| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:17:01 PM |
how come the murder rate is so much lower in countries that have gun control than in the U.S. that doesn't have gun control? You seem very sincere and ask a good question,I researched and found this very good article ,I already knew it was this,I see nothing has changed,but I have read nothing on the topic for 20 years until now,its all facts,statistics ,loads of research and includes the world charts .Upon reading the statistics,charts,facts,I learned your statement does not live up to the facts on the subject,feed you curiosity and read the article written by A criminologist,professor,and constitutional lawyer and also an author on just that subject.
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=72 | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:32:34 PM |
Even before England banned firearms their violent crime rates were lower. However, violent crime has skyrocketed in England since the ban. For the first time in history their violent crime rates surpass those of the US.
Link?. . . or it didn't happen. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:32:53 PM |
Even before England banned firearms their violent crime rates were lower. However, violent crime has skyrocketed in England since the ban. For the first time in history their violent crime rates surpass those of the US.
You want to back this statement up?
Lets look at the murder rate per capita between the U.S. and Britain.
Coming in at number 24 in the world, the U.S with a rate of 0.042802 per 1,000 people.
The United Kingdom is #46 with 0.0140633 per 1,000 people .
Canada, another country with tight gun control laws is #44 with a rate of 0.0149063 per 1,000 people.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
How about murders with firearms per capita? The U.S. comes in at number 8 with 0.0279271 per 1,000 people and the U.K. is #32 with a rate of 0.00102579 per 1,000 people. Thats like 1 firearm murder for every 28 in the U.S.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita
Maybe in the UK they are beating each other up at soccer matches but they sure as heck aren't shooting each other. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:54:08 PM | | Those statistics are great and all but look how small the populations of Canada and the UK are....as the population increases so does the potential for violent crime.....show me a country with strict gun control laws that is similar to America in population and diversity.....that has lower incidents of Gun violence...then that may mean something... | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:21:33 PM | All the stats are per capita. You're setting up impossible criteria.
We have strict gun control laws and similar population diversity. We have much lower PER CAPITA rates of violence. In fact, our biggest problem is sharing a border with a nation that has no real gun control laws. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:50:43 PM | Nope, only valid comparisons would be counties similar to us in size with large urban populations with cultural diversity similar to ours....comparing us to Canada is ridiculous you have 1/5 th our population and are much bigger, besides are n't the French known for being pacifists,,,,lol...England has 1/10th of our population with different demographics.....
DC has some of the strictest gun control Laws in America and still has extremely high incidents of crimes committed with Guns... | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 5:14:30 PM | Here is a comparison between Toronto and 33 major American cities. I think the comparison is fair. Toronto came in with the lowest rate of 1.8 homicides per 100,000. Detroit was the highest at 47.3. While culture and demographics will make some difference, the biggest difference are the gun laws.
http://torontoist.com/2008/07/metrocide_a_tale_of_sixty_cities.php | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 5:16:45 PM | show me a country with strict gun control laws that is similar to America in population and diversity.....that has lower incidents of Gun violence...then that may mean something...
That's ridiculous. You might as well say - "... show me a country with strict gun control laws that was founded in 1776, is between Canda and Mexico,......"
As one poster pointed out, the murder rates being discussed are pro-rated. In addition, Canada (and many other countries) have very diverse populations too - and if If you're trying to somehow link population to murder rate, then a fairer way to do it would be to compare population density rates. Many of the countries that have lower murder rates have far greater population density rates.
My thoughts are that there are a few things that link together to cause the U.S. murder rate.
1) The ease of getting guns,
2) the fact that the U.S. is a me-take-care-of-me society, that stresses personal gain as success, combined with the fact that it doesn't have the social safety nets that other countries have. Thus many people are left feeling that they are on their own in a situation where the cards are stacked against them - everyone else is taking care of themselves and getting a piece of the pie - I want a piece too. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 5:27:48 PM | Canada has the same urban/rural mix. Very similar history, immigration patterns, settlement patterns, racial diversity - Hell, we even watch the same TV shows, movies and listen to the same music. Toronto is the 5th biggest city in North America.
We just have a smaller population. Name the other countries with at least 300 million people - Russian, China, India, Indonesia (?), - I don't think there are any others. By including population size, you essentially ensure that your position is unassailable. That's called a tautology and is only used when you're trying to defend a ridiculous position. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:10:33 PM | Well maybe it would have been better if those who responded with their own guns (allowed to carry guns on base) when Hasan began shooting would have not been so eager because now they're saying the numbers just don't add up when considering the weapon Hasan was using.
They're saying there's just no way he could have gotten off enough shots to do that much damage and now they're saying they think now they have to think in terms of "friendly fire" as being responsible for some of the victims. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 12:49:44 AM |
Link?. . . or it didn't happen.
http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome
All the stats are per capita. You're setting up impossible criteria.
Per capita is misleading. Per capita crime rates increase with increasing population density, as well as other factors.
http://www.ci.cambridge.ma.us/cpd/reports/1998/factors.html
We have strict gun control laws and similar population diversity. We have much lower PER CAPITA rates of violence. In fact, our biggest problem is sharing a border with a nation that has no real gun control laws.
The US has thousands of gun control laws. Gun control actually leads to higher crime.
http://deepwaterweb.com/gunstudy.htm
The US and Canada don't have similar population densities. Canada has about 9 people per square mile and the US has about 76 people per square mile.
http://geography.about.com/od/populationgeography/a/popdensity.htm | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 7:13:05 AM | Canada has been described as a nation 5000 miles long and 30 miles wide. Most of us live in cities, just like most of you. Empty spaces doesn't affect the actual population density as it is felt by the people living here.
Gun control leads to higher crime in the same way crimes against murder causes murder. That's just stupid. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 7:35:19 AM |
I just heard a report that most personnel at FT Hood are no allowed to carry firearms. They are stored in secure areas. It seems to me that if we trust these people to carry firearms in Iraq, we should trust them within their own base at the very least.
If someone had a firearm, to use in self defense, I have no doubt the gun man would have been disabled early on. What do you think?
As a combat veteran I disagree with you, putting weapons into the hands of anyone without a clear target represents a real risk to anyone in the area, soldiers wearing a uniform may be able to pick a target quickly if the target is not wearing a uniform or if there are not other off duty soldiers in civilian clothing.
This is the same reason I am against people being allowed to run around wearing their weapons on their person | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:32:02 AM |
Current numbers. . .
http://www.gun-control-network.org/GCN02.htm
Misleading numbers. Sure, gun crime has decreased, but violent crime has skyrocketed.
http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2009/07/uk_is_violent_c.php | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:34:57 AM |
Gun control leads to higher crime in the same way crimes against murder causes murder. That's just stupid.
That's just a stupid analogy.
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 12:10:57 PM | As a combat veteran I disagree with you, putting weapons into the hands of anyone without a clear target represents a real risk to anyone in the area,
Thank you for your service.
Following the rules of gun safety would preclude them from firing unless they:
Know your target and what is beyond.
Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 1:26:28 PM |
Nope, only valid comparisons would be counties similar to us in size with large urban populations with cultural diversity similar to ours....comparing us to Canada is ridiculous you have 1/5 th our population and are much bigger, besides are n't the French known for being pacifists,,,,lol...England has 1/10th of our population with different demographics.....
England has a much higher population density than the US. If anything you would expect more violence.
DC has some of the strictest gun control Laws in America and still has extremely high incidents of crimes committed with Guns...
But you guys already overturned that. And its not like you get frisked at the city limits if you bring guns in. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 1:58:31 PM | Gun control is nonsense, proof shows it does not work,I already left a link so did a few others.I watched a PBS show years ago where they showed a vast collection of weapons used to murder,and none were guns,that was their point.Its intent not the weapons,heck one 90 lb.gal can drive a truck 80 mph into a crowd for the same effect,crazy people do what ever it takes and what ever they have,who knows, lack of gun might be why one will strike a match and burn down a building. Its intent,crazy people do crazy things !
p.s. history has shown several examples of where government took away the citizens weapons and then government took over.I don't own a gun,have not for many years,but wish I did, for home protection !my brother a cop,repeatedly asks me too ! | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 2:10:59 PM |
Misleading numbers. Sure, gun crime has decreased, but violent crime has skyrocketed.
My bad, I thought the topic of this thread was about gun control not general violent crimes that may not even have a gun involved.
Speaking of misleading, did you even bother to read to the end of the article you posted?
“Violent crime in England and Wales has fallen by almost a half since a peak in 1995 but we are not complacent and know there is still work to do. “ | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 3:52:19 PM | I agree it is possible..but I think shooting 43 and killing 7 of them shows a level of HATE....kind of scary also that we have people that feel that way about the Wars serving in our Military....makes you wonder about Friendly Fire deaths....
- How about the US millitary bombarding all the cities in Afghanistan, killing villagers, innocent kids that have nothing to do with the war, ruining infrastructure and creating terror in Afghanistan and Iraq?
Hmmm.............
I guess that doesn't count as "HATE" because "WE are RIGHT" when we kill others and invade their countries, right? :62:
P.S. Not defending what this Lunatic did at Fort Hood, but we are doing the same exact thing when we are bombarding places in Afghanistan with the drones without thinking for a second that there are innocent people in those houses that get killed for no reason.
P. S. Not defending the lunatic at Fort Hood, but when we are flying drones in villages and bombarding houses and villages, we kill innocent children, men and women living in those houses. To me, that is a form of terrorism.
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 4:17:22 PM | | Nope they are different issues...we have a Muslim who may have posted on extremist web sites and made anti american anti war statements who shot over 40 people killing 13.This was an American who may have been sympathetic to the plight of Muslims who for whatever reason decided to declare Jihad on his fellow American soldiers.... | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 5:15:32 PM | etourdi
Nope they are different issues..
- In your eyes, it might be different issues, but killing innocent people whether in the United States or anywhere else in the world is terroristic act.
we have a Muslim who may have posted on extremist web sites and made anti american anti war statements who shot over 40 people killing 13.
- First of all, let's make this clear. Someone with a Muslim name doesn't necessarily mean that he/she is Muslims. You sound exactly like CNN and Fox that keep labelling people as "Muslims" without knowing whether they REALLY practice the religion and it is impossible to know from someone's inside what they believe in, but I guess the news networks are pretty great at making ASSSSSUMPTIONS.
- How come the News networks don't label someone whose name is "Peter" or "John" as "Christian men" killed 43 people?
- Just because someone has a name that connects him to a religion doesn't necessarily mean that he is follower of that religion.
- Could you show us those posts that he made where he made anti-american remarks? If not, then I don't see any proof of it, which means that even the news networks are wrong on that. ASSSSSUMPTIONS. 
This was an American who may have been sympathetic to the plight of Muslims who for whatever reason decided to declare Jihad on his fellow American soldiers....
- Whether you are Muslim, Christian, Jew or atheist, you should care for humanity and human life and be sympathetic to all humans, so what he did isn't sympathy to the plight of Muslims.
- He never declared any type of "jihad" , nor there is any evidence of that at all unless you are the only who has a video recording of him saying that as part of your supporting your baseless claim.
- By the way, "Jihad" doesn't mean "holy war" and I am sure you are using that in that context just like the rest of the US media without knowing the actual meaning of that word in Arabic.
But........
- We shouldn't forget that the situation created in Afghanistan and Iraq is because of illegal invasion in those countries, terrorizing of the people in those countries, killing their innocent children, sabotaging their infrastructure, etc. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 6:05:18 PM |
My bad, I thought the topic of this thread was about gun control not general violent crimes that may not even have a gun involved.
That's because people who are anti-gun never bother to look at the consequences of disarming the general populace. The consequence being increased violent crime.
Speaking of misleading, did you even bother to read to the end of the article you posted?
Yes I did. Did you read the rest of it? | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/7/2009 6:15:22 PM | Got to love how people have sympathy for a man who just killed 13 Americans in America, a man who was charged with the psychological welfare or American soldiers....
I am not a scholar but Jihad of the sword would apply depending on Hasan......
Its nice how you don't really have a valid argument so you put your anti war anti American spin on everything....
Like I said he allegedly posted on those sites I am sure the info will never come to light much like the tape of Obama at at the Rashid Kalide speech never came to light....for some reason many Americans have a real issue with confronting reality....I found one source that said the postings were on scribd website but of course they are not available....
Just because someone has a name that connects him to a religion doesn't necessarily mean that he is follower of that religion I agree, but when there are witnesses who state that the person in question has made statements about how the muslims should attack the aggressors, and that American is in the wrong for the wars etc.....it doesnt take much to put two and two together.... | |
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