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Show ALL Forums  > Ontario  > Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 26
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Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?Page 2 of 2    (1, 2)

Then shut the cesspool on your face ! Who the hell gave you the right to bash the Canadian Forces ? If the two of you want a piece of me, I'll happily settle our differences on the Paintball field, any bloody time. I guarentee you'll never say another negative thing about the Forces in general, because you'll be saying ouch for a bloody week !!!!
Alrighty then! That kinda mentality makes one wonder when the paintball gun will be retired for the real thing and just a matter of time before "someone" .. ..goes *"postal" on everyone's azzz...
*Notice how I didn't say goes "Military" ..
 Dr. Gazebo
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 27
Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/14/2010 1:54:04 PM
Then shut the cesspool on your face ! Who the hell gave you the right to bash the Canadian Forces ? If the two of you want a piece of me, I'll happily settle our differences

That, unfortunately, is the kind of thing I am talking about. You served 3 years in the military and didnt learn how to keep your cool? Thats not your fault. I would think a sophisticated forces would produce calm, clear headed professionals. Instead, more and more I get the impression the military is training young men and women to rage under fire. This isnt the way of the Samurai.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 28
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Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/14/2010 2:01:04 PM
^^^ So, how do you explain those that react in the same manner in these threads.. WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THE MILITARY.. ???? You're being illogical in an effort to make your point. *thumbs down*
Sorry.. You haven't convinced me that the military is breeding nutbars.. More along the lines that SOME nutbars tend to join the military.
 Moonchild51
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 29
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Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/14/2010 2:01:38 PM
Gazebo? There YOU go AGAIN! Freaking generalizing one group! My bro isn't like that. Never was an never will be. A gentle giant of a man with patience galore for his autistic Son. Again, you let one or two speak for the vast majority which in my mind is simply ignorant. God how I dislike narrow minds!
 quiet guy67
Joined: 7/21/2006
Msg: 30
Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/14/2010 2:02:41 PM
Gazebo - you continue to dig yourself into your anti-military hole.

No comments about the U of T? They've produced two psycho killers and the CF has only produced one. It seems to me that the U of T is the breeding ground for nutbars.

You keep making generalizations about the CF based on extremely small sample sizes. Do you realize that there are about 90,000 people serving in the Regular and Reserve force at any one time? You need take a basic statistics course.
 Dr. Gazebo
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 31
Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/18/2010 12:07:58 AM
"The Canadian military commander charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of two women near the eastern Ontario military base he oversaw has retained a top defence lawyer from Ottawa. "

He is not even owning it. He is now going to fight it? This only reinforces my point.

Just because a few of you disagree with me doesnt mean you are correct. And so what if I have an anti military bias? I have a good attitude toward the American forces, but honestly, I dont have good feelings about our forces. Please debate this in a civilized way. I am not attacking you am I?

It is entirely possible that our military is run poorly by incompetent commanders who produce incompetant troops. Yes, that is my contention. This incident is just the tip of an iceberg which will unravel, I believe, to reveal that our forces are ineffectual and poorly managed.

Rain

The TOS for POF clearly states you CANNOT personally attack a poster. Reported. Play fair. Just because you disagree with me doesnt give you the right to be insulting and hurtful. I am going to follow this up with the moderators.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 32
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Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/18/2010 5:35:37 AM
Many of the views on here surprise me... I would think that people with close ties to the military here in Canada would be even more upset at this man's actions than those that have an arm's length relationship.

I still believe that the uniform is a symbol of respect that this man has tainted. I do not believe that the military bred him to be the alleged murder that he's being touted to be in the press (politically correctness as my personal view is that the man is guilty).

At the end of the day, I recognize that this could happen in any field of work, it's just a little more media sensational that it was a decorated and trusted military officer. Truly shameful imo...
 Breaker_one_nine
Joined: 4/26/2006
Msg: 33
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Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/18/2010 5:47:42 AM

"The Canadian military commander charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of two women near the eastern Ontario military base he oversaw has retained a top defence lawyer from Ottawa. "

He is not even owning it. He is now going to fight it? This only reinforces my point.


From one who has appointed himself as judge, jury and executioner.
 quiet guy67
Joined: 7/21/2006
Msg: 34
Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/18/2010 5:48:19 AM
Gazebo - everyone needs a lawyer; even if the person is going to plead guilty. I don't think Williams is going to fight the charge. If the news articles are correct, he told investigators where the bodies were located. Not exactly the actions of a person who intends to plead not guilty.

What does "He is not even owning it." mean?

Why are you supportive of the American military but not the Canadian? There have been a number of regrettable incidents involving the US military over the years. Again, it's very small numbers compared to the whole picture.

What is your proof that "our military is run poorly by incompetent commanders who produce incompetant troops"? You really need to do some reading on a topic before you post and show your lack of knowledge. The Canadian military is highly regarded by other militaries and governments throughout the world.

One incident does not prove a trend. You keep making sweeping statements based on one incident. You ask us to debate this in a civil way but you aren't even debating. How about providing some proof for your statements?

You've never answered my contention that the U of T has some been producing psychos.
 CLJStyles
Joined: 12/7/2009
Msg: 35
Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/18/2010 7:08:30 AM
See, it's people such as Paul W who are the particular problem. He displays nothing but anger without rhyme or reason. He blatantly disagrees with everyone who doesn't support his side with name calling and empty (not to mention idiotic) paintball threats (to Gazebo and I) , and then has the audacity to complain and insult others who happen to not only support his point but supposedly does that same thing that he is currently doing (Rain).

Insulting others with highschool d!ck (don't know if it's censored or not) for pointing out others "problems" while pointing out other people's "problems" seems highly hypocritical to me. "If the two of you want a piece of me, I'll happily settle our differences on the Paintball field". Who talks like this? He might not be the LAST person I'd want to serve in our military, but he is not someone who I want trying to rationally handle a weapon.

And I agree with FunGirlWanted, in that we do have a right to voice our opinions. Not only on the basic level of "this is our tax dollars at work" but because of family history. My grandfather died because of shrapnel to the skull in the Second World War. And honestly, I have no clue why he joined, whether it was simply because he wanted to serve his country or something else. Only those who join truly know why.

And to the regards as to whether or not I or anyone else voicing their opinions have served, is irrelevant. It's our opinions based on experience and education (for the most part). In high school I knew three guys who joined: one I didn't really know, one was going 'cause he needed the money. And the other, "because I want to be able to shoot a gun". Now this isn't to say he'd be going on a rampage, but this is clearly not a case of wanting to serve your country. Based on my experiences with the people who wants to join of my age, 1 in 3 want to because it would be fun.

And finally, yes, it is wrong to brand the entire military as nutcases because of a few bad apples in the basket. However if you look at it statistically, it is undeniable that it has higher rates of mental instability than pretty much any other job in the world. Whether you want to count antisocial behaviour, or actual outlashes of violence, compared to anything else the rates are incredibly high. Just think about where you work right now, how many of your fellow employees have committed some of the crimes the military has (theft, rape, torture, murder)?

So the issue isn't just a few bad apples in the basket, it's when it has more bad apples in the basket than any other. Because then it's a case of something fundamentally wrong with the basket itself.

*Breathe*
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 36
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Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/18/2010 7:22:17 AM

However if you look at it statistically, it is undeniable that it has higher rates of mental instability than pretty much any other job in the world. Whether you want to count antisocial behaviour, or actual outlashes of violence, compared to anything else the rates are incredibly high. Just think about where you work right now, how many of your fellow employees have committed some of the crimes the military has (theft, rape, torture, murder)?
You used the word statistically. Please back up your claim with citations towards studies of this in comparison to other jobs in the world.

Thank you in advance for providing the information to substantiate your claims.
 CLJStyles
Joined: 12/7/2009
Msg: 37
Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/18/2010 8:00:42 AM
These are various articles discussing such things as bipolar disorder, addiction, depression, suicide and other mental disorders. Some discuss various aspects, such as people coming into the military with previous conditions (as I mentioned) and those suffering from them because of their time served WHILE remaining in active duty. Please make sure you read everything thoroughly including links and sources, after all I'm not here to give anyone an education.

Happy reading.


http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2006/07/10/more-on-the-military-and-antosocial-personality-disorder/

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/Americas/March-April-08/New-Data-Shows-Alarming-Rates-of-Military-Mental-Health-Problems.html#1

http://manyeyes.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/visualizations/prevalence-of-mental-disorders-and-p-2

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/weekinreview/09carey.html

http://www.jstor.org/pss/40062640

http://www.mooddisorderscanada.ca/documents/Publications/Canadian%20Forces%20Supplement%20on%20Mental%20Health.pdf

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16330374

http://www.jsad.com/jsad/article/The_Prevalence_of_Antisocial_Behavior_among_US_Army_DWI_Offenders_/1719.html

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/165618.php

http://www.mirecc.va.gov/visn1/brief/brief_mental_health.asp

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/us/08stress.html?_r=1

http://muslimvoices.org/attack-fort-hood-mental-illness-military/

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=45215

http://www.everydayhealth.com/depression/webcasts/unsafe-to-disclose-mental-illness-in-the-military.aspx

http://www.elementsbehavioralhealth.com/behavioral-health-news/depression-substance-abuse-and-mental-illness-in-the-military/

And finally: http://img.printfection.com/14/41189/3zxVr.jpg
 Moonchild51
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 38
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Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/18/2010 8:04:43 AM
I do believe that Paul W., when he was here, did in fact indicate that he was pensioned as he suffers from PTSD. That was more than evident in his participation in the forums. A shame really.

Miss Lint? Yes, it does bother me that this has all come about, not for just the victims and the families of the victims, but for all of those hard working, sacrificing individuals in the CAF. It has been mentioned here that our forces are severely lacking when compared to the U.S. of A. Could that be correct? Possibly. I am no expert on that fact nor am I privy to that information. All I know is that these folks are out there, doing the best they can with what they have. Others are in fact allowed their opinions but I stand FIRM in my respect for the forces and those in them.
 hubcap1962
Joined: 10/21/2004
Msg: 39
Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/18/2010 8:57:59 AM
Here here Moonchild!!! well printed.
After reading most of the posts...it does seem like POF has been a breeding ground for nutbars..the OP especially. IMHO
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 40
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Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/18/2010 9:14:30 AM
The first link simply states that the army discharged over one thousand people for personality disorders - they do not state how many were tested, at which stage of the person's career or how many people were in the testing pool. This falls short of substantiating your claim.

The second link is based on the American Military - I didn't read further. Again, this falls short of substantiating your claim.

The third link... and unless this has relevant information will be the last one I review, states... well, I couldn't get to it as it requires some kind of log in.

I was thinking when you posted all the links that you would make a good lawyer, but with the garbage that you've posted, you'd be thrown out of any court in this country for wasting the time of the court. A single, reputable and verifiable link to subtantiate your claim is what you should have placed in... not the results of your websearch without even verifying the validity of the URLs.

As for educating anyone... you failed.



Others are in fact allowed their opinions but I stand FIRM in my respect for the forces and those in them.
Absolutely!

My two brothers-in-law had begun their careers in the Canadian Military. Both fantastic family men that by anyone's standards are kind, gentle and show strength of character that is unsurpassed. They are the epitomy of our military... men with strong morals and strong ideals that stand to protect us and the world against oppression. I'll stand firm with you in my respect for the forces and those in them... after all, it's out military that formed those young men and more notably rt L.Gen Roméo Dallaire.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 41
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Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/18/2010 9:53:56 AM
Althought I agree that his acts (if he has confessed *I haven't read that) are truly shameful, much more than that actually. It doesn't explain Why Op insists that this reflects on the Canadian Military as a whole? IMO (and many others in this thread) It makes little sense to do so.

Sociopaths are brilliant at appearing "normal" in ever walk of life. Cripes.. check out the "Have you ever married or been involved with Narccisstic/sociopath" *not exact title?* It's pages and pages long about how they were deceived into thinking how wonderful these miss-fired pistons are and continued to appear so when out in the company of others despite their abusive behaviour in private.

I still say it's not the military that's breeding nutbars.. it's that SOME (many?) nutbars join the army. Lets face it. The military breeds some lost or, soon to be lost young men and women into being fine, upstanding and educated citizens. You can look at it either in the negative or, the positive.

That being said; I also think that once a young man or woman has seen active, hostile duty. They never really are the same person again. Some cope better than others, but still they're changed.
 KnopfAProblem
Joined: 12/28/2009
Msg: 42
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Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 2/28/2010 1:33:47 PM
Why in the world would the actions of a single man, who hasn't been *convicted* (innocent until proven otherwise?) be a reflection upon anything other than himself?

Serial killers operate and succeed by blending in and not being noticed. Ted Bundy was in law school when he began his murders; I suppose by your reasoning, Lawyers breed murders and sexual sadists. (In b4 lawyer joke...)

The military is just as any other profession; do not defame people simply because they *chose* this career.

Also, as for your comment on "woman hating" and whatnot; I'd like to point out that it wasn't the US military which kept the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy enacted (the upper ups in the military saw *no issue* with gay servicemen/women) but the elected officals of their own government.

Quit heaping blame on a very small and underfunded organization within our nation, and maybe eye your government and ask why women still get paid less then men in almost every profession (except... in the military!).
 jodie1985
Joined: 4/14/2006
Msg: 43
Is the Military a Breeding Ground for Nutbars?
Posted: 3/2/2010 7:23:19 PM
short form yes i believe its in thier water or something
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