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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:12:58 PM | kaylee you're obviously a very caring friend and you're concerned about your friend's marriage and the effect it's having on your friend. It's hard to watch people we care about go through situations that are bad for them but I think our most important job as a friend is be there for the people we care about. Try not to take her inaction personally - she's obviously not ready to make a change, for whatever reason. I think if it were one of my friends I'd continue to remind her that she deserves respect and that I care for her no matter what. Tell her things that will help boost her confidence and esteem and let her know that you're there to listen (as long as you are able to handle that).
I hope for your friend's sake that she is able to gather enough strength to change her situation. She's lucky to have you as a friend. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:13:48 PM |
Sunnier wrote; "gently challenged" = Is this man the father of the 18 year old daughter? If so, can he not expect to know a time for his daughter being home? Sounds like there is an incomplete picture being painted here. Have they always had conflict in raising their children. I see a brick wall/jelly fish that maybe happening. .......If father cooks meals for TWO days, (why does it matter if he thinks he is a better cook than anyone else? Hell, he is in the kitchen cooking meals for two days.) Why did mom not eat at meal time?.....It may be abuse, but who can tell, you are obviously not looking at all sides.
You said it better than I did.
Was at a friends doing some work and the tv was on when I was there and a series I had never seen (think its a re-run) called King of Queens was on. Ever see the show? The couple were so in each others face. They were both so childish making snide comments.
Keep thinking of how some couples simply are intense. Ever watch The Sopranos? And if we are honest we might want to consider that some people simply love drama.
~Beth~ | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:18:32 PM | | I wouldn't be surprise if your friend's hubby is a victim of sexual abuse as a child by a mother or someone along that line. His behaviour didn't pop up from thin air. His over protective behaviour towards his child and treating wife badly is the produict of an unsavoury past. If thats the case he needs help as much as the wife/ your friend. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:22:41 PM |
as far as wanting to hear the mans side of the story zen...ok, I'm sure he has one too....but to do what he did with the food? and to make a remark like he did??? no...he's acted like a jerk...but he's her jerk so maybe you should not but in...look, supposed she did the self help thing...listened to a bunch of strangers on here and decided to leave him...then shes out in a crappy world with nobody, you've gone home to your guy, we've turned our computers off for the night...and she's sitting there alone wondering what to do next....he might be good in many other ways....only she can make that call....shhh, stay outta it!
I actually understand what you are saying here, Tony. One of the big problems that abuse victims face is that their abusers aren't JUST the abuse. There's OTHER stuff there that matters and that is important in the relationship, and if there weren't then it wouldn't be so difficult to LEAVE. And PART of that is just the companionship--the marriage--the BEING married--just having a MATE.
But, I've NEVER met a woman who left an abusive relationship who later regretted it, however wrenching it was to get out at the time. One of the really important things to remember is that when you are systematically abused over a long period (like you are if you live with an emotional abuser), you REALLY lose all sense of power, self-esteem, and even begin imagining that you either deserve what you are getting or you are wrong about what is happening. Finding freedom from that is the most liberating feeling in the world, and it more than compensates for the problem of being alone..."wondering what to do next."
Obviously, this woman, if she does leave her husband, needs to find a way to make a life for herself as a single woman. And that CAN be a problem, including financially. But whatever is happening or has happened with this particular woman, I think it's important to realize that when you are IN an abusive relationship, the effect on your psyche is MUCH more catastrophic than any individual incident is likely to be. It's no way to live: constant walking on eggshells ("what is going to set him off?"), FEAR, and ultimately, even self-loathing. You come to BELIEVE what he says about you. Nothing is worth that. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:40:08 PM | again i want to thank you for your posts giving advice about my friend and to me also.
some of you who posted regarding your own experiences, thank you. they are sincere, compassionate and educational, from the view of an abused person; i think those may be helpful.
kaylee | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:47:16 PM | kaylee, i like what the nomadic one has to say in msg. 5. in fact i would like to take that a step further and recommend you purchase and present that book to your friend as a gift. maybe one day she will pick it up when she is ready.
i commend you for caring for your friend and do please continue to be proactive with her. she most likely slips into denial with this guy and you can help her be in touch with reality. good work!
boo! to the folk who say to butt out. it takes courage to help a friend in a situation like this, good lord knows she needs it. in fact she needs lots and lots of help from all her family and friends and neighbors. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:53:47 PM | For her birthday, give her "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans. Other than that, there is not much you can do. This is her journey and her path of learning started long before you were her friend.
My sister is in an abusive relationship and most often doesn't acknowledge it. I was in an abusive relationship and didn't know it for many, many years. A friend gave me that book and it was jaw dropping. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:56:32 PM |
For her birthday, give her "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans. Other than that, there is not much you can do. This is her journey and her path of learning started long before you were her friend.
You know what? That's actually the book I meant--it's been a while, lol. Dang!
I'm so glad for your post, lil brooker. That book is sooo helpful AND extremely readable!
Engel's book is good too. Hell, give her BOTH of them!!
Edit: for below. I think we can assume that her daughter, at least, has an idea. And as another poster has suggested, she's possibly not getting very good modeling, here, when it comes to male-female relationships. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 9:56:43 PM |
sleeping beauty wrote:.......boo! to the folk who say to butt out. it takes courage to help a friend in a situation like this, good lord knows she needs it. in fact she needs lots and lots of help from all her family and friends and neighbors.
Now that would be interesting. Just what do her family members and neighbors think is going on between this couple? ~Beth~ | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:04:42 PM |
I'm one of those folks and I say but out, forever!
By butting out, do you mean not being there for her friend and trying to help her save herself? It doesn't sound like she's browbeating her friend.....or going over there and actively interfering.
I wonder, division77. If you had an adult daughter or sister, and her husband was abusing her and you knew this, would you "butt out"? Women with long and close friendships LOVE each other. Does someone who loves a person "butt out" when they see real harm that can be corrected? | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:06:19 PM | related to what family and friends think
no family in the area. they live in a neighborhood with 5 acre plots so between work and space between homes, they don't have much if any contact with neigbors. for her, i am it, or the closest to family and/or confidante.
her husband is iranian, he has distant relatives, i mean cousins in a range of 50 miles away.
they don' t socialize, the most is her visiting me very occasionally, or them visiting his cousins.
i know she does not share what is going on with co-workers. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:11:45 PM | He cooked dinner and HOURS LATER she shows up wanting to be fed? Where had she been while he was cooking? Waiting for service?
She skulks in wanting her dinner made and not finding it, demands to know where it went.
To the dogs, he says-- LOL (though I doubt this-- people don't feed their dogs two days worth of food in an evening.)
But give the man credit for leaving the kitchen cleaned at least!
Meanwhile the wife's best friend has been meddling in the man's marriage for 20 years, urging her to leave him, even going so far as to give her self help books! And then going even farther by posting about the man's marriage on an internet dating site-- all one sided, naturally.
Open the floodgates and let the name calling and stories of abuse begin. Though I still don't see how cooking dinner and cleaning the kitchen afterward is "controlling behavior". | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:19:06 PM |
My god......that would mean I'd have had a child when I was fourteen!
Talk about gettin' busy!
If by some chance, I did have a kid when I was fourteen and she was eighteen now, I'd probably be a nomad like you because I'd have lost out on my whole twenties raising my kid.
Nice deflection. Now exercise your imagination, think forward a bit, and give it some thought.
Or, don't. You won't be the first man to prefer that people wink at the problem of domestic abuse.
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:20:40 PM | landra2 wrote: He cooked dinner and HOURS LATER she shows up wanting to be fed? Where had she been while he was cooking? Waiting for service?
She skulks in wanting her dinner made and not finding it, demands to know where it went........To the dogs, he says-- LOL (though I doubt this-- people don't feed their dogs two days worth of food in an evening.) But give the man credit for leaving the kitchen cleaned at least!
Meanwhile the wife's best friend has been meddling in the man's marriage for 20 years, urging her to leave him, even going so far as to give her self help books! And then going even farther by posting about the man's marriage on an internet dating site-- all one sided, naturally..........Open the floodgates and let the name calling and stories of abuse begin. Though I still don't see how cooking dinner and cleaning the kitchen afterward is "controlling behavior".
Landra2 you catch things I miss. Wonder how many women complain because the man wont cook,or leaves the place a mess when he does cook.
~Beth~ | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:21:43 PM | I am apalled at the people who say "butt out". That is the reason why people who are being abused by their spouses get killed by them - because others won't get involved.
It is sometimes because of some of the comments people have made on here, that people stay in abusive relationships - because they are told even by outsiders they must have done something wrong.
Division77 - I really hope you never have a daughter, because based on what you have said here, if she was being abused by her spouse, you would do nothing about it, well at least until you had to pay for her funeral.
OP - I applaud you for trying to help your friend. It is good to know there are at least still a few people in the world that care enough about their friends to try to help them before they do end up dead.
In regards to giving the food to the dogs ... I have heard of this happening before, and if the person does then try to get their own food, they are prevented from doing that as well.
Anyone who closes their eyes and ears to abuse, are actually condoning it!!! | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:35:35 PM | smiles1966 wrote: I am apalled at the people who say "butt out". That is the reason why people who are being abused by their spouses get killed by them - because others won't get involved.
Considering the fact the OP has known this person 30 years it would appear that all her attempts to help hasn't help. So when does one butt out and simply allow the woman to live the life she has chosen? And how do we know that the woman in question hasn't worn out friendships and even family members with her complaining yet not accepting the help all have offered her?
We live in such a victim mentality society. My husband and I had a ground rule. We would reach out and offer to help. If someone accepted but returned to the abusive partner that was their choice. After the third time trying to help when asked we stopped helping.Its stressful enough helping someone who actually wants the help.
Allowing someone to look at you as an enabler, and thus put stress and chaos in your life, by whining, complaining and looking to you as the one who will rescue them, is a no win situation. They need to rescue themselves.
~Beth~ | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:37:14 PM | It's not going to be easy, but my suggestion is to leave him and heal herself, and do it soon. I don't say this as just an opinion.
I myself went through 19 years of similar treatment with my first ex. I don't know what was worse, the hateful, cutting insults, or the silent treatments that could last months at a time. During those silent periods, he would cheat, or attempt to and later justify it as thinking our relationship was over anyway so why not? There were many other forms of abusive treatment in our relationship, but I always found some excuse not to leave. I think fear held me there. I was afraid of change, afraid he was right that no one else would ever want me, afraid of having to support my kids and myself alone, and afraid of the threats he would make about what would happen if I ever did leave... and the list goes on. I got to the point where I felt I was on the verge of a breakdown, and I saw that I wasn't the only one suffering, my children were too. That's when I called my family for help. All those years they didn't know how bad it was for me. I was too ashamed to tell them how he treated me. They came and helped me pack up and get out of there, and they saw his true colors that day. Without their strength and support that day and afterward, I don't know if I could have made it out. For nearly 2 months afterward I was an emotional wreck, but slowly I came out of it and started to finally live life and enjoy my children as a parent should. He wasn't lying when he threatened to try and make my life a living hell if I left him... he tried, and has failed. Even after 7 years he still tries to use his old controlling tactics on me when it comes to the kids, but I am so much stronger now that it's almost laughable. I still wonder how I ever allowed him to beat me so far down that I could barely get back up. I don't know at what point in our relationship that I lost my sense of self, but luckily I regained it.
I wish your friend the best, my heart goes out to her. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:39:30 PM |
We live in such a victim mentality society. My husband and I had a ground rule. We would reach out and offer to help. If someone accepted but returned to the abusive partner that was their choice. After the third time trying to help when asked we stopped helping.Its stressful enough helping someone who actually wants the help.
And.... ?
Because you had that ground rule with your husband, everyone else should just be quitters too? | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:40:42 PM |
My answer had nothing to do with domestic abuse.
If it's a situation of the woman really in danger, of course I'd intervene.
I just tend to think that most of these domestic issues need to be solved by the couple.
Unless you're in the relationship you don't know what's really going down.
Well, I can understand why you say what you say, because like so many you are under the misconception that emotional abuse isn't domestic abuse, and that a woman suffering it isn't in "danger." Emotional abuse IS dangerous--very much so. It's extremely harmful to the person being abused. I don't think that if you witnessed a scene or two of domestic emotional abuse between a woman you cared about and the man abusing her that you would think, "eh, she's not being harmed." Indeed, one of the really disempowering things for women in these situations (and men too, of course, when it happens to them) is that so many people dismiss this sort of abuse as unimportant--typical marital "problems" that don't really matter and THEY shouldn't care about. But that's not how it is. Emotional abuse is REAL abuse with REAL consequences. It can result in extreme anguish, self-doubt, emotional dysfunction, depression, and even suicide. People CHANGE under these circumstances. I remember about two years after I left my husband, friends saying, "Wow, we're finally starting to get YOU back." THAT was both affirming and devastating.
AND it can escalate into physical violence...not that it should NEED to do that in order for it to be recognized as ABUSE.
If you had a daughter or a sister or a mother (for that matter) in an emotionally abusive relationship, I HOPE that you would show some kind of "give-a-damn" and try to help her see the forest for the trees, if for no reason other than so that you wouldn't find yourself, one day, talking to someone you love who seems like a stranger.
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:41:13 PM | Well I'll probably get the wrist slap too for being 'negative self righteous all knowing accusatory stance on almost everything', but this is simply a case of an abusive household where the wife is not going to leave and is not going to change anything but is going to always have someone like the OP to seek attention from. If the woman was not getting something from this relationship, she would not be in it. I'm going to assume she has access to help and is free to leave the house, so she has the knowledge and the means of getting out if she wanted to...she doesn't.
The reason to butt out is that you offered her friendship and support but what you've done is give her a means for attention. If she wanted out that would be different but she's stayed for 20 years, she does not want out. So don't feed into her part of the abusive relationship, tell her you've offered her help and you've received nothing but excuses, so you are no longer a part of this, then seriously, butt out. If she does want to get help you can be there for her but right now you are just part of the problem and helping her stay in the problem.
What I would like to know is, are their other children in the home, underage children? If so why have you not contacted human services and turned this couple in for having their children in an abusive home? | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:43:53 PM | Kayleegirl why did you leave out the important fact that he is from Iran? Knowing the middle east well and how most view marriage and the male female union this makes more sense. Is she American or Persian?
Don't get me wrong, I have a number of Iranian friends both male and female, and for the most part the women being highly educated, they seem to have chosen wisely when it comes to marriage. Have known two American women who married Persian men, and were unhappy. But some of us (including Persian women) told them before they married to look at the culture and how some families view western women. The women didn't want to educated themselves, married the men and then found out we had been right.
~Beth~ | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:45:41 PM |
Considering the fact the OP has known this person 30 it would appear that all her attempts to help hasn't help. So when does one butt out and simply allow the woman to live the life she has chosen? And how do we know that the woman in question hasn't worn out friendships and even family members with her complaining yet not accepting the help all have offered her?
And so now her dear friend is trying another approach. Why should that trouble you? When you love someone and see them in a destructive situation, you don't give up. If a friend of mine was hanging off the edge of a cliff.... and I couldn't pull her up with my hands, and then I couldn't do it with a rope, and then I couldn't do it with a tree branch....damn sure I'd try to get creative.....and MAYBE I'd even holler at the people down the path from us to come help me! | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:58:10 PM |
he pretty much insists on doing most of the cooking because he cooks ethnic and when she does cook he always lets her know it is not very good. He's probably right. Persian food is labor-intensive and very complicated. What a "mean horrible" husband for cooking all the meals! And cleaning the kitchen. Ogre!
no, she was not skulking, she was writing lesson plans, washing his and her clothing, cleaning the house. she keeps the house very clean. He was cooking and working in the yard. the work is distributed pretty evenly i think.
Ooooh that sounds horrible-- evenly distributed household chores!! He's so controlling and abusive!
he did feed it all to the dogs, they have 3 big dogs . I guess she should have shown up for dinner HOURS earlier. How rude is she!? He spent so much time making dinner and she ignored him for hours. I'd feed it to the dogs, too-- they were probably more appreciative.
and i have not been meddling in the man's marriage for 20 years, urging her to leave him, i have in fact many times suggested positive ways to change the dynamic, suggested couples counseling, etc. So meddling is a recent activity, when you couldn't get her run her marriage the way YOU thought she should?
my post was not about the mans marriage, but more about my friend and how he treats her. yes it sounds just awful-- a man cooks, cleans, does the yardwork and doesn't appreciate "gentle confrontation" - Bad bad man
you know landra, i never do like your posts, you take a negative self righteous all knowing accusatory stance on almost everything i have read of yours. i know i can't stop you from commenting, but i will say this is the last time i will respond to your posts. I'm flattered I had such an impact. Thanks for the compliment.
You're just mad because I have no sympathy for women who meddler or play the victim for 20 years. Your thread is nothing more than a troll-pity post. Butt out. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 11:01:31 PM | beth
i could have included all kinds of information but i tried to just stick with a sample of his behavior, the most recent one, in order to get an unbiased review of the situation.
having known her for 30 years, 10 before she married him, i do know alot about her and him. but, tonight what he did and telling her the dogs deserved the food more than her was so salient.
i know that being iranian would have caused people to immediately attack him from that perspective only. i did not want him attacked, i wanted only to give a description of today and hopefully have some thoughtful responses that could be of help to her.
this is my best friend. she is not perfect. i am not butting in to their marriage. he is not the worst guy on some fronts, but i know she is unhappy. i know her self esteem is being chipped away. and she seems immobilized. i was just looking for some perspective.
i will get the book suggested for her.
thanks again to all,
kaylee | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/7/2009 11:11:08 PM | It's really not surprising that "some" of the butt out responses are from "some" people who are incredibly caustic individuals themselves. They have more interest in putting on their tough guy veneers and often come across as individuals who would be emotional abusers themselves offline. In fact, you can peg what their responses will be before you ever start reading them. Expecting to get an unbiased, rational response is really asking too much.
It doesn't matter what ethnicity you are - abuse is abuse and ethnicity is no excuse.
vvvvv Being Finish or Iranian is no excuse. If so, let's excuse 9/11 because of how another culture acts on a regular basis. | |
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