|
|
|
|
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/7/2009 7:39:09 PM | RE Msg: 24 by gadgetdoc:
But I have to go with Stargazer on this one we need to define God, because the Greeks saw Gods in a different way. And for a modern perspective Daoist see "God" in a different manner then the Judeo-Christian view. We also need to distinguish between the Xian view, and the Jewish view. The Jewish view of G-d is very different from the Xian view, and is far, far closer to the Muslim view of G-d. For a modern perspective, we need to talk about the Deist view, the Daoist view, the Xian view, and the Judeo-Muslim view. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/7/2009 7:44:09 PM | | I was posting in responce to the Revilors comments..no disrespect to all other bloggers. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:53:49 AM | | gadgetdoc. if that is your definition of god, it cannot exist. this is because if god is omnipotent (all knowing), it cannot act (and is therefore not all powerful) because if it acted on the omnipotent knowledge it had, it would automatically change the omnipotent knowledge to something else so it couldn't have knowledge of it (it would be different). rather like time travel, it would create a temporal illogicality. it could be an omnipotent observer with no power to act, or be capable of powerful acts without foresight. but not both. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 7:02:33 AM | RE Msg: 28 by andygardener:
gadgetdoc. if that is your definition of god, it cannot exist. this is because if god is omnipotent (all knowing), it cannot act (and is therefore not all powerful) because if it acted on the omnipotent knowledge it had, it would automatically change the omnipotent knowledge to something else so it couldn't have knowledge of it (it would be different). rather like time travel, it would create a temporal illogicality. it could be an omnipotent observer with no power to act, or be capable of powerful acts without foresight. but not both. Only if it's time-bound, like us. However, if the Being is NOT time-bound, and all-knowing, then it knows how its actions would affect the future, and can choose those actions to be consistent with their consequences in the future. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:10:05 AM |
Only if it's time-bound, like us. However, if the Being is NOT time-bound, and all-knowing, then it knows how its actions would affect the future, and can choose those actions to be consistent with their consequences in the future.
All knowing means god hasn't the freedom to make choices. If god knows everything, then god must be consistent in knowing everything. Makeing god a slave to the consistentcy of ever knowing. If it could choose, it already has full knowledge of all its choices which nullifies the choices to begin with.
All powerful means there are no consequences to gods actions. If god were all powerful it could will itself to never to have existed at all, with no consequences. But if there are consequences to gods actions, wanted or not, then god is not all powerful. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:08:53 AM | As others have said God is a concept for some people - many different people of different cultures believe in God of one form or another; it's not a universal concept. Basically it's of a higher divine power. A deity. Variations on this are rife amongst different people.
As for has God always existed and how could he have come into creation - because God has the power to perform miracles, as demonstrated via Jesus. Therefore a power which cannot be easily quantified and requires 'blind faith' (i.e. we can't see God literally) is capable of existing outside of the perameters of 'something must have created this before that'. It's the unexplained - our purpose, why we live then die and what happens beyond. I hope once we die all the mysteries of the universe (much bigger than planet earth!) and our existence become clear. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:29:20 AM |
My assertion is that if one is going to make claims concerning God then one might want to be prepared for this obvious follow up question and have a better reply than "God has always been".
Hmm..........who’s God, which God? There are innumerable choices encompassing the many thousands of different tribes of mankind. Some take physical form, shaped by the imaginings of their creator, man. Some are natural in physical form; the powers/abilities attributed to them know no bounds except for limits in the mind’s eye of their creator, man. Some are ethereal, their existence largely a by product of the fear of the unknown and the usurper’s hunger for power over others, their definitive form and capabilities are wholly dependent on the culture of those having reverence. Since grasping the very early beginnings of basic capacities for analysis and articulation, hedonistic values coupled to greed and the varying “class” levels that eventuated from acquiring knowledge, mankind has sought and created Gods to maintain power bases and in answer to the unknown.
Ahh.....yes we all know of which God you speak of.......the monotheistic God of the Semitic Tribes people of South-western Asia that now dominates a large proportion of the religious flock around the world.
Those religious beliefs were pertinent to the Semitic people exclusively and never addressed those tribes people outside of the Semitic family. For many thousands of years those primitive nomadic desert tribes roamed the region of South-western Asia. At night they huddled together around campfires to ward off the cold of the desert nights and the elders/leaders, tribal elite told stories, some to inspire, some to instil fear and through that fear maintain control and position within the tribe. The stories were transported through many millenniums by word of mouth resulting in many metamorphoses of the original.
Sit back for a moment and consider the era. You are a simple villager anywhere in Europe, it is a superstitious era and your religion is nature based with your religious festivities following the cycles of Mother Nature, you are also part of the Roman Empire.
On the Roman throne sits Constantine 1st, Christianity in the Empire is forbidden with adherents persecuted and killed. Constantine embraces Christianity and raises the popularity of Christianity within the Empire although he allows indigenous European Paganism to continue. In 313AD Constantine issues the Edict of Milan (aka Edict of Toleration), which effectively tolerates the Christian religion. Christians can now worship freely. As a Christian Emperor Constantine considers it his duty watch over the spiritual health of his subjects with the setting of doctrine the responsibility of the Bishops but it was the Emperor that enforced that doctrine, prohibiting deviation and upholding church unity. In short Constantine ensured that the newly adopted God was properly worshiped in his Empire. Those Bishops also decided that Jesus is the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Ghost all together in the one Godhead. This doctrine puts them at odds with the original philosophy for which they are expelled from the Synagogues for heinous sin of Blasphemy. Constantine dies in the year 337AD, the same year that he is baptised a Christian.
However all is not a bed of roses as many Europeans were forced to abandon their native pagan European beliefs and convert to Christianity or die. Many Europeans converted but many also died at the hands of Christianity for continuing their pagan beliefs.
Back in your village somewhere in Europe you are still practising your nature based religions when one day the Roman Army enters. The entire village must now convert to Christianity or die. Many die but many convert and live. The Christian Church and its infrastructure continue to grow and prosper. New religious festivals, new religious laws, new religious traditions are introduced and before you know it 2000 years of Christian indoctrination have passed. The old indigenous religious beliefs of your European forefathers, handed down through the centuries are not even a memory having been transcended by the Christian dogma you have now come to accept as the one and only true word. Your indoctrination is complete having been lullabyed into a belief that there can be no possible other nor are you mentally capable of deliberating on any other.
 | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 11:07:59 AM | Chingy, I would only disagree that the information was solely transmitted by word of mouth. There's evidence that the ancient Semitic people had writing, Curiform, Linear A & B, among others. You neglect some of the other Semitic religions such as, Zoroastrism just to name one.
Christmas, is just the replacement of the pagan Sun worship (winter Solstace), with the worship of the Son of God. In another thread was Jesus a Socialist, I bring up the Councl of Nicea, which most Orthodoxy was established.
I would also state that I am able of comprehending different religious views, that's why I brought up the Doaists. Some religions are more about Orthorpraxy then correct thought. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 11:11:18 AM | RE Msg: 30 by TwinkiMilton:
All knowing means god hasn't the freedom to make choices. If god knows everything, then god must be consistent in knowing everything. Makeing god a slave to the consistentcy of ever knowing. If it could choose, it already has full knowledge of all its choices which nullifies the choices to begin with. Only to time-bound beings. To a non-time-bound Being, those choices are part of its repertoire. It's rather the difference between saying you could make anything for dinner but hope that it pleases your guests, and knowing what your friends do and don't like and pick between those menus that all would like.
All powerful means there are no consequences to gods actions. If god were all powerful it could will itself to never to have existed at all, with no consequences. But if there are consequences to gods actions, wanted or not, then god is not all powerful. Only to a non-omniscient being, because a non-omniscient being thinks of power as a limited thing, and thinks in a very limited way. But to an omnipotent Being, all actions would have consequences, because consequences are simply consequent results of your actions. Being omnipotent means you can do anything. It doesn't mean you can just make things up to have impossible results.
But to be honest, most people don't really think of what it means to be omniscient or omnipotent. They just imagine what they would do if they were, in a very unimaginative way. You equally find that the same people expound endlessly what they would do if they were rich, even though pretty much everyone who has actually become rich, doesn't do that. They just pretend according to their desires, rather than truly imagine themselves in that situation in a realistic fashion. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 11:55:01 AM |
Only to time-bound beings. To a non-time-bound Being, those choices are part of its repertoire. It's rather the difference between saying you could make anything for dinner but hope that it pleases your guests, and knowing what your friends do and don't like and pick between those menus that all would like.
You are argueing in circles. To a non-time being there can be no choice. As choice requires time, a point in time where choice is made and time in pre-choice, time in post choice. To a non-time being there is no pre-choice time or post choice time, there is only existence.
Only to a non-omniscient being, because a non-omniscient being thinks of power as a limited thing, and thinks in a very limited way. But to an omnipotent Being, all actions would have consequences, because consequences are simply consequent results of your actions. Being omnipotent means you can do anything. It doesn't mean you can just make things up to have impossible results.
If god must exist to be omnipotent then existance itself is omnipotent, not god. But if god does not exist and is still omnipotent then god trumps existence itself. If being omnipotent means you can do anything then everything is possible. If being omnipotent means there are consequences, then the consequences trump gods power.
But to be honest, most people don't really think of what it means to be omniscient or omnipotent.
very true. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 1:39:02 PM | I see "God" as a metaphor for mankind in a fully enlightened state.
The concept of that metaphor was made during our early history so that the masses could understand. For example: In the bible in Genesis Adam and Eve are the representation of the dawn of mankind to literally take it as one man and one woman to me is ludicrous. Basically I feel that our history goes well beyond this solar system's time line.
The concept of 'God' has been used as a form of control by individuals and institutions since the dawn of civilization.
One thing I've always said is "Without people, there is no god" and to be quite frank, without people there is nothing, period. It's all a matter of perception. So to me God has existed and will exist as long as we have existed and remain in existence.
The way I perceive mankind in scope of the universe is that we technically don't even exist as we are beyond sub-atomic in scale. It's a paradox that our consciousness is so big yet we are so miniscule.
Just so you know, I wouldn't trade this existence for anything and I do cherish every moment. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 2:31:41 PM | RE Msg: 35 by TwinkiMilton:
Only to time-bound beings. To a non-time-bound Being, those choices are part of its repertoire. It's rather the difference between saying you could make anything for dinner but hope that it pleases your guests, and knowing what your friends do and don't like and pick between those menus that all would like. You are argueing in circles. To a non-time being there can be no choice. As choice requires time, a point in time where choice is made and time in pre-choice, time in post choice. To a non-time being there is no pre-choice time or post choice time, there is only existence.
"Choice", therefore, becomes a choice of how you wish the whole of reality in all of time to be re-written in line with your new choice of timeline. From that perspective, all of existence if re-written to fit in with the new choice, and all us humans aren't even aware that such a choice was made. Even the omniscient Being doesn't need to be aware of a previous choice, because such a Being is constantly aware of ALL possible choices, just that only one has been selected.
However, as an omniscient Being knows all possible choices, and all the time-lines that result from them, such a Being would only have to make a single choice as to how that Being wishes the time-line to be. Once made, all other "choices" that are time-bound to a particular moment in the time-line, are carried out to reflect that single choice. Those actions would appear to be "choices" to us humans. But really they would be actions to fulfil the original plan.
That plan could happen "before" time began. But it doesn't NEED to, because there is no concept of "before" to an omniscient Being, and because an omnipotent Being can change the past as easily as the future or the present, to change all of the existing time-line as one. So the choice can happen whenever the Being wants. When it happens, is irrelevant.
But, since an omnipotent Being can change anything in the time-line, it's power is limitless. So, it's power is infinity and is never exhausted. So it never loses anything by using such power. So the effort involved is nothing. So, the effort in letting something happen, and in making something happen, is the same. So even if such a Being chooses NOT to intervene in anything, it requires the same level of choice as making lots of interventionist actions. Thus, inaction and action is equal to such a Being. Thus, ALL is action by such a Being. The decision of whether to act or not to act, requires the same level of decision-making. Thus, ALL is the result of a single choice. Thus, one way or another, a choice has to be made by that Being.
If god must exist to be omnipotent then existance itself is omnipotent, not god. Existence is a quality. "I exist" requires an "I" to be described to say that the "I" "exists". Another statement might be "I have pink skin", the quality being applied to me being "having pink skin". However, either I have pink skin or I don't. I can say that the idea of having pink skin must exist in my mind for me to think of it. But I could still say that I have pink skin, even if I am the only person I have ever met who has pink skin.
Existence is a quality. It does not have any property of its own. It cannot be said to be omnipotent, for it has no power of its own. One might as well say that "You have skin, and you can lift 50 pounds", ergo your skin can lift 50 pounds, and you can lift nothing.
But if god does not exist and is still omnipotent then god trumps existence itself. Existence is a quality. It does not have any property of its own. It cannot be "trumped". It's not alive. Either the quality is true about you, or not.
If being omnipotent means you can do anything then everything is possible. Being omnipotent means you can "do" "anything". But we must first define what "do" is. To do, is to make any particular change happen to the current arrangement of bodies and energies present in the universe, to result in a different arrangement, slightly different or very different. All we can say, is that being omnipotent means that you can set up any particular arrangement of bodies and masses in the universe. You could even set up almost any set of scientific laws you want. But you cannot put a force of gravity and not a force of gravity acting in equal measure in equal ways, at the same time in the same place, because either the force is there or it's not. Omnipotence means you can do anything. It doesn't mean that you can just say that an omnipotent Being would be like Santa. It has to be a realistic omnipotent Being, and not just a contradictory one.
If being omnipotent means there are consequences, then the consequences trump gods power. As you pointed out, an omnipotent Being is not bound by time. It could change the past as equally as the future or the present. So, if there are consequences, those consequences are, to the point of view of the Being, one with the action, as there is no separation of time constraints as we humans think of them. The consequences are fundamental parts of the action to an omnipotent Being, and as such, all one can say is that the Being can choose to act with those consequences, both in the past and the future, or not.
That's apart from consequences being unable to "trump" anything.
But to be honest, most people don't really think of what it means to be omniscient or omnipotent. very true. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 3:45:14 PM | @scorpio
You are argueing against yourself.
Precisely. What we call "choice", is not choice at all. It's time-dependent choice. We think in terms of past, present and future. To an omniscient Being, all of those are really just a part of a 4th dimension, like up & down, left & right, forwards & backwards. Thus, an omnipotent and omniscient Being can change the past equally as changing the future, just as you can move your hand left as well as right.
Precisely. God has no choice. He cannot change the past because that requires him to percieve the past which you keep pointing out cannot be done unless god is time-bound.
But you keep argueing this like god has a library with everything past, present,future written down in books...and god somehow chooses to read one over the other...when god already knows everything and has no need for a library or both the ability and need to make such a choice.
Being omnipotent means you can "do" "anything". But we must first define what "do" is. To do, is to make any particular change happen to the current arrangement of bodies and energies present in the universe, to result in a different arrangement, slightly different or very different. All we can say, is that being omnipotent means that you can set up any particular arrangement of bodies and masses in the universe. You could even set up almost any set of scientific laws you want. But you cannot put a force of gravity and not a force of gravity acting in equal measure in equal ways, at the same time in the same place, because either the force is there or it's not. Omnipotence means you can do anything. It doesn't mean that you can just say that an omnipotent Being would be like Santa. It has to be a realistic omnipotent Being, and not just a contradictory one.
Now you are going in circles...god has to be a "realistic" omnipotent being!?
and this: "To do, is to make any particular change happen to the current arrangement of bodies and energies present in the universe, to result in a different arrangement, slightly different or very different"- is like saying gods power is to rearrange the shoes in his closet.
If god is truely omnipotent he is not bound to existance, realisam, bodies, energies, time, consequences, a plan, what have you. For god to be bound by ANYTHING means god is not omnipotent. Understand? | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 4:07:56 PM | RE Msg: 38 by TwinkiMilton:
@scorpio
You are argueing against yourself. I spent a lot of time with people who would try these sort of circular arguments. I've spent a lot of time working them out, and found that whenever you reduce them to purely logical statements, they display the contradiction in their words. English, however, is a very vague and ambiguous language, in which anyone with half a brain can make a contradiction seem true, which is why you can find so many raised, but mostly in English and very similar languages.
Precisely. What we call "choice", is not choice at all. It's time-dependent choice. We think in terms of past, present and future. To an omniscient Being, all of those are really just a part of a 4th dimension, like up & down, left & right, forwards & backwards. Thus, an omnipotent and omniscient Being can change the past equally as changing the future, just as you can move your hand left as well as right. Precisely. God has no choice. He cannot change the past because that requires him to percieve the past which you keep pointing out cannot be done unless god is time-bound.
But you keep argueing this like god has a library with everything past, present,future written down in books...and god somehow chooses to read one over the other...when god already knows everything and has no need for a library or both the ability and need to make such a choice. Not at all. G-d is omnipotent. From G-d's perspective, all knowledge is constantly present in what might be called G-d's mind. There is no need or use for a library for G-d. But humans only maintain a small amount of their knowledge in their conscious mind, and as such, need libraries to help them remember.
Being omnipotent means you can "do" "anything". But we must first define what "do" is. To do, is to make any particular change happen to the current arrangement of bodies and energies present in the universe, to result in a different arrangement, slightly different or very different. All we can say, is that being omnipotent means that you can set up any particular arrangement of bodies and masses in the universe. You could even set up almost any set of scientific laws you want. But you cannot put a force of gravity and not a force of gravity acting in equal measure in equal ways, at the same time in the same place, because either the force is there or it's not. Omnipotence means you can do anything. It doesn't mean that you can just say that an omnipotent Being would be like Santa. It has to be a realistic omnipotent Being, and not just a contradictory one. Now you are going in circles...god has to be a "realistic" omnipotent being!?
and this: "To do, is to make any particular change happen to the current arrangement of bodies and energies present in the universe, to result in a different arrangement, slightly different or very different"- is like saying gods power is to rearrange the shoes in his closet. Everything that is "done" in the universe, is equally of the same nature.
If god is truely omnipotent he is not bound to existance, realisam, bodies, energies, time, consequences, a plan, what have you. For god to be bound by ANYTHING means god is not omnipotent. Understand? G-d is not bound to YOUR limited understanding of G-d's ability. But YOU are. YOU cannot imagine anything beyond YOUR limits. YOU are limited to only being able to work with concepts that can be consistent. As much as you can say that G-d is without limits, all YOU can say, is that YOU are simply unable to even begin to conceive of what it is to think without limits. Without an ability to begin to understand that, all YOU can say, is that YOU can never ever ever ever claim that such a Being cannot exist, or has any contradiction in it whatsoever. The contradiction is of your own mind, for it is grounded in the claim that your LIMITED mind can fully understand a totally UNLIMITED Being, and find fault with it. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:00:03 PM |
You cannot just consider a concept and then make it self-contradictory.
If you do, then you aren't really imagining the concept you are claiming to conceive at all, but something entirely different.
A being that is omniscient cannot have free will....A being that is omnipotent cannot be bound by fate....Therefore a being that is omnipotent cannot be omniscient and vice versa....Your OWN arguments support this...Think it through completely this time. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:16:31 PM | I asked Magic 8-Ball some questions.
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~ssanty/cgi-bin/eightball.cgi
I thought the answers could help contribute to the topic.
I asked "Are the concepts of god expressing something".
It answered "You may rely on it".
I asked "Are the expressions, faithful to what they are trying to express".
It answered "Don't count on it".
I asked "Will I ever know what we were trying to express?".
It answered "Outlook not so good". | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 7:33:27 PM | RE Msg: 40 by TwinkiMilton:
A being that is omniscient cannot have free will.... Not time-bound human concepts of free will, no.
A being that is omnipotent cannot be bound by fate.... Not unlimited inhuman concepts of fate, no.
Therefore a being that is omnipotent cannot be omniscient and vice versa.... The two are not in contradiction.
Also, if G-d is omniscient, then ANY argument you dream up, G-d already thought of, and if there is ANY possible answer, even an answer that we humans will find only in a trillion years in the future, G-d has it right now. So, the ONLY way that you could be right that the existence of G-d could be contradictory, would be if it was 100% IMPOSSIBLE for there to be ANY other conclusion. But, if you had 100% proof of G-d's lack of existence, then you could walk into a mafia bookmakers, and bet him a million dollars that you can prove that G-d doesn't exist. He would break your legs if you were wrong. But if you really had such a proof, you couldn't be wrong. So why haven't you?
But, there is ANOTHER thing to consider. You wrote:
If god is truely omnipotent he is not bound to existance, realisam, bodies, energies, time, consequences, a plan, what have you. For god to be bound by ANYTHING means god is not omnipotent. Understand? You say that G-d is not bound by any concept of existence or realism, or bodies or energies or time or consequences or plans or ANYTHING. ANYTHING, right? Doesn't that include LOGIC AND REASON?
Then how can G-d be bound by LOGIC OR REASON?
But your arguments are ALL based on making a logical, reasoned conclusion.
Thus, NONE of your arguments can EVER apply to G-d.
Your OWN arguments support this...Think it through completely this time. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 8:56:53 PM | Human attributes god as being omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent
Where omniscient is haveing all knowledge, things that have happend, things that have yet to happen, things that will never happen.
Where omnipotent is haveing all power, over things that have happened, things that will happen, and things that will never happen.
Where omnipresent is ever present, in the past, in the present, in the future, in the never.
Therefore could an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent being both exist and not exist at the same time?
Yes - Then logicly the omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent being has never existed.
No - Then logicly the omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent being has never existed.
If none of my arguments can ever apply to god, then god does not exist | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:16:13 PM | RE Msg: 43 by TwinkiMilton:
Human attributes god as being omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent Humans ask if there is an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent Being. The answer to that question can be said to be attributive, much like one can attribute the quality of manliness to 50% of humans. But it is attributive (asked and answered), and not attributed (assumed). That does not mean that all have the correct answers. But the answers come from a place of reason, rather than assumption.
If none of my arguments can ever apply to god, then god does not exist If none of your arguments can ever apply to G-d, then you cannot state that G-d does not exist. You can only state that G-d might or might not exist. | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:28:14 PM |
If none of your arguments can ever apply to G-d, then you cannot state that G-d does not exist. You can only state that G-d might or might not exist.
As you have shown, god needs existence like he needs a starship.  | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 11:11:15 PM | First point
Why is god always given a capital G.
god does not have a white beard and white clothes because god does not exist
neither is there a heaven nor the gates of heaven
hell exists because we make it so.
if you follow the alleged story in the bible (a pack of lies) in the beginning god said let there be light
who did she say this to if there is only one god.
So presumably before there was light there was no light.
since we know that light is also mass (once it arrives) then there was no mass
therefore god is meant to be neither light nor mass.
What exactly could god be made from ?
How does god "hear" your prayers
how does she remember them
what is she doing during an earthquake, volcanic eruption, atomic bomb, war, genocide, plague, pestilence, murder, strangulation, knife attack, drive by shooting, bridge collapse, typhoon , hurricane, flood, tsunami etc
could it be she has lost interest and given up? | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/8/2009 11:45:15 PM | I don't believe that god exists
so if you ask-
has god always existed
I would have to say that a being that doesn't exist
could not have "always existed" | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/9/2009 8:16:01 AM | RE Msg: 45 by TwinkiMilton:
As you have shown, god needs existence like he needs a starship That's right. We're the ones who keep arguing about existence. G-d says "What difference does it make?" | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/9/2009 4:02:48 PM | Yikes...
Good luck with this thread people...
Grappling with concepts which are totally beyond comprehension is... well... pretty pointless if you ask me.
But by all means OP... You can ask ANY question you like... That is your Free Will. But I strongly advise you to take any answer you get, especially here, in a dating site of all places, with a HUGE mountain of salt!
Anyway, for what it's worth, I hope you find the answers you seek.
 | |
|
| Has God always existed?
Posted: 11/9/2009 4:27:44 PM | "Grappling with concepts which are totally beyond comprehension is"...
... speaking for yourself...
many people have Gods Spirit Teaching them simply because they sincerely ask..... God made the Universe, He can Teach us all about it ... blessings | |
|
|
| Page 2 of 13
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 |
|
Home
login 
