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| One week from yesterday, the DC Sniper is to be executed.
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:11:34 PM |
We just need to teach our police to shoot to kill, if they're going to shoot at all...not just shoot to stop.
Where I live, they usually empty a magazine when they shoot someone. I think they do yell 'Stop, Police' first though. | |
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| One week from yesterday, the DC Sniper is to be executed.
Posted: 11/5/2009 11:32:56 PM |
Feeding and housing him is a waste of taxpayer money. Yeah, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper than killing him.
Uh...what ?
How much does a bullet cost ? They must the most expensive items on Earth by weight. It's amazing there are wars raging anywhere based on what you think a bullet must cost.
But no...that's not what you're talking about. What you're talking about is how much it costs for a person to go through the appeals process. That's a favorite argument of the Anti-DP crowd but , as always , it's willful ignorance. The only reason it costs so much to execute anybody is because we have to pay to house and feed them while they're aliveplus cover the cost of their appeals. It's impossible for it to cost less than to simply keep them locked up if we only base the cost on the time two convicts spend in prison. They both cost exactly the same amount of money if we can only compare costs they can both incur. The convict with the death penalty gets appeals however and that's the only reason he costs more.
In any case , that is a false argument and it's entirely misleading. It's apples and oranges. If that really is the argument that makes or breaks anybody's opinion on the death penalty then I wonder if perhaps we should just do away with the entire prison system as it exists today entirely. We can just put an ankle bracelet on everybody convicted of any crime and have them serve their sentance at home.
Of course , what also is rarely included in that "it costs less to keep them alive" argument is the fact that the executed convict costs nothing at all once he's dead. To make a more accurate comparison of the cash it costs then we have to compare the entire cost of a person's prison sentance (let's say he gets 50 years) with the total cost of the executed's sentance from incarceration to death. Would it still cost more to kill somebody ? Probably not but even if it did , the comparison still isn't valid because a death sentance also carries an automatic appeal which invariably is followed by years more of the same. Why ? Usually it's on technicalities with the ultimate aim being to get a retrial or a commuted sentance. There are plenty of ways to streamline this process but the resources don't exist in sufficient supply. Not yet anyway.
Anyway , before you make a snap judgement about my stance on the DP , I am actually against it as it exists today. There is only one reason I'm against it though and it has nothing to do with cost , sympathy for murderers , etc. I would happily throw the switch on a confirmed cold-blooded killer , no problem. What I can't do is be certain that I'm executing the right guy in the vast majority of cases. I can be reasonably sure but it's inevitable that sooner or later somebody innocent of the crime they're being executed for is sitting in the electric chair I'm about to galvanize. They probably aren't any sort of saint anyway but that doesn't mean they deserve death. Just as importantly as not executing the right guy is knowing that the real killer is still walking around or could be at least.
That's the only reason I'm against the death penalty but when it comes to cost , it's irrelevent as far as I'm concerned. Using disingenuous arguments about the actual cost to execute somebody will not convince anyone because everybody knows that there's an extremely easy way to mitigate all those costs associated with a death penalty sentance : We can execute people for free provided we've got something tall to push them off of (for example) | |
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| One week from yesterday, the DC Sniper is to be executed.
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:21:53 AM | That's a bit one-dimensional.
not really, its looking at it for what it is. think about if u know the punishment for murder is death and u still do it then like i said u have chosen ur fate.iam sick of the person who commits murder be coming the victim.its a bunch of bleeding heart crap. its just funny that when someone that commits a triple murder and then gets sentenced to death that person( murderer) is upset, well how bout them victims, how the hell do u think they felt? the only problem with the death penalty is they dont use it enuff. | |
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| One week from yesterday, the DC Sniper is to be executed.
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:26:08 PM | There seems to be a question about innocent people being put to death. How about this for a safeguard -
If it is subsequently proved that an innocent person was wrongly executed, all persons associated with the conviction are also executed. This would include the prosecutor, the investigating police, the judge and all members of the jury.
This might actually bring some focus to getting the decision right and make people a little more aware of the consequences of a wrong decision. | |
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| One week from yesterday, the DC Sniper is to be executed.
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:01:51 PM |
How much does a bullet cost ? They must the most expensive items on Earth by weight. It's amazing there are wars raging anywhere based on what you think a bullet must cost.
But no...that's not what you're talking about. What you're talking about is how much it costs for a person to go through the appeals process. That's a favorite argument of the Anti-DP crowd but , as always , it's willful ignorance. The only reason it costs so much to execute anybody is because we have to pay to house and feed them while they're aliveplus cover the cost of their appeals. It's impossible for it to cost less than to simply keep them locked up if we only base the cost on the time two convicts spend in prison. They both cost exactly the same amount of money if we can only compare costs they can both incur. The convict with the death penalty gets appeals however and that's the only reason he costs more.
Bullets? You're not up-to-date on things here, friend.
Your math is a bit skewed. Discussing the cost of lifetime incarceration vs execution should include all costs to the state. Otherwise the calculation is meaningless. Why would you want to "only compare costs they can both occur?" That, to borrow your term, appears to be "willful ignorance." Your term, not mine. I prefer blissful ignorance. | |
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| One week from yesterday, the DC Sniper is to be executed.
Posted: 11/7/2009 1:07:35 AM | Attorneys for the man at the center of a 2002 killing spree in the nation’s capital released a letter from their client Wednesday proclaiming his innocence.
Convicted sniper John Allen Muhammad's execution in Viriginia is scheduled for next week. In the incohesive, barely coherent letter, John Allen Muhammad, who is scheduled to die by lethal injection on Nov. 10, writes that “exculpatory evidence” withheld from his trial "will prove my innocent and what really happen ....[sic]"
The 48-year-old sniper was deemed a father figure for his teenage accomplice, Lee Boyd Malvo, who is serving a life sentence. The letter, dated May 2008, was filed in federal court in connection with Muhammad's unsuccessful attempt to block his execution, according to his attorneys, The Associated Press reports.
Chock full of misspellings and grammatical errors, the letter says: "So all you police and prosecutors can stand-down-'rushing' to murder this innocent Black man for something he nor his son (Lee) had nothing to do with ...." Lee Boyd Malvo is of no relation to Muhammad.
Muhammad was convicted of killing Dean Harold Meyers at a Manassas, Va., gas station during a three-week spree that killed 10 in October 2002. The killings happened in Maryland, Virginia and the District of Columbia.
Tuesday, Muhammad's attorneys asked the U.S. Supreme Court to stop his execution.
Muhammad's lawyers also have asked Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine for clemency, saying Muhammad is mentally ill and should not be executed. bet.com
I don't believe in the death penalty. A life in prison is adequate. I believe that the government and the people of a country enforcing executions sends a message, which reverberates throughout the culture, that violence is the answer to problems, and this may suggest one reason why America is such a violent nation. In all other modern Western countries, the death penalty no longer exists, and those nations have less violence overall than America. I don't believe this guy is innocent, of course not. Vengeance is not a reason for execution. Removing someone from society is reasonable; exacting vengeance just lowers us as a culture rather than effecting empowerment. | |
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| One week from yesterday, the DC Sniper is to be executed.
Posted: 11/7/2009 1:08:36 AM | the racism and false accusations in our system, force me to not accept the death penalty. if i could be sure we were really executing killers ( as well as not letting killers buy their way out of the system just because they can afford it) , i might be less worried. this particular man is a sociopath. what has happened to the teen accomplice? i remember that story really upset me.
ah ismene (just above), i see we crossed paths. thanks for that info about the boy. | |
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| One week from yesterday, the DC Sniper is to be executed.
Posted: 11/7/2009 4:29:18 AM |
I don't believe in the death penalty. A life in prison is adequate. I believe that the government and the people of a country enforcing executions sends a message, which reverberates throughout the culture, that violence is the answer to problems, and this may suggest one reason why America is such a violent nation. In all other modern Western countries, the death penalty no longer exists, and those nations have less violence overall than America. I don't believe this guy is innocent, of course not. Vengeance is not a reason for execution. Removing someone from society is reasonable; exacting vengeance just lowers us as a culture rather than effecting empowerment.
Rave on John Donne (with apologies to Van Morrison).
The death penalty is only state-sponsored vengence and doesn't bring the victims back. It's grotesque and it amazes me a person's life can be in the hands of the likes of both Bush brothers and an individual like Sarah Palin. Has any one of them ever stayed an execution? | |
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| One week from yesterday, the DC Sniper is to be executed.
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:30:29 AM | I don't believe in the death penalty. A life in prison is adequate. I believe that the government and the people of a country enforcing executions sends a message, which reverberates throughout the culture, that violence is the answer to problems, and this may suggest one reason why America is such a violent nation. In all other modern Western countries, the death penalty no longer exists, and those nations have less violence overall than America. I don't believe this guy is innocent, of course not. Vengeance is not a reason for execution. Removing someone from society is reasonable; exacting vengeance just lowers us as a culture rather than effecting empowerment.
^^ I agree.  Permanent removal from society, leave him to dwell and think about how many lives he's ruined (his own included) in an 8 x 9 cell for the remainder of his natural days.
These people that imply that anything less than a death sentence is somehow "not justice" , I just can't comprehend them; and obviously they've never seriously contemplated LIFE inside a state or fed'l penitentiary and all the confinement, discomfort, and brutality that brings with it. It's as though some DP proponents feel that if he does not get sentenced to a lethal injection he is being sent off to some sort of state- or federal-run Radisson somewhere where he can just congregate with friends and family and live well, "at taxpayer's expense" (another favorite mantra of conservatives).
It's simply NOT the case that a term of life imprisonment, particularly for a younger man or woman, is an "easy" sentence, in ANY way shape or form. Furthermore, in this day and age the primary remaining way America carries out these executions is the lethal injection. I have read it described, even by victims' family members who have watched the procedure, as essentially "anti-climatic". After 20+ years of (expensive...there goes their taxpayer dollars again) appeals and legal wranglings and so forth, he simply gets placed onto a gurney, and in almost all of these executions he appears to simply fall asleep , or his eyes glaze over and that's that.
Some say it certainly lacks the "closure" they thought seeing him die would bring.
Then there are other people (usually on the internet mostly, and usually notably NOT actual victims' family members) who decry the lethal injection and demand more painful deaths , even public executions, and so on. Something about the anonymity of the computer , and the (admitted) atrocious nature of some of these crimes, really never fails to bring out the hidden ancestral Middle Ages pitchfork-wielding peasant in many modern Americans.
And the ones who most loudly demand "public justice", painful deaths, bloodshed as apparently both spectacle and "justice", and so forth, oftentimes (ironically) are the most "Christian" who would just as loudly decry abortions for example. "Pro-Life" certainly, but only if it applies to an only partially-formed future human being....... vociferously pro-Death when it comes to a fully-formed (however badly flawed) fully-living human being who has committed an awful crime. This is one area where I have to hand it at least to the Roman Catholic Church; the Vatican is pro-Life, certainly, but it rounds that out by being consistently pro-Life (ie, staunchly ANTI-Death Penalty).
It cracks me up the sight of tattooed, pig-eating, possibly uncircumsized, non-kosher, gender-mixing, Sabbath-breaking quoters of Torah (but only ever two of the ancient Hebrew laws: no same-sex relations , and "eye for an eye"....on the rest of Jewish law they are either blissfully ignorant or simply write it off as no longer applying since they are Christians; strangely, only those two still do apply...).
Beyond all this, to my view (as I have brought up here before) , America simply can do better than its states (or its fed'l gov't) literally killing people, regardless of what those people have done. It simply can do better. For a country that prides itself as being this "shining city on a hill", this beacon of human rights and freedoms, it is in , it remains in, generally very poor company (human rights-wise) when one studies which other countries have also not yet abolished capital punishment. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html
Remaining countries where this is still permitted,
Death Penalty Permitted ( Everywhere else NOT listed that you can think of, it has been outlawed):
* Afghanistan
* Antigua and Barbuda
* Bahamas
* Bahrain
* Bangladesh
* Barbados
* Belarus
* Belize
* Botswana
* Burundi
* Cameroon
* Chad
* China (People's Republic)
* Comoros
* Congo (Democratic Republic)
* Cuba
* Egypt
* Equatorial Guinea
* Eritrea
* Ethiopia
* Gabon
* Ghana
* Guatemala
* Guinea
* Guyana
* India
* Indonesia
* Iran
* Iraq
* Jamaica
* Japan
* Jordan
* Korea, North
* Korea, South
* Kuwait
* Laos
* Lebanon
* Lesotho
* Libya
* Malawi
* Malaysia
* Mongolia
* Nigeria
* Oman
* Pakistan
* Palestinian Authority
* Qatar
* St. Kitts and Nevis
* St. Lucia
* St. Vincent and the Grenadines
* Saudi Arabia
* Sierra Leone
* Singapore
* Somalia
* Sudan
* Swaziland
* Syria
* Taiwan
* Tajikistan
* Tanzania
* Thailand
* Trinidad and Tobago
* Uganda
* United Arab Emirates
* United States <----------------------
* Vietnam
* Yemen
* Zambia
* Zimbabwe | |
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