish "me-first" people that didn't respect the needs of children, pregnent women, and those with serious health issues...... | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:23:03 AM |
some people acept that rich peoples self interests are more important than the general publics interest
I don't actually think that many of us think that rich peoples self interests are more important.
However, it is pretty much a fact.
Money talks.
Look around at our society and how the famous and wealthy are treated by a lot of the general public.
I frankly could care less about anyone who makes in excess of a million dollars a year. I don't think that anyone is entitled to such outrageous salaries when there are children in this country who go without the basic necessities.
I firmly believe this though, there are thousands of children in CALGARY that go to school hungry, and THAT is a bigger issue to me than whether or not the Flames were wrong . It is also something I can do something about through donations and education. Not much can be done about the fact that the Flames and their families have been vaccinated. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 1:02:02 PM | | Castaline-I am with you regarding the hungry, poorly dressed kids (I mean no coat,boots or mitts for winter type poorly dressed)!!! | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 1:20:42 PM |
Can't help wondering, if it's ok when an employer like Ford or Chrysler, maybe Hiram Walker, Labatt's or CN Rail make an effort to get their employees vaccinated, why is it such a big deal if the employer doing it is the Flames organization?
The big deal is that they got it from the government and received preferential treatment that none of the rest of the taxpayers had access to. The Flames organization did not purchase the flu vaccine on their own - had they done that - good planning on their part, but they didn't and AHS lacked direction to such a degree that someone thought letting a professional hockey team more than capable of purchasing vaccine their own, jump the queue of people who should have the vaccine first. That's what the big deal is. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 1:36:40 PM | Anti Date...that is not correct at all. The Flames organization did not receive preferencial treatment.
As was stated above...it just so happened that their team doctor was on the ball and made a call to get the vaccine for his players.
The team did NOT take vaccines away from those at higher risk...the vaccine was administered before the public clinics were shut down and the government started telling everyone they had run out of vaccine.
They were not vaccinated because they make millions playing hockey.
The did not do anything more unethical than the other 400,000 Albertans who rushed to grab the vaccine did.
The players did not steal it, they did not buy it...they were simply offered the vaccine for themselves and their families by their team doctor.
Big Deal. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 1:46:24 PM | They were not offered the vaccine - they went looking for it. They did receive preferential treatment - if you or I had called AHS to ask to get the vaccine at the Max Bell Arena we would have been turned down and that IS a big deal as it indicates that the high profile of a professional hockey team had an influence on whether or not they got the vaccine. It's a public health care system that is supposed to support equal access to services for all citizens, not quicker access because you are high profile in the community.
AHS should have had clear guidelines distributed to all levels of employees before the vaccine was rolled out but there is a void of leadership. That too is a big deal. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 3:38:01 PM | The players did not go looking for the vaccine....and it seems to be the players that are being attacked for it here. The players were offered the vaccinations by the team doctor and administration...I never stated, ever, that the gov't offered it to them.
So...because gov't officials had no problem saying yes to the team doctor when he called to inquire..by all means, attack the players.
Yes, our health care system is supposed to support equal access to services. Don't kid yourself...it doesn't on any level, for any service.
I've been waiting for over 8 months for knee surgery...still have to wait two more. If I went to Calgary, it would be a 2-3 year wait. Would a professional athlete be waiting more than a month? Not likely.
That doesn't mean i'm ranting and raving and posting everywhere about what selfish jerks professional athletes are...that's just the way our system works, and always has.
The bottom line in this is...it was a government screw up and had nothing to do with hockey players trying to use their careers and fame to take away from the general public...which is what this thread was intended to show. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 4:49:08 PM | AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!!
^^^I thought you were getting your surgery this summer after your trip-yikes what a wait! | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 5:05:46 PM | [calgary]If I went to Calgary it would be a 2-3 year wait....that's just the way our system works,
Or doesn't work. Once you get the knee surgery you can get back in line to fix the opposite hip problem you developed limping around for 3 years. Brutal. Hopefully it goes well for you. Athletes or their teams, like everybody else, can pay for a quicker surgery. I'm never counting on AHC for anything which reminds me. I'd better start saving. At least I get to keep my 44 bucks a month now.
OMG- not more from Chernobyl please!
Oh my yoodness I yorgot the "Y" in "Chairnoble". But really there's a point to it. In Venezuela, they've socialized themselves right out of their local producers of most goods. Or they've got the one chosen producer, much like our flu shot producers. So, they get stuck importing this murky, radio active, Milk-238 that even the Ukranians won't touch. But it meets the price requirements of the Chavez agenda so it's what they get. Once and a while they get normal milk, every six months or so, and then they have line ups much like our flu shot line ups were. They stretch for miles and priority is given to pregnant women, women with children, the elderly, etc. They find guys in line dressed up as women (I don't think that has happened here yet....trubble?) And the going rate for renting a kid to stand in line with you for the day is fifteen bucks. Looks like money does get you to the front of just about any line up quicker. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 5:17:38 PM | Yuck-that is disgusting!!! Think I have a need to be polite!
OMG-I think your spelling mistakes aren't! | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 5:59:01 PM | Yeah....so did I !!
But..apparently when the surgeon writes RUSH....ASAP on the top of your file when she hands it to her receptionist....that receptionist thinks that means, put it in a pile on her desk and wait 6 weeks before looking at it again.
Now...no surgery dates open until the New Year.
Wishing I was a professional athlete right about now....because apparently when the forms ask you if you particpate in sports professionally or recreationally......that determines which pile the biotch at the front desk puts you in.
Should've said I play for the Flames.  | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 7:36:41 PM | Where have you been??? A public apology has been made.
Why would the doctor lose his licence?? He did nothing wrong! Just practising preventative medicine!! | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 7:36:45 PM | Trubble...I'm not sure where you're getting your twisted information from, when the team received their vaccinations....and yes, their children as well.... no one had to 'qualify' to receive a shot !
How many of the 400,000 Albertans that recived their shots that first week had to 'qualify'????? NONE.
There were no regulations put in place yet stating who could receive the vaccines first and who had to wait. Tens of thousands...no, hundreds of thousands, of perfectly fit, healthy people, who are not in high risk catagories wenmt down and stormed these clinics to be first in line for vaccines...giving little thought to the high risk groups.
But...because the NHL players make more money than you.....what they did was so much worse.
Taking up a doctor's time??? He is the team doctor.....that is his job...keeping that team healthy. He works for the team. It was his 'duty' to do his job.
( and just an FYI - doctors are not going down to public clinics to donate their time to give people vaccinations )
Your arguments are illogical and verge on absolutely ridiculous. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:39:11 PM | The media has got things skewed and are making much ado about some hockey players .It is just sensational journalism at its worst!!! | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:54:41 PM | Actually most NHL, and all professional teams, have physicians ...who are not general practioners, they are sport medicine specialists, on staff full time...that is their job...they do not have a 'clinic'. He was not being paid to take care of the public, he was getting paid to take care of the players.
People being lined up for 8 hours had nothing to do with a shortage at the time...it had everything to do with the gov't being disorganized, not having enough public clinics going, having a shortage of nurses to administer the vaccine ( due to their own hiring freeze ) and not organizing the clinics into smaller risk groups in the first place to avoid the mass hysteria that ensued.
The comment about wages is in fact relevant...because it is only people like you who think this has anything at all to do with how much money each player has in the bank. The players did not buy the vaccine, nor did they bribe anyone to get it for them...so their income is completely irrelevent here.
"The news of the day".... no way it could possibly have been a great way to take the heat off of the gov't screw ups and try to lay blame elsewhere....it worked though didn't it...gave people something to biotch about besides the mass screw up over the vaccine fiasco our wonderful government created.
" Forget about what a mess we made of things...just look what these evil, rich hockey players did to screw you all. They're the bad guys...not us."
Seemed to have worked on you. | |
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| calgary flames, line jumpers
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:49:06 PM | | OK the vaccine does not work this way but WHAT IF and I mean a BIG WHAT IF. Having gotten the shot a person does not get the flu but still transmits the virus to others, then by giving this shot to the flames we have made a team of " Typhoid Mary's" infecting thousands! If this happened would we still think that these clowns as so great and wonderful?? | |
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