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 Author Thread: Unemployment hits 10.2%
 FireKnight

Joined: 4/24/2006
Msg: 26
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:10:21 PM
reposted
The package is mostly for show and useless. What needs to happen are fundimental changes in corporate law and a return of regulatory oversight. The new rules Obama has put forward about CEO salaries and bonuses are a start in the right direction but not nearly enough.

Uncompensated offshoring needs to be eliminated. You offshore your labor then you either pay increased taxes or your product is considered import and TARRIFFED so.

Tax Loopholes need to be closed

Board conflict of interests need to be prosecuted

Corporate personhood and lobbying stopped

lots more. We will be lucky if this is just 5 years
 dmotz

Joined: 11/19/2008
Msg: 27
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:18:04 PM

: reposted
The package is mostly for show and useless. What needs to happen are fundimental changes in corporate law and a return of regulatory oversight. The new rules Obama has put forward about CEO salaries and bonuses are a start in the right direction but not nearly enough.

Uncompensated offshoring needs to be eliminated. You offshore your labor then you either pay increased taxes or your product is considered import and TARRIFFED so.

Tax Loopholes need to be closed

Board conflict of interests need to be prosecuted

Corporate personhood and lobbying stopped


I agree. There needs to be more done, but what is it? I for one am of the opinion that WE CAN NOT GET OUT OF TROUBLE THAT WAS CAUSED BY BORROWING AND OVERSPENDING......BY BORROWING AND OVERSPENDING!
 78outdoorsguy

Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 28
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/6/2009 2:54:27 PM
"Currently, we don’t think it will get to 10 percent. Our current number is somewhere in the 9s.”

-Ben Bernanke, Chairman of the Federal Reserve testifying before Congress’s joint economic committee (May 5, 2009)


“That’s a story I’m confident will be repeated at companies across the country — companies that are currently struggling to borrow money selling their products, struggling to make payroll, but could find themselves in a different position when we start implementing the plan,” Obama said. “Rather than downsizing, they may be able to start growing again. Rather than cutting jobs, they may be able to create them again.”

- President Obama (February 13, 2009)

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/flashback-bernanke-on-unemployment-we-dont-think-it-will-get-to-10-percent_11062009
 one eyed jacks

Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 29
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:05:38 PM

"Currently, we don’t think it will get to 10 percent. Our current number is somewhere in the 9s.”

-Ben Bernanke, Chairman of the Federal Reserve testifying before Congress’s joint economic committee (May 5, 2009)


So I guess they were wrong. What's your point? You think they are first economists or politicians to miss an estimate?

What was your suggestion for dealing with the economic meltdown?
 etourdi77

Joined: 7/7/2009
Msg: 31
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:46:15 PM
Gotta love the Obama supporter spin....."but this administration has SLOWED it down." Really couldnt it just be that it slowed on its own considering now 16,000,000 plus Americans are out of work......I like how Obama supporters have no real answer as to why the Great "Stimulus" Plan has created so few jobs.......and How the Great stimulus Plan failed to keep unemployment under 8%....actually the percentage of unemployed is much higher than reflected by the rate the rate only reflects new filings and people on the rolls it doesnt reflect those whose benefits have run out.....keep trying with the spin though....Kumbya Kumbya.....
 EarlzP

Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 33
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/7/2009 6:26:09 AM

In all seriousness folks...I am not going to bash the administration. I think the stimulus plan is not working and our leaders need to rethink what they are doing with the money. I was against the stimulus plan when Bush did it and I am against the one Obama did. Buy outs of GM and banks and the bail out of wall street. We have employers laying off more and more people and there is no end in site. I do not think we are out of the recession and it is going to get worse.
As for the bail outs, GM should have filed bankruptcy and restructured, the wall street gang are the ones who got us into some of this mess and they should have been forced to restructure as well. As for Fannie and Freddy, Bill Clinton, Barney Frank and even Republicans should never have given them the go ahead to give loans to people who could not afford them.
This is a mess ....


Talking about what if's and what has been done is not going to lead to a good unbiased discussion about what we can do to change what appears to be a problem that is not going to go away, lining up by party lines won't get this job done, we need a united front to let our representataives know what we want done to minimize the economic damage we are facing as we move into this global economy.

Here are my suggestions, I am semi-retired working a part time business of my own, drawing social security and collecting two pensions, my concerns are for all of those who are not in as safe a position as I am.

Dmotz I agree with you this is a mess

I am not an economist but if you identify the elements needed to grow or maintain an economy that would be a good place to start

1-Spending- a healthy economy requires people spending money buying goods and services

2-people need a way to obtain money if they don’t have it they can not spend it

3- People need employment/jobs in order to have the money to spend that will fuel our economy

4- Employment- in order to have employment there needs to be people buying goods and services

So if we are buying a lot of goods and services that are produced outside of our country that will fuel job opportunities just not for the United States and not for Americans

President Obama apparently understands the elements that are needed to trigger job growth and has tried to stimulate the economy by creating short term employment “shovel ready jobs” and saving existing jobs

Out sourcing needs to be stopped or heavily taxed the legaliy of which I as not sure of, but having said that as Americans we do not need to do business with any company that out sources our jobs.

As Americans we can not presently compete in the job market with countries that have average wages lower then our minimum wage so we need to tell our representatives that we want tariffs put on products that cost us jobs here at home, even if we can’t compete we can start to make it less attractive for companies that want to do business here to make their products in foreign countries

Our government has to subsidize businesses that want to compete with businesses that are operating outside of our country; other countries are subsidizing their companies, the same companies that already have a tremendous advantage over companies struggling to stay in America.

We can’t sit back and let foreign made products continue to suck the economy out of America, if we were attacked by foreign troops or weapons we would respond using every possible means to defeat our enemy, our economy is and has been under attack by foreign made goods and services this is war and the future of our country is at stake.

We are also under attack from within by the greed of wall street, it should not take a rocket scientist to under stand that with all of the billionaires and millionaires that make their fortunes on wall street that money is coming from some where and that some where is the investors if wall street is making it small investors are losing it
 dmotz

Joined: 11/19/2008
Msg: 34
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:10:26 AM
Well damn....I actually agree Earl..who would have thunk it?
My only issue is the debt we will be building.
Tax the hell out of the US based companies that have left our shores and yet still sell products here.
Wall Street is not the only place to find greed or bad policy Earl. Wall street responds to various factors. With out slamming those I think are responsible for the housing crisis, the loans given to people who could not afford them killed it. No interest payments, balloon payments,110% financing and no money down are just a few of the poor actions by Fannie and Freddie.

I do not care which party fixes this mess and I know it is going to take years to do...but I do not agree that all the blame goes to Bush and the Republicans. The fact is ...both parties caused this mess and we should have seen it coming 20 years ago...
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 35
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:07:54 AM
Msg 34 ^^^^I do not care which party fixes this mess and I know it is going to take years to do...but I do not agree that all the blame goes to Bush and the Republicans. The fact is ...both parties caused this mess and we should have seen it coming 20 years ago...^^^

Obama knew the mess this country was in. Obama knew voters worried about his inexperience, yet he said that the was the man. So many people last year took him at his word.

The mess has gotten worse, especially unemployment.
What Obama has done has not helped unemployment, especially as he has promised several times this year.
What very few jobs that were saved or created by the stimulus cost the taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars for each job.
Most of the very few jobs created that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars for each job were and are short term jobs.
 flyguy51

Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 36
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:49:29 AM

FLYGUY...the article is true..Why is the rate higher for African Americans? I do not know, but it is a shame either way. Your feeble attempt to make me out to be a racist is a flop..

I was not disputing the stats, nor was I trying to make you out to be a racist-- I'm afraid you missed my point entirely. I was pointing out the inconsistency of people who often take issue with racial breakdowns when that breakdown does not help support their worldview. In this case, there is silence on the issue because the info in question DOES support their worldview. And believe me, in the past, when I have made people out as racists, the attempts were never feeble.

There also seems to be silence on the point that unemployment lags behind economic recovery...
 cpfstock

Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 37
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:38:33 AM

I ask what would you do if you were president. How would you go about creating jobs.


1. stop spending money we don't have (see UHC) at this time
2. promote the use of natgas as fuel for large vehicles and transportation fleets with transition to using it as fuel for most transportation
a. this would spur a job creating drilling boom in the U.S.
b. this would spur jobs to build out the infrastructure to support the transition
* pipeline expansion
* fueling station construction and conversion
* lower imported fuels and reduce our balance of payment deficeits
3. Enact tax incentives for plant expansions of all types making the increased revenue tax exempt for a period of 10 years.
4. Allow accelerated depreciation of capital expenditures
5. Pass favorable tax treatment for the construction of nuclear power electric generating plants.
6. Eliminate the Departments of Energy and Education
7. Freeze most if not all federal hiring
8. Eliminate the double taxation of dividends
9. Bring Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae under sound fisical management and quit operating them like a hedge fund
10. Redirect the misguided stimulus spending to primarily upgrading the electrical grid of the midwest and northeast. They're in bad shape.
11. Pass legislation to reform healthcare to include tighter restrictions on "pre-existing" condition denial, increased portability, states restricting access to their markets and tort reform limitations.
I got more, but I'm tired of typing right now.
 cpfstock

Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 38
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:40:59 AM

So I guess they were wrong. What's your point? You think they are first economists or politicians to miss an estimate?[/quote}

He (they) knew better. Heck, if I knew back last fall unemployment was going over 10% and post such here long before May, then the Fed knew also. He was lying.
 EarlzP

Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 39
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:52:18 AM

I was serious folks..this is not a bash Obama thread. I hear my side{conservative] and I hear the opposing sides. What I want to know is what you think should be done?


As you can see from the number of bloggers that responded in a positive way with what they thought would help get "us" out of this mess that they are really only interested in confrontation, I think people have forgot that " a divided house can not stand"


I believe we should give incentives to those companies that left and went abroad. I think NAFTA WAS A BIG MISTAKE. How about we not buy products from who were once US based companies till they come home and provide jobs. If it takes tax breaks to get them here then so be it.
We have to find a way to get these companies back on our soil.


I would not be opposed to giving companies that return to the USA tax cuts but they would have to return prior to taking the tax cut


The stimulus is not working folks. If it was working, the democrat claims of unemployment NOT REACHING 8% would be accurate.


The unemployment number has never been accurate, but it is closer now because unemployment benefits have been increased from 26 weeks to 99 weekks the number is now closer to accurate but naturally the extention in benefit time adds to the percentage of unemployed


FLYGUY...the article is true..Why is the rate higher for African Americans? I do not know, but it is a shame either way. Your feeble attempt to make me out to be a racist is a flop..


I think that there has always been a disaportionate number of African Americans unemployed this just points out the need to work on the factors that are making it harder for minorities to find employent
 dmotz

Joined: 11/19/2008
Msg: 40
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/8/2009 7:26:54 AM

As you can see from the number of bloggers that responded in a positive way with what they thought would help get "us" out of this mess that they are really only interested in confrontation, I think people have forgot that " a divided house can not stand"


We all get heated about politics. I am guilty as you know, as we all are.


I would not be opposed to giving companies that return to the USA tax cuts but they would have to return prior to taking the tax cut


Agreed...But I would make it clear as day that if they return then leave again, the products they sell will not be sold in the US..Harsh yes, but we have to keep companies here.



The unemployment number has never been accurate, but it is closer now because unemployment benefits have been increased from 26 weeks to 99 weekks the number is now closer to accurate but naturally the extention in benefit time adds to the percentage of unemployed


The numbers are still not accurate Earl. The number of people who have fallen OFF the unemployment rolls after the benefits run out puts the unemployment rate much higher.


I think that there has always been a disproportionate number of African Americans unemployed this just points out the need to work on the factors that are making it harder for minorities to find employment


Jobs need to be created for ALL Americans. The higher number of Blacks unemployed is caused by a number of factors. What are they? I am not sure. I wish every American who wanted a job ...had one.
 etourdi77

Joined: 7/7/2009
Msg: 41
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/8/2009 7:28:33 AM
It is not our place to come up with solutions...we were told that Obama had the tools necessary to get the job done...He allegedly appointed only the best and the brightest you know like Geitner.....He made promises based on these appointments and on his Stimulus plan..now that it is not working Liberals have taken up the argument "what would you do?" I am not President nor am I an Economist, Obamas Job is to manage America, he is Failing! so much of his time and effort has been in trying to get HRC passed which in reality will not do anything to help the economy in the near future.....now that it has passed the House maybe He and his best and Brightest will start to make a Sincere effort in fixing the Economy....

Funny to see posters trying to say that the unemployment numbers have never been accurate of course they haven't, unemployment is always much higher than what the rate reflects......
 EarlzP

Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 42
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/8/2009 8:01:57 AM

It is not our place to come up with solutions...we were told that Obama had the tools necessary to get the job done...He allegedly appointed only the best and the brightest you know like Geitner.....He made promises based on these appointments and on his Stimulus plan..now that it is not working Liberals have taken up the argument "what would you do?" I am not President nor am I an Economist, Obamas Job is to manage America, he is Failing! so much of his time and effort has been in trying to get HRC passed which in reality will not do anything to help the economy in the near future.....now that it has passed the House maybe He and his best and Brightest will start to make a Sincere effort in fixing the Economy....


Your right it's not your job, a republican blogger asked for viable solutions and you offered more of the same rhetorical baloney you have offered in the past, your agenda is transparent it's not related to the economy in particular it's aimed directly at President Obama and the democrats you don't care about fixing the economy you only want to demean the present Administration.

Our President is a great multi tasker we could call him the superman of politics, he has limitless energy, he is able to tackle numerous issues at the same time. Get ready health care reform is on the horizon

Funny to see posters trying to say that the unemployment numbers have never been accurate of course they haven't, unemployment is always much higher than what the rate reflects......
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 43
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/8/2009 8:07:43 AM

It is not our place to come up with solutions...we were told that Obama had the tools necessary to get the job done...He allegedly appointed only the best and the brightest you know like Geitner


Hey Obama did get the HRC passed in Congress.....Obama has gotten the House to pass another "Landmark" $$$$$ Trillion $$$$$ Bill. While the unemployment rate goes up higher and higher, so does our national debt.

What I'm trying to figure out is if people keep losing jobs and Obama and the Democrats keep increasing our national Debt by a $$$ Trillion Dollars $$$ a bill who is going to pay for it.

As more and more people lose jobs that means more funds being paid out to programs such as unemployment, welfare, food stamps and etc.

When more and more people lose jobs, that means less income tax being paid to help pay the national debt.

Interesting Combination of Spending on the part of Obama and his Democrats...

At the rate Obama is spending our money with the increasing unemployment rates, where is the money going to come from to pay down the national debt.
 EarlzP

Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 44
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/8/2009 8:14:18 AM

As more and more people lose jobs that means more funds being paid out to programs such as unemployment, welfare, food stamps and etc.

When more and more people lose jobs, that means less income tax being paid to help pay the national debt


So what is your recommendation on creating employment? How many jobs will negativity create?
 killene

Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 45
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:03:08 AM
Not sure how we could handle all this unemployment, but spending more money while less and less is coming in, is not usually what most economist usually recommend.

Just think about it personally. Most people with any smarts who knows there will be less money coming in to pay their bills dont go out and accumulate more bills.

This seems to be the picture with the government. The higher the unemployment goes up, the more money the government spends.

Personally this would mean you have to get the money some place else, with the government it means the same thing.

So where is the government going to get the money? More taxes I guess. But who is it that will be taxed more? Just the rich, I doubt it.
 cpfstock

Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 46
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:06:16 AM
I thought I was fairly specific as to what I'd do. I didn't see any political agenda in my course of action. I only make decisions based on the economics and the money. I'm am not a member of any political party. In fact, I rarely vote in anything but local elections.
But this admimistration is setting economic policy and programs in place which are not only not working in the short run, but will be enormously harmful in the long term. When the bill comes due for all this deficeit spending the economic catastrophe that will ensue in hard to imagine. Once the Fed backs out of the MBS market and all the Freddie/Fannie and FHA sub-prime ARM's have to be reset look out. As the Treasury prints the money to pay for the deficeit and the dollar weakens, inflation will come back. Then the bond ghouls will have a field day and the interest on the Federal debt will consume a larger & larger percentage of the federal tax revenues. Right now the gov't is basically borrowing money for next to nothing. That is fixing to come a halt. 2nd half of 2010 interest rates will begin to rise. 2011 they will go through the roof. This end any "recovery", jump unemployment to close to double where it is today and end the "american dream" for an entire generation.
 EarlzP

Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 47
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:03:30 PM

I thought I was fairly specific as to what I'd do. I didn't see any political agenda in my course of action. I only make decisions based on the economics and the money. I'm am not a member of any political party. In fact, I rarely vote in anything but local elections.


You were specific my apology, I left in what I thought would help


But this admimistration is setting economic policy and programs in place which are not only not working in the short run, but will be enormously harmful in the long term.


I don't agree with you some thing had to be done to slow down the economic free fall we are in shovel ready jobs, saving some jobs teachers, fireman, police were all good short term investments

We have to do a lot more in the creation of jobs, long term employment that provides our citizens with enough faith in our future that they will start spending again, if Amercian companies that are now manufacting overseas won't start to move back to the USA we have shut down our market place to their products until they decide they want to relocate their manufacturing facilities in the USA. There are many imported items that are not critical to our nations survival, close the ports to them




2. promote the use of natgas as fuel for large vehicles and transportation fleets with transition to using it as fuel for most transportation
a. this would spur a job creating drilling boom in the U.S.
b. this would spur jobs to build out the infrastructure to support the transition
* pipeline expansion
* fueling station construction and conversion
* lower imported fuels and reduce our balance of payment deficeits
3. Enact tax incentives for plant expansions of all types making the increased revenue tax exempt for a period of 10 years.

4. Allow accelerated depreciation of capital expenditures
5. Pass favorable tax treatment for the construction of nuclear power electric generating plants.
9. Bring Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae under sound fisical management and quit operating them like a hedge fund
10. Redirect the misguided stimulus spending to primarily upgrading the electrical grid of the midwest and northeast. They're in bad shape.



1. stop spending money we don't have (see UHC) at this time


The cost of health care is a major drain on our economy, we need reform that includes a public option to create incentives for health insurance companies to freeze their prices


6. Eliminate the Departments of Energy and Education
Why?


7. Freeze most if not all federal hiring


We need jobs this is not the time to freeze hiring


8. Eliminate the double taxation of dividends


Why?


11. Pass legislation to reform healthcare to include tighter restrictions on "pre-existing" condition denial, increased portability, states restricting access to their markets and tort reform limitations.


I think we have to work in the framework of the reform bill just passed in the house, if we want to reduce the number of law suits resulting from malpractice get rid of the health care providers that are practicing in a manner that leads to suits
 one eyed jacks

Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 48
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History
Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:37:08 PM

Not sure how we could handle all this unemployment, but spending more money while less and less is coming in, is not usually what most economist usually recommend.



Paul Krugman does'nt agree with you. In fact he thinks there should be a larger stimulus.

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/unemployment/


The good news is that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, a k a the Obama stimulus plan, is working just about the way textbook macroeconomics said it would. But that’s also the bad news — because the same textbook analysis says that the stimulus was far too small given the scale of our economic problems. Unless something changes drastically, we’re looking at many years of high unemployment.



Paul Krugman is Professor of Economics and International Affairs at the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs, Princeton University. Plus a Nobel prize winning economist.
 78outdoorsguy

Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 49
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History
Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/9/2009 3:51:31 AM
^^If he is such a smart and Nobel prize winning economist. Then Krugman should have seen this coming and warned us like Peter Schiff did back in 2006 and early 2007 plus all of the other warnings he gave before 2006.

Schiff warnings with dates (below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv_kLqxbtcg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdVP_sgCETo
 EarlzP

Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 50
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/9/2009 4:59:26 AM

^^If he is such a smart and Nobel prize winning economist. Then Krugman should have seen this coming and warned us like Peter Schiff did back in 2006 and early 2007 plus all of the other warnings he gave before 2006.

Schiff warnings with dates (below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv_kLqxbtcg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdVP_sgCETo


Are you trying to say this information was available in 2006/2007 and the President Bush administration ignored it? He acted so surprised when the economy went into free fall.
 one eyed jacks

Joined: 4/5/2009
Msg: 51
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Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/9/2009 6:02:30 AM

If he is such a smart and Nobel prize winning economist. Then Krugman should have seen this coming and warned us like Peter Schiff did back in 2006 and early 2007 plus all of the other warnings he gave before 2006.



I think Krugmans qualifications are impeccable.


He is Professor of Economics and International Affairs at the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs, Princeton University, Centenary Professor at the London School of Economics, and an op-ed columnist for The New York Times.[4][5] In 2008, Krugman won the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics for his contributions to New Trade Theory and New Economic Geography. He was voted sixth in Prospect Magazine's 2005 global poll of the world's top 100 intellectuals.[6]



He also warned in 2003 that the George Bush economic and foreign policies would eventually precipitate a major economic crisis.


In September, 2003, Krugman published a collection of his columns under the title, The Great Unraveling. Taken as a whole, it was a scathing attack on the George W. Bush administration's economic and foreign policies. His main argument was that the large deficits generated by the Bush administration — generated by decreasing taxes, increasing public spending, and fighting the Iraq war — were in the long run unsustainable, and would eventually generate a major economic crisis. The book was a best-seller.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Krugman#Author
 etourdi77

Joined: 7/7/2009
Msg: 52
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History
Unemployment hits 10.2%
Posted: 11/9/2009 6:30:54 AM

If he is such a smart and Nobel prize winning economist.
I wonder if they use the really strict standards for the Nobel Prize in Economics that they used for the Nobel Peace Prize?....lol
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