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Savona
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Joined: 7/14/2009
Msg: 26 | |
| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 4:39:50 PM |
I always pick emotionally unavailable men. I try to CONSCIOUSLY break out of picking them, and dammit if it doesn't happen over and over again. I recently did a lot of introsepction and realized that a LOT of the guys--almost all of them--said something along the lines of "You treat me just like you treat anyone else" or "Well, you didn't seem all that involved, either." So something for ME that I have been working on is showing the emotion I have, letting myself be "out there" emotionally. It does NOT come naturally to me.
CassaGo ... thanks I thought I might be the only one who does this. Just like a target emotionally unavailable men.
One thing about on the forums that I have noticed is that nearly everyone who posts is the normal one and it seems that most of the people they dated were the nut bars. I guess taking responsibility might be a good thing.
I have never in real life known as many bi polar, nutbars and so on that the people on here have dated .... just saying is all.
Savona | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 4:56:16 PM |
While it may seem that way, I don't think that is the case
It's fine that you disagree and I'll elaborate not to argue or try to convince you or anyone else.
To know me, you must know you...... I would respectfully disagree with this to an extent.
I've met and known very few people how know themselves well at all. We don't actually get to know anyone else better by knowing ourselves but we can learn about ourselves by considering how we react to their behaviors/feelings.
It's easier to observe someone else's behavior patterns because they're evident. This is why therapists, counselors, members of the clergy, etc. can give valuable insight because they're observing and can offer an objective perspective.
Those that are closer to us through any level of relationship, they have a personal investment so they don't always feel comfortable verbalizing their observations.
The reason people don't often reflect on their own behavior is because how they react is "built in", not something they have to think about. It could be a past relationship/experience that served as a trigger and a similar situation/experience will trigger that. Because it's just there, it's not often that someone takes pause or thinks about it, they may even feel it's normal, common or even justifiable.
Everyone has triggers, whether they acknowledge them or not. Everyone's triggers are different because our relationships and experiences are all different and always will be.
I know what my triggers are and when I recognize that type of situation, (and I don't always, but quite often) I either take a deep breath or do something distractive to give me a little time to react in a more appropriate manner. And when I don't, I'm quick to apologize and try to make it right. If they accept that fine, if not then I've taken responsibility for my own actions, so I don't need to beat myself up over it.
Everyone only has control over themselves, however someone else behaves or what they say, that is out of our realm of control. We are responsible for how we respond, it's a choice and noone ever gets it right all the time. It's a learning and growing experience, if it's not then it's the same old, same old with the wide-eyed wonderment....what happened? Or the "what's wrong with them?"
Don't have to read too many forums or interact with many other people to know that's how it is. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:13:41 PM | Every man that I have been with have been different and I unconsciously picked them for various reasons. The various reasons being whatever was going on my life at the time.
My husband was a Peter Pan; fun, emotional, perpetually active, romantic and shallow.
My rebound was just that... my rebound. He was solid, dependable, methodical, 11 yrs. older than I was and simply quite boring after a few years. I appreciated his strong shoulders for 7 years but I felt my wings were cut. I couldn't fly.
My next was Mr. Irresponsibility who had inherited wealth to spend. He had a mini farm on the Fraser River and was trying to go back to the earth. I spent more time making sure the little animals were being looked after. We had a regular McDonald's farm. We had fun for almost 5 yrs., but he was a substance abuser and I couldn't handle that.
I dated for a bit, then met a nice man. He was just that a nice decent man. Shades of #2.
Now I am with another man that is fun and energetic, somewhat like my ex-husband but he also has some of the qualities of #2. Just the responsible and solid qualities.
I think I finally came to a nice balance. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:18:14 PM |
Bucsgirl wrote:Many people are astute at recognizing behavior patterns in everyone else but themselves.
Yes, many people are astute at seeing other peoples negatives but not their own. If this were not true we wouldnt see so many people who go on ad nauseam about the negatives of the person(s) they have dated, while never seeming to ask themselves, if you keep choosing a bad fit, maybe its you who needs some serious, hard introspection.
~Beth~ | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:24:53 PM |
Being a long time forumite, I can't help but notice that when someone has an issue with a relationship, it seems to be that this is an issue that has popped up before for the person in previous relationships. That the person is choosing the same types of a partner over and over again all the while expecting a different result.
For the life of me, I cannot fathom having left a bad relationship and gravitating towards the same type of a person that will bring about the same issues to deal with in the future. I'm not saying I'm a relationship guru or anything, but I've had some damned good relationships with men and to this day, when I think back on my life I'm more likely to smile at a memory than frown.
Yes, and I agree with you. I am willing to bet good money that you don't go out and look for relationships with a man who abuses you but rather look for good relationships. So you, since you like good relationships, get them, and since you don't like bad relationships, you don't get them.
I am however curious as to what might be the underlying issue that the perpetual victims have that lead them to making the same choices over and over again with the same results. Are people such as this truly blind to the situation? Are they even aware that they are blaming the other person and not accepting any responsibility for their poor choice in a partner?
People get bad relationships because that is what they go for. The Scissor Sisters' song "Almost Sorry" contains the following two lines: "No sympathy is given to the perpetrator charged with the crime/I'm willing to admit that it feels good to be a victim sometimes."
As a victim, one reaps enormous social benefits, including the following:
1) You get lots of sympathy
2) You get a feeling of moral superiority over your abuser
3) If you're a woman, nobody will question your bona fides as a feminist, because the whole idea is being a woman oppressed by men
4) Nobody blames you for anything, but you can blame anybody for everything
5) You get a free pass for acting out
6) You can win any argument by whipping out your scars
7) You don't ever have to take responsibility for anything
8) You get to play games, including YOU CAN'T HELP ME, PLEASE DON'T KICK ME, RAPO, and YOU'RE BLAMING THE VICTIM.
The appeal is enormous, and the only thing contrary is the idea of having a healthy sexual relationship. But that's not much, because such relationships are considered immoral anyway. You're supposed to have to work for a meagre amount of good in a relationship. It's supposed to be difficult or even impossible to make a relationship work. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:25:03 PM | What you dont learn from an experience you may be damned to repeat it again. Problem is if you dont know what went wrong, how can you expect a diffent outcome.
Yes people are blind to bad love relationships, there called disfunctional. If someone doesnt know what its like to experience something better or finds the disfuctional behavior a familar experience that they have dealt with, they find attraction to enter it.
A friend I knew from the 8th grade through high school graduation live in a household where disfunctional behavior abound. She was abused by a brother and her father was absent a lot of the time. She married twice to men who were abusive to her verbally abusive(brother) and neglectful(father). Last I heard she was working on a possible third marrage. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:25:47 PM | I keep having the same problem with men who are sexy, immature and
keep me around long term while they secretly keep looking.
It crushes me when I finally find out that the man I've been devoted to for so
long is looking for someone else or actually has someone else they prefer.
They seem to be psychopaths and are liars and irresponsible.
I would be delighted to have the pleasant surprise of finding one such male
who was actually as devoted and loving to me as I was to him but it has
never happened. Maybe I'm likeable but not lovable. I think this may be
the problem. I do not say to myself "hmmm, he's a lying dirtbag, I think
I will love him." It just is revealed to me after around six months that he
is a pathological liar who has been chasing women secretly the whole time
I've known him.
Most of what happens when we choose someone is unconcious and out or our
control. We cannot control the subconcious or the heart, it has a mind of it's own. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:35:49 PM |
I think I finally came to a nice balance.
Great post, shows a lot of thought and introspection!
The men that I've been involved with and had relationships with, just because I'm not WITH them means by default they're horrid people or inherently evil. 
All of them had qualities that attracted me and that I appreciated.
Ehh...I'll attempt to say this, but it's not like a smorgasboard. I'm thinking of a movie, maybe it was "Weird Science" where they made the perfect woman.
It's not a default that because a relationship ends one or both are terminally flawed..undatable or unworthy of love.
It takes time and the absolutely required risk of being that close and becoming that involved that reveals incompatability. You can discuss it, try to work through it, but there's just some things about a person they can't change or shouldn't. That's just who they are, it's the fear of letting go and cutting them loose for some...because...ehh...well they'll have to explain. What happened to so and so...blah blah...or just stay in it because...it's someone. It's A relationship...it's a big red flag for me personally to listen to someone who has had relationships end to end and never spent even one year alone. A year...EGAD...six months, three weeks...back in the saddle again.
And to date, when I talk with these individuals, it's the same, the "new" relationship, usually very fast, and SOOO much in love. But they're not happy, have doubts, but hey they're with someone.
Sometimes it's just as easy as letting them talk. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:53:09 PM |
Are they even aware that they are blaming the other person and not accepting any responsibility for their poor choice in a partner? I think this may be the case with many of the people, who constantly post in dating site forums claiming to be perpetual relationship victims.
If one person is constantly claiming that everyone of his/her numerous past relationship partners was a ________ (take your pick of "jerk" "liar" "psycho" "loser" "azzhole" or scumbag"), I'd begin to suspect that it wasn't the partners who were the problem. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:00:54 PM |
I keep having the same problem with men If you keep having the same problem, who's fault would that be?
They seem to be psychopaths and are liars and irresponsible. Do you have the worst luck in the entire world?
or
Do you just use really poor judgement when blindly jumping into relationships?
or
Are you just one of those childishly bitter people that angrilly calls every former partner "psychopaths" and "liars" ?
Most of what happens when we choose someone is unconcious and out or our
control. I'd say this is bullshit.
An initial attraction may be unconcious.
But, someone capable of thinking should still be able to use enough common sense and rational judgement to avoid a very negative relationship.
Who we choose to have a relationship with is entirelywithin our control. Trying to claim it is out of your control is just someone stubbornly refusing to take responsibility for their own actions. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:20:05 PM |
People get bad relationships because that is what they go for.
Umm...scanning the profile...very revealing.
Like those who post in the single parents forums that don't have children. They're the self appointed experts with no experiential knowledge. Yeah...it's all theoretical.  | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:37:26 PM | There are a myriad of reasons why people find themselves attracted to bad characters. There are repeat patterns, trying to fill a hole in a personality, trying to resolve past relationship problems....the reasons are as diverse as individuals will be.
Relationships can escalate too quickly, before character is determined. Self esteem can make people settle for anything rather than face being alone with themselves. People make mistakes.....and learn.
There may be a disproportionate number of forum posts bemoaning repeat mistakes just because of the nature of the site. There are plenty of folks who manage to negotiate happy, functional unions. This isn't where you hear much about that.... | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/5/2009 4:22:51 AM | people are perpetual victims of their own poor choices either because they can't or won't accept that they were responsible for creating their own situation.
i was having a discussion w/ a friend of mine along these lines the other day. my point was that the nature of an intimate relationship with another person provides us with all kinds of really interesting opportunities to learn things about ourselves.... even if the relationship ends or -- maybe even more so -- *especially* if it comes to an end.
most folks find it a whole lot easier to blame the other person rather than face the really uncomfortable truth about the less flattering parts of their own character head on, and i'm no exception. the difference is, i'm more open than a lot of people to self-analysis because i'm intellectually curious about it, and because i've made a conscious effort to do so.
here's an example of what i mean. the last two relationships i've had were with men who were "emotionally unavailable". bingo, that's a pattern. so after i got ranting against all the emotional retards of the world out of my system (this took only a month or two, lol!), i had an epiphany... it suddenly dawned on me that my recent habit of picking this type of man was actually a very clear signal (yet one that i did not see, because my own ego was in the way) pointing to my own tendency to "want" a relationship just a little bit too much for my own good.... because i was convinced of my own wonderfulness as a partner (laugh!) and that i could make it work in spite of the pathological push-back from the other side. duh. and wow! and do you know how incredibly embarrassing that is to admit for a person who fancies herself to be uber-independent?!? lol. your subconscious will arrange all sorts of interesting scenarios for you in order to send a message that needs to be heard, if you'll listen.
i think relationships are just a mirror to the twilight zone of your soul, but you have to be willing to face at the nasty bits too.
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/5/2009 7:45:50 AM |
I dated someone that seemed the opposite of my ex in terms of the things that created significant problems. Over time I saw that the same underlying issues were there, he just acted differently so essentially I wound up finding someone with similar problems, just different guy. I find this interesting... and no, I'm not trying to label you as anything at all... from your forum posts and such, I find you to be an extremely level headed woman.
I'm curious though... do you think that perhaps there was something you did in the relationship to bring out the same actions/reactions in the second man? Something that you've perhaps subconsciously learned to no longer do and therefore the action/reaction will not be repeated?
My reason for asking this is... I know a woman that tends to find men that will hit her. The latest man is around 45, they've been together for almost a year and he has no history of abuse at all. Having heard a bit of her history with partners, and knowing one of her earlier partners very well, I've started to change my viewpoint that there might be something in us that brings this out in partners, without there having to be a predisposition towards the behaviour.
Kinda like this:
One thing I will point out, for the sake of making some people think, is the second group, where the person is the cause of her own problematic, repeat the same behavior and actions (thus receiving the same reaction); as those people never see themselves as the initiator but as the victim.
I've met and known very few people how know themselves well at all. I have to agree wholeheartedly with this statement. I'll even admit that I don't really know myself to the extent that I probably should. I'm fortunate in that I generally make good choices, and I accept that at face value and I'd never really stopped to wonder why I make the choices I do, why I bypass the men that are abusive or whatever other negative trait can be thought of and I choose the men that are for the most part, loving, kind, honest and reliable. This isn't to say I haven't kissed a few frogs that have stayed frogs...
We are responsible for how we respond, it's a choice and noone ever gets it right all the time. Hence the frogs comment...
The appeal is enormous, I don't see the appeal in being a victim... of any kind actually. I cringe at the thought of someone showing me sympathy and quite honestly, I don't deal well with it at all.
It's supposed to be difficult or even impossible to make a relationship work. I've always maintained that relationships aren't difficult at all. If someone finds themselves in a situation where it's actual work to maintain, then perhaps it's time to rethink the whole concept of that relationship.
I'm not saying there's no give in it... but the giving in a loving relationship is a pleasure, not work...
We cannot control the subconcious or the heart, it has a mind of it's own. We might not be able to control who we are attracted to, but we can certainly control who we become involved with.
I find powerful, egocentric men quite attractive... like the character of Dr. House... (I had a conversation about him the other day and this is why he comes to mind as an example). I find men that are like him to be hugely alluring - but I don't date them, I see the issues that a man like that would bring to a relationship and I avoid it... not really difficult to do. It's simply a matter of self-control.
it's the fear of letting go and cutting them loose for some...because...ehh...well they'll have to explain. What happened to so and so...blah blah...or just stay in it because...it's someone. I actually understand this one... I stayed in a relationship when I was in my early 20s because of not wanting to start over again, not wanting to admit that I made a mistake in my choice of a partner. It was a huge eye opener once things ended and my support structure of friends and family voiced their opinion that they were amazed I stuck it out so long. That was when I realized that the people whose opinions matter to me most love me regardless of what I do, and they support me in all decisions I make in life. Fortunately they're also there to swat me upside the head when I pull a bonehead move too...
personally to listen to someone who has had relationships end to end and never spent even one year alone. A year...EGAD...six months, three weeks...back in the saddle again. Ditto... I've actually come to enjoy being single. I have more time to give to my family and friends... this isn't to say I won't eventually enjoy a relationship, it's just not high on my list of priorities. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/5/2009 10:24:22 AM |
Are they even aware that they are blaming the other person and not accepting any responsibility for their poor choice in a partner? I think this may be the case with many of the people, who constantly post in dating site forums claiming to be perpetual relationship victims.
If one person is constantly claiming that everyone of his/her numerous past relationship partners was a ________ (take your pick of "jerk" "liar" "psycho" "loser" "azzhole" or scumbag"), I'd begin to suspect that it wasn't the partners who were the problem.
Oh they're aware that they're playing the blame game, but they have conveniently put the responsibility of their failures in the "X Factor" which around here is pretty much A) hormones, B) the "heart" (which has a *ahem* mind of its own), or C) love blindness/unconscious choice.
And it's so sad to see. A whole lot of finger pointing, but very little in the way of acknowledging that THEY are the ONLY constant in their failed relationships. If they keep getting into relationships with these losers, liars, scumbags, or psychos...what, praytell does that say about their OWN character I wonder? Sorry, but NO ONE'S luck is that bad. We all meet at least one bad apple in the cart, but for them...we'd have to dig through all the bad apples to see if there was even ONE good one in there.
It's always someone else's fault, especially the "X Factor". I've seen it time and time again on these boards and out there in the real world. A complete disregard or personal accountability is what it boils down to. They keep picking the same jet trash, get burned for it, then come on here and whine that "All men are..." or "All women are..." (this and that). The worst ones are the ones that make the mistake, and rather than repeat it with someone else (or OMG learn from their error), they repeat it with the same beau. The "on again/off again" crowd. They're the worst offenders.
And you can't swing a cat around here without stumbling on one of those types...
These people aren't victims at all. They're just abusing their blond moments to the Nth degree. If anything, they're just victims of their own incompetence and stupidity.
If insanity is defined as making the same mistake over and over expecting a different result each time...then when these clearly insane types meet the scumbags and liars and jerks and such...who really gets the short end of the stick?
Hmm...bet ya didn't think of that, did ya?
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/5/2009 12:55:49 PM |
I am however curious as to what might be the underlying issue that the perpetual victims have that lead them to making the same choices over and over again with the same results. Are people such as this truly blind to the situation? Are they even aware that they are blaming the other person and not accepting any responsibility for their poor choice in a partner?
Excellent topic! 
I think most battered women have an inner rage just waiting to explode, dating the same type of man and disregarding the same mistakes is an attempt to gain victory...If the relationship failed the first time they will continue to sub-consciously date the same type in hope of succeeding, it's the victory they're so often trying to accomplish...."this time he will love me" and the vicious cycle continues...the minute they become aware of their actions things change, even the end result. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/5/2009 1:25:00 PM | Insight anyone? I don't claim to be a psychologist, but I'm guessing there are several reasons, maybe they are taken in combination in certain scenarios. The funny is when someone posts their problem/issue in these forums, more often than not feedback is offered and the OP simply egotistically dismisses it, as if he/she can't possibly be wrong. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:20:37 PM |
They are caught in patterns....Normally, one day people wake up and realize the common factor in all their relationships is themselves.
Well you know what they say...always do what you've always done, and you'll always get what you've always got.
Simple. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:27:18 PM | | Amen to you. We think alike. I am more of, if it doesn't work for me the first time. I make sure the 2nd time is going to be different. We are in charge of our own action and decision. You are to blame for what you made up of your life and nobody else. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:38:28 PM | For all you self righteous, self proclaimed thereapists: Maybe some of us have issues because of abuse. Maybe it's abuse we're dealing with, maybe we've hidden it in such a dark place we've never delt with it. Maybe our 'self' has been so hidden we can't find it! Maybe we don't know how to 'not' repeat it!
And for the person who started this thread: Why do you care? | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:56:47 PM | | Then I guess it's time for you to seek help/therapy. You seems to acknowledged where the problem is coming from and it is time for you to be responsible and to take action and get some help. It is not about self righteousness or proclaiming to be a good therapist, it is all about common sense and taking accountability of your mistakes and correct it. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/5/2009 5:57:44 PM |
For all you self righteous, self proclaimed thereapists: Maybe some of us have issues because of abuse. Maybe it's abuse we're dealing with, maybe we've hidden it in such a dark place we've never delt with it. Maybe our 'self' has been so hidden we can't find it! Maybe we don't know how to 'not' repeat it!
For anyone who actually realizes this about themselves to the point of defensiveness, one would hope you have sought some form of cognitive behaviour therapy that will teach you the skills to learn how to rethink in order to avoid repetition. If it's something that makes you angry when the topic is brought up, you're not blind to the cause but you're doomed to the repetition if you don't get some help trying to figure out how to get past it. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:02:14 PM |
If insanity is defined as making the same mistake over and over expecting a different result each time...then when these clearly insane types meet the scumbags and liars and jerks and such...who really gets the short end of the stick?
Hmm...bet ya didn't think of that, did ya? No BDJ, I hadn't considered this at all. Now if we could just get them all to an island...
If the relationship failed the first time they will continue to sub-consciously date the same type in hope of succeeding, it's the victory they're so often trying to accomplish...."this time he will love me" Kinda, sorta... not quite though...
I'm thinking more the people that aren't looking to find the abuser and correct him, it's the women (and men) that tend to seek out the exact same things... I've known women to walk around with their black eyes and fat lips wearing them like badges of honour. I live in an area where it's more common than most to find abuse in a relationship and when I had a bit of a hiking accident where a branch swung back and hit me in the face leaving some scratches and a bruise, the first thing that people thought was that I had been back handed. That was a huge dousing of reality of the environment hitting me...
The funny is when someone posts their problem/issue in these forums, more often than not feedback is offered and the OP simply egotistically dismisses it, as if he/she can't possibly be wrong. Kinda makes you wonder why they've posted the questions then huh?
Maybe some of us have issues because of abuse. Maybe it's abuse we're dealing with, maybe we've hidden it in such a dark place we've never delt with it. Maybe our 'self' has been so hidden we can't find it! Maybe we don't know how to 'not' repeat it! Excellent!!! Now my question to you is this... if you are aware that you have an issue, and you are aware that there are options for resolving this... why don't you? Seriously... I'm not being facetious, I'm truly interested in why a person would prefer to jump from poor relationship to poor relationship than take the steps to become someone that can recognize a healthy relationship and seek that out...
And for the person who started this thread: Why do you care? Why not care? I'm curious also as to why you seem so defensive regarding this topic. Perhaps something in here can assist you with whatever issues you are encountering... | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/5/2009 6:02:22 PM | they ARE the "perpetual victims" you describe. The underlying issue is a total LACK of introspection as well as the sense of entitlement that they SHOULDNT HAVE TO account for their own screwups.
In particular.. the ones who say.. "Oh, he changed"
Principles like Integrity, honor, character, kindness, caring, sacrifice, compromise just dont CHANGE to the situation.. they are as much a part of a person as their right arm.. and last I checked.. right arms dont CHANGE after an event.. other than an INVOLUNTARY amputation. Principles cant be amputated. | |
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