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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 1:57:18 AM |
Is this really how you feel? I think that is very callous, and I hope you aren’t still fostering. Yes, it would be great if adults could all be wonderfully strong. But even if we DO hold them accountable for their weaknesses, does this mean that THEY are as insidious as their abusers? Is there NO compassion available for them? Even if we wash our hands of them, can we not STILL feel SOME sort of sympathy?
Of course I feel sympathy, but I also know that she needed a wake-up call. Why?
Those 2 children.
While she was on orders to get counselling, get some training for a career, she was allowed to have overnights with them on weekends.
Well.....she decided to be single and go out. Within two weeks she had another gorilla practically living at her place. He was the epitome of red-neck abuser. These were the first words that I heard him utter when she brought me over to her new place and he didn't know that I was there. From the living room came "It's about time you got your azz home. You said you'd be about 15 mins. Your #@*brats don't #!* listen. I'm outta here." She had stopped off at my place and seemed unconcerned about the time. It was an hour later that we came to her place. Then I watched her old habits come into play.
Make me ill and I realized that if a person wants to change, they will. All she cared about was to get back into a familiar pattern.
Her kids are still considered "endangered" and she is now fighting custody with the father. What a mess.
Please...don't judge what I do when I am exposed to this kind of thing and have had to work with damaged kids. I have seen what "self"ish mothers and fathers do.
When you have walked in my shoes for a bit, then you can make judgments. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 1:58:43 AM | Please think about what you say, I am considering showing this thread to the person i am concerned about.
If you show these to her it could easily push her into stubbornness. No one likes to admit they've been wrong for twenty years and that everyone knew it, esp. a bunch of strangers whom your friend found.
I feel like I have said all I can say.
Maybe it's time to take that hint? The reasons she stays are stronger than your desire she leave.
My best friend of 30 years is in what I think is an abusive relationship (20years married). The abuse comes in the form of controlling behavior, cutting remarks, major silent treatments (for weeks at a time).
What you describe may be unpleasant and disgraceful, but it does not meet the legal definition of abuse. No DA would prosecute, they're full up with women with bruises and kids with no food. Neither wife nor daughter is being abused. As awful as it is to you, your friend and her daughter, it doesn't seem to be a crime.
but she could not tell him exactly what time she would be home, only that she would come home as soon as done with her date and not to exceed the standard curfew in place).
She is rebelling. All she need do is give ANY time and they'd work it out. She is turning against him, resisting (right or wrong, it's resistance). He would NEVER let her go because, to BOTH of them it's all about power.
she asked him what happened to the food and he told her he gave it to the dogs, because they were more deserving than her. And he had. Two days worth of food.
She knows about these scenes. It's been twenty years. Still not bad enough. Observe how he treats the dogs.
Please provide some ways of illuminating to her what is going on here. Maybe people who have experienced this can explain to her how degrading this is.
She knows. This doesn't sound like classic abuse. The situation and/or husband is satisfying enough so that she accepts the rest. No matter how weird it might be.
she seems immobilized and stuck in this dynamic. and years of talking about this with her to no avail.
That's the most likely it. But, iIt's possible that she's annoyed with you and wishes you'd be quiet. If it's been years, do you believe she's too dumb to remember? She might not hear you. She might talk to her husband about what you say and both have a good laugh (or she uses it to taunt him).
If I understand the situation correctly, I would, one last time, tell her, briefly what you think the situation is and tell her you'll help anyway you can, at any time, anywhere. Then stop and never bring up the subject again . . . well, maybe repeat your offer of help, quietly, about three times a year.
I probably sound harsher that I mean to. I believe the key to find the right distance between nagging and losing track. I have an alcoholic friend. He's heard my opinion, so I've dropped the subject except: I'm willing to help and if I find him driving drunk I'll turn him in.
I believe there's little else I can do.
She's not stupid, she heard you, understood you and has chosen not to accept your advice.
Somebody somewhere sometime has tried to your run. Maybe they were right. Did you enjoy it? | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 2:12:35 AM |
Please...don't judge what I do when I am exposed to this kind of thing and have had to work with damaged kids. I have seen what "self"ish mothers and fathers do.
When you have walked in my shoes for a bit, then you can make judgments.
I hear what you are saying and obviously the situation you are describing is hellish. But I would just say "likewise." You compared your foster daughter's situation to the woman's described by the OP, and yet we have no reason to believe that this is an incompetent mother with a history of behavior anything LIKE your foster daughter's. She (the OP's friend) is a middle-aged woman who has probably lived a completely respectable life, who has not behaved remotely like your foster daughter. It seems that she has an emotionally abusive husband. That sucks, and needs addressing, but it doesn't make her anything like as ****ed up as your foster daughter. So I suspect that an appropriate response to this situation might be very different than the one you feel necessary with her (your foster kid). | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 2:14:58 AM | Which brings up the question, why do women who see this, choose to marry the man anyway? Do they think he will change? Do women think that once married they will be able to change him? Even though family and friends tried to warn her before she married.
Id just like to comment to this... ^^^
And maybe if the OPs friend reads it... it may make her self reflect.
Let her decide for herself.. what not only he is... but also... what she is or isnt.
One of my Aunts. Her husband is an a$$hole.
We ALL used to pity her. See her as the victim.
Feel sorry for her and the kids blah blah blah. They're still married. 37 years.
Sounds good doesnt it?
Im not saying its the case of the OP... Ive given an opinion... but I will say this...
... my aunt... is only another version of him. She's just waaaaaaaay more subtle.
She's *just* as manipulative and cunning. She's vindictive, a thief (lost her job because of it) and a liar.
She's a nasty nasty woman... and butter wouldnt melt in her mouth.
She didnt marry an abuser... she married her peer.
So consider this OPs friend. Are you a victim? Is he an abuser? or are you his equal?
What he is ... is a reflection of what you are. Is that what you want to be?
Understand this OP...
... your friend stays because the dynamic is working for BOTH of them whether she realizes it or not.
Dont be her enabler... only be there when she's ready
You dont want to be a "victim"... of both of them either.
Stay out of it... till she's ready. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 2:40:50 AM | | I was just thinking, how would people feel if the legal system just placed the onus on the victim. Nope, your not guilty of rape because the woman pressed your buttons. Nope, your not guilty of abuse because the other person pressed your buttons. Why should it ever be ok for a a person to be abused and isolated by friends because they don't leave, does this make the abusers actions ok all of a sudden. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 3:12:40 AM |
was just thinking, how would people feel if the legal system just placed the onus on the victim. Nope, your not guilty of rape because the woman pressed your buttons. Nope, your not guilty of abuse because the other person pressed your buttons
The legal is system is based on Innocent until Proven Guilty, tangible proof, witnesses and someone who can talk the talk. A black eye, and people seeing him/her punch someone out is as good as anything.
But, more and more the sports fields are looking at "instigators". When they get caught, it's always "Wha' Me!?????.." Also, the police are taking a more pro-active line in domestic abuse. They take both parties in now and park them in jail for a cool-down. No more referee. It takes two. Makes them both think about it the next time.
As for rape. That is a whole different ball-game than this. Can't compare a serious criminal act to domestic abuse.
I taught my kids that there were consequences for their actions, so take heed in making choices and then accept responsibility for your choices. Only then can they own it. When they know that they own those choices, then they can make the necessary changes to get out of it. The blame game doesn't enter the picture and being a victim isn't being formed. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 3:20:16 AM | OP... While reading this thread, I wondered about your friend's history prior to being married... i.e. what kind of childhood she had, what type of marriage her parents had and what, if any, traumatic experiences she may have had?
It seems to me that she has likely "numbed out" if she has been enduring emotional/verbal abuse from her spouse for 20 years and it may even be, that she went into her marriage "numbed out". In other words, somewhere along the way, she stopped being responsive to her own feelings. Trauma can cause this and most people don't understand that the traumatized brain is incapable of processing feelings and information in the same way as a normal person's would. What one person may find "traumatic" is very different from what another person will find traumatic but if she has been traumatized, she may have post traumatic stress disorder.
The worst thing about PTSD is that people don't realize they have it. Their brains are "frozen" or "stuck" and they don't know it until they're diagnosed with it. This disorder can literally keep someone in an unhealthy relationship because they're either unable to feel their feelings or unable to mentally process them. Your saying that your friend seems "immobilized" leads me to question if she doesn't have PTSD. If she does have PTSD, there is help for it and I believe that there are some sites on the Net that actually have questionnaires to assist someone in determining if they are, in fact, suffering from this disorder.
I've wondered if she is financially dependent on her spouse but you say that she was preparing lesson plans so I assume she is a teacher? Is she actively teaching?
As someone else mentioned, there may be a whole lot going on behind the scenes that your friend has not mentioned to you. He may be threatening to hurt her or to perhaps deprive her of her daughter if she leaves him. It may be the case that she has decided not to tell anyone of his threats so that she doesn't scare them. I know many women who don't tell what is truly going on because they know it would frighten their friends and family.
You are obviously an awesome friend to this lady and for that, I applaud you. There are far too many people who help an abuser to isolate his victim even further by pulling away when they simply don't understand how such a situation can come about or the effect of trauma. These are the same people who will tell you that your friendship is enabling her or who prefer to believe that she is, in some way, causing his emotional abuse of her. PTSD IS immobilizing!
Hopefully, your constant support and love for her will inspire her to break away. In the interim, you may want to visit some of the PTSD sites for information to see if it relates to your friend and/or attend at your local women's shelter for guidance on how to assist your friend. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 3:24:55 AM |
Can't compare a serious criminal act to domestic abuse.
Not the same but equally serious...women are killed everyday in these kinda situations.
At one time the police didn't come for hours after a call if at all...things have changed because it is serious!
A black eye, and people seeing him/her punch someone out is as good as anything.
Most abuser don't show this side to anyone outside their home...so no witnesses. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 3:39:49 AM |
The legal is system is based on Innocent until Proven Guilty, tangible proof, witnesses and someone who can talk the talk. A black eye, and people seeing him/her punch someone out is as good as anything.
The problem with domestic abuse is that 95% of it takes place behind closed doors and there usually are no witnesses. Hearsay is inadmissable in criminal proceedings. Emotional/verbal abuse is not evidenced by bruises or lacerations. And lastly, "not guilty" in a court of law is NOT the same as "innocent". It simply means that the Crown has failed to prove its case.
Can't compare a serious criminal act to domestic abuse.
WTH??? Domestic abuse IS a serious criminal act. Check out the Criminal Code for things like "assault" and "uttering threats". What are you thinking???
But, more and more the sports fields are looking at "instigators". When they get caught, it's always "Wha' Me!?????.."
What does sports have to do with this thread???
Also, the police are taking a more pro-active line in domestic abuse. They take both parties in now and park them in jail for a cool-down. No more referee. It takes two. Makes them both think about it the next time.
There are some districts where the police have all but given up and there are others, where the police are STILL recommending that the victim return to her abuser. Recently, here in BC, our premier cut $440,000 out of the domestic violence programs until the various women's groups forced him to put it back. Arnold Schwarzenegger did the same thing in California. He has not put the funds back.
It doesn't "take two".... All it takes is one mentally ill person to cause domestic violence.
I don't know where on earth you are getting your information but I am inclined to think that like most people, you might be scared to accept that there are circumstances beyond a person's control in this world and that people who are traumatized REMAIN traumatized unless they get professional help for it. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 3:50:03 AM |
As for rape. That is a whole different ball-game than this. Can't compare a serious criminal act to domestic abuse.
I don't even know what to say about this. If you are a foster mom, and yet you minimize the importance or relevance of domestic abuse....omg. I'm just completely baffled. I can't even believe that a woman in 2009, with care for kids who have obviously been affected by domestic abuse, would type that. Abusing kids or women (or even men) in a domestic situation isn't criminal? I don't think that we should ever minimize the horror of rape, but I also don't think that most rape victims would wish for this kind of comparison to hold....as diminishing the significance of domestic abuse (which obviously affects both adults and children).
I was just thinking, how would people feel if the legal system just placed the onus on the victim. Nope, your not guilty of rape because the woman pressed your buttons. Nope, your not guilty of abuse because the other person pressed your buttons. Why should it ever be ok for a a person to be abused and isolated by friends because they don't leave, does this make the abusers actions ok all of a sudden.
Well you have put your finger on the thing for sure. As a man of few words you say a lot. I hope that people actually THINK about your post and don't just pass it over.
Well done. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 5:52:16 AM | What ever happened to treating people with respect? I suppose in this new world where I is so much more important that you, it is to be expected. What the OP described is only one side of a story but is there ever a good reason to be disrespectful towards someone you are supposed to love???????????? Even if she is pushing his buttons, he is still accountable for HIS behaviour...it is still on him. If he is so unhappy with her that she is "making him" do these things, what he is doing is still on HIM because he is CHOOSING that behaviour...to be abusive.
What the OP described is abusive behaviour.....as some have pointed out and I don't need to do it again.....he cooks because he tells her she can't cook (he could just as easily showed her how to cook "his" food and he could just as easily embraced her cuisine as an act of love.....that is not what he did. Feeding her dinner to the dogs because they appreciate it more......how is that anything but abuse to essentially tell the woman you "love" that the dog is more worthy of his food than she is?
None of us should ever turn a blind eye or walk away from abuse. Is it easy to be in the position the OP is? Hell no....I've been in that position also. Enabling behaviour is difficult to recognize for the enabler and it is good that some of you did point out to the OP that she is enabling her friend. There are ways to stop enabling...it is referred to as detaching with love. That doesn't mean walking away, what it does mean is being honest at all times with the person....point out the abuse. Do not console her, point out the abuse and ask her everytime why she is putting up with it....guide her to the reasons why she is and she will make the choice eventually. You can't tell her why she allows it/condones it/puts up with it but you can help her figure out why she does.....therein lies the answer for HER and all of us have different reasons why we put up with the things that we do. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:10:50 AM | The silent treatment for weeks?
Fed two days worth of freshly prepared food to the dogs because she (and the daughter apparently) wasn't deserving of it?
For that matter, people food generally isn't healthy for dogs...do they deserve to have their health and well-being compromised just so he "can show her"?
What if he decides to remove her as beneficiary from his life insurance policy because he deems she doesn't deserve it?
Only your friend can decide if she wants to live with of this kind of controlling behavior for the rest of her days. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:30:36 AM | a bit nomadic,
Now you are dramatizing.......
don't even know what to say about this. If you are a foster mom, and yet you minimize the importance or relevance of domestic abuse....omg. I'm just completely baffled. I can't even believe that a woman in 2009, with care for kids who have obviously been affected by domestic abuse, would type that. Abusing kids or women (or even men) in a domestic situation isn't criminal? I don't think that we should ever minimize the horror of rape, but I also don't think that most rape victims would wish for this kind of comparison to hold....as diminishing the significance of domestic abuse (which obviously affects both adults and children).
Someone here here just mentioned a few posts ago...what the OPs friend's husband really is doing is being a controlling jerk. He is not going to get arrested for that.
You compare this to rape??? And we were talking the legal system if you remember.
I think you had better sit down and collect your common sense from somewhere.
And...cut the personal stuff or I will have to report you. You are making judgements on me personally and not on topic. I was an excellent caregiver back then and still have have a very good rep. I don't do it anymore as I work full-time being an accountant/office manager.
Do you see me denigrating your career skills over this thread?
Edit:
It doesn't "take two".... All it takes is one mentally ill person to cause domestic violence.
As you pointed out the sports...I will point out that this man hasn't done any domestic violence...and yes, there are some instances where the person is mentally ill...but the bulk of it is like the OP's friend and her husband. Stay together for some reasons that "friends" never ever know or see.
I learned as a foster mom what some "passive" women can really be like.
One wanted to take a knife to me when she wasn't going to get her way. She was letting her man beat her and the kids up and so they were taken away from her. She wanted them back because HE wanted his kids back and told her to get them from me. She came banging on my door at midnight. I had the police at my place within minutes, Thank God.
After that episode I was careful about feeling sorry for some of these women.
In an idealistic world, every woman that is abused should be cossetted and believed..
In my realistic world, I know that isn't true. If anything, it's the kids who have NO POWER and are the real innocents that are the ones that need to be cossetted and believed. I have heard some horror stories from them about daddy AND mommy.
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:32:21 AM | Thank you PrimeW for bringing up an important issue. Feeding dogs two days worth of human food all at once is one of the fastest ways of ending up in emergency vet hospital with very sick pets. I don't know every detail of this couple's typical interactions, but if he thinks it's okay to poison the family pets just to get back at her, he is a very sick individual. And if you think I'm exaggerating about "poisoning" the dogs, check out pancreatitis in dogs, and onion/garlic/raisin toxicity. If people want to put up with abuse in their own homes that that's their problem to figure out. Abusing animals is just sick!!  | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:18:21 AM |
your friend stays because the dynamic is working for BOTH of them whether she realizes it or not.
Dont be her enabler... only be there when she's ready
I think when it comes to the "butt out" crowd, this is the ultimate message, even though it's not necessarily being conveyed that way in most of the posts.
I'll take for an example my own relationship with my ex. It was very much like alcoholism. While trapped inside of it, I didn't see a problem with it. Anybody who would have tried to tell me what she was doing would have been met with strong resistence. She was my wife. I loved her. An attack on her was an attack on us, thus an attack on me. Outside interference would have been far more detrimental than just leaving me alone.
Even when we broke up, I still felt a sense of loss. As another poster pointed out, it was a matter of the old addage regarding the devil you know. There was also the fact that I had a strong sense to not abandon my marital vows. But it was she who decided to leave me when she could no longer control me. Much like your friend OP, one of the key triggers revolved around our daughter. Once our daughter was born, I finally started standing my ground. When she did things that weren't what I considered "motherly" (such as smoking around our daughter, sleeping through the day while our daughter was awake and alone in her crib for hours on end, and so forth), I started voicing my opinions and suddenly I was assuming the role of authoritarian that she believed she held. It wasn't intentionally done to oppose her dominance over me in the past, it was just my paternal instincts kicking in. It was the preservation of my child rather than concern for myself that eventually caused her to leave... but in a round about way, those actions ultimately saved me, unbeknownst to me at the time. Kind of a win-win if you will.
And all the people who watched me suffer through it, even though I did not realize I was suffering the whole time, were there waiting for me. That OP I think is what you need to keep in mind. This is a situation of, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." Your friend needs to come to this realization on her own. Do what you can to help her realize it, but understand that it will be her decision alone, and prodding may only strengthen her resolve to tough it out. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 9:59:41 AM |
related to what family and friends think
no family in the area. they live in a neighborhood with 5 acre plots so between work and space between homes, they don't have much if any contact with neigbors. for her, i am it, or the closest to family and/or confidante.
her husband is iranian, he has distant relatives, i mean cousins in a range of 50 miles away.
they don' t socialize, the most is her visiting me very occasionally, or them visiting his cousins.
i know she does not share what is going on with co-workers.
Kaylee, this post was quite illuminating. Is your friend also Middle Eastern or is she Western? Was she raised to believe that the man is the lord and master in the family? Those are valid questions as far as how and why she has been tolerating his behavior. Since she doesn't have family and friends, aside from you, to help her, it may be more difficult to get her to finally come to grips with the situation and do something about it. Does she seem miserable in the relationship or is she fairly content? What may seem intolerable to us may not be so to others. All you can do is be there for her and provide her with information regarding escaping an abusive situation. It is her decision as to whether she wants to leave or not. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:01:01 AM | i would like to take silken fire's post about PTSD a step further......
the book "the verbally abusive relationship" most insightfully explains how an adult who was abused or neglected as a child can get caught in the cycle of abuse and not be consciously aware of it. and taking them in and out of PTSD.
zen beth, landra and anyone else who doesn't have much respect for the wife or is mystified by anyone who stays in an emotionally abusive relationship READ THE BOOK. i no longer judge these people and now have huge compassion for them and help whenever i can.
let's not think we know everything......we are in a constant state of growth and learning. | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:11:43 AM | | ok op we have one side of a coin.......... you only know what you saw........... what she tells you........... all may not be what it appears to be or may be just that and worse...... feeding the dogs is OTT this is just me as it appears food and feeding is a big issue for many, I'd feed anyone I was in a relationship with a single mum and fed half her school and parents picked them up from there....... it's only food people.......... ok sorry Op lost myself there, this woman has to know the marriage is wrong, forget the abuse bit for a sec.......... where is the love, honesty, trust, plain human caring for another person sod the marriage bit......... now the abuse guys get the silent treatment all the time, personally it's just daft, I'd rather go for a walk Together and come back when you have a solution........ it may be that that incident was the daughter was not so innocent after all and she was caught up to x.y.z and he wanted back up and did not get if from his partner, maybe that was a bone of contention......... but the Kid is 18 and was going out and had a sort of curfew so dad needs to chill back a bit.......... they both need to be sat down and see where it's all going, when the child is gone you have two strangers in a house like ghosts........ | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 10:45:57 AM | Now we have a form of abuse on here...it strats with words.
a bit nomadic,
Now you are dramatizing.......
And...cut the personal stuff or I will have to report you. You are making judgements on me personally and not on topic
I think you had better sit down and collect your common sense from somewhere.
Do you see me denigrating your career skills over this thread?
There is putdowns, threats, belittling...
Belle you have picked apart everything this lady has said...yet others share the same view...Why?
OP; The stuff I wrote in my post # 64 are right from a women shelter pamphlet...
As for the dogs...SPCA should be called! | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 11:03:33 AM | ok has many actually read the entire post from start to finish??? this was a post put up with the express purpose of it been show to this woman X I'd think the world was nuts reading all this....... a lot of people went OTT about abuse in general, abuse goes both ways, men abuse women Yes women abuse men yes physically and mentally too..... so lay off the male bashing threads gone binned for that............. this is an exact situation it's not a general thread, the plain point is the marriage is buggered........ there is zero love and respect.......... simple as. Put it plain I would not like to be treated like that and would not like to treat my other half (Don't have one  open to all reasonable offers) like that. But off topic what is it with people and food......... going crazy here about that it is only food people you just eat it............ the simple thing is this woman needs to take steps to leave this man, or have him removed from her life, no shooting leave just leave, for both their sakes, he may not be as bad as is made out but the marriage is just that bad, their is no happiness for either of them in the present situation......... am I the only one sitting back and seeing the larger picture, so Op tell your friend it's not working the love is gone and how do we move on from here I'm sure the kids hate this crap in their lives and as such will love and HATE their parents. Oh and one more thing what do you think dog food is made off.......... just a comment made by one poster has me stumped, I own 13 dogs........... | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 12:12:27 PM | Abusive men don't always show this side of themselves first when you're dating.... This behaviour usually reveals itself when things are more serious. Having said that, there was time for him to build that loving foundation in the relationship. It's difficult for someone to simply 'pick up and go' or all of a sudden challenge or become self-empowered. It simply doesn't work this way. Often times the victim will have a beaten soul thinking they are helpless and must continue accepting this behaviour.
The turning point of the current dynamic would be when your friend is able to recognize her needs and express them to her husband. When she begins feeling her self-worth she will begin to stand up for herself in ways she probably never thought was previously possible. It takes skill to navigate through a relationship dynamic like that - especially one that has possibly existed for 20 years plus..... She will need to learn assertiveness, personal needs, realistic self-worth, and self-empowerment. She will need to know how to communicate those newly acquired skills realizing, it's not his love she's rejecting, but rather his inappropriate behaviour towards her that she's addressing. She will also need to understand that she can still love him, yet preserve her own healthy emotional and mental state.
Somewhere along the line in the relationship, she grew to accept this behaviour and did want he wanted or expected of her. When she's ready, she'll have her own set of expectations for herself and her husband that she'll make known.
Talking about it with her is a good idea. But rather than trying to convince her of something or telling her to seek help, just keep asking her questions about how those behaviours make her feel and what behaviour would she want to see instead replacing it. Let her do A LOT of the thinking and analyzing her own behaviours and what she's willing to accept - how far this will go, and to what extent. Ask her if she's happy when he treats her as he does in those instances. Ask her what she would like to see happen or what she'd like to do if she had the chance/choice..... Eventually she'll see the choices available to her that she never realized were choices she had!
Glad to see she has someone like you in her life to help support her!
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 1:00:18 PM |
and...cut the personal stuff or I will have to report you. You are making judgements on me personally and not on topic. I was an excellent caregiver back then and still have have a very good rep. I don't do it anymore as I work full-time being an accountant/office manager.
Do you see me denigrating your career skills over this thread?
My apologies. You are right--I did get personal. But I don't see how I denigrated your career skills. Until reading your post (as quoted here) I didn't even know what your career is.
I think it's possible to understand a victim's role within an abusive relationship and EVEN a victim's cooperation with the abuser without BLAMING him or her for the abuse itself.
Not all culpability is equal.
And friends don't say "You brought it on yourself. Done listenin'. See ya." | |
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| seriously need some help on helping my friend of 30 years
Posted: 11/8/2009 1:25:44 PM | Post # 38 no family in the area. they live in a neighborhood with 5 acre plots so between work and space between homes, they don't have much if any contact with neighbors. for her, i am it, or the closest to family and/or confidante. ........ i know she does not share what is going on with co-workers.
Interesting that she is working outside the home and is making an income, yet doesn't seek out professional help, relies on a neighbor who has been a friend for thirty years, who being such a good friend hasn't been able to get her to do something different. Could it be that she doesn't share with any co worker or seek help because she likes the enabling another person is giving?
We who are commenting on this thread will never know the truth. We can only go by a snippet of information that may be missing some major parts. At least in a court of law both sides present their case, and have their testimony picked apart with documentation from the prosecutor or defense that helps prove a case.
What percentage people do any of you know, who are so honest that they admit their errors in a relationship? And how many pass the blame? What about you?
~Beth~ | |
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