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| | Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?Page 5 of 6 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) | yourstillhere said
funny~ the link to the thread that i posted was 20 pages of women agreeing with that same assessment and now several months later we have a thread with women whining about not being approached in those same places.
OK, I am going to risk gettting flamed well beyond the capacity of a 3 foot layer of asbestos to protect me... but here goes.
1. I think that there is some difference as to how women work at a concious and subconcious level. IOW, some women will say they hate being approached but when it happens they are not quite so averse unless the guy is a blundering idiot or physically repulsive to them.
2. There is also the difference of what you call something. Here is a little story about Theodore Roosevelt. He wanted a union representative on an arbitration board but the mine owners would not allow a union rep. So, TR got the bright idea of putting the union head in the "eminent sociologist" postition.
Although the operators' representatives feared class warfare, they refused to accept a labor man on the commission. Finally, Roosevelt recounted, they "happened to mention that they would not object at all to my exercising any latitude I chose in appointments under the headings they had given. I instantly said I should appoint my labor man as the 'eminent sociologist.'" Roosevelt never forgot "the mixture of relief and amusement" he felt, when he "thoroughly grasped the fact" that the operators "would rather have anarchy than Tweedledum," but "if I called it Tweedledee they would accept it with rapture." Roosevelt then appointed E. E. Clark, head of the railway conductors' union, as the "eminent sociologist," a term that Roosevelt doubted Clark "had ever previously heard." With the consent of the operators, Roosevelt also added a Catholic bishop to the commission.46
So, as others have said, if you approach someone and start a conversation with no agenda, then it isn't a 'pickup' is is 'conversation'. There is the possibility that it could lead to something or it might not. If you never talk with people, your options will be extremely limited. If you talk with people and do it correctly, everyone gets their day brightened a bit which, God knows, we need today. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/22/2009 6:36:53 PM |
So, as others have said, if you approach someone and start a conversation with no agenda, then it isn't a 'pickup' is is 'conversation'.
this was mentioned in the other thread and the women still insisted that they didnt want to be approached in certain places no matter the quality of the approach by the man nor whether she found him attractive or not. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/22/2009 6:48:35 PM | Well, since I wasn't a participant in the other thread and don't agree with it, I will say this: 20 pages does not constitute ALL women.
If you want to be that obtuse, go ahead. Have fun with it. Good luck ever getting a date.
BTW - you sound suspiciously like the OP. Is that just a coincidence? | |
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M_1
| | Joined: 11/16/2009
Msg: 104 | |
| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/22/2009 7:48:19 PM | | The way I look at it is this; if you want to meet someone the weather provides plenty of opportunity. There is something appropriate for inside and outside activities. There are all kinds of leagues, singles dances, and clubs I guess you have to have a creative mind as well. Even try your buddies who may know someone who would double date. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/22/2009 7:58:30 PM | | I have to say that I'm certainly not going to approach a woman any place where she's not obviously there to be approached. I assume that people are in stores to buy things, on buses and airplanes to get places and at work to get their job done. Which means it's pretty much down to clubs, bars and on-line. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/22/2009 8:11:23 PM | | body language plays a big part in approaching if I see a bad vibe I'm not approaching but if I'm getting good vibes from that person they're smiling, waving or even a wink, I'm going to approach.. Lots of places to meet women. The only place that I can't approach women is at work, strict dating policy up in my head for it. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/23/2009 12:25:18 AM |
womaninprogress: Yes, but only for men who can't read social cues and body language or who have rusty or non existent social skills.
You can approach most women anywhere if you know what you're doing. If you don't - they'll sense it, and you'll put them off.
Well, I'd sure hate to make online dating my only option. In my area most of the women on this site are single or divorced with kids. I don't have kids myself and don't really want a 'package deal'. So recently I've been getting offline and going out on Friday night or Saturday again. Saturday evening I was sitting and perusing books near the travel section. Two women were looking for a travel book on Brazil. I asked them if they had ever been to Brazil. It turns out one of them was from Manaus, which is a northern Brazilian city and a gateway to the Amazon rain forest. The conversation started out in English and then I started speaking Portuguese and we continued the conversation in that language. I told her I'd been to northeastern Brazil where I used to have a girlfriend. She kept asking me if I wanted to marry a Brazilian woman. I told her it really depends on the woman. We then agreed that a lot of women there are looking for guys with money and then after 5 years (or however long it takes to get a green card here) she splits. She was 36, a nursing student, and married.
Yeah, like womaninprogress said, it's really about being able to approach anybody anywhere and finding a reason to strike up a conversation. Earlier this year I was at Wal-Mart and struck up a conversation with a young woman looking at cards for Father's Day. It turns out she was a new college cheerleader.
Undiscoveredgent: I suspect that this is what is pushing online dating. Women determine the terms of men-women public interaction, and for some reason they are increasingly expanding the list of places where approaching them is a no-no. It has gotten to the point in the city where I am that outside of class, work, online and through friends there is very little chance of meeting women these days.
I think what you're talking about, OP, is the 'b*tch shield' women put up in places like nightclubs and bars where they expect men to approach them. If you were a hot-looking woman and over 20 guys approached you, wouldn't you do the same? Well, in situations like class, work, and through friends, women are usually have their 'b*tch shields' lowered in those places.
myrgth: I disagree. What is pushing on line dating is that as we get older our social circles shrink as does our time to get out there. Many work odd hours and some are just socially inept.
I agree. In college I met a lot of women on campus and dated some of them. Once I left college my social circle shrank considerably.
Every time you leave your house there is an opportunity to interact and socialize with the opposite sex. If you chose not to then that's your choice.
That is so true! Always put your best foot forward because you never know when you're going to run into a new person you find attractive.
I talk to people every time I'm out. Male, female, children. I get approached and asked out way more in real life than I do on line.
Yeah, it's about developing and using social skills.
Don't let others dictate where and when you should or shouldn't approach women. Approach them everywhere you encounter them. The ones that find it unacceptable just aren't interested in you. Don't take it personally, just continue on until you find someone that is. You don't have to be on the prowl to meet women. Just be friendly to all the people you encounter day to day. The more you do this the more attractive you become.
Well, even baseball players don't have a consistent batting average of over 50%. Sometimes you will strike out. Even Ross Jeffries (a seduction guru) has admitted even he strikes out once in a while. You have to go out with a good frame of mind because women do pick up on that. Being 'on the prowl' to meet women is a HORRIBLE idea. I agree with the Zen axiom: "When you seek it, you cannot find it." For me the best way is to use a Zen approach and not be so attached to the outcome. It's much better to apply that to social interactions than to samurai sword-fighting in feudal Japan where it was often a matter of life or death. You want to know a great to meet women? Go on Meetup (it's a dotcom), find activities you'd enjoy in your local area, and go to the meetings. Where I live Meetup has less than 10 interest groups and most of them I'm not interested in at all, but if you live in a more populated area you will have a lot more options. From what I heard from a PUA (pickup artist) guru, at such places women outnumber men and he even gave a tip that a guy should look his best (in other words, not dress like a slob) and put his best foot forward in those kinds of situations.
If you have the money, going on a Single Gentlemen's romance tour to a foreign city would be a good idea too. Don't go with the expectation of finding a girlfriend or wife. Don't be attached to the outcome! Still, you will meet a lot of women (interpreters are available), get their contact info, and date them. Then when you get back you can write to them. From my experience, a lot of women I've met in Latin America were looking for green cards, so you have to be careful. Then again, like the Brazilian woman was telling me at the bookstore a few days ago, you have to take risks when you're going for what you want. That applies to women just as it does to career decisions. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/23/2009 4:40:59 PM | el.metaleiro,
Where, exactly, is the line between "being on the prowl", on the one hand, and going to Meetup, or going on the "Single gentlemen's romance tour" on the other? Aren't those just less intensive forms of "being on the prowl"?
You note that if one lives in a more populated area one will have more options, and that is exactly right. There are guys who live in areas of the country where there are few opportunities to interact with the opposite sex. They can't afford to be so fatalistic, waiting for G*d or Fate to throw a woman in their path. "Seek, and ye shall find, ask, and ye shall receive", would seem to be better advice in some circumstances than "When you seek it, you cannot find it"
Whether we admit it or not, making the "approach" is mostly a man's dilemma. Yes, you can meet a lot of nice people and have lots of nice conversations approaching folks "with no agenda", but at some point a man has to shift gears and develop an agenda, and ask that "definite question" or nothing will ever happen.
Women, for the most part don't do the asking, and if a man doesn't, he can later ask himself whatever happened to that interesting woman that he had that agendaless conversation with. It may be that a woman can meet men without having an agenda, and without putting some affirmative effort into it, but I'd guess there are a lot of men (maybe most) who really have no choice but to make the effort.
Here's the question that has been danced around in this and numerous other threads: How does a guy make the transition from that non-threatening, agendaless conversation to making an actual connection with a woman? Does the connection "just happen" if neither party makes any effort? | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/23/2009 5:35:07 PM |
Whether we admit it or not, making the "approach" is mostly a man's dilemma. Yes, you can meet a lot of nice people and have lots of nice conversations approaching folks "with no agenda", but at some point a man has to shift gears and develop an agenda, and ask that "definite question" or nothing will ever happen.
And when you do, you will (ideally) with a woman who shows she's interested in you as well and it's clear she wants you to switch gears. From there if you're interested you go with it, if you're not - then it's your turn to wish them a nice day and move on. Unless of course, you're only approaching women you have interest in - then I guess you'll be the only one hearing it.
Women, for the most part don't do the asking, and if a man doesn't, he can later ask himself whatever happened to that interesting woman that he had that agendaless conversation with. It may be that a woman can meet men without having an agenda, and without putting some affirmative effort into it, but I'd guess there are a lot of men (maybe most) who really have no choice but to make the effort.
The deal is this - you expect nothing, and you enjoy the conversation. However you're also supposed to be good with reading body language from a woman who has interest in you and running with it should you notice it develop during the conversation.
Here's the question that has been danced around in this and numerous other threads: How does a guy make the transition from that non-threatening, agendaless conversation to making an actual connection with a woman? Does the connection "just happen" if neither party makes any effort?
Actually it sort of does. A woman you're not trying to pick up but decides she's into you should be pretty obvious. She'll lean into you, match your efforts in conversation, ask about you, smile a lot, even blush or look right in your eyes. Mostly, the conversation has charge to it that you may not be expecting but hopefully you'll notice should it occur. How do you get good at reading someone's interest while they are talking to you? Experience - trial and error.
Your answer is that if you're both equally genuinely interested, you'll both make the effort. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/24/2009 2:07:01 AM |
You want to know a great to meet women? Go on Meetup (it's a dotcom), find activities you'd enjoy in your local area, and go to the meetings. Where I live Meetup has less than 10 interest groups and most of them I'm not interested in at all, but if you live in a more populated area you will have a lot more options.
This.
I've been a member of Meetup for about two years now. Mostly karaoke and other activities groups. I've met TONS of people and made a LOT of friends. My social circle EXPLODED when I joined Meetup, and now whenever I go into one of these events I look like I own the place because I know everyone there.
A woman you're not trying to pick up but decides she's into you should be pretty obvious. She'll lean into you, match your efforts in conversation, ask about you, smile a lot, even blush or look right in your eyes. Mostly, the conversation has charge to it that you may not be expecting but hopefully you'll notice should it occur.
Also, this. I've gotten picked up at least twice from various Meetups... neither of which were singles meets. If you know what to look for, you WILL know when a woman is into you. Men think they make the first move, but they don't; they just pick up on the cues a woman is sending and run with it.
I highly recommend a book called "The Complete Book of Body Language" by Barbara and Allen Pease. Specifically, the chapter on Dating and Courtship Signals. Once you know what to look for, it's like a whole 'nother world. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/24/2009 4:00:01 AM |
I suspect that this is what is pushing online dating. Women determine the terms of men-women public interaction, and for some reason they are increasingly expanding the list of places where approaching them is a no-no. It has gotten to the point in the city where I am that outside of class, work, online and through friends there is very little chance of meeting women these days.
I don't know what state you live in or where you live, but Im not saying your thinking is flawed...far from it.
I can tell you even though everytime I walk out of the front door of my house, I do let a lot of opportunities to meet women just pass me by but then again I sometimes do seize the opportunities...in the bar, at the gas station, at the laundromat, etc...
I think what it is is not the internet dating itself but just the total amount of information that is out there period, including the scary "Crime TV" stories, about rapists hanging out in the parking lot of Walmart, Craigslist killer, Getting Stalked in the Supermarket.
Maybe your experience has been different than mine, but nowadays you definitely have to make the best impression you can, and then hope her mind hasn't been wrapped too much about what she sees on the news.
Follow what im saying? | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/24/2009 9:12:33 AM | @ HardwoodFloorBoard:
"Being on the prowl" reeks of desperation and one is in that state of mind when they're attached to the outcome (you know, getting a number and a date vs. going home alone without a number or a date). Go to something like a Meetup group because you enjoy it! At the same time, keep yourself open to meeting and chatting up new women. If you don't meet anybody, so what? You had a great time getting out and doing something you enjoy.
On the other hand, you could've stayed at home and met nobody.
Well, yeah, when you meet women who attract you, you do have to switch gears and bring her around to thinking of you in more romantic terms than just as a "friend". All the same, it wouldn't hurt to have female friends to hang out with as long as they help you look attractive to other women.
Well, yes, connections can and do happen when neither party makes an effort, but don't count on that happening. However, even that takes somewhat of an effort. You showed up! | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/24/2009 5:53:02 PM | | I don't know, I've never had a problem like that. I think maybe women are just being a bit more careful where they want to meet. Maybe also being more selective upfront. If you don't suit on paper and online, then you won't suit in real life. I have friends that never get online, both men and women, and they meet a lof of people at bars and other places. So I guess it depends on what type of person you are. I have friends that tell me they would never date online, and others are constantly on dating sites. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/25/2009 1:39:49 PM |
See, that's what I mean though, it's not about woman and geography... you are amenable to being approached in the US and I am amenable to being approached in Canada...from that, I would assume that women (at least us two, potentially even more of us) are not opposed to being approached in a friendly, conversational manner in Canada OR in the US. The OP is also from Canada, I guess it's just men in Canada that have this crazy idea???
No wonder I was out at a public/social event for 10 - 14 hours a day for 6 days and wasn't approached once. I thought it was just something about me - now I know the truth! Again, stop spreading this crazy idea....
I'm just reporting what I've noticed. You make it sound like I have the power to effect such a large scale social change! | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 11/25/2009 1:45:46 PM |
I don't know, I've never had a problem like that. I think maybe women are just being a bit more careful where they want to meet.
That may be part of it, but in any case it seems to me that the main explanation is that in female culture it is seen as tacky (or otherwise doesn't reflect well on oneself) to meet men in certain places. Again, this is probably not true in all or even most places. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 12/22/2009 1:27:33 PM | [please can you tell me in what circumstances you get approached.
quoting Heleno426:
-Sure. Just anyplace I happen to be out and about, probably once or twice a month on average, I'd say. "Average," because, sometimes it's a few times in a week, and sometimes not at all for a few months. ... just ordinary, everyday places."/]
WOW. damn it. i should just immigrate to the US, same place where you are. my god, Canada SUCKS. not only tehre are so few people ( the greater New York area alone has 20 million people, whereas ALL of Canada has somehtign like 35million) I HATE THIS DAMN PLACE. no one ever approaches anybody. grocery store, are you kidding me. even bars, like i said, people just stand with their group, and maybe at some point some drunk guy will waltz around to some girl, happens about once an hour.
god, why cant i just finish my damn, never ending medical degree/residency and get the hell out of this shit hole, bc my life is passing me by, and im wasting my life stuck on this site. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 12/22/2009 1:55:44 PM | I still see lots of guys approaching women here in NYC. Of course it doesn't really go past "Hey cutie" and so forth, but they still go for it nonetheless.
For me, I'd approach if she at least looked like she wanted to be approached and up for a conversation, otherwise I'd just keep moving. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 12/22/2009 3:25:15 PM |
Canada SUCKS. not only tehre are so few people ( the greater New York area alone has 20 million people, whereas ALL of Canada has somehtign like 35million) I HATE THIS DAMN PLACE. no one ever approaches anybody.
someone must be approaching someone otherwise how did there get to be 35 million of you canucks.
yas` didnt come from storks. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 12/22/2009 5:54:49 PM |
. no one ever approaches anybody. grocery store, are you kidding me. even bars, like i said, people just stand with their group, and maybe at some point some dr
Just a suggestion from a complete amateur here.. Do some introspection on your body language. From the pics in your profile, you are attractive. What might have happened is that you have built up an automatic defense system against those guys that you are not interested in but come on to you. How are you with eye contact? (Assuming that the same relative norms apply in Toronto as here ) If you see someone you are interested in, do you open up your posture or do you remain closed. ?
Another dumb question, if you see someone you are interested in, where is your left hand. Believe it or not, there are still some guys with scruples who will check for a wedding ring before making any serious contact.
I only been to Canada a couple of times. I've found the people relatively friendly and approachable (I was married at the time so it was strictly converstaional stuff). However, the folks from Niagara-on-the-lake are still ticked at us yanks for what happened during the war of 1812, not that I blame them. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 12/22/2009 6:23:27 PM |
Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
It's kind of inherent in the question.
I mean you identify that there are and are not specific places where women are at (offline). And you identify some are and are not acceptable.
Although there isn't anything in the OP regarding why you feel places are a no-no.
So it could be that the traditional acceptable places to approach women are simply changing. Nothing really saying they are shrinking. They could be expanding. Just the old ways are no longer acceptable. Maybe because originally they weren't intended to be "approaching" places, but got turned into them. Then people abused it and too many generally "undesirables" showed up.
Like some sort of weird dating gentrification.
IME most people have a difficult time meeting others not because of a lack of exposure to people, but because they want, expect, and whine about not getting, a guarantee that there is going to be some kind of success.
Like in High School when you ask a friend to ask the friend of the girl you like to see if anything has been said about you by the girl you like before asking her out.
Or when people have to ask before the 17th year "where is this going?"
Or when people ask questions of strangers "Are they interested in me?"
That's what happens when shopping malls are invented. Get all the stores into one place, get used to them, and then all of a sudden you expect every type of convenience to be centralized. "Well that's the way they did it, and it makes it easy for me, so that's the way everyone should do it...why isn't that common sense? Why are you people making my life so hard by not doing what I find easy and convenient for me?"
I suspect that this is what is pushing online dating.
What's pushing online dating is that it is easy to do, convenient, and there aren't really any perceived direct consequences to doing it. Especially when it's free. | |
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| Is the number of acceptable places to approach women offline shrinking?
Posted: 12/22/2009 6:39:30 PM | Hey, I'm on here too, white_roses28. Sure it's fun and all to get hit on here and there, but there are reasons my answer is usually "no"! And then when sometimes I'd maybe be interested, that'll be someone who just makes friendly conversation and clearly is not flirting.
I've met some pretty great guys lately, online and off, so I guess things are moving along the right track anyway. But I'm really not sure how much it helps to experience increased frequency of possibility. It doesn't mean those possibilities are any likelier to be desirable than less frequent possibilities. | |
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