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| | Men and self esteemPage 6 of 7 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7) | ok but how many movies and media do you see where a larger/keekier/nerdier guy gets a slim/ moviestar lookin girl?
and then think of how many movies have a larger woman who gets the hunk?
yea exactly!
AvERAGE women do have it tougher .... but i do see how men would have it hard as well. | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 4:35:20 PM | I believe Dove actually has a soap now for men lol-! Oh, they're working on OUR self-esteem too, believe me. Whatever sells soap.
You betcha we guys have it tough! According to Men's Health and numerous other media bombardments, we're expected to be steely sex-machines, skilled in the art of every conceivable technique to make our women orgasm at least 10 times per session, be breadwinners, be romantic and attentive to your feelings, be up or down for raising children...no wonder society's a mess--this is insane! | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 4:40:19 PM |
You forgot to mention the very obvious fact that the men on these shows are the STARS. The men are funny, the women are filler. The men are interesting, the women are incidental. Wishes, are you suggesting that women should get starring roles just for being women? lol.. no, not suggesting that in the least. What I'd like to see is the opposite to what's currently portrayed.. How about a handsome male star and a woman of a few extra pounds or, less then society dictated size zero.
A handsome and athletic Fred and a size 10 (or bigger) Wilma
A handsome and athletic Homer Simpson and a wide-azzed Marge
A handsome and athletic Family Guy and a Three-baby left over bump on Lois..
Whenever the woman is the 'star' and the man is just "filler" her spouse/partner is NEVER overweight or a bumbling idiot. At least I can't remember where that was the case.
There should be equal opportunity for the gals to be just as acceptable and un-athletic as the men and still be able to get and keep a hotty male..
Are the producers/creators of these sits. claiming that men would never accept any different then what they are now portraying to all the young girls and women of the world? Men can let themselves go and still keep a woman.. but women couldn't/shouldn't possibly let themselves go and still keep her man???  | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 5:06:04 PM | | A woman can let her man go and keep his money so call it even | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 5:43:45 PM | You know, for all the hand-wringing about how society/media is damaging to women's self-esteem, I don't see much evidence of it.
At least on these threads, way more women post about how fabulous they are than post about how terrible they are. Sure, many whine and pout or are hostile about OTHER people (specifically the men they want; the men they don't want are invisible at best and mocked at worst) not sharing that opinion, but that's not the same thing.
I also read lots of profiles. Oh, yeah, I don't think female self-esteem should be put on the endangered delusion, er, um, emotion list quite yet. There's plenty of it flying around here. | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 7:24:36 PM |
But what about the guys? Aren't there self esteem problems in men?
Maybe it's just my experience but I find most guys (doesn't seem to matter what age they are) have no problem strutting around naked like a proud peacock. If they do have any insecurites at all...it certainly doesn't show!
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 7:54:49 PM | Girls are destroyed by our society.
Why must any special attention paid to the female sex be met
at some point, such as this post, with a competitive mind set
from some guy who feels slighted? | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 8:10:49 PM |
Girls are destroyed by our society.
Girls are in our society are the most privileged demographic in the history of the species. Why do so many women try to convince them they have it so bad? That's nuts. | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 8:19:21 PM |
But what about the guys? Aren't there self esteem problems in men?
OP, there's an old saying I remember. It goes like this.
"A poor, handsome man is a handsome man while a rich, ugly man is a rich man."
Do men struggle with self-esteem issues? Sure they do. I just don't remember a corresponding saying, like the above one, where women are concerned. I guess another way to say it is that society seems to be more willing to overlook a man's physical flaws if he has other redeeming qualities, while being less willing to do so for a woman. | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 8:30:46 PM | Girls are in our society are the most privileged demographic in the history of the species.
How so? And please *exclude* hotties. I personally see that being an ugly woman is the worst role in US society. Ugly men don't have it so good, but if they are savvy they can be successful. VERY few ugly women are powerful, or even famous. It's ridiculous when Minny Driver is considered "the ugly one" in a movie. Then, if you're TOO good-looking, society is against you THEN, too. You're automatically stupid, and not funny, and if you succeed it's only because you're a btch--or slept your way to the top.
==============
I do think men suffer severe self-esteem issues, if they are so inclined, just like women. But for different reasons. Ask any guy who is BAD at sports, for instance. Or any guy who was super-skinny, or in ANY way weak--how'd THEY enjoy those high school years? I think men are much more culturally constrained than are women. Hell, most guys can't even wear PINK for fear of insults from other men. Men are more likely to ignore problems, mental and/or physical, and all that sublimating makes them sicker. The super-blustery guys, the ones who are always slapping other guys on the back, being all loud and pretending to be the life of the party, the ones who are always proclaiming how much they got, how great their lives are? They're the insecure ones; the ones who, late at night when they're all alone and everything's quiet and they're forced to listen to their thoughts--they're the ones who kill themselves, or cry in secret, or beat the crap out of the pillow, or sit screaming out in the car out of frustration.
I think men NEED therapy a lot more than do women, specifically because they are not "allowed" to REALLY talk it out with friends, to feel upset and frustrated and they most certainly won't allow themselves to cry when they feel these ways in public.
And, so, they lash out at women and tell THEM how "weak" THEY are for expressing their humanity, how irrational! | |
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452
| | Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 136 | |
| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 8:32:30 PM | But what about the guys? Aren't there self esteem problems in men?
Nowhere near the same or as much as women have.A man can be as ugly as a toad and 400 pounds and still get the woman of his dreams just by making more money.There is nothing that an ugly older woman can do(short of extensive plastic surgery) to entice the man of her dreams to be with her and stay with her. | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 8:39:13 PM | I disagree ray, unless of course, his dreams are lacking!
A woman can let her man go and keep his money so call it even
Please don't spew this drivel as if it were fact! This is not often the case these days, and for those for whom it is, it not unlikely that the money is what was thrown aroundas a means to attract that particular (type of) woman anyway. You reap what you sow!
Self esteem issues are specific to individuals, not genders. We all have them and the extent to which they impact your life as it relates to the opposite sex is on the person, not the sex organs. | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 9:05:57 PM | Well, I think if you're going to ask the question, you should think over what is it that boys need to hear to become secure, good decent men and post it here.
I have 3 boys and anything at all I can tell them to give them a sense of their importance to the world and how they will impact it as men is most welcome!
See, we women do have tons of images propelled at us from an early age and someone somewhere decided to talk about it.
Afterall, our Barbie came with lots of T & A and a dazzeling white smile permantly placed on her perfect little face.
I even had the Ken that came with a little resume from the best college in his little briefcase........I just crack myself up sometimes!!...:-)
PS I'm glad you're asking. | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 9:22:22 PM | I disagree, very few women with power and money (outside the movie/TV industry) are good looking. Some are butt ugly, as are many rich men. And outside movies/TV/Models, most rich men are married to average or less looking women, and to women many of them have been married to for years. You just don't see them plastered all over the media like you do with celebrities. Sure there are some trophy wives but mostly not, most rich men aren't looking for ways to lose their money, most are not homely Donald Trumps with hooker-type wives.
I don't think the media is the biggest threat to young girls, it's their peers who eat them alive. It's all those girls who use manipulation and pure meanness who make most average or less girls feel badly about themselves. What's sad is you can't seem to help them through it, they really believe that these young bytches are the norm and they can't measure up, then you get out of college and realize that these girls usually aren't all that, sometimes they are nothing at all but hot air and it's the average people who usually do well in life....always exclusions of course. | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 9:33:53 PM | How so? And please *exclude* hotties. I personally see that being an ugly woman is the worst role in US society.
How so? I can only speak for Canada, obviously, but I tend to assume human-rights legislation is comparable in the U.S., so here's my answer: in the legal sense, women have exactly the same rights as men. Plus, in the societal (but non-legislated) sense, women are encouraged and mentored SLIGHTLY more than their male counterparts.
But I gather that's not what you're talking about, because you said: "I personally see that being an ugly woman is the worst role in US society." I don't get that. Do you think an "ugly" man has a better role than an ugly woman? Have you read the threads on this site where "ugly" men are mocked in way that would have brought hellfire down if "ugly" women had been similarly mocked?
I'm not an ugly person, but I'm definately playing more on the plain end of the field (in the physical sense) than average, and I've been doing so all my life. But even at that, I'm 100 per cent aware that my physical "shortcomings" are MUCH less important to most men than about 100 male "shortcomings" are to most women.
The bottom line is I'm an older, ordinary woman who has way, WAY more choices in the romantic/sexual arena than an older, ordinary man.
The only difference, from what I gather, between me and other older, ordinary women is that I like it and appreciate it. Some talk about it like that reality is a BURDEN. What? | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 10:02:41 PM |
Nowhere near the same or as much as women have.A man can be as ugly as a toad and 400 pounds and still get the woman of his dreams just by making more money.There is nothing that an ugly older woman can do(short of extensive plastic surgery) to entice the man of her dreams to be with her and stay with her.
I can't tell if this is an outright troll or you are just incredibly ignorant, are you saying that male escorts don't exist or that women that are financially well off don't use that to retain a "man of her dreams to be with her and stay with her"?
As was stated before "female" self-esteem is hardly in short supply these days, women have made incredible strides and have achieved virtual parity with their male counterparts, but no, that isn't enough, like everything we do in America we have to take an idea and run with it to ridiculous, insipid lengths, well past any reasonable outcome.
It is still (and for some time to come) fashionable to hold on to the "Old Boy's He-Man Woman Haters Klub" holding women down and outright discriminating against them but it is becoming harder and harder to base these assumptions in reality.
Speaking of reality, boys are force-fed the dichotomies that were listed extensively in this thread at length.
"Be macho but be sensitive too"
"Be highly successful and driven at work but also be an attentive father and always available"
et cetera, and so forth.
So, we are going to carry on for some time in society, much like this forum, screeching about wrongs done to our specific gender and outlining specific steps the opposite gender must take that no one will listen to. | |
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452
| | Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 142 | |
| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 10:09:04 PM | are you saying that male escorts don't exist or that women that are financially well off don't use that to retain a "man of her dreams to be with her and stay with her"?
There are "some","very few" male escorts who service women and "some", "very few" men who are male gold diggers, but by far there are many many more female prostitutes and female gold diggers. Most women would never even consider paying for sex. Why would we? Most any woman out there can get sex any time we want. Even the ugly ones.
Men can make up for being fugly by making more money, women can't. That was my point. "Most" men wont chase a woman because of her money.
women have made incredible strides
Yes they have but women still don't make as much as men do even when doing the same jobs. Women are still passed over in favor of men for high paying jobs, and when a woman does get one of those jobs people still say she got there by sleeping her way to the top.
screeching about wrongs done to our specific gender
I am not screeching. Merely pointing out facts sir.  | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 10:21:44 PM | But what about the guys? Aren't there self esteem problems in men?
Nowhere near the same or as much as women have. A man can be as ugly as a toad and 400 pounds and still get the woman of his dreams just by making more money. There is nothing that an ugly older woman can do(short of extensive plastic surgery) to entice the man of her dreams to be with her and stay with her.
Not true. Lots of ugly older women are with the man of their dreams as I type this, but of course they're nice, fun, pleasant women as opposed to women spewing vile insults. This type of sexist rhetoric (against both men and women - what? - women will only go for an "ugly" guy if he's rich? - what a hateful thing to say about women) is mind-boggling to me.
Edit:
Yes they have but women still don't make as much as men do even when doing the same jobs.
Of course we do. "Big Lies" are fascinating, but still revolting. | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 10:29:53 PM | Women are pressured by society. To be a 'complete' woman she needs to have a happy man and a happy household. Her very 'womanhood' depends on this. She walks a deadly tightrope basing her worth on the phone call from a lover, or the glance of a stranger. Her ultimate goal is to make him happy, yes, but at the same time she needs validation. Her very 'womanhood' depends on it.
Society pressures men too. To be a 'successful man' he has to be good at SOMETHING. Be it sports, or work, or a bank account. His worth does not center around a relationship. A relationship is nice, but it is more of a distraction to his ultimate goal: to be SOMEBODY. But what his woman thinks of him is actually the opinion that counts the most.
If you give the job of your happiness to someone else, you are guaranteed to be miserable. It's been my experience that my worth comes from the fact that I am precious to God. And out of all the temporary pleasures in the world, there is no satisfaction in any of them. I know, I know, God is not for everybody. I know it. He knows it.
The lesson of self esteem is learned by accepting the body and face you've been given to travel through life with. If you can't accept yourself, you can't accept anyone else in their entirety. | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 10:39:03 PM |
I am not screeching. Merely pointing out facts sir.
What "facts"? You mean your sweeping generalizations or your case-specific anecdotes? Neither of which looks like "facts" to me...
"There are only a very few male escorts people, I know this from my extensive experience in nothing and only very few men would date a woman for her money because as we all know, men are vapid creatures only concerned with holding womyn down or mentally and physically raping away their rightfull godess-given rights to have everything."
"Oh and we are still oppressed too."
Ever watch the "Women" channels? The movies? I have seen a few and every male in it is either a precious child, a rapist, or a fat, old befuddled male who either doesn't listen to the woman's ovious need for help or is somehow complicit in her persecution. Any positive male role models are strictly sidelined as being too nice (and therefore ineffectual) or irrelevant. I mean women complain about unfair stereotyping in media designed for men? Does that mean I can harp on about the "Oxygen" channel and it's constant degradation of the makle gender? | |
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452
| | Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 146 | |
| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 10:48:31 PM | Quote me correctly at least fizics. I said that there are very few male escorts that service women. There are many male escorts out there but they are mainly for gay men, not for women.
<div class="quote">Ever watch the "Women" channels?
Rarely will I watch anything romantic or comedic.It's just not my taste. When I watch televisions or go to a movie it usually has to be action,sci fi or some horror.
<div class="quote">I have seen a few and every male in it is either a precious child, a rapist, or a fat, old befuddled male who either doesn't listen to the woman's ovious need for help or is somehow complicit in her persecution.
And you accuse me of generalizing!
<div class="quote">every male in it is either a precious child, a rapist, or a fat, old befuddled male . Really every single male!!!
Why are you watching the oxygen network anyway? It only adds fuel to your already explosive anger. | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 10:58:45 PM | How do you know this? How do you know there are "very few" male escorts that service women and that they are there to service "gay men"?
See, I actually watched these movies so I could have some basis for an argument that was at least based on facts and not, you know, completely pulled out of my ass. So it's not really causing me "explosive anger". I believe it was relative to what this thread was about....
But what about this?
"Nowhere near the same or as much as women have.A man can be as ugly as a toad and 400 pounds and still get the woman of his dreams just by making more money.There is nothing that an ugly older woman can do(short of extensive plastic surgery) to entice the man of her dreams to be with her and stay with her."
Is this one of your "facts"? | |
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Ependa
| | Joined: 7/16/2009
Msg: 148 | |
| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 11:05:07 PM | Yes, I think we do things to skew both boys' and girls' images of themselves. Boys are taught to hold in emotions, etc and even that women are objects and they're painted this sexy machismo version of what a man is ..so if they fall short in their eyes, it can certainly be damaging.
But Dove's campaign in no way is trying to deny that or even say one is worse than the other. They are focusing on something I think is incredibly important. Diversity is beautiful. And finding beauty from with in is the first step to having self esteem. And acceptance and realizing that beauty is not one set mold. We come in all different shapes, sizes, colors, etc. And there is beauty in all women I believe. For a long time the market and certain industries tried to whitewash the concept of beauty. And all the girls who weren't blonde,petite,busty, with tiny little noses, and flawless skin were not included in that narrow little definition. And children saw it from the time they were very young. So, they're just trying to show that there are many shades of beauty; tall,short,plump,skinny,athletic,freckles,dark skin, light skin,etc,etc,etc. Just my opinion and it's one of the few marketing campaigns I hope catches on and spills over into other things (like school literature, fashion,make-up,etc). But yes, boys/men have their own issues, too. | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/3/2010 11:30:49 PM | I asked what manorexia is and no one cared to deliver the goods....also to whoever mentioned BULEMIA...I dunno why...no one mentioned it...I asked if manorexia was like BIGOREXIA.
Afterall, our Barbie came with lots of T & A and a dazzeling white smile permantly placed on her perfect little face.
I even had the Ken that came with a little resume from the best college in his little briefcase........I just crack myself up sometimes!!...:-)
PS I'm glad you're asking.
And all the action figures, and G.I Joes, don't put forth a look that guys should have?
they extrapolated that if G.I Joes were life size they would have like 30 arms, and 60 inch chests, and veins, and 6-8packs...etc...I can guarantee you most of the articles/pictorials bout men's looks concern themselves with being tan, having abs, blah blah...so its not one sided...
I still have to point out the whole Breast Cancer vs Prostate Cancer thing I mentioned earlier in this thread. | |
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| Men and self esteem
Posted: 3/4/2010 12:12:08 AM | | Don't see too many men getting plastic surgery these days, do you? ;) In fact that's a very good example, womens cosmetics are what? the third largest money making industry in america, second to pharmacueticals which also are mostly catered to women, except for viagra, and I've yet to meet a man who takes that. | |
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