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| | Dad or Jail?Page 3 of 3 (1, 2, 3) | ismene2 - sorry for the confusion, I was responding to MSG 43 the lady from America's hat.
iBob | |
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Selima
| | Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 52 | |
| Dad or Jail?
Posted: 11/22/2009 3:46:00 AM | A 14-year-old boy was thrown into the county youth home overnight and handcuffed for about four hours after refusing to follow a judge's order to visit his father, as part of an ongoing custody case.
The boy, Jacob Mastrogiovanni of Warren, was ordered Thursday to spend three days in the youth home by family court Judge John Foster, who lifted the sentenced Friday following protests by his mother and a night of incarceration for her son.
The uncommon occurrence of a contempt of court sentence for a child in a child custody dispute angered his mother, Dawn Platevoet, and several of her relatives, including the boy's grandmother. They picketed in front of the county courthouse in downtown Mount Clemens on Thursday and Friday, garnering media attention.
"A judge shouldn't throw an all-A student in jail for refusing to visit his father," Platevoet said. "There are other ways to handle the situation, and apparently the judge agreed because he let him out."
Jacob was slated to remain in the Juvenile Justice Center until 7 p.m. Sunday but was released by Foster about 12:30 p.m. Friday. Foster had Jacob brought from the youth home in handcuffs about 8:30 a.m. Friday to appear in front of him in Macomb County Circuit Court later that morning. Jacob waited in a holding cell.
Moments after he was released Friday, Jacob said Foster didn't specify why he freed him.
"He said that I don't decide whether I see my dad or not," Jacob said. "It was kind of like a warning, this time, I guess."
Foster's secretary said the judge did not want to comment.
Jacob and Platevoet wouldn't delve into many details of why he won't visit his father, Victor Mastrogiovanni of Chesterfield Township. She said Jacob began resisting in July following an unspecified incident.
They said when Jacob has visited Mastrogiovanni recently that he is forced to stay in his room without any contact.
On Foster's order, the three have been attending weekly counseling sessions since early September. But they and the therapist have been unable to resolve the disagreement.
Platevoet and Mastrogiovanni never married and have had some disputes for years regarding custody and support issues, they said.
Mastrogiovanni, who has been married for two years and has a 15-month-old child, said he did not want to comment specifically about the dispute.
"I love my kid very much and want what's best for him," he said.
Platevoet said she would like her son to visit his dad but can't force him.
"What am I supposed to do? Grab him by the back of the head and put him in the car?" she said. "He's a teenager and wants to do teenager things."
She said Jacob "listens to me" about other things but not about the visits.
Platevoet's attorney, James Simasko, said he sympathizes with his client but didn't advise her to contact the media.
"The media is not the proper place for the parties to air their differences," he said.
Platevoet defended her public protest, saying she didn't want to air grievances but simply wanted her son released.
"The only reason I went to the media was to get him out of jail for what the judge did," she said. "He's my kid. I'm going to say something about it."
She said the county Friend of the Court also recommended the judge put him in jail.
"The Friend of the Court and judge are not looking out for the best interest of the child," Platevoet said. "They put him in jail with criminals."
FOC Director Lynn Davidson said she could not comment on the case. She said a child's wishes is one of 13 "best interests of the child" factors a judge considers in making custody decisions. Simasko said judges typically accept more input from a child as he or she grows older and matures.
Youth home Director Chuck Siedelman said his facility has handled minors for contempt of court in the past, but said he and his staff don't review the details.
"It's not our responsibility to know what took place; we hold them and house them," he said.
In the juvenile center off Dunham Road near Rose on the outskirts of Mount Clemens, Jacob was kept alone in a cell and slept on a mat, he said.
He had no complaints other than the handcuffs.
"They hurt," he said, showing lumps on his wrists from the metal tightened around them.
"The people were nice, but it's a bad place," he said.
His mother said Jacob, a ninth-grader at East Detroit High School, "is a good kid" who is on the honor roll and was voted "class leader" and scored No. 1 on a recent grade-wide exam. He plays baseball, wrestles and participates in other school activities.
His dad has coached him in baseball for several years.
Jacob said despite disliking his stay in the youth home, he vowed he will not comply with the visitation order.
"As terrible as a place as that is, I'd rather be there than" visit his father, he said.
"http://www.macombdaily.com/articles/2009/11/21/news/srv0000006883874.txt | |
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| Dad or Jail?
Posted: 11/22/2009 5:10:01 AM | When parents dont take control, this is what happens, the courts will take control. If parents cannot work together, even after the relationship between them disolves, for the best interest of thier children, the courts will step in and try to take control.
My son chose to live fulltime with his dad for about two years. During this period of time the agreement was Id have dinner with my son every Wed, and he would sleep over every other weekend. There were times he would forget about our dinner date on Wednesday nights and make other plans. I let it go once. The second time, I showed up at his school for lunch the next day and during lunch I told him I never make plans for a Wednesday because spending time with him was more important, and Id appreciate it if he did not make other plans either. He never did after that.
This family has big problems. Once my son saw the expression in my face, the saddness in my eyes about missing our dinner date, he 'got it'. For this young man to not care one whip about his fathers feelings says alot.
My son is back with me fulltime again. I am glad he got to experience living with his Dad there is no longer any mystery about what it would be like, or anymore of the grass being greener on another side.
All I know is if my son had ever chose to not see me, I would not have the court order enforced, if it was him telling me to my face he did not want to see me. If it were his Dad telling me, Id likely go to court to have the matter settled, but I would never advocate my son be sent to juvey for not wanting to see me. Doesnt the Dad, the one enforcing the court order have to ask the courts to enforce it for this sentence to happen?
The courts can only enforce what one or both parents are making them enforce. They dont just go through an old file one day and say 'lets see if Jacob has been seeing his Dad'...'No?, well of to jail for Jacob'....the Father must be insisting this court order be enforced. I would be disgusted in any adult who would rather see thier child in juvey because the child told him face to face, he did not want to see him. There are better ways of dealing with your child. The relationship must be pretty bad if the father and son cannot speak face to face and come up with thier own solutions. | |
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| Dad or Jail?
Posted: 11/22/2009 5:29:03 AM | We still just have bullet points and no real details to make a judgment on this particular case.
If my kids didn't want to visit me, why would I want their visitation enforced? They do enjoy staying with me so that's not an issue but I expect as they get older and their own personal lives develop that they'll ask to skip staying with me as much (I have them at least every other night and every other weekend plus I live in a small town 10 miles away from their hometown where all their friends live).
How uncontrollable is this boy... straight A's and a "leader" in school? He's moved to make these achievements at his age on his own without parental influence? I don't think that is even possible. There is something positive going on in his home life with his mother.
This case runs so much deeper than we'll ever know. | |
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| Dad or Jail?
Posted: 11/22/2009 8:14:21 AM | So the issue does go deeper than an unruly child disobeying the law.
They have been to couseling and are still unable to resolve the conflict? This means that either the counselor is ineffective, or the conflict is over something much larger than a video game. If they have been to couseling weekly then the father has seen his child, maybe not to the letter of the original court order, but he has still seen him. And the father still felt the need to have the court ordered visits enforced.
The more that comes out of this, the more it seems the child is being used for a purpose of getting back at a parent.
The fact that the child still does not want to visit his father(and his father's new family it seems) after being jailed and would still rather go back to jail than see his father means there is a big issue.
The fact that the judge does seem to have a bias about what a child is allowed to do regarding visits to the parent is also a sad statement of what some in the family court system may be like. If the child and his father had gotten along well, there would have been no need for the court to order the child to visit.
I also have to wonder if the father with his new family is trying to get out of support by using the visitation so he'll have more money for the new kid. Unfortunately that is really not uncommon in situations like this. It could also be that when the child goes to visit his father and his father's new family he is treated like a problem rather than a guest/family member. If the child was used to a certain level of attention from his father and that level has changed drastically w/ his father's household changes, it could be why the child no longer wants to visit. All this is purely speculation, but in the end the punishment put on the child far outweighed the child's "crime" of having issues and deciding not to visit his father. | |
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| Dad or Jail?
Posted: 11/22/2009 8:46:48 AM |
^^^^^^^^^^ And just how much better do you think it could have been handled in your country??????
I have NEVER heard of any child going to juvy for not wanting to visit a parent here in Canada so this tells me that it was handled differently. Besides I work with a woman whose child doesn't visit the dad and they went to court a few times over it and she is 13 now, and never spent a day in juvy because of it.
Now may I ask what lead you to the conclusion that this was the dad's fault?
Well he is suppose to be the 'ADULT' no? He is the one who enforced the visitiation knowing full well that the son is mad at him over an arguement they had.
If he had any brain on how to raise a child he'd of backed off and let the boy come to him rather then further damage the relationship by sending his kid off to juvy....good lord!!
the mother said she didn't have any control over the boy
The mother further elaborated on the comment 'she didn't have any control over the boy' by stating 'I can't drag him by the neck and make him visit the father' And she is absolutely right!!
Or was I the only one who got that?
The kid is a strait A student, involved in multiple programs. Any child who is out of control does not exhibit this valor. But I wouldn't be surprised if now his A's went to C's........
What kills me is that it's ok to throw a child into juvy for not wanting to visit a parent and normally when this happens it is because the child is upset and angry just needs some time or because they are being abused or mis-treated whatever the case may be but yet parents who refuse to visit with their children don't get hauled off to jail.
YEA there is something messed up with the laws!!!!
But when it comes to MONEY it's a whole other story.....go figure~
No more contact and no more money from pops
You can force a parent to pay and be responsible in that sense when it comes to children but you can't force a parent to be a parent, so why try forcing a child to see a parent they don't want to see? Is it because the father PAYS support for the child? So what does that mean the child OWES this parent a debt? Is that why the father involved the courts and is that what the judge was trying to get out there? LMAO
It is completely understandable for a parent that the child does not want to see the frustration involved, especially if they pay support gawd forbid......
But if it is about the MONEY then where is the principle is this?
The child would eventually come around but by the dad enforcing the visitation to the point the child gets thrown into juvy as though he is crimminal rather then being PATIENT and knowing he doesn't want to come because of the argument they had is not the way to do it. This only taught the child 'I really can hate a parent'
This just basically ruined the relationship and if I were the kid I would stick my ground as well until they change that stupid law. If it meant I had to keep going into juvy then so be it. I'd blame my father for ruining my life on that one aside from the relationship.
But that wouldn't last long because no judge wants to be scrutinized by the media over such a poor judgment.
And if it is about the MONEY then if I were the mom I'd be saying take your dang money and shove it up your azz where your moral ethics resides hope it was worth it~ | |
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| Dad or Jail?
Posted: 11/22/2009 11:40:47 AM | so......lets see if i got it.......you folks who think the judge was wrong.......should just have let the kid off....no consiquences for defying his authority.no wait........the kids parents should pay the consiquences...cause hes just a headstrong 14 yr old kid.....cant be his fault.....right?....family counseling?........are we sure that wasnt part of the deal?.....
like i said before...we dont have all the facts...........and with the media selectively reporting the news to put things in a way they like...........[prime examle,,sarah palins clothes.........but not 1 word about obama.......even though between him and his wife.....they got a lot more........yet not one word hit the media].
no...the basis of this thread is this........a kid was told to do something by a judge ..the kid refused....the kid got the exact same punishment that anyone else would have...........yet so many on here keep saying its wrong.....or excessive....
so what do you suggest?....well?.......we are talking about that single thing..the defying of the judges orders...........just let him get away with it?..........be honest...........it that really the message the kid needs? | |
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Selima
| | Joined: 3/28/2009
Msg: 58 | |
| Dad or Jail?
Posted: 11/22/2009 11:50:47 AM | the kid got the exact same punishment that anyone else would have.
...parents who refuse to visit with their children don't get hauled off to jail.
She's right. Non-custodial parents don't get sent to jail for not spending time with their children. How often do kids sit around waiting for a non-custodial parent to show up for a visit, only to wait in vain? The parent is not sent to jail for that neglect and disappointment. Excellent point, ooobaby. | |
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| Dad or Jail?
Posted: 11/22/2009 12:03:37 PM |
the kid got the exact same punishment that anyone else would have.
...parents who refuse to visit with their children don't get hauled off to jail.
She's right. Non-custodial parents don't get sent to jail for not spending time with their children. How often do kids sit around waiting for a non-custodial parent to show up for a visit, only to wait in vain? The parent is not sent to jail for that neglect and disappointment. Excellent point, ooobaby.
The pain and disappointment felt by children whose non-custodial parent chooses not to visit them and/or pick them up is more devastating than you could imagine and yet the non-custodial parent isn't reprimanded in the least for their neglectful behavior. My children could tell you well what that is like.
This kid is an adolescent and adolescents are prone to avoiding interaction with family. They are at a stage when they want to be grown up and make their own decisions even if their decisions are not the wisest of decisions to make. They often prefer to be with friends over family at this stage and will even sit at home alone waiting on their friends to pay attention to them instead of going out with their family to enjoy life. | |
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| Dad or Jail?
Posted: 11/22/2009 2:35:14 PM | The kid "missed" court ordered visits...he openly declared his refusal.
Don't do something the court tells you to do and things happen.You may not like what happens. Simple! Kid got something he deserved/earned.
Why/how did someone from the UK even pick up on this except......oh well......doesn't matter.
Just curious.....how sympathetic would all of the whiners be if the dad "missed" a few months of support money.....assuming that's in the orders?
She's right. Non-custodial parents don't get sent to jail for not spending time with their children. How often do kids sit around waiting for a non-custodial parent to show up for a visit, only to wait in vain? The parent is not sent to jail for that neglect and disappointment. Excellent point, ooobaby.
Not all the time I'm sure....... but aren't MOST non-custodial parents ..."non-custodial" ...because they weren't that involved to begin with or were a threat to the safety and health of the little darling?So is the kid really being treated any different than before? | |
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yna6
| | Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 61 | |
| Dad or Jail?
Posted: 11/22/2009 7:14:04 PM | Whoa...way wrong! Just because a parent is "non-custodial" doesn't mean they gave up their parental rights! Those are separate issues in Quebec. I don't have custody of my kids. I was/am involved in their lives. I was listed as the primary parent for both kids for a reason...because I was! Courts don't see things the same way! I certainly am not or ever was a threat to the kids...or anyone else for that matter.
In this case mentioned, quit blaming 'dad' for the kids behaviour. Probably "dad" was trying to instill some discipline and sense of responsibility into the kid, who resents it to no end! Mommy can't control him. He does as he wants when he wants. But not at dad's...so he doesn't want to go there!
I've run into the same problem with my kids. Then the ex and I got a great idea....and worked on it. The kids don't get the choice to visit or not...even the judge can't stop it. The PARENTS ( the ex and I) took responsibility for the kids and actually told the kids what they were going to do, when they were going to do it, and no back-talk about it!
It works.
Sure...the one kid resented it for awhile...too bad. It wasn't held against him while he was visiting...but there was no putting up with any disrespect, backtalk or such behaviour. Such actions brought consequences. Like computer time suspended for a week! Meaning at "moms" and "dads" respective homes.
She has her house rules, I have mine. Kids follow the rules where they are at that time.
Now, she had a habit of talking about me to her friends and family members within earshot of the kids. I mentioned it to her, cause I was getting some feedback form the kids...and not good stuff. "Mom says you...blah,blah, blah..." The kid gets told "What are YOU doing listing into your mothers PRIVATE conversations? You don't have that right, and she is going to know that you are spying on her!" Why get mad about what she says to someone else, even if the kids overhear? So, I inform her...she starts to make sure the kids are OUT of earshot while she is bad-mouthing me...things work out ok with the kids!
This case...military school the kid. Why juvenile detention? Some say it is "scary"...maybe it is. Maybe it is supposed to be that way so that the kid doesn't WANT to go back. (Much like jail used to be until it became a better lifestyle than what the working poor can afford for themselves.)
Just a taste of it by the judge, and maybe this kid will back down..knowing the adults won't put up with his crap any longer. Neither parent seems to be capable of controlling the kid. | |
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