Landra2 being Finnish sees things in a refreshing light in my view.

All I know is having been raised between California and France, I see things much different than many American women. Men aren't bad or the enemy, although listening to some women who have never had a good man in their life, one can understand why they dont attract good men.

And one can only comment on a post, based on the info provided. Notice that it wasn't until post #38 that Kayleegirl finally tells us a major fact. He is Iranian. Its not that he is from Persia, but the culture he comes from.

Then we read that they pretty much split all the home chores. That suggests to me he at least tries to be what most feminists have said men should be. Would still like to know if the wife is American and if so, how much did she know of his culture and expectations before they married?

~Beth~

gently challenged" = Is this man the father of the 18 year old daughter? If so, can he not expect to know a time for his daughter being home? Sounds like there is an incomplete picture being painted here. Have they always had conflict in raising their children. I see a brick wall/jelly fish that maybe happening.

If father cooks meals for TWO days, (why does it matter if he thinks he is a better cook than anyone else? Hell, he is in the kitchen cooking meals for two days.) Why did mom not eat at meal time?

It may be abuse, but who can tell, you are obviously not looking at all sides.

I'm flattered I had such an impact. Thanks for the compliment.
You're just mad because I have no sympathy for women who meddler or play the victim for 20 years. Your thread is nothing more than a troll-pity post. Butt out.

She would do things to set him off and then go into hard-done by mode. After 10 years, he eventually was sent off to jail for breaking 4 bones in her body after a beating,

...which no doubt she had coming to her by pushing his buttons...and then I bet she got all hard-done by. Probably because you did such a good job of not allowing her to play victim. Worked well, didn't it?

a bit nomadic wrote:Oh hell. I spent a goodly part of my adult life in Europe and my ex-husband was European and we spent our entire married lives together in...you guessed it....Europe. What the hell? My experience of European men and women is that they are very much like....men and women, just usually without the Puritanical bullshit. And I've met Finnish people before...and they aren't all caustic as hell. And SOME of them actually think that women are people too. Frankly, I would be hard pressed to find a Finn (or a Dane, or a Swede, or a German, or a Belgian, or a Swiss, or a person from France or England or Russia) of my acquaintance who wouldn't be dramatically opposed to the idea of sanctioning marital abuse. You see typicality where it doesn't exist, here, I'm afraid.

And...there is an ENORMOUS difference between splitting chores as some kind of expression of marital equality, and demanding to do the cooking because (you say) the other person is bad at it. It CAN be (and it sounds like it is) just one more way to express power and tell your partner she sucks.

....but go back and read it again.

forumphantom wrote: She should make a decision either way. Leave or stay, but just get done with it. 20 years of hearing this crap would make me re-think the friendship for sure.

he told her he gave it to the dogs, because they were more deserving than her.

he pretty much insists on doing most of the cooking because he cooks ethnic and when she does cook he always lets her know it is not very good.
He's probably right. Persian food is labor-intensive and very complicated. What a "mean horrible" husband for cooking all the meals! And cleaning the kitchen. Ogre!

no, she was not skulking, she was writing lesson plans, washing his and her clothing, cleaning the house. she keeps the house very clean. He was cooking and working in the yard. the work is distributed pretty evenly i think.
Ooooh that sounds horrible-- evenly distributed household chores!! He's so controlling and abusive

he did feed it all to the dogs, they have 3 big dogs .
I guess she should have shown up for dinner HOURS earlier. How rude is she!? He spent so much time making dinner and she ignored him for hours. I'd feed it to the dogs, too-- they were probably more appreciative.

my post was not about the mans marriage, but more about my friend and how he treats her.
yes it sounds just awful-- a man cooks, cleans, does the yardwork and doesn't appreciate "gentle confrontation" - Bad bad man

Please provide some ways of illuminating to her what is going on here. Maybe people who have experienced this can explain to her how degrading this is

I have suggested counseling, self help books, etc. but she seems immobilized and stuck in this dynamic. and years of talking about this with her to no avail.

Ever seen Sleeping with the Enemy?

So you lived in England for a decade. It's akin to the states in many way. Unlike France, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Finland, Danmark.

While all the Europeans I grew up with and see on a regular basis dislike abuse of any kind, most I surmise also have little patience for enablers and the men/women who refuse to accept the help offered over and over. Its a topic we have discussed at various women's shelters I have helped at. One reason why the burn out rate amongst workers at various women's shelters is so high is because of the stress of dealing with women who vacillate between wanting help and then return to their abuser. I'ts also one reason why shelters have an almost tough love stand, with strict house rules.

And what is the ENORMOUS difference between a man doing his share of the chores and instead of harping on his wife because she doesn't cook well, he cooks most meals? I am open to learning.

This behaviour that is passive/victim is just as damaging and poisonous as some azzhole who has control issues. In fact, what she has now learned is that she will continually attract those kind of men until she gets her own self re-vamped.
Apparently, both those types of personalities NEED each other to flourish.
In my mind, they are both equally bad and I say this with emotion because her kids were the ones that paid the price because of bad behaviour from both.

Chame...Blind as well as nasty??
I said it takes two. They both set off what the end result was.
They are both equally responsible.

Which brings up the question, why do women who see this, choose to marry the man anyway? Do they think he will change? Do women think that once married they will be able to change him? Even though family and friends tried to warn her before she married.

Many psychologist, psychiatrists, therapist say that men who are abusive after marriage, showed signed they were abusive or controlling before the marriage.

Which brings up the question, why do women who see this, choose to marry the man anyway? Do they think he will change? Do women think that once married they will be able to change him? Even though family and friends tried to warn her before she married.

I've not been in an abusive relationship personally, but I've seen a few emotional and physical ones first hand in my lifetime, even to the point of being threatened to be shot while helping a friend leave the situation with a dislocated shoulder. It took another incredible time of her going back to him before she finally left with her four boys and divorced him...but I was still there as a friend, assisting her and supporting her even after the threat. I think if she didn't have my ear and friendship, she'd likely have stayed even longer and be dead. As in the OP's case, she had no family here and wasn't "allowed" any other friends.