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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?      Home login  
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 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 126
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?Page 6 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

I think they need to go and they're the worst thing to happen to working people in Ohio in years.


I think you should take out the word working, and insert union, in the above quote. That's what you really mean. I work in Ohio and Kasich hasn't affected me or anyone I know one bit.



I'm sure you will be voting no on Issue 2. I, and damn near everyone I know will be voting yes. Here's why:


Senate Bill 5 is not an attack on public employees or the middle class, the fiscally sustainable measures contained in the bill are an effort to protect Ohio jobs and maintain the quality of life for public and private sector workers. Myths and innuendo about SB5 can leave a voter baffled about what the bill actually intends to change and how the process will unfold.


The nonprofit Building a Better Ohio organization has embarked upon a fact sharing campaign to educate voters about the line items contained in the fiscally responsible bill.

Ohio Senate Bill 5 Myths and Facts

Myth: State Issue 2 is an attack on Ohio's middle class.

Fact: Nothing could be further from the truth. The sustainable and reasonable spending reforms decrease taxpayer cost to fund government employee benefits and pay. Currently public employee annual salaries and fringe benefit packages comprise 80 percent of local budgets. State Issue 2 offers a fiscally feasible and common sense approach to fulfilling our commitment to government workers without over-taxing the public.

Myth: State Issue 2 Means Job Cuts.

Fact: Ohio Senate Bill 5 will prevent not only more layoffs of government employees but enhance opportunities in the private sector. Gov. Kasich's efforts have already attracted new businesses and prevent existing companies from moving to southern state where operational costs are far less than in the Buckeye State. Ohio's tax burden both on a statewide and local level rank among the top third highest in the United States. The best economic minds can devise a perfect plan for recovery, but unless out-of-control spending is thwarted, the result will not foster long-term success

Myth: State Issue 2 will make striking illegal and destroy unions.

Fact: Current state laws already prevent government safety workers from striking. Senate Bill 5 would expand the existing rules to include all local and state employees. Strikes have been a rarity for the past two decades in Ohio. Federal employees have resolved disputes through negotiations since the Roosevelt era, as they are not permitted to strike.

Myth: State Issue 2 will reduce teacher salaries.

Fact: Fear mongering by union leaders have promoted this myth since the initial discussions pertaining to Senate Bill 5. The law will eliminate the fiscally irresponsible and intellectually baffling practice of awarding "step" raises based solely on years worked. The teacher evaluation process will prompt raises based upon performance. Schools across the state are clamoring for federal "Race to the Top" federal grant funds and will have to make the raise evaluation processes changes if awarded money from the taxpayer funded grant program created by President Barack Obama.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 127
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/29/2011 6:24:54 PM
ready 4...... The main issue State Unions have with issue 5 is that it would eliminate Union workers from collectively bargaing for wages, pension and safety matters. Something you did'nt mention and no myth at all.If I was a fireman or policeman I'd be pretty concerned about this.

This is just a ploy to eliminate state unions. If this succeeds then public sector unions will be next in Ohio. Since I am Union naturally this concerns me. Whether you are union or not this should concern anyone who works for a wage in Ohio.

On Aug 17th. Gov Kasich found out the issue 5 petition had enough signatures to be put on the Nov. ballot. Suddenly, he wanted to negotiate with all of the Unions he previously dissed when he rammed this legislation down their throats.

And, from what I see every state that elected a Tea Party Governor is having similar issues regarding this hostility to workers rights.

And, you're right I won't be voting for issue 2.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 128
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/29/2011 8:21:54 PM
Still, whats amazing is that the GOP can convince someone like Ready to vote against his own self interest and against his neighbors in favor of those who have made a habit out of screwing them over.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 129
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/29/2011 10:31:20 PM
Truthfully, I could care less about private unions, as I have the choice to vote for them with my wallet, which I do, as I always pass on union companies whenever possible. Seems those union cats always want to take a bigger chunk of money out of it every time.

My issue is with the unions that influence jobs whose salary is paid for by myself and other taxpayers, without any choice. Mainly government and fed unions. They need to be given raises on merit, not length of time on the job. I have worked for the government, and the lazy and the rule benders were the only people who benefitted from unions (no wonder democrats love unions so much!!), the rest of us who worked hard and did what we should never got anything from them but a paycheck reduction from dues. In fact, it's why I left that job, I got sick of watching people who constantly broke the rules get their jobs back and do nothings get moved up due to nothing other than the amount of time they were there. There were more incompetent people working there than in any job I've ever worked in my life. Maybe in other unions that isn't so, but in government it's rampant.

As far as collective bargaining goes, that's the main reason for this whole thing. Nobody in the government sector is working in unsafe conditions, except those who take high risk positions to begin with like police and firemen and how exactly do you make their jobs any safer or less safer--send the union stewards to the gunfight or the blazing building ahead of time? "Nope, there's bullets flying down here, Bobbo, keep our boys far away..........." Bullsh*t. They know what they are getting into before they get into it, or they are complete and utter fools. It's all about wages and pensions, and since they are taxpayer funded we need them under control. Last time I checked there were plenty of folks lining up to do those unsafe jobs, and I doubt the lack of collective bargaining will thin out the line too much. I'd even be willing to bet, if it came down to it, lack of a union wouldn't thin the horde all that much, either.



I live about an eighth of a mile from Moraine Ohio, a town built because of GM. All the factories here are closed. Big lot of good those unions did for them. Unemployment around this area is rumored to be hovering around 15%. Maybe if the unions hadn't gotten their workers ridiculous benefits and wages all those years, those plants could have stayed open. The first $16,000.00 of every new car GM sells goes to pay the pensions of those who no longer produce anything for the company, plus they get medicare and social security. No wonder buying a car puts you in hock until it's a rustbucket that doesn't run anymore. But keep on voting pro-union and pretty soon we'll have even fewer jobs left than we do now as those unions drive more and more of those companies out of business. Or overseas.

Moraine Ohio citizens are my neighbors Blade, and I'll bet you every damn one of them (or at least the majority of less hard headed ones), if given the choice of still having a job or having a union, would pick the job. Do you know how sad it is to see a 55 year old x-GM jobsetter working as a fry cook, or have you ever had to tell a guy who 2 years ago made 25.00 an hour at GM that you have to let him go because he doesn't have the right skills to be a clerk at a convienience store for 8.00 an hour? I've had the displeasure of seeing one and doing the other lately and both times it made me physically ill.
 frankster_p
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 130
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/30/2011 12:35:26 AM
Shouldnt have given the japs free acces to your markrts while they protected theirs.
Manipulated their currency so their cars were cheaper.
As much as im a GM fan, they mismanaged the company and the Government didnt help before. Where were the tarrifs on the Jap Crap?
Well least the Yank makers are recovering now.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 131
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/30/2011 2:01:24 AM
Manipulated their currency so their cars were cheaper.


Or maybe their cars were cheaper because they weren't paying guys 30 bucks an hours to stand on an assembly line? Paying 17.50 an hour to a girl who sewed the covers for the seats? Paying 22.50 an hour for the guy who drove the car from the assembly line to the lot it was stored in? Paying hundreds of millions a years to people who no longer worked for them because a union negotiated ridiculous pensions for them?
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 132
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/30/2011 2:53:06 AM
Ready, nevermind the pay the ceo's of these companies draw down. That has nothing to do with company profitability. And, If Gov. Kasich was indeed the leader he claims he'd have cut his own pay before slicing the pay of State workers. Oh, workers in his cabinet because he wanted to draw the "best and brightest" to his administration.

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience while working a union job though. From what I understand the State unions were willing to concede on the wage issues mentioned. It's a moot point though as the right to bargain was removed by passing issue 5. If you give up your rights to negotiate you're just stepping back and one step closer to begging.

Ready.... Incidentally The Toledo Jeep plant here is actually adding 1100 jobs. Yes, the Union made concessions but it's still there . How could this happen...Answer....NEGOTIATION.....
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 133
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/30/2011 4:20:14 AM
1100 new jobs? Great news....well except.............

http://www.manufacturingnews.com/news/10/0112/GM.html



The economic impact caused by a single, large manufacturing plant closing in America is massive, according to research conducted by the Institute for Research on Labor, Employment and the Economy (IRLEE) at the University of Michigan.

In a case study on the closure of the General Motors Moraine Assembly Plant in Montgomery County, Ohio, IRLEE director Marian Krzyzowski and associate director Lawrence Molnar found that for every hourly job lost 15 jobs in the economy disappeared with it.

GM closed its 4.1 million-square-foot Moraine Assembly operation in late 2008, laying off 2,170 hourly workers. The event led to the loss of another 10,850 indirect jobs (for a total of 13,020 jobs lost) in the immediate vicinity of the plant.

But job losses cascaded through GM's supply chain, with the elimination of another 3,334 jobs: DMAX laid off 645 workers; Jamestown Industries laid off 80 workers; Johnson Controls laid off 130 workers; PMG Ohio laid off 70 workers; Plastech laid off 88 workers; four Delphi plants that supplied Moraine laid off 2,120 workers; Tenneco laid off 118 workers; and EFTEC laid off 83 workers.

As a result, the total number of indirect jobs lost due to the Moraine plant shutdown was 27,520.

In all 33,024 workers were impacted by closing one large factory.


And that's one plant. Maybe those CEOs large salary caused it all, but I do know Steve Martin, the CEO of the Delphi plants took almost a 99% pay cut. Something tells me it was more than that, though.
 frankster_p
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 134
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/30/2011 7:06:20 AM
Or maybe the Japs didnt have to design anything... simply copy, like they have always done.
Funny how they have moved a lot of their production away from Japan into places like Thailand, where car makers pay no tax.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 135
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/30/2011 7:52:29 AM
There are Honda Toyota & Hyundai plants right here in the USA. There is a both a Honda plant and a Toyota plant within a hundred mile radius of where I am. And they build cars that you can buy without taking out a mortgage on your house, or being in debt for the next 6 years of your life. But here's a capper, they are non-union. And here's a cap for the cap: they don't wanna be!!!!!!

http://blogs.automotive.com/uaw-and-why-honda-and-toyota-workers-are-not-interested-1478.html



To the Japanese automobile manufacturers, unions are the plague. And the United Auto Workers (UAW) admit to having a tough time getting new union members when they visit Japanese manufacturers’ plants (called ‘transplants’) in the U.S. “People just aren’t interested,” said one union organizer.The Japanese auto makers in the U.S. seem to be winning their battle with the UAW because the people they employ seem convinced that the benefits are good and that the union couldn’t do any better. Moreover, these auto makers tend to build plants in the U.S. in areas that have a low average wage for laborers.

Worse, conditions are better in transplants in some areas. An example of a happy plant of workers is in the Toyota plant in Georgetown, Kentucky. The workers are now being paid more and getting better bonuses than UAW workers average at domestic plants.

Yet the UAW continues to try. It attempted to organize the workers at the Subaru plant in Lafayette at least three times. The result? Nada, nothing. The plant will be producing Camrys (pictured) in a joint venture with Toyota in April.

Our take? The strength of the UAW has ebbed substantially. In 1979 the union had a membership of 1.5 million. By 2005 it had plunged to 600,000. Unless the transplants do something real stupid like slashing wages in half or eliminating medical benefits, we see union membership continue to dwindle.


Wow, the cars are made well, less expensive, the employees are happy.....whats the upside to unions again? Oh yeah, they can't bargain. Guess what? Neither can the 37,000+ people who lost their jobs due to GM closing up shop. Same thing is going to happen to the government employees when the state and local governments run out of money.
 frankster_p
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 136
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/30/2011 8:02:50 AM
But they arent yours are they? and where do the profits go?
Back to Japan.
So much for patriotism, or is that only for bs wars?

Jap and Korean cars might be cheap, but they have no soul or style, whitegoods on wheels.

Wait till the Yank love affair with the Japs and Koreans runs out, they will up sticks fast. then we will see.
If you are smart you will keep the Chinese out.
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 137
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/30/2011 8:03:17 AM

Funny how they have moved a lot of their production away from Japan into places like Thailand, where car makers pay no tax.


So your saying that by lowering taxes you can encourage business to set up shop in your neck of the woods.
 frankster_p
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 138
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/30/2011 8:33:45 AM
No im saying its not and hasnt been a level playing field for along time.
The Japs have had every advantage.
American makers bring in cars from their OS divisions in Aus and Germany, People sprout the Not invented here bs and not enough blue steel.
Whilst happily buying Toyleta's and Honda.
Sad.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 139
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 9/30/2011 8:49:31 AM

But they arent yours are they? and where do the profits go?
Back to Japan.
So much for patriotism, or is that only for bs wars?


Patriotism don't pay the bills, and when you spend 30,000.00 on a car that is only gonna last 5 years, you can't pay the bills.

I'd love to buy an American made car, but the only ones my frugality will allow me to buy have less soul than those Jap crapmobiles. SO since the Jap crapmobiles are made better, sorry, I gotta go with quality over patriotism. I promise however to buy all the aftermarket goodies right here in the USA. And the gas too!


Jap and Korean cars might be cheap, but they have no soul or style, whitegoods on wheels.


They got plenty of soul when my James Brown CDs are blasting out of the speakers. He's American made!!!!



Wait till the Yank love affair with the Japs and Koreans runs out, they will up sticks fast. then we will see.
If you are smart you will keep the Chinese out.


They might, but if they hang around a few more years, I'm sure they'll see the UAW suck the American car companies dry as all the baby boomers retire.

As far as the Chinese go, since they basically own us to the tune of about 35 thou per citizen, it may be easier said than done if they come knockin' on the door with the bill demanding full payment. But their cars do suck!!! I don't think you have to worry about anyone buying those mopeds with cages that they build.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 140
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 10/15/2011 10:11:32 AM

... it's a sad thing to see that there are people in power that sell their souls to these corporations. It's even more upsetting to see that they can generate an even bigger influence on their constituents.

Looks like the rumors of a New World Order are no longer grapevine talk...


http://theweek.com/article/index/206405/the-billionaire-koch-brothers-tea-party-puppetmasters
Tea Party Nation?

The billionaire Koch brothers: Tea Party puppet masters?
The New Yorker makes a case that a pair of wealthy brothers is the force behind the Tea Party movement. Here, 5 key assertions from a new article
posted on August 24, 2010, at 3:45 PM
Are the Koch brothers the financial backbone of the Tea Party movement?

The New Yorker's Jane Mayer has investigated the political funding networks of Charles and David Koch, two of the wealthiest people in America and generous donors to conservative political causes. In her 6,000-word story, Mayer makes a case that the billionaire brothers have funded and fostered the Tea Party movement as a well-disguised means to pursue their private political agenda. The brothers vehemently deny the claim, and Mayer's story has been written off by conservative bloggers as a "coordinated character assassination." Here are some of the key assertions in the article:

The family has a complicated relationship with communism
The family business, Koch Industries, was built up by the brothers' father, Fred, an "arch-conservative" and member of the staunchly anti-communist (some might say "paranoid") John Birch Society. But, ironically enough, the firm's financial success was built on the back of work done in collaboration with the Soviet government under Stalin in the 1930s, according to Mayer. By the 1950s and '60s, Fred Koch was raising the alarm about communists infiltrating U.S. society and government. In addition to a vast fortune, says Mayer, the Koch boys also inherited their father's "distrust of the U.S. government."

They funded a proto–Tea Party movement
The brothers' first step into the political arena came in 1980, when they were the key backers of Libertarian Party candidate Ed Clark's run for president, a campaign that "presaged the Tea Party movement." David Koch even became Clark's vice presidential nominee — though this, says Mayer, was mainly to overcome the legal limits on campaign donations. Despite the fact that David "spent more than $2 million on the effort," the ticket received just 1 percent of the vote in the election that made Ronald Reagan president.

The Kochs promote global warming skepticism
During the 1980s and '90s, the brothers spent more than $100 million creating the "Kochtopus" — a term coined by critics to describe their "network" of ideologically motived organizations. In 2008, Mayer reveals, the three main Koch family foundations gave money to 34 political and policy organizations, many of which promote a skeptical view of global warming. The Kochs, for instance, funded the launch of the libertarian Cato Institute, which has been a fierce opponent of environmental reform. They also have given large sums to the Heritage Foundation and the Independent Women's Foundation, both doubters on the question of man-made climate change.

They are 'waging a war against Obama'
In 2004, David Koch helped found conservative advocacy group Americans for Prosperity, which Mayer says has been "instrumental in disrupting the Obama presidency." The Kochs' involvement, she writes, has been "intense"; one source even says it is "micromanaged" by the brothers — a charge they deny. "By giving money to 'educate,' fund, and organize Tea Party protesters, [the Kochs] have helped turn their private agenda into a mass movement," says Mayer. FrumForum's Tim Mak, a conservative, treats this with skepticism. "Try telling a [Tea Party] activist that they're an agent of the Koch family!" he says. "The Tea Party just can't be seriously controlled, only educated."

Are there Koch-funded political messages in the Smithsonian?
David Koch has become a top donor to the arts and sciences in recent years, particularly in his home city of New York. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, Lincoln Center, and the Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History have all benefited from his largesse. Mayer suggests that those donations might influence the recipient institutions, noting that — much to the frustration of some climate scientists — global warming exhibits in the Smithsonian's David H. Koch Hall of Human Origins "uncannily echo the Koch message." The museum dismisses these charges.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 141
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 11/9/2011 6:23:04 PM
It's the day after election day and here in Ohio the anti unionSB# 5 has went down in a lopsided defeat. The final count was 63 to 37 against this legislative piece of garbage.

After the vote count, Gov. Kasich said the people have spoken and he'll need to learn to listen to them. This vote sent these tea party folks a message. You try to eradicate workers rights and you're going to have a fight on your hands. My hope is that what happened here in Ohio can carry on to other states.

I am Union and I had a part in the defeat of this Bill. It makes me proud to know that when people unite for a cause it can be accomplished. I hope the Tea Party takes notice of this on a nationwide scope.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 142
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 11/10/2011 4:05:15 AM
Yep, pat yourself on the back for a job well done. State & local Government will remain the perfect model of inefficiency it has been for years. Teachers, firefighters and police that should be fired will continue to do substandard jobs, the ones who should go further will languish because of it.

I would be upset, but it looks like my non-union employers are moving me out of this state early next year, so I didn't even waste time to vote on it. Not that it would have mattered anyway, the mobsters won and the 90% of non-union workers got snowed by their bullsh*t. I hope they don't cry too much when the government is bankrupt.

By the way, did you notice the number of school levy defeats statewide? There is already talk of laying off teachers in droves. Do you think the unions are going to be able to save their jobs?
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 143
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 11/10/2011 1:41:07 PM
Ready, Issue 2 was'nt about wages at all. At least to Union people it was'nt. It was about POWER....

Do you consider yourself a Tea party member? Or sympathizer? Did you ever ask yourself why they appeal to you? ..... Do you understand that the Tea Party was organized by some of the richest people in America? This is'nt a bad thing, but these people are buying our government wholesale. The politicians they pay to get elected are trying to ram anti-union legislation through the states. They want to divide the lower and middle classes of this country.Whether or not you are union is irrelevant. What is relevant is that UNIONS and people like the OWS are the last barrier standing between the ultra rich and them owning our government. Once that happens there'll be no one left to stand up to them.

The real power in this country lies in your vote. One vote for the right issue is a start. Many votes together can start a change, and send a message.
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
Msg: 144
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 11/11/2011 4:59:08 AM

Issue 2 was'nt about wages at all. At least to Union people it was'nt. It was about POWER....


I agree with that statement wholeheartedly. But that power that can create a lot of job loss.

As I stated before, private employees who belong to unions, I have no beef with. As long as my tax dollars aren't bailing them out.

As far as government employeees and the public workers go (I am including school, fire, police, etc, etc), those on the union side see it as a loss of power, a loss of being able to make demands and if they can't get it, using obstruction to obtain it, no matter the cost to taxpayers. The people against see it as a loss of being able to say "Okay, enough is enough." The union doesn't care if it bankrupts the state, county or local government, as long as they get what they want, which is dues in their pockets every week. They don't care if their members are substandard and non-performing.

And most telliing, these unions, supposedly there for the worker, will sacrifice those workers, even hundreds of them, to hold on to that power. Because they contribute to the downfall of many of the companies they organize. GM, need I say more? And before you attack that statement, I didn't say they were the sole cause, but in previous posts I've shown examples of their, let's say, helping GM along.


Do you consider yourself a Tea party member? Or sympathizer?


I think you are going to find the answer to these questions shocking. No and no, with qualifications. I agree with them trying to reign in government, but also see that some have ulterior motives, just like unions (which I believe you fail to see). I don't believe in PETA's antics, but I think at the root, they have good intentions. Irrelevant, I know, but just thought I'd throw that in to make a point.


Do you understand that the Tea Party was organized by some of the richest people in America? This is'nt a bad thing, but these people are buying our government wholesale. The politicians they pay to get elected are trying to ram anti-union legislation through the states.


Just as I believe the union leaders are doing. The head honchos are also some of the richest people in America, and will also stoop to underhanded tactics to get what they want. And our current president, anyone except the blind among us see, is in the palm of their hand. His supposed "jobs bill" (as well as his past "jobs bill"s) panders to them relentlessly.


What is relevant is that UNIONS and people like the OWS are the last barrier standing between the ultra rich and them owning our government. Once that happens there'll be no one left to stand up to them.


Baloney. The OWS is a joke. Until they decide what they stand for and the means to go after it, I have no time for them. Camping out in a park smoking dope is college sh*t.

Unions have outlived their usefulness, and serve no purpose to anyone other than those they collect money from (untl they effectively cause their unemployment). I've shown that non-union auto makers don't (want or) need them, I've worked in plenty of businesses that have union counterparts, and done just as well or better. And too many companies these days, when they hear rumors of organization, just pull up and move the company overseas or dissolve it altogether. Is that really helping anybody? Regardless of wheather the act of doing so is wrong or right?

Unions can't save jobs anymore. Ask about 15,000 GM employees in my neck of the woods. Ask about 300 city government employees who lost their jobs in this state last year. Ask those teachers whose necks are now on the line.

If you think a disorganized crew like OWS, or downward spiraling unions (less than 10% of the workers and shrinking yearly) are the answers to a big problem, take a step back and reassess the situation. The unions aren't standing up to goverment, they are trying to buy them as quick and fast as the tea party bigwhigs. The OWS will desolve in a day if they are thrown a bone. I find it hard to take a group seriously that says they are so oppressed, but yet seem to find money to spend on weed, which I hear is quite expensive these days.

I agree this country is in a mess right now, but if you want to send a message, find a group that has membership of more than 1% of that 99% that are supposedly so downtrodden. There are ways to show those mean old rich people you aren't going to take it anymore. But these ways aren't acheiving the desired results . The rich at this point are literally laughing about it. Until EVERY Wal Mart and McDonalds worker (or at least more than 1% of them) decides to go to their place of employment, stand in the parking lot and scream about the inequalities, nobody hears them. Nobody cares.
 timetogo3223
Joined: 9/29/2011
Msg: 145
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 11/11/2011 3:27:38 PM
I find it interesting that this entire thread has run under the title it has.

How about a tread that is entitled, "Butt **cking Occupiers Packing them in like Fudge, or just a Bunch of Runny Schist?"

Bet that one wouldn't last 5 minutes. Says something about the objectivity here.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 146
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 11/11/2011 4:50:29 PM
The thread was started back when this movement were calling themselves Teabaggers. I understand that you'd like to go back and rewrite history "1984" style (as clearly demonstrated by your many posts), but the truth has a nasty way of biting you in the asp.
 timetogo3223
Joined: 9/29/2011
Msg: 147
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 11/11/2011 8:00:23 PM
halfminded....



The thread was started back when this movement were calling themselves Teabaggers. I understand that you'd like to go back and rewrite history "1984" style (as clearly demonstrated by your many posts), but the truth has a nasty way of biting you in the asp.


Really does not matter, consider the real meaning of the term. There is no official references within the Tea Party of referring to itself that way. Sorry.

You understand that I like to rewrite history? Tell me. From whom do you understand this? I like to report on history. You of the numb brains like to interpret it in any which way you can.

I am right in saying that any reference to the Occupy Drum Bangers as BooFoo'ers would be removed from this server, no matter if they self-identified as such.

"1984" is a good book, written by a committed socialist. Of course, Orwell was shouting a warning, one that you apparently do not get, as your constant defense of socialism (legalized theft from neighbor) shows.
 timetogo3223
Joined: 9/29/2011
Msg: 148
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 11/11/2011 8:02:10 PM
Sorry, I meant "halfdad", not "halfminded".
 notnomadic
Joined: 10/25/2011
Msg: 149
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Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 11/12/2011 10:14:37 PM

"1984" is a good book, written by a committed socialist. Of course, Orwell was shouting a warning, one that you apparently do not get, as your constant defense of socialism (legalized theft from neighbor) shows.


This makes no sense. You can't have Orwell BOTH as a "committed socialist" AND as "shouting a warning" about socialism with the book 1984. What do you mean?

As it happens, Orwell was a committed opponent to totalitarianism (a political system), which is not the same thing as socialism (an economic system). So.....your point?
 timetogo3223
Joined: 9/29/2011
Msg: 150
Teabagger's - a grassroots movement or just more astroturf ?
Posted: 11/15/2011 2:43:31 PM
not...



This makes no sense. You can't have Orwell BOTH as a "committed socialist" AND as "shouting a warning" about socialism with the book 1984. What do you mean?

As it happens, Orwell was a committed opponent to totalitarianism (a political system), which is not the same thing as socialism (an economic system). So.....your point?


Before I get to my "point"... can I mention that it seems like so many of the liberal/progressive posters are really angry, and I honestly do no know why. Things in this country (US) are going swimmingly. You have a socialist in office and he is remaking the country the way he -- and I guess-- you all want. Yet when some poor conservative tries to make a point, it is met with anger and hostility and name calling. I thought you all believe in King -- Rodney, that is, about "getting along".

Now, to the point: yes you can have a committed socialist who was broadcasting a warning about where socialism can go, which by its nature is away from freedom and liberty, as power is given to the state and rights are derived from the same. This is just the same as there are those committed capitalists who decry the excesses of capitalism.
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