| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 9:55:17 PM | | Paul K....Your definition of what constitutes a successful, financial life if you are willing to "lead a very dull boring life" has been disappearing. Have you noticed? Started about twenty or so years ago. Much has changed. Way lots. Your two high-school educated friends wouldn't have a hope in hell these days....none...with his city parks job and her in the billing department. IF they could even get these jobs with their education! No flippin way would they be sending three kids to college and retiring with 5,000 or so bucks coming in if they faced the cost of living now and were just beginning. No flippin way. The other guy is right. And it is not a dark way of looking at things. It is the right way that most ignore. The power and money mongers have a number on your back and it is just a matter of time until your number comes up. I could weep for the young facing this dark and ugly dilemma that faces them in their future. Canada and the U.S. will now begin the descent to a final third world status. Darkness that will lead hopefully to some kind of correction and hopefully some meaningful protest. And...hey...by the way nobody without more than a high-school education could afford a house these days. Even in the bankrupt U.S.A. P.S....get a copy of Rolling Stone's October issue and read Matt Taiibi's article on what the money and power mongers have been up to in the good ole U.S.A. that led to this last travesty and bubble bursting. Yes indeed. Even if you come out of the system educated does not mean anything. You need to KNOW what way your education will be utilized. Obviously, even the so called intelligent that weren't dumbed down, are in the end dumbed down. Look around, open your eyes, recognize that life is indeed becoming very unfair. Yep. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/5/2009 1:30:10 AM |
Celebrities arent stupid because public schools are bad. Celebrities are stupid, because they're stupid.
I disagree.
Can a pianist generally beat an athlete in a race? Generally, do workers betters entertain than entertainers? And when the worker comes home after a hard day of work, wouldn't the worker want to relax and be entertained.
Why don't we think that celebrities are brilliant at what they do. That is entertain. As a concequence doesn't it take massive amounts of emotional intelligence to do something like entertain? I imagine it would because to mimic the different attributes and characteristic of a foreign persona would take massive amounts of effort. Can a normal person do what Tom Hanks does?
I just think the emphasize in our society is imbalanced and the issue stems from entertainment that is too efficient. When the goal is money, then all measures to acquire as much as one can is the primary objective. Tv's are "mass produced" into our lives. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:43:00 AM | | I prefer wisdom,a little intelligence can go along way with alot of wisdom to apply it...alot of intelligence with little wisdom to guide it has produced much misery and suffering in the world.The smartest most multi talented man i ever knew was an Uncle of mine...he was a Farmer,Carpenter,Mechanic,Plumber and just about anything else done with two hands.... and could dispense wisdom about life,people and circumstances...he could not read and could barely sign his name.I beleive in education but it seems to me that wisdom has been forgotten and replaced either with facts,figures and procedures or just complete mindless imbecility. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:47:34 AM |
Why don't we think that celebrities are brilliant at what they do. That is entertain. As a concequence doesn't it take massive amounts of emotional intelligence to do something like entertain? I imagine it would because to mimic the different attributes and characteristic of a foreign persona would take massive amounts of effort. Can a normal person do what Tom Hanks does?
There are differnet types of intelligence. Ive known people that struggle with basic math, cant spell that well, but when it comes to fixing a car no matter whats wrong they can find and solve that problem. Ive met MDs that are not good speakers.
Different types of intelligence are specialized and must be learned. Look at athletes. There is so much pressure on them to go to college and take real classes because being a genius on the court or on the field is one thing, but it doesnt mean that once you return to the real world that you'll be any better then the rest of us. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/5/2009 8:37:06 AM | As for schools ... well they have been a constant debate about their level of usefulness in the so called real world.
The main reason was to baby sit kids so the parents could work
teach them to read so we could feed them propaganda more easily
hope they learn to write enough to fill out reports and sign legal documents
maybe a bit of math so they don't hold up the line in the stores arguing about how much they owe.
As for school leading to jobs ... not really ... never did ... unless it was leading to becoming a teacher.
We have to dumb down the school works so there aren't too many dropouts who then become delinquents and social problems costing more than it does to keep them in school. [too bad there is still a 30+% dropout rate in High School]
I guess they have failed at that by increasing the curriculum requirements lately.
boys will be boys | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/5/2009 10:14:06 AM | ^^^^^^^
Spoken like a true intellectual. A few of your premises:
Schooling doesn't lead to jobs....... I have a nephew who feels that way, and is constanly looking for his next minimum wage job. His brother, on the other hand, has a masters, and is gainfully employed. Yeah, I know, the gainfully employed one swallowed the whole hook line and sinker propaganda message about working hard, studying, putting off as much as possible having fun while getting an education, and that is what makes it just so NOT FAIR that he is actually making a living, buying a condo...................... JUST NOT FAIR.
Increased curriculum requirements......... This is really a hoot. What you really should say, is that we are trying to increase the curriculum requirements to WHERE THEY WERE.
When you look at the schools that are succeeding in the Southern California area, they are the ones with the HIGHEST STANDARDS. The ones with ESL, that would be English as a SECOND Language, no mandatory set curriculum, these are the ones that are failing, with a 48% drop out record. In this case, only 30% would be an improvement.
you wrote:
"The main reason was to baby sit kids so the parents could work"
That explains your whole mindset as to the importance of education, and goes a long way to explaining why you feel as you do.....................
Paul K | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/5/2009 10:53:27 AM | I think some of the lower standards are because they have lowered their expectation levels in order to make children feel the same, nobody higher, nobody lower, we are all winners mentallity.. It is about feeling good about themselves, and being fair..
Life is not fair, the prepared and disiplined succeed in life and achieve, and those that choose not to prepare..normally aren't disiplined and lack achievement. I understand that there are always exceptions, but as a general rule it stands.
When we turned our attention to making feelings more important then academic success, we started turning out students that feel good about themselves, but are seriously lacking in skills needed to be productive in society. They are usually unprepared to face life and the troubles it involves..
We will destroy you, not with missiles, but from within.” -Nikita Khrushchev
Whether we like it or not, when an old soviet leaders predictions or desire was spoken, people laughed at the folly..but when we look at those words today..they are coming true. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/5/2009 12:10:23 PM | Well you are right about one thing Ancient, it used to be about education..go to most if not all urban city schools in the bigger cities and you will find high drop out rates, many of those that do graduate can't read or write, and still we elect the same idiots to run our cities and schools..
If they are not prepared for life then they become dependant on someone to provide for them..that's where the great ones like obama, and our other fearless leaders come into play..
We spend about ten thousand dollars per child on education, 25 kids in a class makes that 250,000 per classroom..how come it dosen't get to the classrooms and kids don't have the needed books to use??
Just like in most government run programs, the majority of the money is spend elsewhere and little goes to educating our childern. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/5/2009 4:05:39 PM |
My question is, why does the public accept these public displays of outright stupidity? 1. You don't need to appear intelligent to be successful.
2. There is a certain desire to appear mediocre today. It was long claimed by the aristocracy that poor people were dumb. But the world revolted against the aristocracy, and everything they stood for, including the notion that less smart people were in some way lacking. Appearing to be intelligent implies that others are dumber than you, and that makes people feel like you are one of the aristocracy, telling them that you are better than them. That just makes them hate you.
Also, public schools seem to be geared towards the mediocre (boiling it down to the "lowest common denominator"), again, there's this mindset where intelligence isn't really embraced or nurtured. Is this really the right perspective that we, as a society, should view intelligence? Nope. Intelligence is earned, not given. Even in my maths degree, the person who got the best marks, would be in the maths study room at 9am Monday to Friday, working hard, and did the most work. I'd say that everyone who is smart, worked for it, and if you didn't see them working for it, that's because when you were out partying, you were too busy partying to notice that they weren't there, and were skipping it and slogging their guts out.
If not, why doesn't society as a whole not change? Because society is still smarting from the class struggle. The poor still feel disadvantaged. They are still in pain. Society has not yet removed the problems of the poor, and as long as they have not, the people will still feel the same animosities that they used to feel, towards anyone who resembles the aristocracy in their minds. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/5/2009 4:38:32 PM | Hey sunny
you wrote:
"I think some of the lower standards are because they have lowered their expectation levels in order to make children feel the same, nobody higher, nobody lower, we are all winners mentallity.. It is about feeling good about themselves, and being fair.."
Wow, did you nail it, especially with the comment by kruschev. Your quote tells us that unless this is changed, we are doomed. While your quote perfectly describes what 'ol nikita said, it also describes the political correctness that drove the schools to where they are, thank you very much.
Paul K | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/6/2009 5:52:54 PM | To start, unfortunately, more money needs to be funnelled into education. Priorities need to be readdressed.
To teach a person to learn. What if we had been taught according to our aptitudes, from the beginning. At school we were all taught how to be average. The slow one's struggled and the fast one's learned to be lazy biding their time. Certainly education systems need to become more flexible (so deep in the computer age and our education is not personalized at all).
Also more teachers need to be available to mime proper social roles (sometimes children's only example of 'normal' behaviour... it is good if there is a teacher's aid and some level of interaction).
As for TV... I don't have one. If I really want to be braindead for a while, I watch videos of people falling down on youtube... it really only takes two or three minutes before I've had enough... much more efficient than anything I could see on TV. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/6/2009 6:01:05 PM | Hey x
More money is NOT the answer....... In California, we spend well over $10K per student per year..... With a class size of 25, that is a quarter of a million dollars. Chew on that number a while. Where is it going??????? On the teachers? NOPE. On the facilities? Don't make me laugh...........
When my daughter was in high school, not only did I pay property taxes for the public schools, but I also paid about $8,000.00 a year for private school. Their graduation rate was over 95%, and almost all went to college.
What is needed is DISCIPLINE. Today, the kids rule the classroom, and the teachers are AFRAID to try to enforce anything at all. Now, don't go writing about how I want to have everybody goosestepping........... At least say something intelligent.
There are no consequences if they drop out, NOBODY CARES. Theres your problem, but it is politiclly incorrect to say so.
Paul K | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/6/2009 6:23:38 PM | ^You're absolutely right and part of the reason for that is that we've glorified the losers in the mass media. We have....look at the "role models" kids have on television. If they can't be bothered to try to keep up in math class they need only turn on their television to learn how to still be 'cool' in school. It doesn't help in the least that we've watered down the engagement factor so much that even the students that do care or pay attention are bored to tears by their "non-offensive" curriculum. There's no competition allowed in schools anymore (the kids might feel bad apparently) but most teachers at least try to inject some excitement into their classes via competitive activities.
Worst of all (and perhaps one of the stupidest policy decisions ever made en-masse across the continent ) is indeed the dumbing-down of the curriculum so that even lab rats could keep up and pass each level. It certainly doesn't help that we've paved the way for the kids to stay as dumb as they like by providing them with role models who don't know how to conceive of long-term planning. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/6/2009 6:32:02 PM | ^^^^ NOBODY CARES ^^^^
right... that's why they are trying to fix the dropout rates...
maybe its just you that doesn't care ... sure sounds like it ...
oh ... but you do care about rich people and private schools though.
you have a great way of saying other people can't use one example and then that's all you ever do ... is quote one personal example like it proves anything.
that's your problem ... hypocracy. I's a tired a yer b.s.
you like to take pieces of a conversation like it is the whole point.
you constantly show your ignorance and lack of comprehension of other people's points and ideas.
There is no need for business to require a Master's Degree to have a decent job.
that is social b.s. and driving kids into thinking they need it but feeling incapable of doing it .... since less the 1 percent of people get Masters Degrees.
all your personal examples are just that and prove zip. nadda ... nothing.
you even said it yourself ... but persist on continuing with the b.s.
your not worth the arguments ... nobody will ever get past your thought of self correctness and superiority that is totally dilusional. no dumbing down needed. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:09:59 PM | ^^^^^^^^
OUCH.......... spanked again.......... hey Krebby........ HELP!!!
Paul K
I do care about public education, as the general malaise that has gripped public education is hurting us ALL. And, I did pay for both the public education and the private. That was a LOT of years working 50 t0 60 hours a week.....................
Since a Masters isn't needed, does that mean then that they aren't learning anything when a student earns a Masters in Business? | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:24:34 PM | RE Msg: 40 by xzanthius:
To start, unfortunately, more money needs to be funnelled into education. Priorities need to be readdressed.
To teach a person to learn. What if we had been taught according to our aptitudes, from the beginning. At school we were all taught how to be average. The slow one's struggled and the fast one's learned to be lazy biding their time. Certainly education systems need to become more flexible (so deep in the computer age and our education is not personalized at all).
Also more teachers need to be available to mime proper social roles (sometimes children's only example of 'normal' behaviour... it is good if there is a teacher's aid and some level of interaction). The problem is priorities, not money. There are plenty of faith schools in the UK, that get the same budget as a comprehensive school, or less, and have to cram more into less hours, because as much as 2 hours every day are devoted to religion. Yet these schools, run by people others would regard as religious fundamentalist nutcases, consistently get the best results, as good as the top schools that charge $20,000 just for going there in the day, and charge $40,000 for boarding. Clearly money isn't the problem.
However, faiths schools demand autonomy of their methods of education, and their methods just seem to work, and that's true for Jewish schools, Muslim schools, and Catholic schools. They're all top of the schools league tables.
But go to a publicly-funded school that teaches a secular education in the UK, and you're school is probably bottom of the heap, and if you do succeed in school, it seems to be that you'll be the odd one out. But then, those schools are the only ones which do exactly what the government says. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:46:23 PM |
Since a Masters isn't needed, does that mean then that they aren't learning anything when a student earns a Masters in Business?
your the narcissist in another forum arguing that masters of business and economics don't know anything about the real world ... not me.... your comment only shows more lack of comprehension on your part.
since getting a masters has little to nothing to do with the public school system.
its essentially private since you have to buy it.
just more dancing into tangents thinking it makes you look right ... your spanked. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:53:16 PM | ^^^^^
I am always amazed when I am told I said something I didn't say............... Please cut/paste, just to show me..................
I promise I will spank myself if you do...............
Paul K
I should tell my nephew that his masters from a State University in California is worthless since he had to buy it........................ I will also tell him that he didn't go to a public school too.......... I am sure that will just wound him mortally. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/6/2009 9:31:37 PM | | School systems have been operating for a very short time in relation to the history of mankind. School systems are geared towards the average and easy learner. Otherwise any school system anywhere in North America usually kills any desire to learn in those who are independently inclined by age thirteen (the age of reason). School systems are geared for those who fall in line easily and choose financial security over the daring of being brave and questioning. School systems should only be viewed as resources where children learn to read and write and then something radically different should take over. I do not ponder those who suceed through the school system, I wonder about those who the school system failed. They were NOT dumb, but I do think that by about Grade eight the school system is just plain dumb and lacking in the power to inspire further learning. Gets kind of boring when only the economically advantaged get their various degrees. And it is getting worse, not better. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/7/2009 11:40:33 PM | ^You're right about half of your statement but I disagree with the part about school systems being necessarily unchallenging.
They certainly don't have to be that way but , as I mentioned earlier , we've watered the curriculum down so much that even the average students could keep up if they were interested (which they're not and that's the problem)
The other factor we're missing is interesting material. I mean seriously...I can't imagine a more boring manuscript than Wuthering Heights but for some reason this is part of the standard curriculum in some areas. Of course the average student is bored to tears by this novel ... it's absolutely useless when it comes to holding a student's attention. Now , some folks may like the book and some folks may indeed think it's a great novel...that's actually irrelevent. The important thing is that the average student would rather watch paint dry on growing grass than read Wuthering Heights.
Anyway , that's just one example from my own high-school experience. I didn't need comic books (I never liked them much anyway) but I'm quite certain I could find any number of more engaging books for students to both read and be challenged by.
In other subjects the removal of the competition factor has left no reason for the less interested to make the attempt anyway. We can't make anybody interested in something they naturally aren't interested in but we can get them to be interested in other things that require those subjects. For example , if a student finds baseball interesting , that's an opportunity to introduce history. If the kid likes the thought of owning his own business some day then that's a good way to teach math. There's no engagement factor anymore because teachers are overly constrained by the rules that effectively micro-manage their classes. | |
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