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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?      Home login  
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 kailania
Joined: 4/10/2008
Msg: 26
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?Page 2 of 2    (1, 2)
good post.
I guess no one owes anyone the truth.
but live up to your code of honor and choose someone else who comes close to yours.
what about if someone promises to tell you the truth about something important..
and then...you wait..
they dont tell you.
you ask over again.
they ignore you.
I hate to make assumptions..but I am seeing the ignoring to answer as that the truth is an answer he doesnt want me to know. to I can now assume the answer.
but I dont want to assume anything.
so there are other ways I can try to get to the truth...
how far should one go?
another reason for not getting an answer could be from his passive aggressive behavior...he now hold this power over me by not telling me what he promised to tell me.
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 27
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 3/7/2012 10:16:04 PM
In that case he too is a manipulator,
and that alone makes him unworthy of devotion.
Although many people are driven to bizarre action by the scars of their past.........

IMO
Relationship (or even love) is about building up and repairing the breaches in confidence in that consociation , if power is held over anyone in the alliance than it rapidly changes from caring to coercion.
 kailania
Joined: 4/10/2008
Msg: 28
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 3/7/2012 10:59:49 PM
red fir..
how far could a person go, ethically, to find the truth.
as long as they have given the other person a long enough time to speak up.
as in..
asking his family,
freinds,..
which would anger him.
but , its important for me to know on a medical issue.
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 29
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 3/8/2012 12:46:30 AM
I suppose that how much we OWE the truth to each other depends on one's ethical values... and they are in no way uniform across our culture. Ultimately, it comes down to a courtesy we grant each other in so far as it helps us get along cooperatively.

Whereas honesty may be the best policy, the effect is to live a life where one has no reason to be deceitful.

As to revealing the truth, I suppose how we reveal it is just as important as what we may reveal... speaking the truth in love, so to speak.

I suppose if revealing the truth would cause the person undue harm, one may be justified in avoiding it.

The classic thought experiment... you are harboring refuge Jews in your attic when the Nazis come to your door and ask if you know where any Jews are hiding. What is the ethical thing to do?

OP... could you share with us a scenario (hypothetical or otherwise) where telling the truth would come into question?
 wildandfreee
Joined: 12/16/2010
Msg: 30
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 3/8/2012 4:13:34 AM
I think when both has an agreement on something
 13karat
Joined: 2/29/2012
Msg: 31
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 3/8/2012 4:59:57 AM
Good thread OP. Truth is quite a subjective term... and the interpretation of it changes depending on the circumstances.

For example - I once held a job where I had a Top Secret security classification... and the stuff that passed over my desk is only now becoming public knowledge. Do I think most people could have handled the truth of my job? Not a chance - I had nightmares and health issues for six months after I left that position... and that was why I left.

Another example - I have a friend who is very psychic. I don't wish to get into the debate on that, just suffice it to say she has been proven correct many times. She often "knows" when a person is approaching death.... usually a person close to a friend of hers, etc. So while she doesn't know the person who is dying she knows their loved one. Does she tell the loved one? Could they handle knowing? Most folks don't believe in psychics enough to believe her.... so what is she supposed to do?

What about a relationship? I know I don't want my partner lying to me under any circumstances.... and yes, even if he is cheating on me. Because, if he is cheating on me, or thinking on it, then I need to know why. What can we do to fix what is wrong in our relationship? If he does not like something I have done, yes, I wish to know.... because it may be something significant to him, and insignificant to me.... why not change it then?

So while many folks may see truth as something that is black and white.... I cannot agree with that viewpoint. .... and besides, everyone lies to some extent.
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 32
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 3/8/2012 5:58:18 AM
Your right to know is never abridged by some one else's privacy.
It just has the potential for unforeseen consequences.

You must pursue your right to know to YOUR satisfaction, if possible you need to satisfy your self BEFORE any commitments are made.

Without faith it may be impossible to please God, but every human is fallible, a demand for perfect unquestioning faith from another is a sure sign of a control freak.
Balance must be found though because the need to be constantly reassured is just as wearing.
Naturally, ignoring red flags is an unwise path to disaster.

Thats why early commitment is just nonsense, the reason for courtship is to discover the quality's you each possess. The net wisdom that anyone is "owed" anything by the first third or thousandth date is foolish. You need to court long enough to see firsthand the quality of people in stressful situations, and to get people OFF their best behavior and down to the real them.
If you don't like what you find, start fresh, to make commitments to an unworthy person is just cruel (and self destructive).

Your self is a valuable commodity like every other commodity if priced too high no one will invest, if priced too low no one will value you.

As for me I trust a proven person implicitly without reservation of any kind........but my proof standards are very high.
Foremost qualities I seek are tirelessness, patience, grace under pressure, and faithfulness, in every exacting standard of the word.
 swamp_dude
Joined: 7/23/2007
Msg: 33
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 3/8/2012 9:42:39 AM
the truth is actually very subjective and my truth may not be your truth

Physics and Math try to give us universal truths but at times they are fuzzy

The only person who deservers the whole truth to the best of your ability is you.
 kailania
Joined: 4/10/2008
Msg: 34
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 3/8/2012 10:41:24 AM
what about withholding medical truth that if the person discloses as they once promised they would..
could help you and your doctors deceide on your treatment.
and then the person wont tell you.
it leaves you less choices with knowing what to do medically.
how far can one go ethically to find out the truth....of his medical condition.
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 35
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 3/8/2012 1:31:40 PM
For the preservation of those you are responsible for, there is no limit. IMO
For the preservation of yourself as far as your conscience dictates.

As I said before your RIGHT to know is in no way limited by another's right to privacy.
But their right to not communicate is not abridged by your need to know.

But........ (off the cuff and between me and the fencepost,) to withhold such info seems selfish and foolish and I would probably pursue my options.
Preserving the dignity/rights of a promise breaker seems like a secondary goal.
 kailania
Joined: 4/10/2008
Msg: 36
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 3/8/2012 5:00:28 PM
I think I got my answer. I just hope it was a truthful answer.
good post above red fir
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