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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 11:38:10 AM | TuffLuv and GoodeWitch have both struck me as posters that only respond with the same level of aggression they are exposed to, so I am going to try a different approach than some of the guys that have slammed them on this thread - I'm going to attempt to discuss this issue with them respectfully, because their opinion is no less correct than mine, even if we don't agree:
TuffLuv posted:
1.) All these 'reasons' guys are listing on here for why they don't want to get married are BULL CRAP. If they met the love of their life, their dream girl, someone they couldn't live without... they'd get married. Oh yes they would, simply for the fact it would make HER happy and HER happiness is their priority. In fact, marriage would BE their idea...
a) This presumes that all women WANT/NEED to be married, which is false.
b) This also neglects to address the reciprocal sentiment that should be essential to any good relationship - the woman making her man's happiness HER top priority (which may or may not include marriage depending on his beliefs). Two people giving wholly to another is balanced and should come out to a far more positive end than either individual's attempts in isolation. A one-sided devotion is simply a loyal pet.
c) I'll give you this one admission - there is one lady friend of mine whom I'd loved so dearly that I would gladly marry her IF she loved me, but she doesn't. Unless I find someone that evokes as poignant emotions as she did, I see no reason to entertain other girlfriend's desires to get married just because THEY might be ready, so I cut them loose if an impasse occurs and wish them the best. I don't like wasting anyone's time, and I must be doing something right because I've attended several ex's weddings with open arms like one of the family.
2.) Having only one foot in... is the same as having one foot out. You're not in love if you have a 'back door' open for escape.
So what exactly does divorce constitute? Is that not also a "backdoor"? Heck if you're quick enough about it you can even get an annulment...
3.) Sure there are shitty marriages. Doesn't mean every marriage is shitty. Just because you got into a lemon once upon a time doesn't mean every car is not quality.
Sure there are good marriages, but I can guarantee you that if you invested in a lemon once or one of your close friends did, you're going to scrutinize the heck out of that next car purchase before making up your mind...
4.) If you stick around a guy who says 'he doesn't believe in marriage' you are only keeping away from guys who do... when he says something like that... just add the words "to you." Because that is what he really means. And you deserve better than that.
Running from a guy that doesn't believe in marriage is excellent advice PROVIDED marriage is what the woman wants. Your statement is dangerously-close to presuming a gender bias that ALL women WANT to be married.
5.) You won't change their mind. Drop them like a bad habit. They do not love you if they are making you unhappy! Its so simple. Yet so many women don't do it. Bad guys are spoiled by women who put up with shit that only fuels their low self esteem. You deserve better.
I agree with not being able to change someone else, and at that point walking away is the sane thing to do. However if anyone thinks "they do not love you if they are making you unhappy" is an absolute universal principle, then they're going to have problems in future relationships / child-rearing because there are always going to be some hard times where can't always do what the other person WANTS. Sometimes you have to do what YOU want, or what you BELIEVE is in your or the couple/family's best interest. Sometimes this means being the Bad Guy/Girl in the short term to be the Great Guy/Girl in the LONG TERM. I didn't always like my parents for disciplining me, but if I argued that they'd never make me unhappy if they loved me, I'd be sorely mistaken. 
7.) No matter how traumatic a divorce was that he was exposed to in some way... if he loved you truly, he would be so over it. When he says something like that to you... he has weighed the pros and cons... and you are in the con pile and his freedom/money/independence/status are more worthwhile than you being his wife. You deserve better.
Example: I love karate, and at one point in a past tournament I was trip-flipped and crashed down hard on the lower part of my spine. Luckily no serious long-term harm was done, but say it had and I was partially-crippled for years before making a full recovery. Then one day, I decided to get back into the ring again. Would it not be sane to be filled with trepidation given what happened before? Sure it's a new fight that could turn out entirely different, and my BODY may have recovered, but the painful memory of that injured time would give even the stoutest of warriors pause to wonder if they're truly ready to risk themselves to that extent again. That is not selfishness, that is human nature - learning from past mistakes. At the end of the day we would all hope that the we can cross that bridge to be reborn anew, but some people are going to waver and find themselves unable to take another step. 
8.) Why even have the label of boyfriend/girlfriend? Why live together? Why should he remember your birthday? Why should he call you when he says he will? Why... why... why.. why... See, this never ends. ALL OF IT is just signs he is not as into you as you are into him. There is no equality there... these guys on this forum just want the 'upper hand' but a healthy loving relationship ... IS NOT A BATTLE!
A healthy loving relationship isn't a battle, you are very correct, it is a PARTNERSHIP. However some partnerships can thrive on just an honour-bound handshake / verbal contract, while others need more stringent legal bindings in order to survive comfortably (and let's face it, marriage is a tool to create peace of mind and alleviate worries of abandonment). Neither category is less valid than the other, and it is up to the couple to decide what's best for them. A failed relationship that didn't produce a marriage is no less worthy than one that managed to make it, or one that resulted in divorce. In all cases people loved each other, only the duration of the mutual effort differs across the parties.
I hope at the end of the day that EVERYONE in this world is one day fortunate enough to find what they need, and even a little of what they want...   | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 11:42:44 AM | Yari, yeah, this coming from the guy who prefers dogs to women? You need to take out the mirror on yourself, buddy. If it makes you feel better, I have no interest in a guy like you. 
DJ hit the nail on the head... good post. Save the heartache!
Tigerwoods... I was responding to the OP's thread... yeah sure there are some women who don't want to get married, but I'm a woman... most of my friends are women... and yes, we still want to get married more than not.
Also, be careful about comparing man/woman to parent/child... its not the same. You can't choose your parents... and you aren't 'equals' with your parents. But yes there is a difference between mild annoyance at some compromises... and a gnawing feeling in your gut they don't care about you as much as you do them... that makes you profoundly unhappy.
Tiger woods... your karate story actually proves my point... there is a difference if you never got back into the ring again. That would be what living in this indefinite cohabitation was. If the karate ring is like marriage... yes, you should definite think long and hard about if you want to get in the ring again... but you still end up doing it if you LOVE karate. So really...we agree! | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 11:49:08 AM | Tiger Woods..
i agree with your post point for point.
its really all about two people wanting the same thing.
We all tend to speak a bit in absolutes when being challenged,.. but in one of my posts i did say that marriage should be something both want, or its pointless.
I myself never particularly wanted marriage. The marriage i was going to enter into was my way of showing my late fiance that i loved and trusted him enough to give him what he wanted. I wouldnt feel the need to be married now, or in the future, but if it was something a much loved partner wanted, i would consider it again.
There is nothing wrong with not wanting to be married.
i have no wish to 'convert' anyone to marriage as an ideal... I only wished to be a sort of Devils advocate about marriage, because some women and yes, some men want it,.. and it seems realism or cynicism has overtaken so many to such an extent, that it has almost become like a form of fashionable bigotry to despise and look with suspicion upon people who do wish to be married.
To some its the epitome of commitment, and love, to others it is a position of bondage and power brokering that is to be strongly avoided.
neither are right are wrong... all views are valid.
I merely represented some views on perhaps why some people wish to be married,.. and was challenged in a very knee jerk reactionary way, by some. I think Tuff luv summed it up pretty well for me, as I share a lot of her views on this subject. To advise people not to be with someone who isnt on the same page as you, (which is all Tuff luv was really doing) seems a reasonable and sensible viewpoint to me.
Exchange of views.
Thanks
G. xxxx | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:10:47 PM |
Supposedly married men live a longer, less stressful life.
Again, correlation masquerading as causality.
It COULD be that men who are predisposed to being happy (and therefore would have longer lives by default) have longer, less stressful marriages.
It would also be true that men who live with someone get medical treatment in a catastrophic health event, where men who live alone have no such help. | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:14:31 PM | | JCBoston... still doesn't change the advice to the OP... she shouldn't stick around with a guy who is 'predisposed' to being a single user/loser. She should cut ties and find a guy who is happy and committed to her. | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:20:05 PM | Msg:1.
I guessed because of some men thoughts>>>> * Why buy a cow when you can have a free milk*???
Since I am not a man, I don't know what their mind set and reasons, why they don't want to marry, but I'll give it a shot,,,,, I guess the wedding is expensive,house is expensive ,children are expensive, food is expensive, and most men wants to treat a woman for coffee only, and they even complain that Starbuck is expensive ,that if a woman won't pull her weight on her share of coffee expense, she 'd be called Golddigger and Starbuck wh*re...  ps . I still think men are awesome even they don't wanna marry me, I'll kick my but t to pull my weight just to be with a great man... | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:31:57 PM | | Ladies, my hat's off to both of you; you've conducted yourself with class and elegance worthy of the gender labeled as the Fairer Sex. And with that said, I bid you both well and a wonderful weekend! | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:38:36 PM |
Just because some idiots marry, it in no way shows that marriage in itself is idiotic.
i didn't say it did. but losing sight of the reality in favor of some romanticized symbol is. | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:44:08 PM |
JCBoston... still doesn't change the advice to the OP... she shouldn't stick around with a guy who is 'predisposed' to being a single user/loser. She should cut ties and find a guy who is happy and committed to her.
If that's the way a woman truly feels, then yes, she should move along. However, if she feels that way with 10 or 15 men in a row, she might consider looking inward and see if she's predisposed to feeling that way.
Like I said, a relationship is a journey, not a destination. If you feel like the time you have together now will be wasted if you don't get married, then it's already wasted.
If you're unhappy being "just in a relationship" then you will be unhappy in a marriage. | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:44:33 PM | David, look at the OP posting history, she has different post about a specific guy who is yanking her chain and causing her distress... the guy has issues. No doubt. Look at her profile. She is a catch.
If she looks at REALITY... then she would dump him so fast.
Not all symbols are empty BTW. Some have very deep significance.
JCBoston... it doesn't matter if she meets 100 guys in a row who treat her like this. Being alone is preferable to being with someone who makes you feel like less. You're doing both people a favor by ending the relationship. Sometimes people do ill informed things out of crushing loneliness... like accept a guy who is a user.
The power of the 'fearsome' feminism is not making a guy bend to your will... its having the power to say... you will never be what I want you to be... so rather than trying to cajole/wait/manipulate you into doing my bidding etc. I will just find someone else who wants the same things I want ... That is real power. Being self-assured and not lowering one standards of out fear or badgering by the opposite sex.
3 billion men on this planet... why do I need to have heartbreak over you?
You guys are shitting your pants b/c women are *slowly* learning how to date like men. Ie. if he doesn't make me happy/if I am not attracted to him... we are done. Truth is, if every woman valued herself more... stuck to her standards... didn't accept being treated poorly... there would be a sea change in men's behavior towards women. If you act scared and alone and disposable... guys will treat you that way. | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:45:19 PM | Cheers Tuffluv1984 -
LADIES... DO NOT...I REPEAT... DO NOT COHABITATE WITH A GUY WITHOUT A RING ON YA FINGER! One of my friends is going through this, every year for 8 years she has been with this guy they go on a 'break' because he wants to date other people. He knows she will be waiting there for him. The thing is...is the the whole package! Attractive, intelligent, kind, modest... but they are totally not right for each other if he can't see that and stake a claim on that permanently.
If a guy doesn't want to be married to you he is merely 'content'... not in love with you. Sure, 'content' feels nice... but its not the same as LOVE. People don't understand this. You are like his favorite hat... not the love of his life. I'd actually rather be single for the rest of my life then be in this situation. Honestly. Because being single you are actually with someone who LOVES you... you. Some guys are just emotionally dead from the conditioning they receive as boys or whatever... Yarimelma might be a nice guy but when I see him or guys like him... I see emotionally dead. Incapable of love. Totally self-centered. Why would you settle for this?
The above quote summed up my life for a very long time. I'd never live with a man I was not married to again. Nu-uh. I lived with a 'it's just a piece of paper' guy for too long. I won't go into details, but cohabitation without the legal commitment is not for me (and being common law IS very different in a legal sense than being married). I'd rather be single. Cheers! | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:56:50 PM | | Most people these days marry for the wrong reason to the wrong person. Many people are too scared to be "alone", and therefore rush into relationships that they know themselves will fail. I see more women nowadays not interested in marriage than men. TV has glorified women's independence and I've seen many women leave their husbands to regain the Independence they feel they lost when they had a family. I was ready to settle down, fate didn't agree and things ended badly. However I am happy that it all happened now and not later one when I was married. I think people need time for themselves and there is nothing wrong with taking your time to find the right person and settle down when it is right for you. | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:09:49 PM | Being alone is preferable to being with someone who makes you feel like less
If you feel like less because he's not proposing when YOU think he should, then you have issues you need to examine. If he's taking money from you or living in your house or something like that, then yeah, he could be a user. But if the relationship is give and take and the only beef you have is that he hasn't taken that next step, then he's not a user, and you need to either respect him or get the hell out. Chances are, if you leave for that reason alone, it will be your loss, not his.
That is real power. Being self-assured and not lowering one standards of out fear or badgering by the opposite sex.
Well said...which is ANOTHER reason many men don't get married. I'm very self-assured and don't need to be married to be happy (like I felt I did with my first marriage). So it could be that the man you want to propose to you is self-assured and not going to buckle under badgering from the opposite sex.
You guys are shitting your pants b/c women are *slowly* learning how to date like men
Not at all. I welcome that. Beats the hell out of the traditional head-games. It also makes it much easier to find quality. I haven't had a date in several years, but I'm ok with that. I'm very patient. Being with the right person 5 years from now and being alone until then is much better than dating all the wrong people for those 5 years. | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:35:42 PM | True, I don't have a problem with men who don't want to be married... I just don't think women who want to get married should be with them or hold out for an indefinite amount of time when they will never change their minds.
I'm sorry you haven't had a date in years. That sucks but somehow I'm not surprised.
I date, a lot. Because I give men a chance. I just don't give them unwarranted second chances. | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:40:00 PM |
I'm sorry you haven't had a date in years. That sucks
It doesn't suck at all. It's great not NEEDING to do it...it's an awesome feeling of freedom to be able to not settle, as you said. When someone I'm interested enough in comes along, and she's interested too, I'll date her.
somehow I'm not surprised.
Couldn't post without getting a lick in somewhere, eh? | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:18:52 PM | Marriage is a form of trap for men.
Once in marriage he cant get out of it without losing half his wealth.
I was happy to get married the first time becaus eneither of us had anything.
Now I own my own house and car there is no way I would want to give half to someone who had never earned it ! | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:22:18 PM | I don't mind if a guy doesn't want to get married. I respect that. But he should be man enough to be honest, upfront, use clear language, not raise hopes, not string along a woman who has expressed hopes/interest in being married someday. My fellow strung me on for years - promises, somedays, when ___ happens, when we have ___ much money, when the stars are aligned, blah blah....and fell for it.
I would have been happier if he was upfront about his belief that it was 'just a piece of paper'...because it's not for me. | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:41:56 PM | | the whole fact that marriage in the west is legalized and a huge industry (the divorce industry) has been created because of it, really turns most off. divided assets, attorneys, child custody....all the rest. there's no benefit to it with the current laws. | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:51:32 PM |
You guys are shitting your pants b/c women are *slowly* learning how to date like men.
do you mean dating - as in courtship - or doing relationships?
because if it's courtship, i have to tell you i've loved it when women were empowered enough to be active rather than passive.
if it's relationships you mean, i wonder how many women reading this are offended by the idea. not saying they should or shouldn't be. just curious. | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 5:49:14 PM |
You guys are shitting your pants b/c women are *slowly* learning how to date like a man... [/quote/
Really ?? Women learning *slowly* how to date like a man ??? whom are the dating docile women??
Count me out of these women who dates like a man, for Iam appalled to act like a man to a man when it comes to dating /relationship or any other matters. | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:48:31 PM | When you feel the urge to get married is stronger than you can handle, do what I do.
Pick out some *itch you Already don't like and buy her a house and a new car.It's over
a lot quicker,hurts a lot less, and the results are exactly the same.
Hawk | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 10:06:47 PM |
Most people these days marry for the wrong reason to the wrong person. Many people are too scared to be "alone", and therefore rush into relationships that they know themselves will fail. I see more women nowadays not interested in marriage than men. TV has glorified women's independence and I've seen many women leave their husbands to regain the Independence they feel they lost when they had a family. I was ready to settle down, fate didn't agree and things ended badly. However I am happy that it all happened now and not later one when I was married. I think people need time for themselves and there is nothing wrong with taking your time to find the right person and settle down when it is right for you
Avi8tr I agree, in fact it isn't just now days, but has gone on for an extremely long time... Probably since the beginning of marriage...
I don't feel bad for doing things the wrong way the first time around, perhaps I should, however I had things to learn, my ex had things to learn, and yes kids were in the middle...
I didn't have particularly good examples of marriage as a kid, so crash learning for both my ex and I was something we all went through... We are both better people, and neither of us decided to be so horrible that we'd hate each other...
I think it is good advice to the OP to be told to really take your time... OP if it it's the asshat you have written about before, walk away, sometimes that is the easiest way to gain your sanity and life back...
I don't suggest every person to walk away from a relationship because it isn't going their way, however if a person says they don't want to marry, then they mean it about you at least...
It hurts the most when you have put all of your heart and soul into loving this person, but if your goals, and or feelings aren't compatible, then cut your loses, heal and move on... Sometimes love takes time to find, you are 25, and still have so much to offer a really great man, that wants to be a great husband...
If a guy isn't into marriage, and you are, then you have the power do decide, do you want to settle, or do you want to find that guy that wants to marry you? | |
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| Why some men never want marry?
Posted: 11/6/2009 10:39:40 PM | I was kinda referring to men in general, but I'll admit I did think of him SOME when posting this.
I know I need to just let go, bc if I don't do it, it will stay like it is right now for who knows how long. He has too many issues to work through and not only doesn't have a great opinion of women (we're all apparently psychos) but never ever wants children. I suppose it's just hard when a year has gone by and I have gotten attached and he still comes over here like part of the family.
But I can't thank you all enough for all the interesting opinions and great advice.  | |
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