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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:11:27 AM | For someone my age especially, where children are no longer a consideration, no, marriage isn't necessary. In my case it's not sought after or desired.
From reading many forum posts, I also find there are many my age who don't even want to live together, which also suits me. For one thing, there is no financial need in many cases and, face it, whether a number of people want to admit it or not, easing a financial burden is a consideration for many people for living together. Some people are more cut out to be autonomous than others. It has nothing to do with any past hurts or fears; it's just the type of personality they have, just as some (likely most) have the need to have someone with them 24/7 and enjoy the continual decision making processes on a daily basis, or their sense of loneliness without living together with someone is much greater than others. My mother always used to comment that, right from a small child, I was content with my own company and that holds true for me today. I love being in a long term relationship - I just don't need marriage or to live with someone to sustain one.
People's personalities/wants/needs/desires are so varied that I don't believe there's any one right formula for any two sets of couples. Even within a marriage, no two marriages are identical with respect to any number of things, be it how finances are handled, sleeping arrangements, who's chores are who's, etc. As they say, different strokes for different folks. Any relationship situation that works well for two people shouldn't be frowned upon; the mear fact that it works well for them to the point it is long term, speaks for itself. Too often, when people attempt to pigeon hole themselves into doing what is expected by society's "norms", that's when relationship problems arise. It takes really knowing yourself and who you choose as a partner. Too often, people don't know enough about either and then wonder wtf happened. | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:16:31 AM | It's the whole Prom Queen, Debutante Ball Cinderella-making -her-arrival-at-the-top-of-the-stairs ENTRY into the ballroom where ALL EYES ARE ON HER
Fantasy claptrap that women have bought into for all these years.
Did all of you notice that the FIRST comment was a smarmy attack on the OP as if the very idea to QUESTION a woman's motivation of CEREMONY vs RELATIONSHIP was tantamount to Heresy and some attempt of the OP to propose denying women their own OPTION to have wrongful motives. sheeesh
I mean.. look at the BRIDEZILLA shows. You NEVER hear of GROOMzilla.
The Mona Lisa Smile movie addressed the mentality from the 1950's that had been around for ages.
It's the going to college for an MRS degree.. Funny to be on a fish forum.. cause back then women would SNAG themselves a "good man" which was defined by him heading for college graduation with a well-paying JOB.
I've seen fathers ask time and again if their baby girl wanted the cash to start her life with (like a dowry) or the whole ceremony thing..
MOST women take the ceremony.. Heck.. for the longest time the sole function of the 2nd-Best man was to prop up the hungover groom for the PROCESSION down the aisle. It's become a ridiculous production.
To more directly answer your question.. it's because their value system is so plain wrong. It SHOULD be about the relationship to be. You can get married in front of a Justice of the Peace.. or a ship captain.. All you need is one witness.
Is the goal to have the ceremony with your closest girlfriends all dressed in uglier-than-the-bride dresses? | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:22:26 AM | ^^^ yep there is an element to the ceremonial aspects of marriage that lots of women really get off on. i'm sorry, i can't relate. i'm completely mystified. am i from another planet? apparently so... i mean my god, those f@ckin "brides" magazines weigh 5 pounds a piece. think of the advertising dollars.... that kind of money doesn't go where there isn't a hefty profit to be had.
i really like the ship's captain idea though! i'll keep that in mind the next time i turn somebody down. ;)
as for bridezillas: target practice. i couldn't make it through 2 minutes of that show, but i sure would enjoy putting them out of their misery. :::evil grin::: | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:38:33 AM | Single ladies song by Beyonce keeps going through my head...
"If you like it then you should have put a ring on it"
I don't think marriage is necessary for a long term relationship to work and lots of couples do just fine without it (for a long time gay couples couldn't get married and it didn't stop them). However, personally, I hope to be married again (sans big ceremony)
I recently went on a trip and everywhere we went they kept calling us Mr. and Mrs. _____ and the simple fact is .. I like that. | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 7:42:53 AM | Well as far as semantics go, I think many people confuse a wedding with a marriage. They seem to think a wedding is the fairy tale end to a good LTR instead of just a step. They forget there is a marriage/LTR that still needs to be there after the big day or think a wedding is a magic wand to fix any issues in an LTR. Some seem to think that a wedding means that all problems will be fixed now that they are married.
I don't see what the hang up on moving in together, being in an LTR, or getting married are. As a couple the people in that couple need to decide what is best for them, not let society dictate to them what is proper.
Personally I don't care if I get married, live with someone or live alone. It will depend on the situation and the person I am involved w/ at the time. I have turned down a couple of engagement offers in the past, because I wasn't ready.
Better to know what you are and aren't willing to do in a relationship then to make a mistake and compound it w/ legal documents. Not every woman is chasing the white dress and ring, just many have been socialized to seek it out like the holy grail. I think as society progresses there will be fewer chasing the wedding and more seeking the compatible companion to share w/. At least that is my hope. It is so much easier/cheaper to just put their stuff on the porch and change the locks than involve a lawyer.
And 1kindman-there are groomzillas too. They just don't get the airtime. FYI | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 8:09:49 AM |
Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
LTR = long term relationship, not long term marriage.
The bulk of my friendships have out lasted the average marriage length - now almost 1.5 times over.
Therefore, my answer is "F*ck no!".
Marriage only brings certain government benefits which a man is 65% likely to replay back many times over. There is absolutely no other benefit of a marriage to a man, except throw money at the state, and at some lawyer or a priest who, evident by his brief case or gay ropes, just emerged from Satan's ass. Okay, I guess there is no benefit period.
No woman, or a man, has been able to show the necessity of marriage for successful partnership. There is nothing married people can do that single people can't. Married people can cheat, single people can cheat. Married people can love one another, single people can love another other. Married people can live together, single people can live together. Married people can have kids, single people can have kids. Married people get government benefits, single people saved the cost of a wedding, honey moon, etc... Married people break up, single people break up... but without the added expense of a divorce.
Marriage is necessary if you want to lose half of your resources and life or if you want a short term relationship - for you can be 65% certain that once you get married, you will get divorced within a short period of time. Or from a woman's perspective, marriage is necessary if you want to get half of a man's resources... and then claim independence, and that you don't need a man. And of course, no woman here has ever done that, or even thought of doing that. | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 8:20:04 AM | I have never lived with a man that I wasn't married to. I feel if you are going to live as man and wife, then you should be. I am not as much stuck on the legal crap except as someone clearly stated that insurance and other things don't recognize you unless you are married legally.
My ex husband ask me to marry him, I didn't ask him. My first and second fiances, rip, both asked me. My current fiance asked me on the phone. I really had no desire to marry again, but after knowing him, I have changed my mind. But in my case, it was always the man asking before I discussed marriage. I think that you need to google marriage proposals, I think you will find most men ask women to marry them. Seems men find it pretty important. | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 9:06:57 AM | My best friend and his girlfriend, lived together 8 years before he proposed. I think it is much better to live together before makeing a committment because you cant tell what a person is really like till you have been with him/her for a length of time. If things dont work out, each can go on thier merry way without the complications involved with legal issues. With the high divorce rate, testing the waters prior to such a drastic move as marrage I think is the way to go. My friend committed after 8 years, they have been a married now for 15 years and happy most of the time. He says problems arise but since they do know one another they can work through things.
Therefore I believe in a long cohabitation for a precurser to marrage. Also LTR can indicate time for cohabitation if marrige is the long term goal. I would never ever marry without living one or two years prior . | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 9:37:45 AM |
I notice women are much more concerned with this than men.
So, my question would be to women..........why are you so obsessed with the semantics of a ring/marriage instead of the actual relationship?
I'm not... anymore.  But, yeah, I used to be. I think part of it was just being raised to believe that's how it's done. And I guess I also made the mistake of believing it's 'meant more' as in a stronger commitment. I still believe it is best for couples with children or who plan to have children to get married, but that's more of a legal thing and trying to look out for the kids' best interests.
Since I'm past my child bearing years the only way I'm going down an aisle again is hog-tied and carried, kicking and screaming all the way, but I ain't repeating those vows and they can't make me.  | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 10:39:12 AM | Personally I am not obsessed regarding marriage. Having said this I would not live with someone unless he was willing to become engaged and have a wedding date set. I also would have a pre-nup in place for the protection of both parties. I value who I am and what I bring to a relationship and I want a man who values me enough to marry me. However all of this is up for and can be negotiated. As to your question. I do not think marriage is necessary for a long term relationship. I know lots of people who live together happily without marriage. I am not one of them. Who are you to judge anyone's priorities just because they do not match yours? | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 10:48:21 AM | My opinion:
Marriage is a legal, social, moral and religious commitment. It involves vows and promises announced to family, friends, and society in general. You agree to live by a code of conduct that surpasses how you might "feel" at any given day and promise to honor your commitment. You get married with the idea of working through the difficulties (for better, for worse). You promise to love, honor and cherish-- and by this, you expressly agree and understand that your goal is to live harmoniously.
Living together is shacking up out of convenience. It's a "trial run"-- a test drive. It's going in with the idea of "if it doesn't work out I'm outta here". Living together is a way to avoid making a commitment. It's stalling. There are no promises, no vows, no agreements, no commitment.
Studies have shown that those who shack up prior to marriage (or in lieu of marriage) have a much lower chance of staying together. Is it any surprise? | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 10:52:14 AM | ^^^Who says that one has to cohabit or get married in order to have a healthy LTR?
I know of a couple who were together for over 30 years who lived separately and happily and were committed to each other. Unfortunately, he passed away before they were going to tour the country in a motor home after both had retired.  | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 11:01:42 AM | This is an easy one. Women are not so much obsessed with marriage as men are obsessed with avoiding it. A marriage certificate is not just a peice of paper. It is a legally binding contract. Whatever else marriage may be to the people involved, it is first and foremost a LEGAL relationship.
When men refuse to marry women they are in LTRs with, the message women get is loud and clear: he wants to be able to get out of the relationship at any time with no warning and no consequences. That is the polar opposite of the commitment women so often need to feel secure. | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 11:09:35 AM | ^^^Who says that one has to cohabit or get married in order to have a healthy LTR?
The OP's question was about cohabitation
moving in together until they're married
you'll actually get along once you move in together.
compatible to live together.
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 11:11:32 AM | I wouldn't say so. Just like I pointed out in a previous thread, people don't have to wed just to prove their love for one another.
There are people who would prefer to just be in a loving, long term relationship, rather than taking that next step, and getting married.
Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with not getting married at all. Especially with the ridiculous divorce rate in this country. Particularly in the state of California.
Why take that risk? | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 11:19:24 AM | IMHO the only thing the study shows is that the trial run proved marriage would be an even worse idea than living together. So those people COULD have been married and become a divorce statistic. I believe I've heard that married couples who cohabitate first but still end up taking the plunge have a better chance of the marriage lasting. It just sounds like there are d*** few who proceed from one phase to the other... and probably for good reason.
My sister went to an interesting gathering just this past weekend. A couple in their late 50s/early 60s who had lived together for about 10 years decided to 'make it legal' and the ceremony was scheduled on Oct. 31. By the time they came to realize how much each would stand to lose as it relates to social security, medical coverage, etc., they decided to keep things just the way they are. But the pig was already in the ground so they had an unwedding. | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 11:20:48 AM | | I've also heard and have read information as well that says that shacking up before marriage is bad news and will not help a marriage but likely make it easier to leave a marriage. Think about it if you shack before marriage, your basically living together but at the same time your not really sharing anything i.e. bank accounts, light bills, mortgage payments ect. added with the fact that since your actually not married and shacking only makes it easier for both to end it and go thier seperate ways as if nothing of consequence will happen. With Marriage being a big committment, I feel it will only make a marriage stronger if both parties wait till their officially married to live together then there will be a real committment and both party will in essence be foreced to share instead of each other having this and that with the ability to keep things secret i.e bank accounts and such. It shouldn't take shacking to realize a person is unkept and dirty, if you can't pick that up from just being around them, then you have problems. I feel if a couple goes through marriage counseling through thier church before marriage that can more than suffice to understand what type of person you will be marrying as well as what it will take to help it last and prosper. | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 11:21:28 AM | | Think it depends much more on the age of the women. Older people who have already had their children are less concerned at making it legal and many are actually opposed to marriage because of prior experiences. Maybe others feel that no matter how deeply they feel, they would be roommates rather than life mates without the ceremony. | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 11:25:29 AM | Well to some marriage is not just a piece of paper. I view it as true love and commitment.
There is nothing wrong with living together prior as it gives a couple a heads up on whether they are truly compatible or not, but I don't view it as a true commitment. The preliminary, yes.
Some choose to reside common law permanently and on a long term basis. All the power to them if that's what they want. I cannot see myself doing that though. It's not for me. | |
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| Is marriage necessary for a healthy LTR?
Posted: 11/4/2009 11:32:54 AM | Honestly, I think most men are **stards and would rather get the milk for free then buy the cow. If you are looking for a long term relationship with a girl, you need to do the right thing and COMMIT. Living with a woman prior to marriage is also bad IMO...if you are going to live together and have sex then you should get married. It's just the right thing to do.
Put a ring on her finger and call it good, otherwise move on and let someone else have her that intends to treat her right.
Yes, I am conservative, republican, and old fashioned...call it what you will. | |
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